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Depth chart vs ND Pre Portal

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OrangeBowlMagic said:
What never happens? Highly ranked recruits become good football players?
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I think the issue with the roster currently is we are relying on too many unproven guys with high potential to step in and be great (WR, S, LB, DL, QB). Some of them will, some of them wont. Our success will be dependent on sniffing out who won't by the spring so we can proactively plug those holes in the next portal window.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
We have a blue-chip player at every single position?

That hasn't really mattered in the past, but at some point, if we want to be a good program, you have to expect blue-chip players to look like blue-chip players, and produce like them.

You said the OL will be really good, and I agree. That's a **** of a start to a good team. No great teams have ****** offensive lines. So that's a start. And as you said, the secondary might (should?) be pretty good, especially when Lucas joins the fold. That's 2 position groups. As far as the rest of the "mid", here are the kids you listed, starting with the front 7:

SDE - Bain (ACC Freshman of the year, hurt week 1 last year, Top 100 recruit)
DT -Moten/Blay (Moten was very good back half of 2024, Blay was the #2 DL in the portal)
NT-Scott/Horton (Scott was a Top 10 national recruit, Horton hasn't done anything)
WDE-Bryant/McCanathy (No Mesidor? Lightfoot should be in the mix, borderline 5-star. Blount same.)
MLB - Popo (Top 200 player who took OVs to Taint, Bama, Texas, UGA etc)
OLB- Wesley (Wouldn't say he's mid, but I'm with you that he's not an all-acc player. Yet?)

So how is that mid? It's somewhat inexperienced, sure. But there aren't a lot of teams who aren't. We all know how quickly these rosters are turned over. But that's about 8-9 Top 200 recruits in your front 7, and obviously isn't everyone. Coach the kids up and put them in a good scheme. They're not all going to be hits but they can't all be mid either, if they are then shoot the whole program into the sun.

And then on the offensive skill side, here's what you listed:

RB - Fletcher, Lyle, CJJ, Allen, Chris Wheatley-Humphrey, Pringle (2025 signee)

WRx - C.J. Daniels, Horton, Robinson, Moore (2025 signee)
WRy - Joseph (transfer candidate), Toney (2025 signee)
WRz - Trader, Carr, Kirk (transfer candidate), Upshaw (2025 signee)

TE - Lofton, Williams, Bauman

Again, how is this mid? Fletcher is a proven good player and crazy high recruit. Lyle was basically the same. These are both kids who were committed to one of the 2-3 best programs in the country. They're mid? I agree we need another back for depth, but Pringle looks like a really good player, we'll have to see.

Trader and Carr were both borderline 5-star receivers. Everyone in the country wanted them. Ray Ray was a very highly ranked kid. Toney is a first-team All-American. Robinson was courted by Taint and was a blue-chip kid. Daniels was a highly sought after transfer. Lofton looks like a future star.

Again, I'm not sunshine pumping saying these kids will be great. A lot of them need to prove it. But my point is, you can't say someone who didn't play in Year 1 and was a 5-star or high 4-star recruit is mid. Just because they haven't played yet doesn't mean they're mid. So if you'd have said we have a lot of kids who are inexperienced and need to prove they're good players, I'm with you. But saying we have a good OL and good secondary and the rest of the roster sucks is from Page 1 of the Mope Handbook. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me Justin Scott is mid. Etc Etc.
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Not saying u can’t be right but this is usually how the off season goes..We look at our depth chart and basically just think of the best case scenario everywhere and overrate what we have. We just find any angle to make it seem better than what it really is

Then when position groups disappoint we’re like its a failure and fire this coach, and how did we lose to such and such..Majority of the stuff you posted can be the exact opposite or just not be good enough and mid like OP said

And since its the off season and everyone is coping & optimistic cause we’re fans, the people who push back on some of this will get called mopes or fake fans. Its a never ending cycle
 
dreyes1125 said:
I think the issue with the roster currently is we are relying on too many unproven guys with high potential to step in and be great (WR, S, LB, DL, QB). Some of them will, some of them wont. Our success will be dependent on sniffing out who won't by the spring so we can proactively plug those holes in the next portal window.
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That is only a portion of the issue. With young players you want continuity. The best way to have guys make plays is confidence. We will have players learning there 2nd, 3rd or even 4th system in college. That is universally seen as a problem in the NFL, but here we are.
 
