Is everyone off of Morris' jock yet?

[88]

How come no one is comparing each QB's junior seasons? That seems relatively fair to me as they both had experience prior to their junior year and were both in the 2nd year of the system with their offensive coordinator.

Through 9 games in their Junior years:
Harris 132-245 54% completion 1646 yards 14 TD 11 INT 2 Rushing TD
Morris 192-339 56% completion 2384 yards 12 TD 7 INT 1 Rushing TD

There is not a huge difference but it appears that Morris is slightly better. Coupled with a stronger arm and more athleticism I would say he is the superior option.

I find it interesting because I remember in 2010 we were all ****ing about how much we threw the ball, but we are throwing the ball a ton more this year.

read back a bit. i already did the comparison of their junior seasons. remember that harris was knocked out in the middle of his 8th game, so a comparison of their first 7 games is a better assessment if you want to compare the progression through their junior years. they're pretty much even in all categories but yards, and that's because morris had a 1000 yards in 2 games (statistical anomaly to say the least).

i based my original comparison and criticism on starts because every morris apologist has been harping on his lack of starts as the reason for his inconsistency. bottom line is that he's started 14 games, is 9 games into his junior year, and is still subpar.

Sorry thought it was the 9th game he got knocked out. But let's not forget when Jacory came back from that injury his stats took a huge dive so assuming Morris doesn't melt down he will have had a better year statistically. If he can make a similar improvement Jacory made going into his senior year he could be really special next year.

While I agree Morris certainly hasn't been spectacular, he has been far from terrible. His accuracy is erratic at times and can be really frustrating to watch. Jacory lost several games almost completely by himself with binge turnovers. Morris hasn't had that propensity. Give me a QB who makes less big plays and less costly mistakes, then one who makes more big plays and more big mistakes.

all of my criticism of morris aside, i want him to do well. if he comes out and has the turnaround that jacory had his senior year, i will happily eat a big fat plate of crow. he has the physical tools, but what's worrisome is that he has regressed the way he has. after his big game against nc state, he passed for 201 against notre dame, 155 against unc, 223 against fsu, and 170 against virginia tech. that's 187.3 yards per game and had 3 TDs and 3 INTs in those 4 games. take away the garbage time drives against notre dame (57 yards) and florida state (73 yards and TD), and he's averaging 154 yards per game to go along with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. that's not cutting it.

What about if Dorsett holds on to the ball in some those games.

 

[dookie blaylock]

How come no one is comparing each QB's junior seasons? That seems relatively fair to me as they both had experience prior to their junior year and were both in the 2nd year of the system with their offensive coordinator.

Through 9 games in their Junior years:
Harris 132-245 54% completion 1646 yards 14 TD 11 INT 2 Rushing TD
Morris 192-339 56% completion 2384 yards 12 TD 7 INT 1 Rushing TD

There is not a huge difference but it appears that Morris is slightly better. Coupled with a stronger arm and more athleticism I would say he is the superior option.

I find it interesting because I remember in 2010 we were all ****ing about how much we threw the ball, but we are throwing the ball a ton more this year.

read back a bit. i already did the comparison of their junior seasons. remember that harris was knocked out in the middle of his 8th game, so a comparison of their first 7 games is a better assessment if you want to compare the progression through their junior years. they're pretty much even in all categories but yards, and that's because morris had a 1000 yards in 2 games (statistical anomaly to say the least).

i based my original comparison and criticism on starts because every morris apologist has been harping on his lack of starts as the reason for his inconsistency. bottom line is that he's started 14 games, is 9 games into his junior year, and is still subpar.

Sorry thought it was the 9th game he got knocked out. But let's not forget when Jacory came back from that injury his stats took a huge dive so assuming Morris doesn't melt down he will have had a better year statistically. If he can make a similar improvement Jacory made going into his senior year he could be really special next year.

