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For those who want to rush this thing

Bicho said:
The Franchise said:
Bicho said:
poncho0091 said:
500 yards of offense is the kind of games that good BCS teams have on MAC type defenses. We are regularly giving up these yards to mediocre BCS teams. Miami = MAC team?
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Who in the front 7 would start for MAC teams?

Renfrow arguably our best DL this year had to transfer from virginia cuz he was benched.
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When you stretch your argument to ridiculous levels like this you lose whatever credibility you might have had.
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#52 would be the only player who stands out in the MAC amongst this group. Just having a U on the helmet doesn't change the fact that you are just a JAG.
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Now you're changing it to a standout? I thought it was start. You guys are absurd with the lengths you're going to justify this abortion of a defense.
 
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ilovelamp51 said:
The Franchise said:
what caused our defense to look like a gaped ******** on Saturday.
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Renfrow, Ambreister, Cornelius, Highsmith, Rodgers & Gaines all swear it's the SCHEME
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Other than Gaines, and maybe Renfrow, those guys are forced to play because the scheme absolutely forces us into playing more defensive snaps per game.
We sub like a hockey squad. It's ridiculous & it gets old.
 
I like bicho but it's being a little disingenuous when people state we don't have the talent to compete with the big boys. No one said we did. By moving the argument to the "we don't have the talent to compete for an MNC" you are essentially moving what the actual goal was of this season to win the argument. It's disingenuous at best. No one and I mean no one other than dbc thought we were actually going to the MNC when the season started.

We are arguing that we have the talent to win the coastal and play in the ACCCG. That was the goal before the season and even when we were 7-0 regardless of how excited everyone got thinking we had a shot (which deep down inside I'm sure no one really did) at the MNC. That's it. If you don't think we have the talent to win against teams such as UVA, wake, GT, VT, UNC, Pitt and duke well then there is no point in having this conversation because at that point you are making excuses for golden rather than looking at what is happening on the field.
 
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NVA CANE said:
I like bicho but it's being a little disingenuous when people state we don't have the talent to compete with the big boys. No one said we did. By moving the argument to the "we don't have the talent to compete for an MNC" you are essentially moving what the actual goal was of this season to win the argument. It's disingenuous at best. No one and I mean no one other than dbc thought we were actually going to the MNC when the season started.

We are arguing that we have the talent to win the coastal and play in the ACCCG. That was the goal before the season and even when we were 7-0 regardless of how excited everyone got thinking we had a shot (which deep down inside I'm sure no one really did) at the MNC. That's it. If you don't think we have the talent to win against teams such as UVA, wake, GT, VT, UNC, Pitt and duke well then there is no point in having this conversation because at that point you are making excuses for golden rather than looking at what is happening on the field.
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We have the talent to win the coastal which isn't saying much. we are 7-2 which is better than most expected this year. unfortunately the game we tanked was VT, whose offense is as much of an abortion as our defense, and yes I know they lit up our defense.

Unfortunately we had to play FSU and they dont have FSU or Clemson on their schedule.

I started a thread a few weeks ago that Vag Tech not FSU was our most important game. We picked the wrong game to totally tank in.
 
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Couldn't agree with Bicho more. While we all made fun of FSU for being the best 4 loss team each year they stockpiled talent which is now paying dividends. Jimbo was 9-4, 10-4, and 12-2. Hardly great results considering the team was left in much better shape than what was handed to Golden. We would have been calling for his head those first two seasons and probably that third season.

This defense, at least, is worse than the one Florida State fielded in 2010, which is why this is year one of three. We simply haven't been able to make up ground recruiting the trenches until this year. Linebacker may have started last year with Grace and Figs but they need time.

That being said, I think whoever made the comment about the 'noles covering up with a 4-3 until they had stockpiled talent was right. I'm not entirely convinced our scheme is flawed or we have bad coaches, per se. I don't understand why we don't run a system our players can handle, which would make a world of difference.
 