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E1k said:
Not saying u can’t be right but this is usually how the off season goes..We look at our depth chart and basically just think of the best case scenario everywhere and overrate what we have. We just find any angle to make it seem better than what it really is

Then when position groups disappoint we’re like its a failure and fire this coach, and how did we lose to such and such..Majority of the stuff you posted can be the exact opposite or just not be good enough and mid like OP said

And since its the off season and everyone is coping & optimistic cause we’re fans, the people who push back on some of this will get called mopes or fake fans. Its a never ending cycle
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I get all this but this is how college football works. Which programs just replace great players with proven talent? You have to rely on your evaluation, coaching, development, and hope your kids are bought in to be better. This isn't the NFL where you just plug Patrick Mahomes in and he's your QB for a decade and you're set at that position. You continually have to rely on unproven players. The key is making sure they're good. If we can't count on the coaching staff to bring in good players and replace outgoing players with productive ones, then we're cooked. That's literally the entire goal of a football program.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
I get all this but this is how college football works. Which programs just replace great players with proven talent? You have to rely on your evaluation, coaching, development, and hope your kids are bought in to be better. This isn't the NFL where you just plug Patrick Mahomes in and he's your QB for a decade and you're set at that position. You continually have to rely on unproven players. The key is making sure they're good. If we can't count on the coaching staff to bring in good players and replace outgoing players with productive ones, then we're cooked. That's literally the entire goal of a football program.
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Maybe you have missed the data when posted, but the numbers indicate that wont be the case under Mario. I really do want it to finally be different, but the evidence is the evidence.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
I get all this but this is how college football works. Which programs just replace great players with proven talent? You have to rely on your evaluation, coaching, development, and hope your kids are bought in to be better. This isn't the NFL where you just plug Patrick Mahomes in and he's your QB for a decade and you're set at that position. You continually have to rely on unproven players. The key is making sure they're good. If we can't count on the coaching staff to bring in good players and replace outgoing players with productive ones, then we're cooked. That's literally the entire goal of a football program.
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Agree you can't just build a team full of portal guys. Of course ideally we hit on all of our high school evals and don't need the portal. The key is knowing when your eval failed or guys are not ready and you need to hit the portal (ie like we did at CB the last few weeks). It's too early to tell at several positions - WR, LB, etc. I hope all those young guys live up to their potential. But history tells us some of those will be misses and we better figure that out in the Spring so we can plug those holes BEFORE the season instead of praying they all hit.
 
252cane said:
Who is the mid slated to get pt? All these guys was highly recruited at wr, rb, d-line, and lb
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
We have a blue-chip player at every single position?

That hasn't really mattered in the past, but at some point, if we want to be a good program, you have to expect blue-chip players to look like blue-chip players, and produce like them.

You said the OL will be really good, and I agree. That's a **** of a start to a good team. No great teams have ****** offensive lines. So that's a start. And as you said, the secondary might (should?) be pretty good, especially when Lucas joins the fold. That's 2 position groups. As far as the rest of the "mid", here are the kids you listed, starting with the front 7:

SDE - Bain (ACC Freshman of the year, hurt week 1 last year, Top 100 recruit)
DT -Moten/Blay (Moten was very good back half of 2024, Blay was the #2 DL in the portal)
NT-Scott/Horton (Scott was a Top 10 national recruit, Horton hasn't done anything)
WDE-Bryant/McCanathy (No Mesidor? Lightfoot should be in the mix, borderline 5-star. Blount same.)
MLB - Popo (Top 200 player who took OVs to Taint, Bama, Texas, UGA etc)
OLB- Wesley (Wouldn't say he's mid, but I'm with you that he's not an all-acc player. Yet?)

So how is that mid? It's somewhat inexperienced, sure. But there aren't a lot of teams who aren't. We all know how quickly these rosters are turned over. But that's about 8-9 Top 200 recruits in your front 7, and obviously isn't everyone. Coach the kids up and put them in a good scheme. They're not all going to be hits but they can't all be mid either, if they are then shoot the whole program into the sun.