While I agree Morris certainly hasn't been spectacular, he has been far from terrible. His accuracy is erratic at times and can be really frustrating to watch. Jacory lost several games almost completely by himself with binge turnovers. Morris hasn't had that propensity. Give me a QB who makes less big plays and less costly mistakes, then one who makes more big plays and more big mistakes.

all of my criticism of morris aside, i want him to do well. if he comes out and has the turnaround that jacory had his senior year, i will happily eat a big fat plate of crow. he has the physical tools, but what's worrisome is that he has regressed the way he has. after his big game against nc state, he passed for 201 against notre dame, 155 against unc, 223 against fsu, and 170 against virginia tech. that's 187.3 yards per game and had 3 TDs and 3 INTs in those 4 games. take away the garbage time drives against notre dame (57 yards) and florida state (73 yards and TD), and he's averaging 154 yards per game to go along with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. that's not cutting it.

What about if Dorsett holds on to the ball in some those games.

what about if dorsett drops the deep balls against nc state and georgia tech? what about if mike james can't turn a catch at the line of scrimmage into a touchdown? what about if logan thomas doesn't fumble the snap inside the 5 yard line? hypotheticals are irrelevant.

 

[Consigliere]

read back a bit. i already did the comparison of their junior seasons. remember that harris was knocked out in the middle of his 8th game, so a comparison of their first 7 games is a better assessment if you want to compare the progression through their junior years. they're pretty much even in all categories but yards, and that's because morris had a 1000 yards in 2 games (statistical anomaly to say the least).

i based my original comparison and criticism on starts because every morris apologist has been harping on his lack of starts as the reason for his inconsistency. bottom line is that he's started 14 games, is 9 games into his junior year, and is still subpar.

Sorry thought it was the 9th game he got knocked out. But let's not forget when Jacory came back from that injury his stats took a huge dive so assuming Morris doesn't melt down he will have had a better year statistically. If he can make a similar improvement Jacory made going into his senior year he could be really special next year.

While I agree Morris certainly hasn't been spectacular, he has been far from terrible. His accuracy is erratic at times and can be really frustrating to watch. Jacory lost several games almost completely by himself with binge turnovers. Morris hasn't had that propensity. Give me a QB who makes less big plays and less costly mistakes, then one who makes more big plays and more big mistakes.

all of my criticism of morris aside, i want him to do well. if he comes out and has the turnaround that jacory had his senior year, i will happily eat a big fat plate of crow. he has the physical tools, but what's worrisome is that he has regressed the way he has. after his big game against nc state, he passed for 201 against notre dame, 155 against unc, 223 against fsu, and 170 against virginia tech. that's 187.3 yards per game and had 3 TDs and 3 INTs in those 4 games. take away the garbage time drives against notre dame (57 yards) and florida state (73 yards and TD), and he's averaging 154 yards per game to go along with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. that's not cutting it.

What about if Dorsett holds on to the ball in some those games.

what about if dorsett drops the deep balls against nc state and georgia tech? what about if mike james can't turn a catch at the line of scrimmage into a touchdown? what about if logan thomas doesn't fumble the snap inside the 5 yard line? hypotheticals are irrelevant.

As is deciding what stats count and which don't. Hypothetical stats, really? What about if Georgia Tech and NC State drops balls. You can't take away hypothetical drops from our team and then keep everything the same on the other team. That isn't how it works man, maybe in DB305 world that is how it works.

So your hypotheticals are allowed but others are not. Cool. How about we just use the game how it is?

News flash, Harris sucks.

 

[dookie blaylock]

Sorry thought it was the 9th game he got knocked out. But let's not forget when Jacory came back from that injury his stats took a huge dive so assuming Morris doesn't melt down he will have had a better year statistically. If he can make a similar improvement Jacory made going into his senior year he could be really special next year.

While I agree Morris certainly hasn't been spectacular, he has been far from terrible. His accuracy is erratic at times and can be really frustrating to watch. Jacory lost several games almost completely by himself with binge turnovers. Morris hasn't had that propensity. Give me a QB who makes less big plays and less costly mistakes, then one who makes more big plays and more big mistakes.

all of my criticism of morris aside, i want him to do well. if he comes out and has the turnaround that jacory had his senior year, i will happily eat a big fat plate of crow. he has the physical tools, but what's worrisome is that he has regressed the way he has. after his big game against nc state, he passed for 201 against notre dame, 155 against unc, 223 against fsu, and 170 against virginia tech. that's 187.3 yards per game and had 3 TDs and 3 INTs in those 4 games. take away the garbage time drives against notre dame (57 yards) and florida state (73 yards and TD), and he's averaging 154 yards per game to go along with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. that's not cutting it.

