MEGA Frenk Out - Who Next?

[rsa coral gables]

The fact that you think Dr. Shalala is a hack is all I need to know about your lack of knowledge on this topic. I get it, you think anyone to the left of Goldwater is a pinko commie, but join us here in reality. The faculty of the University, like any institution of higher learning will lean to the left, just like you won't find many liberals working on Wall Street. That said, you have to work with those people, and a neocon isn't the kind of person that would be able to navigate those waters.

she is a hack. did you follow her when she went to bat numerous times for Clinton and Hilary after EVERYONE knew that Clinton had screwed half of Arkansas and then lied under oath about it. i could care less what he did, but to defend him as a family member is the definition of a hack.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I’ll piggy back off of this. I read a ton of Frenk’s research when I was in medical school. The director of my program is great friends with him and is an epidemiologist and public health official like Frenk is. Even deeper, Frenk’s wife is friends with my director’s wife, who was also a professor of mine, and she is a qualitative researcher with a psychology background as well. The two are brilliant in the community research and public health space.

Unfortunately, that doesn’t exactly translate to running a university system, especially a private one. I agree with Empirical Cane on this. Universities, even more than a health care system in my opinion, must be run as a business. The purely academic type is often overwhelmed with all the ancillary elements that comprise a university. It’s why Frenk didn’t understand the whole sports thing until he got ****ed that Herbstreit called him out for “not caring”.

My best friend is a high ranking official at another local Miami university and a Rabid Canes Fan. The first thing he said when Echevarria was announced was “ I wonder how the faculty feels about the CEO type being their new boss”.

IMO, the CEO type, Carlos Migoya/Echevarria of the world, is exactly what UM needs to get back on track.

Here's how I tie together what @Empirical Cane and what @Canedude08 are saying. I respect both of those posters, so let's find some common ground.

I understand the criticism of Frenk as an "academic". But I view his failings as more of a "personality" and "leadership" deficit, as opposed to the lack of general qualifications.

Put another way, there are many many "academics" that become university presidents. There's not even really a "career path" for University President where you specifically prepare for that job. Sure, one can hold a lesser role as a dean or head of a department, but even those folks are usually academics thrust into more of an administrative role.

And since Frenk was being hired more for his "medical" credentials, one can argue that he is QUALIFIED for the "academic" side of the role, even if he may or may not be the best fit for the "administrative" side of the role. Some "academics-turned-presidents" can make up for their deficits by the shrewd hiring and delegation to individuals who are able to compensate for those deficits. We saw Frenk attempt something similar on the Athletics side when he asked Echevarria and Fernandez to help him out.

Believe me, I'm not trying to be an apologist for Frenk. I have disliked him from early on, and I have been critical of him for the vast majority of his tenure. Regardless of his soft personality, he SEEMS to do job interviews very well. And if he was capable of delegating roles to people who could offset his worst tendencies, he would probably have been fine over time.

In the end, Frenk's tenure was a failure. It is possible to admit that AND acknowledge that he could have made things easier on himself by surrounding himself with good people who "covered up" for his shortcomings. But he did not.

That is all, I'm going to let this rest for now. I'm happy to see him go, and I hope that we hire a MUCH better president going forward. I'd love to see a 3-termer (Shalala) or 4-termer (Foote) lead Miami forward.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Nope. This isn't Liberty and Condi wouldn't be a good cultural fit for the University and what we stand for. Thousands of soldiers died because she saw the middle east through the prism of the Cold War, despite that viewpoint being outside of reality for well over a decade by that point.

Bright lady, not shocked our conservative fans would be clamoring for her. Miami can and should do better.

We have a forum for this and it isn't here.

As an alum, my vote is our beloved University of Miami needs adult leadership that recognizes the critical crossroads:

Either Miami is going to sit at the table or be on the menu.

Go Canes.

 

[Rickd]

Anybody that actually knows Joe Echevarria have some insight into his views of conference realignment?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Anybody that actually knows Joe Echevarria have some insight into his views of conference realignment?

He's a very smart man.

 

[Ispyin]

but accurate. any faculty that puts equity, race, gender and sexual preference over any other idea is the perfect definition of cultural Marxism. sorry it hurts, meng.

here you go, a perfect example of good scholarly work by a UM law professor. i stopped donating to the school in 1998 after i saw that money was being spent by this guy and others on this bull****. nah!

View attachment 292244View attachment 292244

Oh my God, one person or a few people have different ideas than you. The world is falling. Cats and dogs will be having ***. I’m gonna make a culture war because I’m not happy. Omg.

