Defensive Scheme vs Talent

[4000TMNT]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

 

[Coach Macho]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

 

[4000TMNT]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I know what you mean by the 2 gap rule, I played that at high school, our defense was very bad that year.

If the Defense still struggles like last year, do you think Golden will switch back to Miami 4-3 Defense?

 

[Dynasty]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I too don't like the philosophy of running a two gap scheme. I also don't like the concept of spot dropping with regards to the play of the back seven. If given a choice between being complex upfront or in the back seven, I'd take the back seven. Let the front four attack and penetrate across the line of scrimmage. Ditch the spot dropping concept and go with read 2 coverage principles for the back seven. If nothing else, it would tighten the passing windows and greatly improve pattern recognition for the interior underneath defenders as well as the back four.

 

[Coach Macho]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I too don't like the philosophy of running a two gap scheme. I also don't like the concept of spot dropping with regards to the play of the back seven. If given a choice between being complex upfront or in the back seven, I'd take the back seven. Let the front four attack and penetrate across the line of scrimmage. Ditch the spot dropping concept and go with read 2 coverage principles for the back seven. If nothing else, it would tighten the passing windows and greatly improve pattern recognition for the interior underneath defenders as well as the back four.

We're not really spot dropping, are we? I hope not. That crap is prehistoric.

And dude, I agree 1,000,000% about being complex in the back. I always designed my defenses that way. I would keep it relatively simple up front and let my guys "get after it" while I played mind games with the back seven.

And I always ran a 2-read coverage. It's one of my favorite coverages. If run correctly there are very little holes.

 

[jerzeycane]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I too don't like the philosophy of running a two gap scheme. I also don't like the concept of spot dropping with regards to the play of the back seven. If given a choice between being complex upfront or in the back seven, I'd take the back seven. Let the front four attack and penetrate across the line of scrimmage. Ditch the spot dropping concept and go with read 2 coverage principles for the back seven. If nothing else, it would tighten the passing windows and greatly improve pattern recognition for the interior underneath defenders as well as the back four.

We're not really spot dropping, are we? I hope not. That crap is prehistoric.

And dude, I agree 1,000,000% about being complex in the back. I always designed my defenses that way. I would keep it relatively simple up front and let my guys "get after it" while I played mind games with the back seven.

And I always ran a 2-read coverage. It's one of my favorite coverages. If run correctly there are very little holes.

We aren't spot dropping.

It looked like we were spot dropping because:

1) freshman defensive backs don't know what the **** is going on, so even when they are called to pattern read, they drop to a spot

2) D probably did call some spot drops last year just to ease the players learning curve

All throughout spring and fall camp though, I've seen us pattern reading though. Crawford and Howard's performance in fall camp are prime examples of the pattern reading.

 

[Coach Macho]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I know what you mean by the 2 gap rule, I played that at high school, our defense was very bad that year.

If the Defense still struggles like last year, do you think Golden will switch back to Miami 4-3 Defense?

I thought one of our D-linemen said that we had a "new scheme" on the D-line this year. I don't remember who it was though. Maybe Earl Moore.

 

[Coach Macho]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I too don't like the philosophy of running a two gap scheme. I also don't like the concept of spot dropping with regards to the play of the back seven. If given a choice between being complex upfront or in the back seven, I'd take the back seven. Let the front four attack and penetrate across the line of scrimmage. Ditch the spot dropping concept and go with read 2 coverage principles for the back seven. If nothing else, it would tighten the passing windows and greatly improve pattern recognition for the interior underneath defenders as well as the back four.

We're not really spot dropping, are we? I hope not. That crap is prehistoric.

And dude, I agree 1,000,000% about being complex in the back. I always designed my defenses that way. I would keep it relatively simple up front and let my guys "get after it" while I played mind games with the back seven.

And I always ran a 2-read coverage. It's one of my favorite coverages. If run correctly there are very little holes.

We aren't spot dropping

I wouldn't think so. I can't imagine any college program uses spot drops.