What about if Dorsett holds on to the ball in some those games.

what about if dorsett drops the deep balls against nc state and georgia tech? what about if mike james can't turn a catch at the line of scrimmage into a touchdown? what about if logan thomas doesn't fumble the snap inside the 5 yard line? hypotheticals are irrelevant.

As is deciding what stats count and which don't. Hypothetical stats, really? What about if Georgia Tech and NC State drops balls. You can't take away hypothetical drops from our team and then keep everything the same on the other team. That isn't how it works man, maybe in DB305 world that is how it works.

So your hypotheticals are allowed but others are not. Cool. How about we just use the game how it is?

News flash, Harris sucks.

i'm not making hypotheticals to support an argument, the other guy is. i'm pointing out that hypotheticals are immaterial. that's what "irrelevant" means. that's why i use the stats as is and don't get into "what ifs" when talking about football. what happens on the field is what happens on the field. i brought up that list of things to amplify how meaningless bringing up hypotheticals are, which is why i don't factor them into any kind of analysis.

news flash, i never said harris was good. i just said he's better than morris.

 

[Consigliere]

all of my criticism of morris aside, i want him to do well. if he comes out and has the turnaround that jacory had his senior year, i will happily eat a big fat plate of crow. he has the physical tools, but what's worrisome is that he has regressed the way he has. after his big game against nc state, he passed for 201 against notre dame, 155 against unc, 223 against fsu, and 170 against virginia tech. that's 187.3 yards per game and had 3 TDs and 3 INTs in those 4 games. take away the garbage time drives against notre dame (57 yards) and florida state (73 yards and TD), and he's averaging 154 yards per game to go along with 2 TDs and 3 INTs. that's not cutting it.

What about if Dorsett holds on to the ball in some those games.

what about if dorsett drops the deep balls against nc state and georgia tech? what about if mike james can't turn a catch at the line of scrimmage into a touchdown? what about if logan thomas doesn't fumble the snap inside the 5 yard line? hypotheticals are irrelevant.

As is deciding what stats count and which don't. Hypothetical stats, really? What about if Georgia Tech and NC State drops balls. You can't take away hypothetical drops from our team and then keep everything the same on the other team. That isn't how it works man, maybe in DB305 world that is how it works.

So your hypotheticals are allowed but others are not. Cool. How about we just use the game how it is?

News flash, Harris sucks.

i'm not making hypotheticals to support an argument, the other guy is. i'm pointing out that hypotheticals are immaterial. that's what "irrelevant" means. that's why i use the stats as is and don't get into "what ifs" when talking about football. what happens on the field is what happens on the field. i brought up that list of things to amplify how meaningless bringing up hypotheticals are, which is why i don't factor them into any kind of analysis.

news flash, i never said harris was good. i just said he's better than morris.

Also the Harris v. Morris stuff.

Do you really think Harris is better than Morris?

 

[dookie blaylock]

What about if Dorsett holds on to the ball in some those games.

what about if dorsett drops the deep balls against nc state and georgia tech? what about if mike james can't turn a catch at the line of scrimmage into a touchdown? what about if logan thomas doesn't fumble the snap inside the 5 yard line? hypotheticals are irrelevant.

As is deciding what stats count and which don't. Hypothetical stats, really? What about if Georgia Tech and NC State drops balls. You can't take away hypothetical drops from our team and then keep everything the same on the other team. That isn't how it works man, maybe in DB305 world that is how it works.

So your hypotheticals are allowed but others are not. Cool. How about we just use the game how it is?

News flash, Harris sucks.

i'm not making hypotheticals to support an argument, the other guy is. i'm pointing out that hypotheticals are immaterial. that's what "irrelevant" means. that's why i use the stats as is and don't get into "what ifs" when talking about football. what happens on the field is what happens on the field. i brought up that list of things to amplify how meaningless bringing up hypotheticals are, which is why i don't factor them into any kind of analysis.

news flash, i never said harris was good. i just said he's better than morris.