But freedom of speech!!!!! (For me that is)

 

[Canesfan1993]

The fact that some of you think Condi is not a fit here culturally is laughable and have never had a chance to meet the woman. Let alone that qualifications wise, which is all that should matter, she blows everyone out of the water. Too right wing for us but just fine for the faculty at stanford... LOL. I don't think she'll come here because she has a great job currently but anyone not doing cartwheels if she came here is blinded by emotion and dumb politics. Same with donna, she was an amazing president for my university regardless of her political affiliation. Every leader doesn't have to see the world from your perspective. At one time, different view points was seen as a valuable asset especially at an institution for higher learning. Good grief.

 

[423Hurricane]

He's a very smart man.

I personally believe you’re as plugged into the inner workings of the university as anyone on this board. When you speak on topics such as this, I pay attention as should anyone else.

I’m quite sure our political leanings differ but you put your political views aside, notwithstanding obvious repercussions of a bad choice, and want nothing but the best for the university as a whole. I admire that.

May have been asked and answered, but how would feel about Joe having the interim tag removed or are there alternatives you’d rather see?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Nope. This isn't Liberty and Condi wouldn't be a good cultural fit for the University and what we stand for. Thousands of soldiers died because she saw the middle east through the prism of the Cold War, despite that viewpoint being outside of reality for well over a decade by that point.

Bright lady, not shocked our conservative fans would be clamoring for her. Miami can and should do better.

Look, I understand what you are saying, and you are not completely wrong in certain aspects.

But here's the thing. By current-day standards, Rice would likely be considered a moderate. And on her most right-leaning positions (foreign policy), I actually think that she is a pretty good fit for UM and the SoFla community as a whole. I was a UM Political Science major (School of Business, I was also a Finance double-major) and I was a graduate assistant for two Politics professors while I was doing my MBA. I was also friends with Jose Mas as an undergrad, and his father was Jorge Mas-Canosa, who led the Cuban American National Foundation.

So I'm not sure why you think that a foreign policy hawk would be such a bad cultural fit in anti-Communist, anti-Castro Miami.

And, look, with all due respect to my law school brother, @rsa coral gables , I do not see "Marxists" around every corner. I'm sure if he saw my voting record, he might give me some side-eye. But I was an officer of College Republicans in the 1980s, and my best friend from law school was the president of Students for America. We are both quite moderate (overall) and have a mix of somewhat conservative and somewhat liberal positions. If a person like myself (who has been forced to vote for Democrats for 25 years) can tell you that Rice is the best candidate at this time, then I certainly would not worry about "good cultural fit".

Bottom line, Foote leaned right of center even though his father-in-law was Democrat Senator William Fulbright (of "the Fulbright scholarship"). And regardless of Donna's earlier (and later) work with the Clintons (and I know @rsa coral gables thinks that all kinds of crimes were committed in Arkansas and elsewhere), she was pretty moderate as an educator too.

So let's all relax. Let's put aside the politics, there will be plenty of opportunity for that in the next few months. Let's just pick a president who is qualified for the job and JUST MIGHT be able to get us into the Big 10.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I personally believe you’re as plugged into the inner workings of the university as anyone on this board. When you speak on topics such as this, I pay attention as should anyone else.

I’m quite sure our political leanings differ but you put your political views aside, notwithstanding obvious repercussions of a bad choice, and want nothing but the best for the university as a whole. I admire that.

May have been asked and answered, but how would feel about Joe having the interim tag removed or are there alternatives you’d rather see?

I may see this a bit differently than one of my good friends on the board who is a faculty member, but I would have no problems with Joe getting the job on a full-time basis. Clearly, he is not an academic, which is usually a big hurdle/obstacle. But as a Business School graduate and MBA (and Deloitte alum), I love his background and I think he could be a great leader, regardless of those who will complain about "Columbus Mafia" or his ethnicity. He would bring something to the table that is pretty powerful. I realize this is a sports board and that's what people want to discuss the most, but I think Joe's leadership would be sound.

I have also spoken in favor of Condoleezza Rice. I know some posters are fanboys of hers, and that's fine. But I think her academic credentials are outstanding, and I feel that her past work on the playoff committee would be a tremendous boost to Miami's consideration as a potential Big 10 member. And, believe me, 10 years ago IN MY ESTIMATION she would have been one of several potential great candidates for the job. Now I believe she is well above any other potential candidate, at least if we plan on making a hire "soon".

So, yeah, I'm moderate. I'm OK with candidates to the left or right of center, I just don't want anyone too extreme in either direction. The focus should be on what that person can do for UM, not "hey, can you give me a soundbite about Candidate X".

 

[Empirical Cane]

Anybody that actually knows Joe Echevarria have some insight into his views of conference realignment?

I would think (hope) his vision is far grander than conference realignment.

Yes that is important to football obviously, but the University is facing several issues that must be addressed. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Rudy Fernandez is a key ally of his and another strong voice of Miami the University's future + Miami The Hurricanes Footabll Team future.