 

[skyman]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I too don't like the philosophy of running a two gap scheme. I also don't like the concept of spot dropping with regards to the play of the back seven. If given a choice between being complex upfront or in the back seven, I'd take the back seven. Let the front four attack and penetrate across the line of scrimmage. Ditch the spot dropping concept and go with read 2 coverage principles for the back seven. If nothing else, it would tighten the passing windows and greatly improve pattern recognition for the interior underneath defenders as well as the back four.

We're not really spot dropping, are we? I hope not. That crap is prehistoric.

And dude, I agree 1,000,000% about being complex in the back. I always designed my defenses that way. I would keep it relatively simple up front and let my guys "get after it" while I played mind games with the back seven.

And I always ran a 2-read coverage. It's one of my favorite coverages. If run correctly there are very little holes.

Cant confirm without it being a coach (since our great beat writers would rather ask if players are cleared when told not to) but when watching us play, all I see is guys running to spots (especially our LB) and more worried to cover grass and then the QB throws a nice and easy slant right by their ear in a huge window. Its the reason EVERY qb has success (that in tandem with our Dline dancing with the oline) against us. We give them soooo many easy throws. Especially off play action. Sh*t works like clock work, play action, lb bite hard because we cant stop the run, then they turn and scramble to flats as the WR runs a slant to vacated spot. ugh.


I will add, coverage seems a little tighter in the little bit of camp vid we have seen, atleast underneath. Because from deep our DB cant seem to cover our WR

 

[SmokeyRone]

Dorito's excuses are running out. Have to play ten yards off the ball on third and five, but when it's third and ten, we have to play 20 yards off the ball.

Sickening. All becuase we don't want an awful QB to beat us long. (Happened ONCE, in the Maryland game in 2011) So, let an awful QB have totally uncontested to 15 yards from the LOS, and let them drive 80 yards for a TD every posession.

Sick of his crap, I am.

i BET MY LIFE THAT WE WERE LESS THAN 50% IN STOPPING ON 3RD/4TH AND 10 OR LONGER.

Dorito is either incompetant, or more likely willfully negligent or worse, and is trying to lose games for us. (Like Nix)

 

[jerzeycane]

Dorito's excuses are running out. Have to play ten yards off the ball on third and five, but when it's third and ten, we have to play 20 yards off the ball.

Sickening. All becuase we don't want an awful QB to beat us long. (Happened ONCE, in the Maryland game in 2011) So, let an awful QB have totally uncontested to 15 yards from the LOS, and let them drive 80 yards for a TD every posession.

Sick of his crap, I am.

i BET MY LIFE THAT WE WERE LESS THAN 50% IN STOPPING ON 3RD/4TH AND 10 OR LONGER.

This gentleman obviously missed the NC State game last year

 

[Dynasty]

Do you think the reason the defense struggle last year is because of the 1 Gap and 2 Gap principles or 3-4 in general?

I don't think the 3-4 is a real issue. We don't even run it often enough to consider it a concern.

In my opinions, the issues on defense were...

1. Youth.
2. A complex scheme. D'Onofrio runs alot of different stuff. Sometimes we 1-gap on the DL. Sometimes we 2-gap. Sometimes we angle and/or slant. Sometimes we play ODD front (3 down) and sometimes we play EVEN front (4 down). We run 3-4. We run 4-3 Over. We run a ton of stuff and have young players trying to adjust.
3. Lack of talent.
4. 2-gapping. I think 2-gapping is the wrong thing to do with these guys. The only definite I can say about our defense is that I HATE 2-GAPPING. I'm open to everything else but I think 2-gapping is a bad idea.

I too don't like the philosophy of running a two gap scheme. I also don't like the concept of spot dropping with regards to the play of the back seven. If given a choice between being complex upfront or in the back seven, I'd take the back seven. Let the front four attack and penetrate across the line of scrimmage. Ditch the spot dropping concept and go with read 2 coverage principles for the back seven. If nothing else, it would tighten the passing windows and greatly improve pattern recognition for the interior underneath defenders as well as the back four.

We're not really spot dropping, are we? I hope not. That crap is prehistoric.