Also the Harris v. Morris stuff.

Do you really think Harris is better than Morris?

nice work dodging the whole hypotheticals thing. you had a really good argument there until you realized that you don't understand context.

and yes. contrary to popular belief and blind homerism, harris has a better touchdown to interception ratio* (1.45 vs 1.05), completion percentage (60.1 vs 56.7), and winning percentage than morris (65% vs 57%).

*those stats include harris' multiple 3+ interception games and he still has a better td-int ratio.

 

[Consigliere]

what about if dorsett drops the deep balls against nc state and georgia tech? what about if mike james can't turn a catch at the line of scrimmage into a touchdown? what about if logan thomas doesn't fumble the snap inside the 5 yard line? hypotheticals are irrelevant.

As is deciding what stats count and which don't. Hypothetical stats, really? What about if Georgia Tech and NC State drops balls. You can't take away hypothetical drops from our team and then keep everything the same on the other team. That isn't how it works man, maybe in DB305 world that is how it works.

So your hypotheticals are allowed but others are not. Cool. How about we just use the game how it is?

News flash, Harris sucks.

i'm not making hypotheticals to support an argument, the other guy is. i'm pointing out that hypotheticals are immaterial. that's what "irrelevant" means. that's why i use the stats as is and don't get into "what ifs" when talking about football. what happens on the field is what happens on the field. i brought up that list of things to amplify how meaningless bringing up hypotheticals are, which is why i don't factor them into any kind of analysis.

news flash, i never said harris was good. i just said he's better than morris.

Also the Harris v. Morris stuff.

Do you really think Harris is better than Morris?

nice work dodging the whole hypotheticals thing.

and yes. contrary to popular belief and blind homerism, harris has a better touchdown to interception ratio (1.45 vs 1.05), completion percentage (60.1 vs 56.7), and winning percentage than morris.

Homerism and Bias? Really.

I think it is BS to calculate the whole career when Morris is still in his first starting season (albeit Junior year).

Let's not forget Morris's first year he was groomed to redshirt (behind Whipple) and was thrown into the action against UVA. Last year he started ONE game. This year he is the starter.

Why don't you come back to this stuff and compare their junior seasons after both completed them? Wouldn't that be fair? Because when you just focus on this year, (9 games v. 9 games Junior year) HARRIS is inferior.

 

[dookie blaylock]

As is deciding what stats count and which don't. Hypothetical stats, really? What about if Georgia Tech and NC State drops balls. You can't take away hypothetical drops from our team and then keep everything the same on the other team. That isn't how it works man, maybe in DB305 world that is how it works.

So your hypotheticals are allowed but others are not. Cool. How about we just use the game how it is?

News flash, Harris sucks.

i'm not making hypotheticals to support an argument, the other guy is. i'm pointing out that hypotheticals are immaterial. that's what "irrelevant" means. that's why i use the stats as is and don't get into "what ifs" when talking about football. what happens on the field is what happens on the field. i brought up that list of things to amplify how meaningless bringing up hypotheticals are, which is why i don't factor them into any kind of analysis.

news flash, i never said harris was good. i just said he's better than morris.

Also the Harris v. Morris stuff.

Do you really think Harris is better than Morris?

nice work dodging the whole hypotheticals thing.

and yes. contrary to popular belief and blind homerism, harris has a better touchdown to interception ratio (1.45 vs 1.05), completion percentage (60.1 vs 56.7), and winning percentage than morris.

Homerism and Bias? Really.

I think it is BS to calculate the whole career when Morris is still in his first starting season (albeit Junior year).

Let's not forget Morris's first year he was groomed to redshirt (behind Whipple) and was thrown into the action against UVA. Last year he started ONE game. This year he is the starter.

