MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

1. How exactly does adding ND to the ACC automatically make the conference's (horrible) TV contract up for renegotiation? Have you actually seen the contract, or at least similar TV contracts? Does the contract expressly provide that adding ACC members triggers a renegotiation of the contract?

2. Are you alluding to providing ND a much larger share of contract funds compared the other ACC members as an enticement? That's bad policy and I suspect schools like UM, FSU, UNC, and Clemson would vote that down.

3. It is my understanding ND football can only contractually join the ACC or remain independent, at least until the grant of rights expires in 2036. That's part of ND's deal to be an ACC school for all sports minus football and ice hockey. This makes it pretty unlikely the ACC could ever threaten to pull ND from its "Olympic sports" contract without paying millions of dollars for a breach of contract (to ND, but also likely to ESPN), though that would depend on the precise contract terms.

4. The time to try and bring ND 100% into the ACC was during the COVID year. The ACC let them off the hook, or maybe the ACC tried but couldn't make the deal. Either way, I doubt the conference will never, ever have better leverage than it did at that moment. If the ACC couldn't convince ND to fully join in 2020, I doubt it will be able to convince ND to fully join the ACC in the next decade plus. Especially considering the ACC's bad TV deal and the fact ND can separately negotiate its own football TV contract with NBC (which expires in 2025). Even in the record-setting COVID season, the ACC only distributed $34.9 million to Notre Dame. That's more than ND gets under its current deal, but nowhere near the projected $60 million/year Sports Business Journal projects ND will land from NBC in 2025.

TLDR? ND has no incentive to join the ACC. There is nothing the ACC can do to force ND's hand. ND would have to be run by some of the dumbest ******* business people in sports to join the ACC (which is impossible, because the dumbest ******* business people in sports apparently work for the ACC).
1. Yes, supposedly any new membership would trigger renegotiation of the TV contract.

2. Agreed. ND getting extra money would be a no go.

3. Agreed. ND is NOT getting kicked out of its current agreement with the ACC. The ACC is guaranteed ND football and its media $$ if it decides to give up independence and is guaranteed ND's media rights if they leave the ACC.

4. 2020 was the best chance to add ND, but not really. I doubt ND would have given up their beloved independence to play one year of Covid ball. I think they would have taken the loss of one football season (one that was pretty screwed up to begin with anyway) in exchange for staying football independent.

Interesting note, as you mentioned, the latest estimate is ND will get $60 million per year in their next agreement. However, just last year, it was reported that ND mentioned they needed to get AT LEAST $75 million per year on their football contract with NBC to stay independent.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

This could very well be just negotiating through the media, but if true, what does ND decide to do?
 
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Keep sleeping on the B12 & the moves they r making to position themselves.
 

Keep sleeping on the B12 & the moves they r making to position themselves.
Yeah, they are at least fighting, whereas the ACC and Pac are just content on dying out. Have to respect that.
 
AZ & AZ ST ADs sure talking not worth moving to another conference for a couple million $ more. Guess we will see.
 
Yeah, they are at least fighting, whereas the ACC and Pac are just content on dying out. Have to respect that.

Future live shots from ACC funeral

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Paul Bearer Dance GIF by Jason Clarke
 
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If the ACC were smart. And it isn't. It would offer ND a great deal then say you have 48 hours to consider it, or you are out of the league as of 2024.

That ends this debacle one way or another. If they say no, which they wouldn't then you fly to the WC and sit with the Pac8 (or what's left of it) and hammer out a coast to coast league and tell ESPN and whomever else, to start opening the wallet. You've got from 12 noon to 9pm start times covered in one fell swoop.

there are two outcomes to a merger:

— The grant-of-rights remains in place as incoming Pac-12 schools commit to the partnership until 2036. (LOL)

— The grant-of-rights is broken in order to force a shorter contract cycle and a renegotiation of the ACC’s current deal. (Likely)

Could it happen? A majority of the ACC’s 14 full-time members would need to approve — because ESPN probably wouldn’t break the deal willingly.

Is there a way to construct a merger that benefits ESPN in both value and duration? Perhaps.

That said, you would not discount the potential for a merger down the road. In fact, much of the Pac-12’s current calculation with its media rights negotiations is designed to set the conference up for the next stage in the evolution of college football.

That phase could begin in the late 2020s or early 2030s, at the start of the next media contract cycle for the Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12.

In that world, the Big Ten doesn’t create a western arm (with Oregon, Washington, Cal and Stanford), and the Pac-12 members are willing to sign a grant-of-rights deal into the mid-to-late 2030s.

If the Big Ten doesn’t expand, the chances of the SEC growing again are diminished, adding stability on the ACC’s side. USC and UCLA then, have taken a B1G ride and the cost factors and travel expenditures might become more prohibitive making other schools consider doing a merger which keeps their western arm intact.

Why would ESPN want to help the ACC and Pac-12 on a new network?

Money and the ability to stabilize two of its main brands is the answer.

