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MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

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TheOriginalCane said:
Huh? Were you dropped on your head at birth?

First, there were reports that Washington and Oregon WERE going to join the Big 10, before everyone mysteriously backtracked. So let's maybe be a rational human being and not equate "Miami" to the same level of progress that Washington and Oregon made before many parties realized it was a bad idea to rush through.

Second, as has been descibed a million times, this is not about who "has a better football program". This is about revenue and TV contracts as the PRIMARY drivers of the decision-making, even though there will be some other issues like "academics" which are also strong considerations.

But everyone on the planet knows that you can IMPROVE your football program and W-L record. And please don't act like Washington-Oregon are light years ahead of ND-Miami-UNC-UVa in football.
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Exactly, IMHO:

1) If they really wanted Oregon and Washington they would have already got them.

2) Oregon and Washington have a much better football program and tradition than UCLA. Why the Bruins are in? Because the on-field part is not relevant.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Huh? Were you dropped on your head at birth?

First, there were reports that Washington and Oregon WERE going to join the Big 10, before everyone mysteriously backtracked. So let's maybe be a rational human being and not equate "Miami" to the same level of progress that Washington and Oregon made before many parties realized it was a bad idea to rush through.

Second, as has been descibed a million times, this is not about who "has a better football program". This is about revenue and TV contracts as the PRIMARY drivers of the decision-making, even though there will be some other issues like "academics" which are also strong considerations.

But everyone on the planet knows that you can IMPROVE your football program and W-L record. And please don't act like Washington-Oregon are light years ahead of ND-Miami-UNC-UVa in football.
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So they were going to join…so closer than Miami has ever been to joining? Lol. Again my point isn’t whether Oregon and Washington would join/be wanted over/less than the east coast schools. It was exactly what I said - that I can’t see them being left out.
 
Alex Del Piero said:
Exactly, IMHO:

1) If they really wanted Oregon and Washington they would have already got them.

2) Oregon and Washington have a much better football program and tradition than UCLA. Why the Bruins are in? Because the on-field part is not relevant.
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1. Show me where Oregon football doesn’t rate higher media wise than UVA/UNC/VTech. And if the argument is broader market SF, Sac, Phoenix, Seattle,Portland, all are higher than anywhere in Virginia…
 
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calinative umstudent said:
…that’s also why Imo in a perfect world only football would be leaving and a big 2 conferences would be formed from scratch. Cause half the b10 doesn’t deserve to be making $100m/yr over Oregon/Washington/etc.

Now I’d think likelihood of teams getting pushed out would be low… but if that can’t happen I think you just make B10 24 teams and tell the lower schools they better take it cause they don’t deserve to be higher than B12 anyways
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Alright, I'll play along. Why DON'T half the Big 10 "deserve" to be making big money over Oregon/Washington?

Because the VALUE is derived from the geographic and fan-driven loyalties and affiliations. Not by "who won 10 games last year".

Nobody is saying Oregon/Washington are terrible schools and/or football programs. But that doesn't entitle them to a huge sum of money if people in the Big 10 footprint are not as interested in watching their games. That's just capitalism, son.

Can we pick on Northwestern? Sure. But all of the other Big 10 schools deliver their markets. And the Big 10 has historically been stable enough that Big 10 fans identify with Big 10 markets. Can you argue "But but but, Washington and Oregon win football games"? Sure, but Big 10 fans are not exactly thrilled by adding those two schools. The reason that USC resonates is because they've been in the Rose Bowl 34 times, so there's a lot of familarity.

And what you fail to acknowledge is such a simple concept. Where do most of the Big 10 fans live? OUTSIDE of the existing footprint, it's largely east coast, especially FLORIDA, with NC and GA pulling up strong (not sure that will buy an invitation for GaTech, though it's a perfect academic fit).

I just don't understand why some people are so stubborn on choosing to (falsely) believe that conference expansion will be some sort of W-L test. It won't be. Does winning help? Always. But not as much as you seem to think it does.
 
calinative umstudent said:
So they were going to join…so closer than Miami has ever been to joining? Lol. Again my point isn’t whether Oregon and Washington would join/be wanted over/less than the east coast schools. It was exactly what I said - that I can’t see them being left out.
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AND THE BIG 10 THREW THAT PROCESS INTO REVERSE AND ACTED LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Because they received data that said it would be a big mistake.
 
Alex Del Piero said:
Exactly, IMHO:

1) If they really wanted Oregon and Washington they would have already got them.