Why don't you come back to this stuff and compare their junior seasons after both completed them? Wouldn't that be fair? Because when you just focus on this year, (9 games v. 9 games Junior year) HARRIS is inferior.

it's an unfair comparison because jacory didn't play 4.5 games of his junior year. he played 7 and got knocked out early in the 8th. his stats could have made him look better or worse, but the fact is that he didn't play a full third of the year so it's not a fair comparison.

this is why i compared jacory and morris in 2 different ways: first 14 starts and first 7 games of their junior seasons. comparing first 14 starts, harris was clearly better and he had those as a freshman and sophomore, not as a junior.

first 7 games of their junior seasons, they were similar with morris having the edge in yards (outliers in the gt and nc state game). comparing first 7 games as juniors, there is no clear-cut winner.

the most objective analysis will have to wait until morris finishes his career.


but to entertain the morris' first starting season argument, here are the stats through the first 9 games of each player's first full starting season (Harris 2009 vs Morris 2012). here's the breakdown:

Harris, So., 2009: 62.4% - 259.5 ypg - 18 TDs - 12 INTs
Record: 7-2, wins over 4 ranked teams

Morris, Ju., 2012: 56.6% - 264.8 ypg - 12 TDs - 7 INTs
Record: 5-4, wins over 0 ranked teams

 

[dookie blaylock]

i've noticed that everyone arguing, with the exception of one poster, hasn't given a single statistic to back up any claims. anecdotal evidence doesn't mean sh*t unless you can back it up. your personal opinion doesn't mean sh*t unless you can back it up. i've given my opinions, and i've backed them with facts. they're out there for anyone to look up.

and for f*ck's sake, i am not saying that harris is a good quarterback. i'm saying that he's better than morris. dig through the thread to find the statistics because i've posted them everywhere.

 

[FreePawn]

news flash, i never said harris was good. i just said he's better than morris.

No, you said that at this point in his career, Harris was better across the board. Which he wasn´t, he was a turnover machine in his junior season, which you can´t claim of Morris. Apart from that, yes the stats are very similar, and yes, Morris is not playing very well. But he´s not gift wrapping the ball to other team all the time, that alone means that he is not worse "across the board".

 

[Consigliere]

i've noticed that everyone arguing, with the exception of one poster, hasn't given a single statistic to back up any claims. anecdotal evidence doesn't mean sh*t unless you can back it up. your personal opinion doesn't mean sh*t unless you can back it up. i've given my opinions, and i've backed them with facts. they're out there for anyone to look up.

and for f*ck's sake, i am not saying that harris is a good quarterback. i'm saying that he's better than morris. dig through the thread to find the statistics because i've posted them everywhere.

Like I said before you are making up your stats. I will not waste time doing that and fighting with you. Why don't you do averages instead of total numbers for junior year? Why don't you wait till the end of the season? Morris has better stats at this point in the year on an average basis too.

You mention homerism, maybe your just stubborn. Harris was a terrible QB that benefited from two things (1) Lack of Competition (thanks Marve and Shannon) and (2) the ability to play in a lot of games because of said competition.

Jacory Harris had no arm, no brain, no feel of the game and no heart. How many times did the guy throw 3+ interceptions?

Your "facts" are not facts you alter them to fit your argument. I say at the very least you give Morris the opportunity to finish his junior season prior to comparing.

 

[Consigliere]

news flash, i never said harris was good. i just said he's better than morris.

No, you said that at this point in his career, Harris was better across the board. Which he wasn´t, he was a turnover machine in his junior season, which you can´t claim of Morris. Apart from that, yes the stats are very similar, and yes, Morris is not playing very well. But he´s not gift wrapping the ball to other team all the time, that alone means that he is not worse "across the board".

I can't deal with Jacory Harris, he literally lost games over his career. He has thrown at least 3 interceptions in 5 games. He lost games.

Morris on the other hand has a better feel of the game and gives us the opportunity to throw the deep ball. I would never want Harris as the QB over Morris.

 

[dookie blaylock]

i've noticed that everyone arguing, with the exception of one poster, hasn't given a single statistic to back up any claims. anecdotal evidence doesn't mean sh*t unless you can back it up. your personal opinion doesn't mean sh*t unless you can back it up. i've given my opinions, and i've backed them with facts. they're out there for anyone to look up.

and for f*ck's sake, i am not saying that harris is a good quarterback. i'm saying that he's better than morris. dig through the thread to find the statistics because i've posted them everywhere.