The ACC Network has at present about 48 million subscribers and could benefit from the number of homes they could add in Arizona, California, Colorado, Oregon, Utah and Washington.

In the states where there is an ACC team the network is getting about $2 per month from its cable deals through ESPN. Put the Pac teams in there and the fees will go a bit higher while adding new subs producing some impressive dollar per month figures.
East Division

Clemson

Duke

North Carolina

Florida State

Miami

Virginia

Virginia Tech

Syracuse

Boston College

NCSU

Pittsburgh
West Division

Cal

Stanford

Oregon

Washington

Utah

Arizona

Arizona State

Louisville

Washington State

Oregon State

Colorado

3 divisions could also be done including UL, CU, UVA, VT, and a few others keeping the ACC intact
Miami would be in the southern division with Clemson and FSU. 8 teams per division.
back up stop GIF
 

Keep sleeping on the B12 & the moves they r making to position themselves.
They appear to be doing the best they possibly can having just lost their two marquee teams. Further reason for nobody to believe getting to 8 ADs willing to leave the ACC is going to be difficult. It is all a matter of timing. It is a no brainer for any team in this conference that is not a lock for SEC/B1G to not just accept but solicit membership there, meaning everyone except FSU/Clem.

They may not contend for football titles as much as SEC/B1G when this is done, but they will be better compensated and get more exposure than the ACC would get for the next 12 years (if moves happen in 2024). Louisville, Pitt, NC State, GT, UVA, Va tech AD's at a minimum should all be on the phone with them to secure one of those probably 8 slots they could fill. And we probably should be too, its fun to say we are attached to clemson but if it comes down to it they will do what is best for them and join the SEC without us I'd bet. always a good idea to have a backup plan if it turns out our brand isn't quite as shiny in the eyes of those leagues as it is in ours.
 
They appear to be doing the best they possibly can having just lost their two marquee teams. Further reason for nobody to believe getting to 8 ADs willing to leave the ACC is going to be difficult. It is all a matter of timing. It is a no brainer for any team in this conference that is not a lock for SEC/B1G to not just accept but solicit membership there, meaning everyone except FSU/Clem.

They may not contend for football titles as much as SEC/B1G when this is done, but they will be better compensated and get more exposure than the ACC would get for the next 12 years (if moves happen in 2024). Louisville, Pitt, NC State, GT, UVA, Va tech AD's at a minimum should all be on the phone with them to secure one of those probably 8 slots they could fill. And we probably should be too, its fun to say we are attached to clemson but if it comes down to it they will do what is best for them and join the SEC without us I'd bet. always a good idea to have a backup plan if it turns out our brand isn't quite as shiny in the eyes of those leagues as it is in ours.

Bro, u must have a back up plan. Remember that time The PAC-12 thought they had an alliance w/ The B1G? I do; u know what happened? The B1G did what was best for them & screwed the PAC-12 thoroughly.

We cannot hinge our fate on what others r doing; this is a cut throat biz. I’m w/ u; if the SEC said Clemson we want u, & say chit about us, I promise u, they r giving us the deuces. Our goal right now should be to thoroughly vet all options to position ourselves for any move that’s available.
 
We cannot hinge our fate on what others r doing; this is a cut throat biz. I’m w/ u; if the SEC said Clemson we want u, & say chit about us, I promise u, they r giving us the deuces. Our goal right now should be to thoroughly vet all options to position ourselves for any move that’s available.
Right, this is like a 5 star recruit that wants to bring their lower ranked friend to school with them... At the end of the day if they want to play at a top ranked school and those schools won't take their buddy than they will just have to catch up with their friend whenever they are both back in town.
 
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This is actually a good thing for us in my opinion. It's another potential better landing spot for ACC schools which are looking for a way out.

So if the PAC ends up with an even better deal than the Big12 and they're still looking to expand, then you'll have the Big12 and the PAC that would/could take at least 5 or 6 of the ACC schools and still grow everybody's slice of the pie. And that leaves Clemson, FSU, Miami, maybe UNC, free to go wherever but because it effectively dissolves the ACC.


Arizona president Robert C. Robbins: Pac-12 media deal will be ‘better’ than Big 12’

“None of us aspire to win a bronze medal,” Robbins said, “but I think we solidly got a bronze medal in this thing. I think we’ll be the third-best deal out of the (Power) 5 leagues."
 
The Big Ten and SEC, among everyone left on the outside so far, would prefer the pairing of UNC/UVA over most other choices (after the obvious ND).

The Big Ten might prefer FSU and Clemson because they have the huge stadiums, current brand, huge alumni list and numbers of eyeballs they covet - but its easy to argue UNC/UVA over those two for the other reasons.

And the SEC is already in Florida and South Carolina in a big way.

AAU membership is a huge deal to the Big Ten and the geography, flagship schools and new markets work for both the SEC and Big Ten.

I have them behind Oregon/Washington only because of the GOR.

