Eric Winston On Miami Defense

[mapcane]

There is ZERO doubt that our defense reflects Golden's defensive philosophy and that, on a week to week basis, he's aware of and involved in any game-planning on that side of the ball. This is no different than when Shannon was our HC -- he didn't call the plays on defense, but it was unquestionably HIS defense. If D'Onofrio is making the wrong calls on certain down and distances and situations, that is not necessarily on Golden and can be remedied by hiring someone who is better at calling a defensive game using Golden's scheme.

BUT, what we're seeing here is not just some poor situational play-calling, but rather that Golden's general defensive philosophy, being executed by his coordinator, is risk-averse, reactive, easily exploited, and apparently difficult to successfully implement with our players. We have a macro problem on defense, and that means it falls on Golden. I have no doubt that the broad decisions made on that side of the ball -- style of play, level of aggression and risk, etc. -- reflect his decisions and general beliefs.

Golden is going to have to go back to school this summer, and fundamentally assess his defensive philosophy.

 

[NVA CANE]

Time for me to fallback, it's starting to resonate amongst pros and even Desmond Howard alluded to it on Rosé today....FML

What did Desmond Howard say?

 

[caneaddict]

Time for me to fallback, it's starting to resonate amongst pros and even Desmond Howard alluded to it on Rosé today....FML

What did Desmond Howard say?

He said at some point you gotta question the scheme and that coaches are paid big bucks to out scheme opponents

 

[252cane]

Everyone is seeing the problem. Bleacher report got a article saying is golden loyalty to his staff holding canes back.

They mentioned when butch davis made a change to a more agressive D.They said that if golden made a change they think he needs a proven guy. They mentioned jim leavitt but said they didn't think it would happen.

The only hope is for a new DC. I watched some of those temple and uva defenses and they were not aggressive defenses.

 

[sebastian91]

But we're almost done with Year 3 of the Golden Project, and this defense looks more pathetic, lost, and hopeless than it did on Day 1. THAT is exceedingly troublesome, and runs counter to the trend you see when a legitimately good coach takes over a team. When a good coach comes in, it may take some time, but things improve markedly over time.

The Butch Davis Project ran counter to this trend, too. To me, it all depends on the status of the program that is taken over by the 'good' coach. Saban is a good example of this. Michigan State was a mess, and it took him quite a awhile to get that fixed. Bama wasn't in nearly as bad a shape...they were just suffering with Mike Shula as a HC but at least had some decent talent in place. I personally don't think it's that unusual to see what we're seeing now with Golden. He took over a program in very bad shape, with a huge NCAA investigation looming...it was never going to be a 'plug and play' situation. When big change is made to a situation already in trouble, sometimes things get worse before they get better. I think (and hope) that this is what we're seeing now.

 

[mapcane]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

 

[miamifan007]

There is ZERO doubt that our defense reflects Golden's defensive philosophy and that, on a week to week basis, he's aware of and involved in any game-planning on that side of the ball. This is no different than when Shannon was our HC -- he didn't call the plays on defense, but it was unquestionably HIS defense. If D'Onofrio is making the wrong calls on certain down and distances and situations, that is not necessarily on Golden and can be remedied by hiring someone who is better at calling a defensive game using Golden's scheme.

BUT, what we're seeing here is not just some poor situational play-calling, but rather that Golden's general defensive philosophy, being executed by his coordinator, is risk-averse, reactive, easily exploited, and apparently difficult to successfully implement with our players. We have a macro problem on defense, and that means it falls on Golden. I have no doubt that the broad decisions made on that side of the ball -- style of play, level of aggression and risk, etc. -- reflect his decisions and general beliefs.

Golden is going to have to go back to school this summer, and fundamentally assess his defensive philosophy.

Either that or we suffer with Golden for a few more years.

 

[LuCane]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

I like the part where you say "I don't care how you do it" (scheme), but "a Miami defense should be…"

That's how I see it. This isn't a scheme thing. It's a philosophical, "what kinda of style do we want" thing. 3-4, 4-3, variations, who gives a ****. I prefer a certain scheme that fits with a certain aggressive approach, but there are others here (Dynasty, for example) who don't like that scheme. What seemingly everyone agrees on is that we need to be dictating.

 

[supacane]

They caution safety first before play making. Thats the problem. Thats why they come on interviews and praise players who didnt make any MEs instead of a guy who force a fumble or made a pick. Any wonder why AJ is back there instead of Carter? Gimi a break. Their DNA doesn't fit our style and tradition. Waiting on the other team to do things then counter attack.....and usually can't stop what the other team is doing. If I had howard gunter and crawford and the fr CBs. I'd have a field day bringing everybody up and daring teams to throw. From the first game last year v BC when Luther Robinson bust thru and forced a fumble and he got chastised for it we should have known these dudes were dumbos. Luther Robinson has not made a play since. Coincidence?