Like I said before you are making up your stats. I will not waste time doing that and fighting with you. Why don't you do averages instead of total numbers for junior year? Why don't you wait till the end of the season? Morris has better stats at this point in the year on an average basis too.

You mention homerism, maybe your just stubborn. Harris was a terrible QB that benefited from two things (1) Lack of Competition (thanks Marve and Shannon) and (2) the ability to play in a lot of games because of said competition.

Jacory Harris had no arm, no brain, no feel of the game and no heart. How many times did the guy throw 3+ interceptions?

Your "facts" are not facts you alter them to fit your argument. I say at the very least you give Morris the opportunity to finish his junior season prior to comparing.

how am i making up stats? show me a single statistic that i've made up. go on espn or cfbstats or any other stat website and look at the numbers. it does take math, but i'm sure that even you can figure out how to average numbers (hint: if you want to find the average of 9 numbers, you add them all together and then divide by 9). all of the numbers i gave in the last post were averages:

stats through the first 9 games of each player's first full starting season (Harris 2009 vs Morris 2012). here's the breakdown:

Harris, So., 2009: 62.4% - 259.5 ypg - 18 TDs - 12 INTs
Record: 7-2, wins over 4 ranked teams

Morris, Ju., 2012: 56.6% - 264.8 ypg - 12 TDs - 7 INTs
Record: 5-4, wins over 0 ranked teams

those completion percentages are the season average through their 9th game. "ypg" = yards per game. you calculate that by adding up the yardage through those games and then dividing by (wait for it) 9!

is morris playing better in his junior year when comparing strictly junior years? depends on how you look at it. he has a better td to int ratio and yards, but when you factor in that that 1000 yards, 6 tds, and 2 ints came in 2 games, the luster wears off. those are called "outliers" because they completely skew the statistic.

that being said, i still kept those 2 games factored into my comparisons of first 14 starts AND first 7 games of their juniors seasons. those numbers show that morris is still worse after first 14 starts and marginally better (at best) in first 7 games. when you compare the first 9 games of their first years as "full starters" then harris still holds an edge over morris. is it fair to compare one guy playing through 12 full games vs another playing 7 full games? even if you add in the half games in against usf and uva, it's still comparing 12 games to 8 games. it's not a fair comparison.

how many times did he throw 3+ picks? 5 times: 2009 clemson and unc, 2010 notre dame and ohio state, 2011 boston college. all losses. 2009 harris had 17 total interceptions and 7 came in 2 games. 2010, including the bowl game he had 15 total and 7 came in 2 games. 2011 he had 9 total and 4 came in 1 game. did those mistakes cost us games? they did and i can admit that.

you conveniently forget to list how many times did he won us games:

2008 uva: 95 yard drive, TD with 26 seconds left to tie, TD in overtime to win

2009 fsu: 73 yard drive and TD pass to cut the lead, passed for 46 yards on the drive.
59 yard drive to take the lead, passed for 52 yards on the drive

2009 georgia tech: 33-17 win, 3 miami TD passes from harris, 1 team rushing TD

2009 oklahoma: 21-20 win, 3 TD passes from harris, 0 team rushing TDs

2009 wake forest: 82 yard drive and TD pass to take the lead, passed for 82 yards on the drive

2010 clemson: 30-21 win, 4 TD passes from harris, 0 team rushing TDs

2010 unc: 33-10 win, 3 TD passes from harris, 1 team rushing TDs

2011 unc: 30-24 win, 3 TD passes from harris, 0 team rushing TDs


again, show me statistics. show me numbers that prove that you're right. i'm not denying that harris wasn't turnover prone and didn't cost us some games because he did. but show me some stats. you responded to my complaint about a lack of stats and making inferences, by not backing up your argument with stats and making more inferences.

 

[Consigliere]

DB305,

I am not going to read your whole post, I will keep it simple for you.