Bottom line, FSU, Clemson, UVA and UNC are ahead of Miami.
I could see Clemson, FSU...but no way in **** are UNC and UVA ahead of Miami...nobody tunes in to watch UNC or UVA play anyone other then their teams
 
I could see Clemson, FSU...but no way in **** are UNC and UVA ahead of Miami...nobody tunes in to watch UNC or UVA play anyone other then their teams
Nobody but our fans tune in to watch us anymore either and our base is smaller. No doubt Miami COULD be a huge brand but that is the past and not what is happening right now.
 
I could see Clemson, FSU...but no way in **** are UNC and UVA ahead of Miami...nobody tunes in to watch UNC or UVA play anyone other then their teams
For the BigTen, those schools are new markets in big rich states and both are public ivies in the AAU - almost a prerequisite for membership there. Big Ten doesn't go after small private schools. USC has 44k enrollment plus decades of football royalty.

For the SEC, obviously FSU and Clemson are way better and fit their profile better, but again, they already are in those markets.

I'm sure UNC and UVA would prefer the BigTen for academic reasons.

Best hope is for those conferences to stop at 16 and fix what we have.
 
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Nobody but our fans tune in to watch us anymore either and our base is smaller. No doubt Miami COULD be a huge brand but that is the past and not what is happening right now.
Incorrect. Miami outdraws both those schools on average in football still And with a much higher peak rating in big games. Sorry that’s just true.
 
Incorrect. Miami outdraws both those schools on average in football still And with a much higher peak rating in big games. Sorry that’s just true.
That's what I'm saying. I can see as a whole why UNC and UVA are appealing though. But anyone trying to say that if this is about Football they'd be near us, they're trippin. How would you rank the remaining ACC/Pac/B12 schools, as far as value they'd bring to the Sec/b10?

I'd go something like:

Tier 1: ND
Tier 2: Clemson, FSU, Miami, Oregon, Washington, UNC
Tier 3: UVA, VTech, Stanford, Oklahoma St
Tier 4: Louisville, Utah, Baylor, TCU, NCSt, GTech, Cal...
 
Per ESPN most watched games:


Top 15 most watched teams per viewership:


Another data point of most viewership:



Take from this as u will, but this narrative of Miami being this top viewed program does not fit ANY rating data points.
 
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Per ESPN most watched games:


Top 15 most watched teams per viewership:


Another data point of most viewership:



Take from this as u will, but this narrative of Miami being this top viewed program does not fit ANY rating data points.

These links are to 1 yr samples. The ESPN one links to last seasons top results, which we sucked last year - had our worst record in 15 years. So yeah our ratings were poor.

That second link quotes the author Zach Miller from Medium. He also wrote This article Showing the average viewership from 2015-2019. The results? Out of non current B10/SEC schools the rankings were:
1. Notre Dame
2. Clemson
3. FSU
4. Oklahoma St
5. Miami
6. TCU
7. Stanford
8. Oregon
9. Washington
10. WVU
11. VTech
12. Louisville
13. Baylor
...
20. Pitt
21. UNC
...
32. UVA

So I guess the question is will the SEC/B10 only be looking at the past 2 season when making their decision? Or will they look at the results historically? Cause historically we come out looking pretty good. And even for recent results, clearly the SEC/B10 should see the new investments we are making in Football now. And I'm sure our Basketball success doesn't hurt, as well as historical baseball success.
 
Also based on the best data I can find:

(edit: all numbers in Millions obviously)

MiamiClemsonFSUUNCUVAOregonNotre Dame
Football Revenue$74.21$68.91$78.70$55.60$48.12$80.90$136.67
Total Men Revenue$93.54$87.83$93.54$94.32$78.80$93.92$167.49
Total Women Revenue$21.72$18.16$6.50$8.88$24.14$4.03$24.26
Grand Total Revenues$148.50$140.44$162.15$119.57$128.30$121.32$215.30

The difference in our Football revenue and like LSU is like $20M... Which is basically the difference in SEC vs ACC Media payouts with that number significantly increasing in the future.
 
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Also based on the best data I can find:

MiamiClemsonFSUUNCUVAOregonNotre Dame
Football Revenue$74.21$68.91$78.70$55.60$48.12$80.90$136.67
Total Men Revenue$93.54$87.83$93.54$94.32$78.80$93.92$167.49
Total Women Revenue$21.72$18.16$6.50$8.88$24.14$4.03$24.26
Grand Total Revenues$148.50$140.44$162.15$119.57$128.30$121.32$215.30

The difference in our Football revenue and like LSU is like $20M... Which is basically the difference in SEC vs ACC Media payouts with that number significantly increasing in the future.

Where r u pulling this data from? This seems a bit off from most credible business journals that ranks profitability/revenue generating of football programs.
 
Where r u pulling this data from? This seems a bit off from most credible business journals that ranks profitability/revenue generating of football programs.
I have it linked int the comment. Schools report it to the US Dept of Education office of postsecondary education. Our info was for reporting year: 06/01/2021 - 05/31/2022 signed by Mathew Smale, our Exec Associate AD for Business Ops.
 
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