MEGA Frenk Out - Who Next?

[MissileCane]

What are you seeing? Law school is in shambles, comp sci is basically irrelevant in any sense. Rankings across the board and associated national perceptions are all down etc.

Not the OP, but I think UM is doing fine academically. Not an insider (just an alum) but am in academia. Most importantly, UM was recently admitted to the AAU. This was no doubt the culmination of a multi-decade long effort. This has huge implications for both academic reputation and conference realignment.

Imo, the most important colleges within a generic university are its medical, business, law, engineering, and undergrad schools.

I know most about the med school. Med school is #39 in the country for NIH funding in 2023 (#40 in 2014), Sylvester won a National Cancer Institute (NCI) designation, and Ken Griffin donated $50 million to construct the Transformational Cancer Research Building. Henri Ford, hired as dean of the med school in 2018, is widely respected within organized medicine. UHealth is also now an asset; before Frenk, it was a massive financial liability.

The business school was renamed in 2019 to acknowledge the Herberts’ cumulative $100 million in donations. Frenk hired John Quelch in 2017, whose resume is quite impressive, and recently named Paul Pavlou to replace him. Pavlou did excellent work for U of Houston’s business school, and I look forward to seeing what he does at Miami. Seems to be a dynamic guy. The business school faculty is very highly rated, and the undergrad program is increasingly better regarded by Poets and Quants (seems like the better system vs US News?).

The law school situation seems tumultuous to say the least. Others can comment better. I was heartened to hear confidence expressed in the interim dean by other posters.

The engineering school seems like an afterthought. It seems like a solid program though even if it wasn’t Frenk’s priority.

The undergrad acceptance rate is dramatically lower (19% versus ~40%). Part of this is definitely due to being test optional though. I’d love to see the new president make the switch back to requiring standardized tests. It will help matriculate a higher caliber of student. While already a priority, UM needs to further prioritize giving generous scholarships/aid to lure high quality students.

Fundraising under Frenk seems like it went off to a great start with the $100 million Frost donation but seems to have dragged in recent years. I wonder if they’ll hit the $2.5 billion goal by the centennial (2025).

The budget in 2014 was $2.8 billion. In 2023, it was $5.2 billion. The endowment in 2014 was $865 million. In 2023, it was $1.37 billion. UM’s credit rating was upgraded from A3 to A2 in 2022.

On the whole, it seems like Frenk steered the ship well. UCLA doesn’t exactly give its chancellorship position away, even if it might be less desirable than usual given the current campus climate over there. I’m looking forward to seeing who the BOT chooses this time around.

 

[Ispyin]

He still got fired meng.

That wasn’t the point

 

[Empirical Cane]

I retract Butch DAW GAWD.

He's out.

This is the lumber swinging gato to lead our University of Miami!

Joseph Gow, Former Chancellor, University Wisconsin-La Crosse

Best part he is single and ready to mingle. Or throuple or whatever.

https://www.nysun.com/article/wisco...-fights-to-keep-tenure-claims-free-expression

MAKE IT HAPPEN

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Not the OP, but I think UM is doing fine academically. Not an insider (just an alum) but am in academia. Most importantly, UM was recently admitted to the AAU. This was no doubt the culmination of a multi-decade long effort. This has huge implications for both academic reputation and conference realignment.

Imo, the most important colleges within a generic university are its medical, business, law, engineering, and undergrad schools.

I know most about the med school. Med school is #39 in the country for NIH funding in 2023 (#40 in 2014), Sylvester won a National Cancer Institute (NCI) designation, and Ken Griffin donated $50 million to construct the Transformational Cancer Research Building. Henri Ford, hired as dean of the med school in 2018, is widely respected within organized medicine. UHealth is also now an asset; before Frenk, it was a massive financial liability.

The business school was renamed in 2019 to acknowledge the Herberts’ cumulative $100 million in donations. Frenk hired John Quelch in 2017, whose resume is quite impressive, and recently named Paul Pavlou to replace him. Pavlou did excellent work for U of Houston’s business school, and I look forward to seeing what he does at Miami. Seems to be a dynamic guy. The business school faculty is very highly rated, and the undergrad program is increasingly better regarded by Poets and Quants (seems like the better system vs US News?).

The law school situation seems tumultuous to say the least. Others can comment better. I was heartened to hear confidence expressed in the interim dean by other posters.

The engineering school seems like an afterthought. It seems like a solid program though even if it wasn’t Frenk’s priority.

The undergrad acceptance rate is dramatically lower (19% versus ~40%). Part of this is definitely due to being test optional though. I’d love to see the new president make the switch back to requiring standardized tests. It will help matriculate a higher caliber of student. While already a priority, UM needs to further prioritize giving generous scholarships/aid to lure high quality students.

Fundraising under Frenk seems like it went off to a great start with the $100 million Frost donation but seems to have dragged in recent years. I wonder if they’ll hit the $2.5 billion goal by the centennial (2025).

The budget in 2014 was $2.8 billion. In 2023, it was $5.2 billion. The endowment in 2014 was $865 million. In 2023, it was $1.37 billion. UM’s credit rating was upgraded from A3 to A2 in 2022.