2) Oregon and Washington have a much better football program and tradition than UCLA. Why the Bruins are in? Because the on-field part is not relevant.
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There was a brief window with Chip Kelly where the Ducks were "must see TV." Since then they have had good years, but people on the East coast weren't checking the TV guide to watch the Cristobal-led Ducks (#16 offense is good but it's not something that no other school is capable of doing) . I don't think UW was ever a big draw. It's all about eyeballs, and I don't think either program really gets great numbers outside the regional areas. UVA probably doesn't out draw a lot either but it is academically elite and at least is in the same general region as the B1G.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Alright, I'll play along. Why DON'T half the Big 10 "deserve" to be making big money over Oregon/Washington?

Because the VALUE is derived from the geographic and fan-driven loyalties and affiliations. Not by "who won 10 games last year".

Nobody is saying Oregon/Washington are terrible schools and/or football programs. But that doesn't entitle them to a huge sum of money if people in the Big 10 footprint are not as interested in watching their games. That's just capitalism, son.

Can we pick on Northwestern? Sure. But all of the other Big 10 schools deliver their markets. And the Big 10 has historically been stable enough that Big 10 fans identify with Big 10 markets. Can you argue "But but but, Washington and Oregon win football games"? Sure, but Big 10 fans are not exactly thrilled by adding those two schools. The reason that USC resonates is because they've been in the Rose Bowl 34 times, so there's a lot of familarity.

And what you fail to acknowledge is such a simple concept. Where do most of the Big 10 fans live? OUTSIDE of the existing footprint, it's largely east coast, especially FLORIDA, with NC and GA pulling up strong (not sure that will buy an invitation for GaTech, though it's a perfect academic fit).

I just don't understand why some people are so stubborn on choosing to (falsely) believe that conference expansion will be some sort of W-L test. It won't be. Does winning help? Always. But not as much as you seem to think it does.
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Is your argument that Oregon and Washington don’t have better TV ratings than UVA/UNC?
 
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calinative umstudent said:
It’s also according to reports they do want Oregon and Washington in the next round of expansion…
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What reports? The fake news reports cited by Washington and Oregon? Or the old reports that happened before the Big 10 regained sanity and put that rushed move on hold?
 
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens to a school like Duke. Huge brand for basketball and lacrosse. They seem like a more natural fit in the Big 10 than the SEC, but it looks like it’s shaping up for them to be a leftover school that’s eventually rolled into the new look Big 12. Same for schools like Pitt and Louisville
 
Alex Del Piero said:
The argument is broader market for college sports, don’t forget that.
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…so Oregon is better than most available east coast schools lol. That’s my point. Oregon gets more views than any Virginia school, and has one of largest media markets in the US. AND has the Nike partnership and I’d just an obviously better football program than Virginia schools or UNC. Cal is basically the same but better argument pulling from SF Bay area and Sacramento and basically being the same as UVA athletically/academically
 
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Angry Ibis said:
Is there 1 that has Miami on it….
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calinative umstudent said:
And that means Oregon and Washington won’t join when the east coast school end up joining?…

the east coast may have 8 schools above Oregon and Washington. Doesn’t mean Oregon and Washington won’t join. Also I think you’re just wrong about the Oregon and Washington market. I’d bet Oregon and Washington have attracted more viewers than UVA AND VTech for at least a decade.
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Oh my god, I'm getting dizzy from all the moving of goalposts.

First, who mentioned VaTech? YOU. And only you.

Second, how big do you think the Big 10 will go? If you think 32 teams, then Washington and Oregon will definitely get bids. If you think 20, then it is far less likely.

Finally, as for "attracting more viewers", I don't know where you're coming up with that. As I've already pointed out, Washington/Oregon have a very powerful positive of being "virginal Big 10 territory" and would garner the higher carriage rate for the Big 10 Network. As would Miami, UNC, and UVa. So that part is a draw. But the part where "more Big 10 alums live in the east than in the west" is something that you just keep ignoring.

There's a reason why "footprint" will likely determine the next few teams to join the Big 10. If the Big 10 goes to 24 or 32, who knows? But the natural limitation on getting to those huge membership numbers is NOT about "desire", it's about the SEC counter-offering certain teams.

And in THAT regard, that's the OTHER saving grace for Washington/Oregon. They'll never get SEC bids. So if the SEC takes some of the east coast teams, then maybe the Big 10 circles back around to the Pacific Northwest.
 
Alex Del Piero said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if the DMV and North Carolina areas are more attractive from a TV market and college sports standpoints than Oregon.
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Nor should you be surprised.

If the Big 10 holds a round-robin football tournament to award bids, then Oregon has a great shot.

But if the Big 10 goes by demographics and population, there is more of an advantage for east-coast teams.

I mean, come on, it's inarguable that Notre Dame is #1 with a bullet. So if it's 3 more teams, it's likely to be ACC teams. If it's 5 more or 7 more, then maybe Washington/Oregon.
 
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