And dude, I agree 1,000,000% about being complex in the back. I always designed my defenses that way. I would keep it relatively simple up front and let my guys "get after it" while I played mind games with the back seven.

And I always ran a 2-read coverage. It's one of my favorite coverages. If run correctly there are very little holes.

Cant confirm without it being a coach (since our great beat writers would rather ask if players are cleared when told not to) but when watching us play, all I see is guys running to spots (especially our LB) and more worried to cover grass and then the QB throws a nice and easy slant right by their ear in a huge window. Its the reason EVERY qb has success (that in tandem with our Dline dancing with the oline) against us. We give them soooo many easy throws. Especially off play action. Sh*t works like clock work, play action, lb bite hard because we cant stop the run, then they turn and scramble to flats as the WR runs a slant to vacated spot. ugh.


I will add, coverage seems a little tighter in the little bit of camp vid we have seen, atleast underneath. Because from deep our DB cant seem to cover our WR

This. I remember there was an interview a couple of weeks ago where MBarrow was talking about linebacking play off of playaction. In the clip it clearly showed the linebackers turning and running to specific landmarks (classic spot dropping techniques). Additionally, on these play of the day videos, just check out the underneath defenders. They aren't looking up anybody. They are looking at the quarterback while dropping to landmarks. Just today there was a linebacker who just touched a receiver as the receiver ran through his zone. If the linebacker can touch the receiver surely he can knock him off his route. I don't know, maybe coach D/Golden don't want the guys to be overly physical since opening day is right around the corner. But, imo, it still appears as though we are using spot dropping principles.

 

[FullyERicht]

WCD: you were adamant that our players were not lacking in S and C training. Adamant that the issue wasn't the program, but the players. Meanwhile, Swasey was cruising along doing a half assed job, no nutrition, and no direction from Randy (still doesn't excuse Swasey letting his shop become a joke).

Secondly, you are opposed to playing a 3-4 at the U. So am I. But only bc I'd rather the kids spend their limited time better themselves as players than learning the intricacies of a complex scheme. AQM should be spending his days learning how to rush the passer, and nights how to plug a hole. I don't see how it helps his development to have him learning all that plus having to handle two gaps, zone blitzes, and varied gap assignments.

BUT, the idea that Miami kids can't play in it bc they don't in HS is absurd. They don't play in a pro style offense either, but we've been the premier pro style team for 30 years. They can play in it, but not before they learn it, and certainly not as frosh and sophs in a joke S and C program.

The reason JJ and Randy defenses excelled was bc of freak athletes playing without thinking too much. Our kids will take longer to get to that point in this system, but they can still get there.

 

[FullyERicht]

As far as spot dropping: we are talking about kids with elite athleticism and horrendous high school coaching. Their high school corching consists of some ex con who is seething 4 years after Randy got ****canned saying "just play man to man" and calling is coaching. As such, most of these kids are oblivious to playing zone defense.

They forced these kids to a trial by fire by playing a defense that is complex and very different from what most typical high school kids would learn, let ALONE HS kids from very poorly coached schools.

I am wholly unsurprised if they resorted to such simple zone concepts in order to get these kids playing it. It takes balls and confidence for a coach to do that, but AG knew he wasn't getting fired no matter what last year so he might as well take his lumps.

 

[4000TMNT]

WCD: you were adamant that our players were not lacking in S and C training. Adamant that the issue wasn't the program, but the players. Meanwhile, Swasey was cruising along doing a half assed job, no nutrition, and no direction from Randy (still doesn't excuse Swasey letting his shop become a joke).

Secondly, you are opposed to playing a 3-4 at the U. So am I. But only bc I'd rather the kids spend their limited time better themselves as players than learning the intricacies of a complex scheme. AQM should be spending his days learning how to rush the passer, and nights how to plug a hole. I don't see how it helps his development to have him learning all that plus having to handle two gaps, zone blitzes, and varied gap assignments.

BUT, the idea that Miami kids can't play in it bc they don't in HS is absurd. They don't play in a pro style offense either, but we've been the premier pro style team for 30 years. They can play in it, but not before they learn it, and certainly not as frosh and sophs in a joke S and C program.

