MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

[Jonnyblaze]

You might be forgetting that ND plays a dozen other sports besides football, and they are currently in the ACC, which is imploding, for almost all of them. The B1G won't let ND pull this half in **** that the weak-assed ACC did. Not for a second. They won't need to, they will have the leverage over ND. ND will need a conference when this all consolidates, they will have their pick, and it's obvious that they would choose the B1G over the SEC, which their snotty holier than thou asses would ever want to be a part of.

True. I wasn’t thinking in terms of the ACC collapsing as a whole. In that case you are correct, so my “no scenario” statement was not correct.

 

[NorthernVirginiaCane]

Hey there cupcake, way to completely change the points of this as if I didn’t talk about the big ncaa basketball tournament as a massive but SEPARATE huge revenue issue. We were talking conference deals and splits of hoops and football.

now go get your shine box

you are poorly informed if you don't realize the importance of college basketball on revenues, present and future.

 

[CaneinBroward]

I agree with some of this, but there is less than zero chance that ND joins a "dregs of the Pac-12 and ACC leftovers" conference. Sub-zero. It would be financial suicide for them. They don't want to join the ACC the way it is NOW, with FSU, Miami, Clemson, NC, UVA here.

These leftover teams that would remain are the PROBLEM with the ACC and Pac-12 right now. ND isn't going to go where FSU, Miami, Clemson, NC, UVA, USC, UCLA etc ran from and make it THEIR solo problem, where they're the only major draw in the conference and they're giving their $ away to the dregs. This conference would be FAR inferior to the current iterations of both the ACC and Pac-12. They literally would be ND and the XX dwarfs. They wouldn't make nearly HALF what the SEC or B1G bring in. Not a chance. Yay, Washington State vs. Wake Forest in prime time on the Ocho! Lol.

I really think some of the ACC will defect to the Big 12, anyway. They have to for us and our new friends to leave, anyway.

I believe his example was keeping the ACC intact and adding Stanford and Cal and hopefully ND, not having Miami, Clemson, FSU, etc. leaving.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

you are poorly informed if you don't realize the importance of college basketball on revenues, present and future.

Actually football generates 4x the conference revenue that hoop does, at a minimum. That's per a few conference directors and AD's who negotiate with the broadcast platforms. In fact, I believe the statistic is that football brings in more revenue than the next 37 sports combined, and the spread is growing. This is a football country. The sport has taken market share from everything else over the the past few decades, and it's not stopping. We've seen how basketball schools have become completely devalued over the last few years if they don't have a football program that generates eyeballs and wins. The implosion of the Big East was the first domino that showed what was coming.

One of your problems is you don't understand that the NCAA Basketball Tournament revenue is a separate bucket from conference revenue. So it has zero bearing on the discussion and is not part of the conference/school TV contracts.

You should be a little more hesitant to call people "poorly informed" when you're actually the one who is ignorant to how this works.

 

[SayWhat]

There is literally zero argument that UVA (or even UNC if this really is primarily football motivated) are above us. Period

I would disagree with that. There's more UNC fans currently than we have. Even though they're known as a basketball school, they have far more alumni and game day support than we do.

We've been down in the dumps for so long, the brand is a shadow of its former self. We barely put butts in seats, regardless of what the inflated attendance number say. I know where those numbers come from, but a large portion of people only buy season tickets to make sure they can get to the one big game or two we have a year.

Those of us here and scattered across other message boards are a dying breed. The last bastions of a great run. Hoping we make it back one day. There aren't a lot of new Canes fans yearly and even the local recruiting base reflects that. Most of us are just stuck in the past rather than seeing the landscape for what it is today.

 

[Rickd]

I would disagree with that. There's more UNC fans currently than we have. Even though they're known as a basketball school, they have far more alumni and game day support than we do.

We've been down in the dumps for so long, the brand is a shadow of its former self. We barely put butts in seats, regardless of what the inflated attendance number say. I know where those numbers come from, but a large portion of people only buy season tickets to make sure they can get to the one big game or two we have a year.

Those of us here and scattered across other message boards are a dying breed. The last bastions of a great run. Hoping we make it back one day. There aren't a lot of new Canes fans yearly and even the local recruiting base reflects that. Most of us are just stuck in the past rather than seeing the landscape for what it is today.

Believe it or not the brand is still very strong amongst recruits. 247 sports did a survey recently of 7000 recruits and UM placed in the top 10 as far as highly regarded programs. Get a couple of 10 win seasons and look out.

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

There is literally zero argument that UVA (or even UNC if this really is primarily football motivated) are above us. Period

Not trying to be a troll, but Clemson and UNC are the crown jewels of the ACC. UNC doesn't have the football championships like Clemson, but they have a far better reputation in academics, and have more pulled their weight in all the revenue sports.

When the ACC brought in Miami, we were supposed to be what Clemson has been - a football powerhouse with middling academics. UM did well in baseball for the first decade of ACC membership , but it's by far the least valuable of the revenue sports. Jim L. has provided a few highlights in basketball to the delight of UM fans, but nationally our basketball program gets a shoulder shrug. And then the cherry on top is that academics plummeted and put UM on par with FSU, a school with academics so bad they joked about it on the Simpsons.