My pure uninformed guess is he recognizes Miami should/wants to be positioned from an athletic conference within a similar context as he's stabilized then grew and positioned UHealth...world class and premier.

Now, as oursiders we don't have all the info he has, so if Echevarria steers the ship towards B1G, SEC, or [gasp] B12, then based on his past performance, I'll trust he knows what he's doing long-term.

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if both Fernandez and Ecevarria weren't at least casual readers of CIS .

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I would think (hope) his vision is far grander than conference realignment.

Yes that is important to football obviously, but the University is facing several issues that must be addressed. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Rudy Fernandez is a key ally of his and another strong voice of Miami the University's future + Miami The Hurricanes Footabll Team future.

My pure uninformed guess is he recognizes Miami should/wants to be positioned from an athletic conference within a similar context as he's stabized then grown and positioned UHealth...world class and premier.

Now, as oursiders we don't have all the info he has, so if Echevarria steers the ship towards B1G, SEC, or [gasp] B12, then based on his past performance, I'll trust he knows what he's doing long-term.

I pretty much agree with you.

I would just say, I believe Joe is smart enough to not fall for the banana in the tailpipe.

Specifically, I feel that even if the Big 12 offered a dollar more than anyone else, I don't believe it is the correct move in the long term. Same with choosing adidas over Nike. In fact, I'd advocate for taking less up-front money from the Big 10 and Nike to get to where we need to be for the next century.

I think that's what people like Flo get mixed up about. Yes, these conference/apparel considerations will be heavily based on money, but possibly not solely on the FIRST oversized check that is handed out. There are going to be LOTS of checks in the future, and you have to think about those too.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Look, I understand what you are saying, and you are not completely wrong in certain aspects.

But here's the thing. By current-day standards, Rice would likely be considered a moderate. And on her most right-leaning positions (foreign policy), I actually think that she is a pretty good fit for UM and the SoFla community as a whole. I was a UM Political Science major (School of Business, I was also a Finance double-major) and I was a graduate assistant for two Politics professors while I was doing my MBA. I was also friends with Jose Mas as an undergrad, and his father was Jorge Mas-Canosa, who led the Cuban American National Foundation.

So I'm not sure why you think that a foreign policy hawk would be such a bad cultural fit in anti-Communist, anti-Castro Miami.

And, look, with all due respect to my law school brother, @rsa coral gables , I do not see "Marxists" around every corner. I'm sure if he saw my voting record, he might give me some side-eye. But I was an officer of College Republicans in the 1980s, and my best friend from law school was the president of Students for America. We are both quite moderate (overall) and have a mix of somewhat conservative and somewhat liberal positions. If a person like myself (who has been forced to vote for Democrats for 25 years) can tell you that Rice is the best candidate at this time, then I certainly would not worry about "good cultural fit".

Bottom line, Foote leaned right of center even though his father-in-law was Democrat Senator William Fulbright (of "the Fulbright scholarship"). And regardless of Donna's earlier (and later) work with the Clintons (and I know @rsa coral gables thinks that all kinds of crimes were committed in Arkansas and elsewhere), she was pretty moderate as an educator too.

So let's all relax. Let's put aside the politics, there will be plenty of opportunity for that in the next few months. Let's just pick a president who is qualified for the job and JUST MIGHT be able to get us into the Big 10.

I accept your offer to become President of the University of Miami.

My people will contact your people to start measuring the curtains.

Also, please inform the front office staff of my preferences:

- Mt Dew
- NO, and I mean NO, blue M&Ms (they are demonic)
- Tostinos pizza rolls
- They are not to make direct eye contact with me
- Mechanical pencils, no pens
- I take nap time from 1000 - 1400, M-W-F

 

[423Hurricane]

I may see this a bit differently than one of my good friends on the board who is a faculty member, but I would have no problems with Joe getting the job on a full-time basis. Clearly, he is not an academic, which is usually a big hurdle/obstacle. But as a Business School graduate and MBA (and Deloitte alum), I love his background and I think he could be a great leader, regardless of those who will complain about "Columbus Mafia" or his ethnicity. He would bring something to the table that is pretty powerful. I realize this is a sports board and that's what people want to discuss the most, but I think Joe's leadership would be sound.

I have also spoken in favor of Condoleezza Rice. I know some posters are fanboys of hers, and that's fine. But I think her academic credentials are outstanding, and I feel that her past work on the playoff committee would be a tremendous boost to Miami's consideration as a potential Big 10 member. And, believe me, 10 years ago IN MY ESTIMATION she would have been one of several potential great candidates for the job. Now I believe she is well above any other potential candidate, at least if we plan on making a hire "soon".

So, yeah, I'm moderate. I'm OK with candidates to the left or right of center, I just don't want anyone too extreme in either direction. The focus should be on what that person can do for UM, not "hey, can you give me a soundbite about Candidate X".