On the whole, it seems like Frenk steered the ship well. UCLA doesn’t exactly give its chancellorship position away, even if it might be less desirable than usual given the current campus climate over there. I’m looking forward to seeing who the BOT chooses this time around.

Sounds like we should’ve kept him.

I couldn’t disagree more.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

These two things are not mutually exclusive though. Being Latin American is undoubtedly a positive for whoever is UM president given our connection to the region. I'm sure healthcare was the deciding factor, but that doesn't mean that him being Latin American wasn't also viewed favorably. It's a fact of the univeristy, we rely much more on international students than FSU or UF and we use it as a major selling point of the school - same as our medical system.

Please stop with this stuff. Re-read the posts before you dig your heels in. This is not about Frenk's ethnicity being a "positive" or it being "viewed favorably". There are people who have literally posted, on this board and others, that he got the job due to his ethnicity.

As for the rest of your post, every university touts diversity and international influence, in both directions (i.e., exchange programs). My niece just graduated from Florida State, and she did a year in London, where F$U has an actual (small) campus.

Per UM's own numbers from 2022, approximately 9% of the admitted first-year undergrads were international. Florida and Florida State are not that different, with Florida being heavier on international students (more graduate and technical degrees, which are not as available in all foreign countries) while F$U is a bit lighter. But with F$U being 3x as large as Miami, even a lower percentage still works out to a larger NUMBER of international students.

I realize that some of these numbers fluctuate annually, but let's not cater to assumptions and myths about UM and international students, many of whom are NOT from Latin America. UM has significant populations of Asian and Middle Eastern international students, in addition to students from the Caribbean and South/Central America.

 

[3FW]

Interesting to see what happens here. Is Echevarria in the mix, does he stay or leave depending on the outcome?

 

[Negro-Wan Kanobi]

Her name sounds like a Mexican dish.
Maybe we can send her on a plate, send her to Mexico, maybe the Mexicans will eat her

 

[Brains]

Please stop with this stuff. Re-read the posts before you dig your heels in. This is not about Frenk's ethnicity being a "positive" or it being "viewed favorably". There are people who have literally posted, on this board and others, that he got the job due to his ethnicity.

As for the rest of your post, every university touts diversity and international influence, in both directions (i.e., exchange programs). My niece just graduated from Florida State, and she did a year in London, where F$U has an actual (small) campus.

Per UM's own numbers from 2022, approximately 9% of the admitted first-year undergrads were international. Florida and Florida State are not that different, with Florida being heavier on international students (more graduate and technical degrees, which are not as available in all foreign countries) while F$U is a bit lighter. But with F$U being 3x as large as Miami, even a lower percentage still works out to a larger NUMBER of international students.

I realize that some of these numbers fluctuate annually, but let's not cater to assumptions and myths about UM and international students, many of whom are NOT from Latin America. UM has significant populations of Asian and Middle Eastern international students, in addition to students from the Caribbean and South/Central America.


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Our international students were BY FAR mostly grad students when I was there. I can't imagine that's changed.

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Nuestros fans de promedio ni tienen 3 celulas que se tocan.

Porque la mayoría no quiere entender pensamientos diferentes a los suyos. Es como peleando con una novia loca.

 

[MissileCane]

Sounds like we should’ve kept him.

I couldn’t disagree more.

Frenk gets a B from me. I think Condoleezza Rice or similar could be an A.

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Frenk gets a B from me. I think Condoleezza Rice or similar could be an A.

I wish you taught Organic Chemistry when I was in school. Simply agree to disagree on that one. <-- such a simple statement that I wish more people would use. I guess it's more fun for some to include insults and name calling, not that I'm not guilty of that, but I'm trying to do better. Sorry if you were hoping for an argument or a slick burn.

Condy might do well; might not. I'm not in to suppositional grading. We shall see how this turns out.

 

[MissileCane]

I wish you taught Organic Chemistry when I was in school. Simply agree to disagree on that one. <-- such a simple statement that I wish more people would use. I guess it's more fun for some to include insults and name calling, not that I'm not guilty of that, but I'm trying to do better. Sorry if you were hoping for an argument or a slick burn.

Condy might do well; might not. I'm not in to suppositional grading. We shall see how this turns out.

We can probably agree that we need a high energy, dynamic, and well-qualified leader who will take UM to the next level in all respects.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Our international students were BY FAR mostly grad students when I was there. I can't imagine that's changed.

Yes, the percentage is definitely higher for grad than undergrad.

Still, for ALL three schools (Miami, Florida, F$U), international students are a small minority of the total student body.

And if people want REAL honesty, since students turn into alums, UM's active alums and donors are predominantly, BY FAR, shall we say, NOT the international students.

Just trying to be honest here.

So I'm not sure why so many people think "appealing to international students" is some kind of high priority with UM, at least when hiring a president. Maybe some people are too addicted to political mythology. Does ANY school like to tout its diverse student body? Sure. But I can assure you that Miami didn't experience a surge in international student applications because, you know, "Miami has a Mexican president"...