I think there is plenty of argument that UNC is above UM in terms of conference desirability. If we'd pulled our weight there wouldn't be a question because the geographic advantage of South Florida recruiting and TV market would give us a sizeable edge. Reality is we haven't pulled our weight and we've basically been leeching off the success of teams that won championships within the past decade like FSU and Clemson. I don't think that's lost on the B1G or SEC conference commissioners.

 

[Canesrule230]

Not trying to be a troll, but Clemson and UNC are the crown jewels of the ACC. UNC doesn't have the football championships like Clemson, but they have a far better reputation in academics, and have more pulled their weight in all the revenue sports.

When the ACC brought in Miami, we were supposed to be what Clemson has been - a football powerhouse with middling academics. UM did well in baseball for the first decade of ACC membership , but it's by far the least valuable of the revenue sports. Jim L. has provided a few highlights in basketball to the delight of UM fans, but nationally our basketball program gets a shoulder shrug. And then the cherry on top is that academics plummeted and put UM on par with FSU, a school with academics so bad they joked about it on the Simpsons.

I think there is plenty of argument that UNC is above UM in terms of conference desirability. If we'd pulled our weight there wouldn't be a question because the geographic advantage of South Florida recruiting and TV market would give us a sizeable edge. Reality is we haven't pulled our weight and we've basically been leeching off the success off championship winning football programs like FSU and Clemson for two decades. I don't think that's lost on the B1G or SEC conference commissioners.

This is the hard truth. I’m hopeful that the renewed financial commitment the university has put into re-establishing our football program will pay sooner rather than later to strengthen our position.

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

This is the hard truth. I’m hopeful that the renewed financial commitment the university has put into re-establishing our football program will pay sooner rather than later to strengthen our position.

I would like to think so, but again, look at it from the perspective of conference commissioners who have every school in the country trying to get in the club. The commissioners can be extremely selective on who they are going to split the pie with. They heard Herbstreit read UM the riot act on live TV and say UM sports have been a f#ckin' embarrassment. That was literally the only thing that got the BOT and Frenk to make changes. As a result of the public flogging, UM decided to go out and hire a big name coach, gave him a top 10 salary, the highest paid staff in the ACC. Cristobal then hired a who's who of former coaches. And the result of all that spending and patting ourselves on the back was one of the worst seasons in 40 years.

So given that dumpster fire we all saw last season, the conference commissioners have every reason to believe that UM football (and baseball for that matter) is dead. No one to blame but ourselves. Sec and B1G commissioners can take a wait and see approach. They can pass on UM this time around and wait to see if UM can show life in a lower tier conference. Maybe they decide to open the books again in the 2030s, and if we've been competitive, we'll get invited to become made men in the big 2 mafia.

 

[Calinative]

Not trying to be a troll, but Clemson and UNC are the crown jewels of the ACC. UNC doesn't have the football championships like Clemson, but they have a far better reputation in academics, and have more pulled their weight in all the revenue sports.

When the ACC brought in Miami, we were supposed to be what Clemson has been - a football powerhouse with middling academics. UM did well in baseball for the first decade of ACC membership , but it's by far the least valuable of the revenue sports. Jim L. has provided a few highlights in basketball to the delight of UM fans, but nationally our basketball program gets a shoulder shrug. And then the cherry on top is that academics plummeted and put UM on par with FSU, a school with academics so bad they joked about it on the Simpsons.

I think there is plenty of argument that UNC is above UM in terms of conference desirability. If we'd pulled our weight there wouldn't be a question because the geographic advantage of South Florida recruiting and TV market would give us a sizeable edge. Reality is we haven't pulled our weight and we've basically been leeching off the success of teams that won championships within the past decade like FSU and Clemson. I don't think that's lost on the B1G or SEC conference commissioners.

Is realignment going to be about Football media rights, or not?

 

[3GC]

I would like to think so, but again, look at it from the perspective of conference commissioners who have every school in the country trying to get in the club. The commissioners can be extremely selective on who they are going to split the pie with. They heard Herbstreit read UM the riot act on live TV and say UM sports have been a f#ckin' embarrassment. That was literally the only thing that got the BOT and Frenk to make changes. As a result of the public flogging, UM decided to go out and hire a big name coach, gave him a top 10 salary, the highest paid staff in the ACC. Cristobal then hired a who's who of former coaches. And the result of all that spending and patting ourselves on the back was one of the worst seasons in 40 years.

So given that dumpster fire we all saw last season, the conference commissioners have every reason to believe that UM football (and baseball for that matter) is dead. No one to blame but ourselves. Sec and B1G commissioners can take a wait and see approach. They can pass on UM this time around and wait to see if UM can show life in a lower tier conference. Maybe they decide to open the books again in the 2030s, and if we've been competitive, we'll get invited to become made men in the big 2 mafia.