 

[sebastian91]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

I'm not convinced that the kind of defense you're talking about works as well against the new trend of spread offenses with more athletic QBs. It worked against more traditional offenses, but I think it's pretty easy to spread out that aggressive defense and use that aggressiveness against them. I don't know if that's what Golden is thinking here or not, and I'm no coach, but that is exactly what Dennis Erickson's offensive philosophy was all about. Oscar Meyer, too. Time will tell if Golden and Coach D know what they're doing or not. It certainly doesn't look like it right now, but I'm not ready to give up on them yet. This is the first season that they've really started implementing what we all suspected would be their defensive style, so it isn't really surprising that there have been issues, especially given the lack of talent and depth. It's always easy to point to initial failure and prematurely conclude that a change isn't going to work, but there's also danger in being presumptive about longer term success or failure.

 

[rsa coral gables]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

I like the part where you say "I don't care how you do it" (scheme), but "a Miami defense should be…"

That's how I see it. This isn't a scheme thing. It's a philosophical, "what kinda of style do we want" thing. 3-4, 4-3, variations, who gives a ****. I prefer a certain scheme that fits with a certain aggressive approach, but there are others here (Dynasty, for example) who don't like that scheme. What seemingly everyone agrees on is that we need to be dictating.

i asked the following question in the talent thread. do you believe we have the type of players on defense that can implement this philosophy? are gaines, cornelius and perryman quick and fast enough to be aggressive and dictatorial? are highsmith and rodgers quick and fast enough? does chickillo have this capacity?

 

[LuCane]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

I like the part where you say "I don't care how you do it" (scheme), but "a Miami defense should be…"

That's how I see it. This isn't a scheme thing. It's a philosophical, "what kinda of style do we want" thing. 3-4, 4-3, variations, who gives a ****. I prefer a certain scheme that fits with a certain aggressive approach, but there are others here (Dynasty, for example) who don't like that scheme. What seemingly everyone agrees on is that we need to be dictating.

i asked the following question in the talent thread. do you believe we have the type of players on defense that can implement this philosophy? are gaines, cornelius and perryman quick and fast enough to be aggressive and dictatorial? are highsmith and rodgers quick and fast enough? does chickillo have this capacity?

Our current talent is going to struggle in whatever scheme they're put into. Our current talent shouldn't ever struggle as much as they did against VTech and Duke. The question is then "is there an end-game that justifies this period of transition?" I think the reward isn't nearly worth the cost. Ultimately, we're going to end up trying to make players into something they are not - even when we get consistently top talent. Sure, they'll be better than what we see now, but the point of coaching is to get the most out of the players, no?

 

[JHallCanes]

It's perturbing that we have had three straight coaches who fail to remedy mistakes readily apparent to message board posters. Look, all coaches make mistakes, and all schemes require adjustments and improvements. But we're almost done with Year 3 of the Golden Project, and this defense looks more pathetic, lost, and hopeless than it did on Day 1. THAT is exceedingly troublesome, and runs counter to the trend you see when a legitimately good coach takes over a team. When a good coach comes in, it may take some time, but things improve markedly over time.

To me, what we're seeing here is clearly an indictment of coaching, not the players. The players are not elite, no doubt, but as pointed out by many people, a lot of other teams have managed to hold VT's and Duke's offenses without the benefit of star-studded defensive players. Again, we're taking a group of players and massively failing to maximize their collective talent. If Golden doesn't see that he needs to go back to drawing board on defense, including by firing his friend, then we're ****ed and he's punching his ticket back to the MAC.

Boom

 

[rsa coral gables]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

I like the part where you say "I don't care how you do it" (scheme), but "a Miami defense should be…"

That's how I see it. This isn't a scheme thing. It's a philosophical, "what kinda of style do we want" thing. 3-4, 4-3, variations, who gives a ****. I prefer a certain scheme that fits with a certain aggressive approach, but there are others here (Dynasty, for example) who don't like that scheme. What seemingly everyone agrees on is that we need to be dictating.

i asked the following question in the talent thread. do you believe we have the type of players on defense that can implement this philosophy? are gaines, cornelius and perryman quick and fast enough to be aggressive and dictatorial? are highsmith and rodgers quick and fast enough? does chickillo have this capacity?

Our current talent is going to struggle in whatever scheme they're put into. Our current talent shouldn't ever struggle as much as they did against VTech and Duke. The question is then "is there an end-game that justifies this period of transition?" I think the reward isn't nearly worth the cost. Ultimately, we're going to end up trying to make players into something they are not - even when we get consistently top talent. Sure, they'll be better than what we see now, but the point of coaching is to get the most out of the players, no?

do you think we are not getting the most out of players because our coaching is inadequate (poor teaching skills, bad scheme) or because of the type of players we have (ie. not teachable, no high football IQ)?

 

[NorthEastCane]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

Even

Even though Parcels ran a 3-4, they were anything but passive. He did not have Lawrence Taylor, Jim Burt, Harry Carson, sitting back waiting for the play to come to them. The defensive line was continually re-establishing the line of scrimmage behind the original line. Lawrence Taylor notwithstanding, a large number of sacks and tackles for loss were made by the front three.