The reason JJ and Randy defenses excelled was bc of freak athletes playing without thinking too much. Our kids will take longer to get to that point in this system, but they can still get there.

Your right about that but who is to say that D'Onofrio's 3-4 Defense is the right scheme for this team, maybe another 3-4 Defense coordinator can do a better job than D'Onofrio.

 

[Picksix]

WCD: you were adamant that our players were not lacking in S and C training. Adamant that the issue wasn't the program, but the players. Meanwhile, Swasey was cruising along doing a half assed job, no nutrition, and no direction from Randy (still doesn't excuse Swasey letting his shop become a joke).

Secondly, you are opposed to playing a 3-4 at the U. So am I. But only bc I'd rather the kids spend their limited time better themselves as players than learning the intricacies of a complex scheme. AQM should be spending his days learning how to rush the passer, and nights how to plug a hole. I don't see how it helps his development to have him learning all that plus having to handle two gaps, zone blitzes, and varied gap assignments.

BUT, the idea that Miami kids can't play in it bc they don't in HS is absurd. They don't play in a pro style offense either, but we've been the premier pro style team for 30 years. They can play in it, but not before they learn it, and certainly not as frosh and sophs in a joke S and C program.

The reason JJ and Randy defenses excelled was bc of freak athletes playing without thinking too much. Our kids will take longer to get to that point in this system, but they can still get there.

Your right about that but who is to say that D'Onofrio's 3-4 Defense is the right scheme for this team, maybe another 3-4 Defense coordinator can do a better job than D'Onofrio.

"To be honest with you, Mark should be as mad as anybody because imagine coming to the University of Miami and having to play a bunch of kids. Imagine being saddled with that. He's the one who should be mad. And he is mad and he's going to fight. Everybody wants this change or that change, he ain't a quitter. He's not a quitter and none of us are. This staff will be together and we're excited about moving the program forward. The rough defensive season didn't come as a surprise to anyone on staff. The mass exodus of talent from the 2011 team that finished 6-6 left just a few players with significant game action. But there's more to the dynamic in play. It involved a philosophical conversation with offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch. It's a decision I made in May to say Hey, we're so **** young on defense that we're going to have to out-score people. So let's go Jedd. Pick up the tempo. Don't worry about time of possession. Just try to score more than the opposition. That hurts your defense, but that's the decision that I made because we weren't in a good position on defense coming out of the spring with our depth."- Al Golden

Sounds like Al Golden doesn't give one **** what Miami fans think about he and Coach D's defensive philosophy. And why should he? His mentors are Bill Belichick, Bill Parcels, Al Groh, and Jimmy Johnson. Our fans defensive philosophy comes from jack****.

During D'Onofrio's first year working as coordinator at Temple in 2006, the Owls had the second-worst defense in the nation. By 2007, Temple was 44th. And in his final season before coming to Miami, the Owls had the No. 16 total defense. I think Miami will be just fine under Dorito.

 

[CanesAreAble]

During D'Onofrio's first year working as coordinator at Temple in 2006, the Owls had the second-worst defense in the nation. By 2007, Temple was 44th. And in his final season before coming to Miami, the Owls had the No. 16 total defense. I think Miami will be just fine under Dorito.

Apparently any accomplishments in the MAC are irrelevant.

 

[Picksix]

During D'Onofrio's first year working as coordinator at Temple in 2006, the Owls had the second-worst defense in the nation. By 2007, Temple was 44th. And in his final season before coming to Miami, the Owls had the No. 16 total defense. I think Miami will be just fine under Dorito.

Apparently any accomplishments in the MAC are irrelevant.

Yeah but who cares what the village idiots think?

 

[rok]

Picksix why are you talking about total defense? Yards don't matter.

 

[Consigliere]

Picksix why are you talking about total defense? Yards don't matter.

I know you are referring to me and that is fine. I never said Yards don't mater. I said people should be focused on the points first.

Why are people so focused on the yards, the points are what govern. Trust me, no one is gerking it to the yards we let up but the people shouting yards FIRST are wrong and have an agenda.