Through 9 games PLAYED in their Junior years (I took each players totals for the first 9 games they played):
Harris 144-263 55% completion 1756 yards 14 TD 12 INT 2 Rushing TD
Morris 192-339 57% completion 2384 yards 12 TD 7 INT 1 Rushing TD

Like I said you're manipulating the stats to form your opinion. If you are comparing people you need to remove as many variables as possible to make them even. So let's compare Harris in his Junior year i.e. third season starting versus Morris in his junior year i.e. first year starting.

At the end of the season we will compare the averages in those games to make it is fair as possible to remove the differences between the amount of games played.

I really hope that if we make a bowl game, Morris has a better performance than Harris did against Notre Dame.

Can we move on for now?

 

[Consigliere]

you conveniently forget to list how many times did he won us games:

2008 uva: 95 yard drive, TD with 26 seconds left to tie, TD in overtime to win

2009 fsu: 73 yard drive and TD pass to cut the lead, passed for 46 yards on the drive.
59 yard drive to take the lead, passed for 52 yards on the drive

2009 georgia tech: 33-17 win, 3 miami TD passes from harris, 1 team rushing TD

2009 oklahoma: 21-20 win, 3 TD passes from harris, 0 team rushing TDs

2009 wake forest: 82 yard drive and TD pass to take the lead, passed for 82 yards on the drive

2010 clemson: 30-21 win, 4 TD passes from harris, 0 team rushing TDs

2010 unc: 33-10 win, 3 TD passes from harris, 1 team rushing TDs

2011 unc: 30-24 win, 3 TD passes from harris, 0 team rushing TDs


again, show me statistics. show me numbers that prove that you're right. i'm not denying that harris wasn't turnover prone and didn't cost us some games because he did. but show me some stats. you responded to my complaint about a lack of stats and making inferences, by not backing up your argument with stats and making more inferences.

I will give you FSU 2009, that was on Harris he was money that day. The rest not so much. Good performance, sure.

Here are 5 games we lost during his tenure.

2009 Clemson 3 INT

2009 UNC 4 INT

2010 OSU 4 INT

2010 ND (Bowl) 3 INT

2011 BC 4 INT

This is a team sport, we don't lose because of one player or win because of one player.

 

[hoops156]

jacorys junior year was his second season as a full time starter and also he stats r off bc throw out the nc state and gt game where it was clearly an anomaly compared to the rest of the season

 

[dookie blaylock]

DB305,

I am not going to read your whole post, I will keep it simple for you.

Through 9 games PLAYED in their Junior years (I took each players totals for the first 9 games they played):
Harris 144-263 55% completion 1756 yards 14 TD 12 INT 2 Rushing TD
Morris 192-339 57% completion 2384 yards 12 TD 7 INT 1 Rushing TD

Like I said you're manipulating the stats to form your opinion. If you are comparing people you need to remove as many variables as possible to make them even. So let's compare Harris in his Junior year i.e. third season starting versus Morris in his junior year i.e. first year starting.

At the end of the season we will compare the averages in those games to make it is fair as possible to remove the differences between the amount of games played.

I really hope that if we make a bowl game, Morris has a better performance than Harris did against Notre Dame.

Can we move on for now?

you're not reading it because you don't want to believe it. morris' yardage is far higher because he played a full 9 games to start his junior year minus the last drive against unc. jacory was KNOCKED OUT IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF HIS 8TH GAME. he came off the bench in the middle of the 3rd quarter against usf. so you're comparing 9 full games against 7 full games with fractions of 2 others. and somehow i'm the one manipulating stats. when you take an uneven sample size, it inflates the good and bad. that's how statistics work.

when comparing a 12 game season, having one player not play 1/4 of them and only a fraction of 2 other games absolutely destroys the integrity of that comparison. if jacory had been out for 1 or 2 games, that would be more understandable, but you can't compare their junior seasons as a whole with any objectivity because that's a terribly skewed study. if morris plays a full, healthy senior year, that is the only way that you can compare season-by-season.