That's a bit much.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Frenk gets a B from me. I think Condoleezza Rice or similar could be an A.

He gets a B?

D+ at best.

 

[Rickd]

Frenk gets a B from me. I think Condoleezza Rice or similar could be an A.

Don't see how you get a "B" for a guy that was on the chopping block 4 years ago, only saved by Covid. Academic rankings have plummeted and attention to athletics took a game day announcer to get the university "organized" to a degree to invest. May have earned a C for effort.

 

[MissileCane]

He gets a B?

D+ at best.

You’re more plugged into UM than I am, so I’m curious to why you say that. From an outsider’s view, the university seems to be doing well overall. Is the university in a bad state now, or has all the progress made in the Frenk tenure been in spite of him?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

You’re more plugged into UM than I am, so I’m curious to why you say that. From an outsider’s view, the university seems to be doing well overall. Is the university in a bad state now, or has all the progress made in the Frenk tenure been in spite of him?

So, a couple of things. It's not that UM is in a terrible spot, just that almost everything has been slipping and Frenk has done nothing.

First, to the extent that some aspects of UM are doing well, they have NOTHING to do with Frenk's intervention. For instance, I am an alum of the Business School (undergrad and MBA), and I assure you that the success of the B-School is due to decades worth of effort on the part of deans, development, and faculty, and not from anything new that Frenk brought to the table.

Second, everything (outside of Med) has been suffering, some things in actuality, some things reputationally. There are also other aspects of Frenk's persona which have been disastrous on an operational level. I do not want to blow up anything that can be better said by other posters (I know of at least two who teach at UM), but there is almost universal HAPPINESS among the faculty and administration now that Frenk is leaving. Do you know how hard that is to accomplish? Usually, at least a fraction of the faculty/staff likes a President because that's how they got their jobs. The arrogance, lack of leadership, and deficit of interpersonal skills have created NO FRIENDS for Julio at any level at UM. Even Echevarria...well, I don't want to spill the beans on that, but I've been hinting for the past year that they are not (or are no longer) as close as some people assumed they were.

The bottom line is that whether it is TRUE OR NOT, our rankings (across multiple sources, including USNWR and Forbes) have been declining. Whether there are REASONS is a fair question. Whether a president can TAKE ACTION is different, and it is my belief that Frenk should have been doing a lot more. There were some things that SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE on the statistical data front as soon as we started to slip from the 30s (even if part of it was a change in the USNWR weighting scale). Other things could have been addressed if Julio had simply been a tireless and dedicated spokesman for how great UM is, and that is inclusive of the ATHLETICS as well.

Julio has been a quiet, mousy president whose only bold statements have ever involved (a) his introductory press conference, and (b) medical subjects, including COVID-19. Other than that, you couldn't identify a single hallmark idea or innovation that he has brought to UM.

OTHER PEOPLE had to tell him what was up with Athletics, whether it was Kirk Herbstreit (via Jonathan Vilma) or the Echevarria/Fernandez team who told him that Beta Blake was a disaster.

D+ and he's lucky for that grade and the chance to improve his marks at UCLA.

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Yes, the percentage is definitely higher for grad than undergrad.

Still, for ALL three schools (Miami, Florida, F$U), international students are a small minority of the total student body.

And if people want REAL honesty, since students turn into alums, UM's active alums and donors are predominantly, BY FAR, shall we say, NOT the international students.

Just trying to be honest here.

So I'm not sure why everyone thinks "appealing to international students" is some kind of high priority with UM, at least when hiring a president. Maybe some people are too addicted to political mythology. Does ANY school like to tout its diverse student body? Sure. But I can assure you that Miami didn't experience a surge in international student applications because, you know, "Miami has a Mexican president"...

That's a bit much.

I don't think that. You don't think that. "Everyone" is probably not the proper pronoun.

Curveball coming in - do any undergrad or grad students really care who the president of the university is assuming the school itself checks (most) all the other boxes? I'm sure there are some, but I can say I didn't pay much attention to it until I was an alumnus and even then it wasn't until Creepy Uncle Nevin showed up giving out checks to Shalala that I paid any attention.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I don't think that. You don't think that. "Everyone" is probably not the proper pronoun.

Curveball coming in - do any undergrad or grad students really care who the president of the university is assuming the school itself checks (most) all the other boxes? I'm sure there are some, but I can say I didn't pay much attention to it until I was an alumnus and even then it wasn't until Creepy Uncle Nevin showed up giving out checks to Shalala that I paid any attention.

Fair enough, I changed "everyone". It was kinda/sorta sarcastic anyhow, but I take your point.

As for the university president, I'm not sure anyone "cares" in the sense of "I picked Miami over Florida because of Donna Shalala". But I think when you have a good university president, it helps with the overall evaluation. Regardless of whether any HS senior had any political views about Donna (pro or con), I think (almost) everyone felt that she was well-qualified and really cared about UM and improving UM and its students.

I know that when I went to Foote's house during Orientation...and I met him on many occasions...I was impressed and felt confident that UM had solid leadership skills.

 

[rsa coral gables]

He gets a B?

D+ at best.

he gets the D?

what is happening here?