 

[The Franchise]

I've mentioned a few times on here that Corch Al's supposed strength and background is defensive. And, usually, when a HC has a strength on one side of the ball, his team will perform well on that side at the very least if he's any kind of HC. I know if I was a defensive expert, and my defense was being flushed down the toilet every week, I'd step in and fix it. And if he's already tried to do that, then that shows you what kind of inept clown he is in the x's and o's game.

Remember our game against UNC in Walton's year as DC? They were killing us in the first half. I think they got up 28-3 or something immediately. Shanntard stepped in and grabbed the grease board and started corching the D on the sidelines. As much of a **** as he was, at least he stepped in and righted the ship that day instead of standing there like a spectator while we got raped viciously.

 

[NVA CANE]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

I like the part where you say "I don't care how you do it" (scheme), but "a Miami defense should be…"

That's how I see it. This isn't a scheme thing. It's a philosophical, "what kinda of style do we want" thing. 3-4, 4-3, variations, who gives a ****. I prefer a certain scheme that fits with a certain aggressive approach, but there are others here (Dynasty, for example) who don't like that scheme. What seemingly everyone agrees on is that we need to be dictating.

i asked the following question in the talent thread. do you believe we have the type of players on defense that can implement this philosophy? are gaines, cornelius and perryman quick and fast enough to be aggressive and dictatorial? are highsmith and rodgers quick and fast enough? does chickillo have this capacity?

Our current talent is going to struggle in whatever scheme they're put into. Our current talent shouldn't ever struggle as much as they did against VTech and Duke. The question is then "is there an end-game that justifies this period of transition?" I think the reward isn't nearly worth the cost. Ultimately, we're going to end up trying to make players into something they are not - even when we get consistently top talent. Sure, they'll be better than what we see now, but the point of coaching is to get the most out of the players, no?

Golden's defensive philosophy never maximizes the talent he has. His times at UVA and Temple prove that.

In 2011 Addazio iimproved the Temple defense from 16th in the country in points allowed to 3rd. All because Adazio implemented a more aggressive scheme.
In 2005 Golden had the 40th ranked scoring defense in the country at UVA, in 2006 after Golden left, UVA had the 22nd ranked scoring defense in the country again because a more aggressive defense was implemented.

Golden is a risk averse coach and average defensive coordinator at best. He will never fully maximize his players talents.

 

[The Franchise]

Time for me to fallback, it's starting to resonate amongst pros and even Desmond Howard alluded to it on Rosé today....FML

What did Desmond Howard say?

He said at some point you gotta question the scheme and that coaches are paid big bucks to out scheme opponents

Gene Chizik said it was a coaching problem after the Vag Tech game on his show on Sirius. He tried hard to dance around the question because he didn't want to criticize the coaches, but he said it was obviously a coaching issue because there's no other reason for so many guys to be so wide open on so many plays. Chizik's a weirdo, but he was a really great DC at Auburn and Texas and UCF.

 

[CaniacMike21]

The problem with Golden's approach is that it's square peg into a round hole. He's trying to build a Bill Parcells 3-4 defense, with a huge front seven, when that doesn't play into this program's main advantage: access to obscenely athletic local recruits. I don't care how you do it, but a Miami defense should always be aggressive, it should feature a good amount of bump and run, and it should send athletic linebackers or OLB/DE hybrids flying into the quarterback's face when he's throwing the ball. No defense is perfect. But this is the approach that I think works with South Florida kids.

I like the part where you say "I don't care how you do it" (scheme), but "a Miami defense should be…"

That's how I see it. This isn't a scheme thing. It's a philosophical, "what kinda of style do we want" thing. 3-4, 4-3, variations, who gives a ****. I prefer a certain scheme that fits with a certain aggressive approach, but there are others here (Dynasty, for example) who don't like that scheme. What seemingly everyone agrees on is that we need to be dictating.

This x100. You have to know what your kids strengths are. South Florida kids are as good as they are at the prep level BECAUSE of their style of play. When they aren't in a setting that fosters this style, of course they are not going to be the same player you recruited who was that high school beast. This is precisely what we're seeing now at Miami.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Time for me to fallback, it's starting to resonate amongst pros and even Desmond Howard alluded to it on Rosé today....FML

What did Desmond Howard say?

He said at some point you gotta question the scheme and that coaches are paid big bucks to out scheme opponents

Gene Chizik said it was a coaching problem after the Vag Tech game on his show on Sirius. He tried hard to dance around the question because he didn't want to criticize the coaches, but he said it was obviously a coaching issue because there's no other reason for so many guys to be so wide open on so many plays. Chizik's a weirdo, but he was a really great DC at Auburn and Texas and UCF.

yet he was the head coach @ Auburn in 09' (68th), 10' (60th), 11' (81st) and 12' (83rd) ranked defenses....couple that with his Iowa St. 07' (67th) and 08' (114th) he was a terrible defensive head coach.