There are those that focus on a more micro level and fail to see “the big picture”. It’s no secret Joe is a huge Miami sports fan - most notably football - BUT he also has experiences in the business world that would seem to be highly beneficial to the university as a whole.

Ms Rice obviously is a highly respected and highly regarded person that would bring instant credibility to the university as a whole.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I accept your offer to become President of the University of Miami.

My people will contact your people to start measuring the curtains.

Also, please inform the front office staff of my preferences:

- Mt Dew
- NO, and I mean NO, blue M&Ms (they are demonic)
- Tostinos pizza rolls
- They are not to make direct eye contact with me
- Mechanical pencils, no pens
- I take nap time from 1000 - 1400, M-W-F

---Since I will be popping in to visit you, I simply request some Diet Dew to be stocked as well. Maybe TWO fridges?
---How very "Van Halen" of you...let's strike brown and yellow and red too...
---Acceptable
---Challenging...what is your position on "mirrors"?
---No problem-o
---That is WAY less than Frenk, so yes



My work fridge:

 

[JD08]

I accept your offer to become President of the University of Miami.

My people will contact your people to start measuring the curtains.

Also, please inform the front office staff of my preferences:

- Mt Dew
- NO, and I mean NO, blue M&Ms (they are demonic)
- Tostinos pizza rolls
- They are not to make direct eye contact with me
- Mechanical pencils, no pens
- I take nap time from 1000 - 1400, M-W-F

A true Cane knows that blue M&Ms are just an attempt to mute the lovely orange and green nature of the candy.

You have my vote.

 

[Ispyin]

Look, I understand what you are saying, and you are not completely wrong in certain aspects.

But here's the thing. By current-day standards, Rice would likely be considered a moderate. And on her most right-leaning positions (foreign policy), I actually think that she is a pretty good fit for UM and the SoFla community as a whole. I was a UM Political Science major (School of Business, I was also a Finance double-major) and I was a graduate assistant for two Politics professors while I was doing my MBA. I was also friends with Jose Mas as an undergrad, and his father was Jorge Mas-Canosa, who led the Cuban American National Foundation.

So I'm not sure why you think that a foreign policy hawk would be such a bad cultural fit in anti-Communist, anti-Castro Miami.

And, look, with all due respect to my law school brother, @rsa coral gables , I do not see "Marxists" around every corner. I'm sure if he saw my voting record, he might give me some side-eye. But I was an officer of College Republicans in the 1980s, and my best friend from law school was the president of Students for America. We are both quite moderate (overall) and have a mix of somewhat conservative and somewhat liberal positions. If a person like myself (who has been forced to vote for Democrats for 25 years) can tell you that Rice is the best candidate at this time, then I certainly would not worry about "good cultural fit".

Bottom line, Foote leaned right of center even though his father-in-law was Democrat Senator William Fulbright (of "the Fulbright scholarship"). And regardless of Donna's earlier (and later) work with the Clintons (and I know @rsa coral gables thinks that all kinds of crimes were committed in Arkansas and elsewhere), she was pretty moderate as an educator too.

So let's all relax. Let's put aside the politics, there will be plenty of opportunity for that in the next few months. Let's just pick a president who is qualified for the job and JUST MIGHT be able to get us into the Big 10.

I have no issue with her as a potential prez even though I have issues with her from her past.

Also wish we had hired the admiral last time.

 

[Empirical Cane]

---Since I will be popping in to visit you, I simply request some Diet Dew to be stocked as well. Maybe TWO fridges?
---How very "Van Halen" of you...let's strike brown and yellow and red too...
---Acceptable
---Challenging...what is your position on "mirrors"?
---No problem-o
---That is WAY less than Frenk, so yes



My work fridge:

View attachment 292278

-Agreed
-Agreed, but we'll need some sort of candied replacement to.be negotiated later...I'm open to sponsorship opportunities and cheesy commercials whoring myself out
-Agreed
-Would it be too much to also add that staff must walk 3 paces behind me? I'm trying to set an Imperial tone to my reign from the jump
-Agreed
-****'t I should have opened with a bigger ask

 

[Empirical Cane]

A true Cane knows that blue M&Ms are just an attempt to mute the lovely orange and green nature of the candy.

You have my vote.

You get it.

and that is why you will have a highly paid and largely ceremonial position on my staff.

Please remember, I only want good news, no bad news about students or peasants or whatever the little people problems might come up.

Have a minion or someone take of those details. I'm a vision guy.

 

[Empirical Cane]

I have no issue with her as a potential prez even though I have issues with her from her past.

Also wish we had hired the admiral last time.

I'd bet Zorba would seriously consider the role especially in light of his former role at USSOUTHCOMM.