 

[Consigliere]

you're not reading it because you don't want to believe it. morris' yardage is far higher because he played a full 9 games to start his junior year minus the last drive against unc. jacory was KNOCKED OUT IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF HIS 8TH GAME. he came off the bench in the middle of the 3rd quarter against usf. so you're comparing 9 full games against 7 full games with fractions of 2 others. and somehow i'm the one manipulating stats. when you take an uneven sample size, it inflates the good and bad. that's how statistics work.

when comparing a 12 game season, having one player not play 1/4 of them and only a fraction of 2 other games absolutely destroys the integrity of that comparison. if jacory had been out for 1 or 2 games, that would be more understandable, but you can't compare their junior seasons as a whole with any objectivity because that's a terribly skewed study. if morris plays a full, healthy senior year, that is the only way that you can compare season-by-season.

Here is the problem and it is the reason why I am not reading or taking you seriously.

You are unable to get on the same page to start the argument. Forget about the side your taking, you won't agree to a set of rules to argue by.

You complain that Harris was injured and missed games. I said fine, do the averages at the end of their junior season. For some reason this doesn't work with you. Averages, yes averages. Players get injured in football, Morris missed 2 drives against UNC and was hurt against FSU. He also was out the whole spring. **** happens.

At the end of the year we will do the averages of Harris and Morris in their junior season. At the end of their careers, you can then see who had a better tenure at UM.

 

[nope44]

Just because Morris has the potential to be a better QB doesn't mean he is. He has played like complete crap since NC State. Not even one good, complete quarter from him. At the end of the year, you will see that him and Jacory are a wash.

 

[dookie blaylock]

you're not reading it because you don't want to believe it. morris' yardage is far higher because he played a full 9 games to start his junior year minus the last drive against unc. jacory was KNOCKED OUT IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF HIS 8TH GAME. he came off the bench in the middle of the 3rd quarter against usf. so you're comparing 9 full games against 7 full games with fractions of 2 others. and somehow i'm the one manipulating stats. when you take an uneven sample size, it inflates the good and bad. that's how statistics work.

when comparing a 12 game season, having one player not play 1/4 of them and only a fraction of 2 other games absolutely destroys the integrity of that comparison. if jacory had been out for 1 or 2 games, that would be more understandable, but you can't compare their junior seasons as a whole with any objectivity because that's a terribly skewed study. if morris plays a full, healthy senior year, that is the only way that you can compare season-by-season.

Here is the problem and it is the reason why I am not reading or taking you seriously.

You are unable to get on the same page to start the argument. Forget about the side your taking, you won't agree to a set of rules to argue by.

You complain that Harris was injured and missed games. I said fine, do the averages at the end of their junior season. For some reason this doesn't work with you. Averages, yes averages. Players get injured in football, Morris missed 2 drives against UNC and was hurt against FSU. He also was out the whole spring. **** happens.

At the end of the year we will do the averages of Harris and Morris in their junior season. At the end of their careers, you can then see who had a better tenure at UM.

and what i am saying is that averages are heavily influenced by sample size. a comparison of a sample of 12 and a sample of 7/8 are far more drastic than comparing a sample of 12 against a sample of 10 or 11. 1 or 2 games is not a huge difference. but when one sample is 3/4 the size of the sample you're comparing it against, it's not a fair comparison.

here's an example of how that works. the averages of morris' first 6 games this year against his season average.

First 6 games: 58.7% - 306 ypg - 9 TD (1.5 TD/game) - 4 INT (.7 INT/game)

Season: 56.6% - 264.9 ypg - 12 TD (1.3 TD/game) - 7 INT (.8 INT/game)

The difference in 3 games passing drops his ypg by 40 yards. that's a significant difference from only 3 games. his completion percentage and td/game drops slightly while his int/game rises slightly. and that's what a larger sample size does. it brings numbers closer to true averages. so when you compare 12 games played for morris against 8 games for harris, it's already an imbalanced comparison.

i get what you're saying. your point is what did each player do in the games he was available in during his junior season, regardless of how many games were played. i just disagree on the objectivity of using that as a measure because if morris plays the rest of the season, he had 25% more opportunities to shift the stats for or against him.

i'll give you this: if morris tanks the rest of the season, i still won't compare junior year to junior year because of the sample size because those stats would have no integrity.