And then on the offensive skill side, here's what you listed:

RB - Fletcher, Lyle, CJJ, Allen, Chris Wheatley-Humphrey, Pringle (2025 signee)

WRx - C.J. Daniels, Horton, Robinson, Moore (2025 signee)
WRy - Joseph (transfer candidate), Toney (2025 signee)
WRz - Trader, Carr, Kirk (transfer candidate), Upshaw (2025 signee)

TE - Lofton, Williams, Bauman

Again, how is this mid? Fletcher is a proven good player and crazy high recruit. Lyle was basically the same. These are both kids who were committed to one of the 2-3 best programs in the country. They're mid? I agree we need another back for depth, but Pringle looks like a really good player, we'll have to see.

Trader and Carr were both borderline 5-star receivers. Everyone in the country wanted them. Ray Ray was a very highly ranked kid. Toney is a first-team All-American. Robinson was courted by Taint and was a blue-chip kid. Daniels was a highly sought after transfer. Lofton looks like a future star.

Again, I'm not sunshine pumping saying these kids will be great. A lot of them need to prove it. But my point is, you can't say someone who didn't play in Year 1 and was a 5-star or high 4-star recruit is mid. Just because they haven't played yet doesn't mean they're mid. So if you'd have said we have a lot of kids who are inexperienced and need to prove they're good players, I'm with you. But saying we have a good OL and good secondary and the rest of the roster sucks is from Page 1 of the Mope Handbook. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me Justin Scott is mid. Etc Etc.
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What Cam Ward’s time here did more than anything was demonstrate what elite really looks like. It seems to me this fanbase severely overrates our players based on; star-rankings, offers, showing flashes as a Freshman, vibes from Greentree…take your pick.

As an example, Lofton showed flashes in limited time and lots of people automatically assume he’ll take the next leap in development based on that limited production. Meanwhile, they memory-hole Bain’s sophomore season.

It also seems to me that this staff hasn’t demonstrated any ability to evaluate or develop talent outside of OL. The magnitude of guys who transferred out already from their first 2 classes is astounding.

I didn’t see anything from Fletcher, Lyle, or any other returning offensive player outside of OL to lead me to believe everything is just fine at their respective positions. And as far as defensive players go, if you could barely sniff the field last year, “mid” is about as kind as I can be.
 
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bdcane4eva said:
Rn we are thin where it's gonna matter.
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OL is getting a little too much credit as well

Bell is a work in progress and no one stepped up at LG last year. Sure guys like McCoy, Kinsler, Bell etc might step up and we could have an elite line but for right now there’s a lot of questions for people to just be like “OL will save us”
 
Dan E. Dangerously said:
What Cam Ward’s time here did more than anything was demonstrate what elite really looks like. It seems to me this fanbase severely overrates our players based on; star-rankings, offers, showing flashes as a Freshman, vibes from Greentree…take your pick.

As an example, Lofton showed flashes in limited time and lots of people automatically assume he’ll take the next leap in development based on that limited production. Meanwhile, they memory-hole Bain’s sophomore season.

It also seems to me that this staff hasn’t demonstrated any ability to evaluate or develop talent outside of OL. The magnitude of guys who transferred out already from their first 2 classes is astounding.

I didn’t see anything from Fletcher, Lyle, or any other returning offensive player outside of OL to lead me to believe everything is just fine at their respective positions. And as far as defensive players go, if you could barely sniff the field last year, “mid” is about as kind as I can be.
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I get it but I’m giving some of the young guys the benefit of the doubt. I agree on a guy like fletcher too. He is solid but I don’t see difference maker. Lyle haven’t seen enough to determine on him. Guess we will find out through spring and early in the season
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
I get all this but this is how college football works. Which programs just replace great players with proven talent? You have to rely on your evaluation, coaching, development, and hope your kids are bought in to be better. This isn't the NFL where you just plug Patrick Mahomes in and he's your QB for a decade and you're set at that position. You continually have to rely on unproven players. The key is making sure they're good. If we can't count on the coaching staff to bring in good players and replace outgoing players with productive ones, then we're cooked. That's literally the entire goal of a football program.
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Agreed but i think in that post you’re overrating the guys who we have seen

And im not saying they’re gonna be bad but just thinking the best case scenario will happen with every question mark we have is what gets people..Which isn’t a crazy problem, like we’re all fans that want the best but people go too far and stop looking at it realistically
 
JHallCanes said:
OL is getting a little too much credit as well

Bell is a work in progress and no one stepped up at LG last year. Sure guys like McCoy, Kinsler, Bell etc might step up and we could have an elite line but for right now there’s a lot of questions for people to just be like “OL will save us”
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