Bicho was spot on with the OP - and Bicho can be sarcastically awesome - but this is a very good post.

Problem is that during year 2 of Golden's recruiting - we had very high level position players (Duke, Tracy) come in and the lines on both sides were decent at best. This new class coming in has the lines. I firmly believe that in today's college football you have to start with the lines and build around that.

Again we are talking about prospects - but if this 2014 class lives up to the hype - we are looking at a championship contender in probably 2016.

I have never lived outside of MN and have had season tix to the Gophers for a decade so I can get my college fix on (I have traveled to a few Miami games regionally when possible) - so waiting a couple of years for my all time fav. team (The []_[]) to be a contender means nothing to me.
 
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canesfanmpls said:
Bicho was spot on with the OP - and Bicho can be sarcastically awesome - but this is a very good post.

Problem is that during year 2 of Golden's recruiting - we had very high level position players (Duke, Tracy) come in and the lines on both sides were decent at best. This new class coming in has the lines. I firmly believe that in today's college football you have to start with the lines and build around that.

Again we are talking about prospects - but if this 2014 class lives up to the hype - we are looking at a championship contender in probably 2016.

I have never lived outside of MN and have had season tix to the Gophers for a decade so I can get my college fix on (I have traveled to a few Miami games regionally when possible) - so waiting a couple of years for my all time fav. team (The []_[]) to be a contender means nothing to me.
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Maybe AG should start having seizures on the sidelines...seems to have worked for UMn.
 
To back up my last post - in 01 and 03 - yes we had the SFLA speed position players.

But we also had on
OL - McKinnie, Romberg, Carey, Gonzalez and on
DL - Wilfork, Joseph, McDougle

Not only All Americans - but possible NFL HOF.

You need those trenchmen to allow the position (speed) players do their magic.
 
umhurricano said:
Couldn't agree with Bicho more. While we all made fun of FSU for being the best 4 loss team each year they stockpiled talent which is now paying dividends. Jimbo was 9-4, 10-4, and 12-2. Hardly great results considering the team was left in much better shape than what was handed to Golden. We would have been calling for his head those first two seasons and probably that third season.

This defense, at least, is worse than the one Florida State fielded in 2010, which is why this is year one of three. We simply haven't been able to make up ground recruiting the trenches until this year. Linebacker may have started last year with Grace and Figs but they need time.

That being said, I think whoever made the comment about the 'noles covering up with a 4-3 until they had stockpiled talent was right. I'm not entirely convinced our scheme is flawed or we have bad coaches, per se. I don't understand why we don't run a system our players can handle, which would make a world of difference.
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This is what most people have a problem with. Its not the losing, its how we lose. And the fact that this staff has chosen to let us lose like this for 3 years. We can wait for the big wins, but why do we have to suffer while we wait?
 
Sebastian91... Ouch. Yeah I had been calling for Kill to step down (for his own health) but he obviously has a great staff backing him up. That being said - the Gophers will NEVER see the light of day with Urban on the other side of the BIG10. The Gophers right now are equivalent to the Dukies. I was at a couple of those games where Kill went down and it was pretty scary throughout the stadium. They have done well considering they don't have a recruiting base whatsoever and Jerry's problems. But it is pretty bad *** when in a BRAND NEW STADIUM everybody is yelling KILL KILL KILL KILL
 
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I don't disagree that Golden was seriously hampered by mediocre talent left by Shannon, and has been significantly hampered by the NCAA mess. BUT, is there to be no blame that in his 3 recruiting classes, our DL commits have consisted of Pierre, Ivery, Briscoe, Moore, Rico Williams, Hoilett, Hamilton, Grimble, and I'm sure a few other guys? At some point, the blame has to be on Golden and the defensive staff for their inability to bring in or develop impact D linemen. While it's not ideal to play young guys at DL, especially DT, with the current status of our DL, if we had some impact players at DT, those guys would play...but we haven't brought those guys in.

And, as has been discussed in several threads, it's hard to tell how impactful some of these guys are or could be because of a defensive system that asks the DL to hold the point of attack and not attempt to get into the backfield.
 
And not to mention the Gophers (don't forget that I still didn't say "we" because to me "we" is Miami) has Rasheed Hagemon. 1st Round DT for sure.
 
RaiseCane said:
I don't disagree that Golden was seriously hampered by mediocre talent left by Shannon, and has been significantly hampered by the NCAA mess. BUT, is there to be no blame that in his 3 recruiting classes, our DL commits have consisted of Pierre, Ivery, Briscoe, Moore, Rico Williams, Hoilett, Hamilton, Grimble, and I'm sure a few other guys? At some point, the blame has to be on Golden and the defensive staff for their inability to bring in or develop impact D linemen. While it's not ideal to play young guys at DL, especially DT, with the current status of our DL, if we had some impact players at DT, those guys would play...but we haven't brought those guys in.

And, as has been discussed in several threads, it's hard to tell how impactful some of these guys are or could be because of a defensive system that asks the DL to hold the point of attack and not attempt to get into the backfield.
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Pierre is a legit backup or 3 guy on any team in the NCAA
Moore is still a Soph? Guessing?
Hamilton has battled injury - his best is still yet to be seen
Grimble was garbage for us - staff took a chance based on natl ranking IMO
Rico was the Terry McCray (sp.) of this class.
 
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RaiseCane said:
I don't disagree that Golden was seriously hampered by mediocre talent left by Shannon, and has been significantly hampered by the NCAA mess. BUT, is there to be no blame that in his 3 recruiting classes, our DL commits have consisted of Pierre, Ivery, Briscoe, Moore, Rico Williams, Hoilett, Hamilton, Grimble, and I'm sure a few other guys? At some point, the blame has to be on Golden and the defensive staff for their inability to bring in or develop impact D linemen. While it's not ideal to play young guys at DL, especially DT, with the current status of our DL, if we had some impact players at DT, those guys would play...but we haven't brought those guys in.

And, as has been discussed in several threads, it's hard to tell how impactful some of these guys are or could be because of a defensive system that asks the DL to hold the point of attack and not attempt to get into the backfield.
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With the NCAA stuff hanging over their heads, I would give them a pass on the recruiting misses. But it is still their responsibility to use effectively the guys they do get.
 
we don't need NFL quality players to get by this weak *** coastal conference.

stop bringing that excuse. our recruits even in that down year should be far better than whatever UVA, GTech, Wake, Duke are trotting out.
 
cane305 said:
we don't need NFL quality players to get by this weak *** coastal conference.

stop bringing that excuse. our recruits even in that down year should be far better than whatever UVA, GTech, Wake, Duke are trotting out.
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1. We already beat Gtech and Wake
2. NFL players bring championships - and when you say FAR better - that is exactly what you are expecting
 
So now Perryman, Porter and Chickillo are MAC level players?

Maybe these guys look terrible because the DC doesn't know what he's doing? Curtis Porter was a good player even as a true freshman. His only issue has been health. I don't know what they are asking him to do but nowadays I forget he even plays.

To all those who feel talent is the core issue, how did Olivier Vernon (NFL starter) look when he played on this defense? Their first year we had Ojomo, Vernon, Robinson, Regis, a couple games from Forston, and our Dline was mediocre. Those guys weren't 2 stars and were on a defense that led the nation in TFL's and sacks the year before. In Golden's first year, every single veteran guy on the Dline regressed with Chickillo being the only bright spot.

We have some highly rated guys coming in but I doubt we'll see much of a change. Chickillo, McCord, Kirby, AQM, and Hamilton had offers from everyone and were top recruits too. Still very early with Muhammad but the rest have yet to make an impact playing in this defense.
 
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