Well written Epitaph..
Sad.........

 

[Ispyin]

Actually football generates 4x the conference revenue that hoop does, at a minimum. That's per a few conference directors and AD's who negotiate with the broadcast platforms. In fact, I believe the statistic is that football brings in more revenue than the next 37 sports combined, and the spread is growing. This is a football country. The sport has taken market share from everything else over the the past few decades, and it's not stopping. We've seen how basketball schools have become completely devalued over the last few years if they don't have a football program that generates eyeballs and wins. The implosion of the Big East was the first domino that showed what was coming.

One of your problems is you don't understand that the NCAA Basketball Tournament revenue is a separate bucket from conference revenue. So it has zero bearing on the discussion and is not part of the conference/school TV contracts.

You should be a little more hesitant to call people "poorly informed" when you're actually the one who is ignorant to how this works.

 

[Canesrule230]

I would like to think so, but again, look at it from the perspective of conference commissioners who have every school in the country trying to get in the club. The commissioners can be extremely selective on who they are going to split the pie with. They heard Herbstreit read UM the riot act on live TV and say UM sports have been a f#ckin' embarrassment. That was literally the only thing that got the BOT and Frenk to make changes. As a result of the public flogging, UM decided to go out and hire a big name coach, gave him a top 10 salary, the highest paid staff in the ACC. Cristobal then hired a who's who of former coaches. And the result of all that spending and patting ourselves on the back was one of the worst seasons in 40 years.

So given that dumpster fire we all saw last season, the conference commissioners have every reason to believe that UM football (and baseball for that matter) is dead. No one to blame but ourselves. Sec and B1G commissioners can take a wait and see approach. They can pass on UM this time around and wait to see if UM can show life in a lower tier conference. Maybe they decide to open the books again in the 2030s, and if we've been competitive, we'll get invited to become made men in the big 2 mafia.

I can't argue with any of your points I agree. I just hope Rad and Mario know what they're doing and are able to string together some back to back 10+ win seasons in the near future so that we make it hard for those commissioners to turn us down. UM has been completely asleep at the wheel the last 2 decades man... here's to hoping.

 

[Ispyin]

Is realignment going to be about Football media rights, or not?

i searched and searched and couldn’t find hoops on Amazon or YouTube (fyi all YouTube bought Sunday ticket rights for next year)

yes that’s pro but it’s also prologue

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

Is realignment going to be about Football media rights, or not?

I'm sure football will be the main driver. It's a "what have you done for me lately" world.



Let's look at 2022. UM announces it is finally making a commitment to football, all that noise. And what was the viewership result after a 12 game season?

Average # of viewers per week -
#49 UNC - 849k
#59 UM - 609k

And look at the list of teams that cracked 4 million viewers in 2022. From the ACC,

Clemson 3x
FSU 2x
Nc St, Pitt, Syracuse

Certainly matchups have a lot to do with it. Syracuse probably makes the list because of Clemson. Yet UM doesn't make the list- my guess is everyone knew Clemson was going to stomp UM into a mud hole and no one wanted to see that, but they expected Syracuse would be competitive with Clemson (and they were).

And the other interesting numbers are in 2021. UM and UNC drew about the same number of average viewers (a bit above 1 million). So UM under Diaz had a little under twice as many average viewers per game than UM under Cristobal.

It kinda makes sense though. From personal observation - when UM started rallying at mid point of 2021 , I got interested and watched every game. In 2022, I turned the game off at halftime of MTSU and didnt watch another full game after that. Obvious how the season would turn out.

 

[Jonnyblaze]

I'm sure football will be the main driver. It's a "what have you done for me lately" world.



Let's look at 2022. UM announces it is finally making a commitment to football, all that noise. And what was the viewership result after a 12 game season?

Average # of viewers per week -
#49 UNC - 849k
#59 UM - 609k

And look at the list of teams that cracked 4 million viewers in 2022. From the ACC,

Clemson 3x
FSU 2x
Nc St, Pitt, Syracuse

Certainly matchups have a lot to do with it. Syracuse probably makes the list because of Clemson. Yet UM doesn't make the list- my guess is everyone knew Clemson was going to stomp UM into a mud hole and no one wanted to see that, but they expected Syracuse would be competitive with Clemson (and they were).

It kinda makes sense though. From personal observation - when UM started rallying at mid point of 2021 , I got interested and watched every game. In 2022, I turned the game off at halftime of MTSU and didnt watch another full game after that. Obvious how the season would turn outMiami’s crap season out is

The crap season we had relegated us to regional network a ton last year. That definitely kept the numbers down. How many times were we on Ballys? Seemed like every other week.

 

[Hoyacane1620]

Not sure if this is still true but just two years ago, UNC was the largest subscription site for 247...

 

[Ispyin]

Not sure if this is still true but just two years ago, UNC was the largest subscription site for 247...

Yes but at that point some other schools main sites were on rivals so comparisons can be hard. Now you add on3 where some have moved to

 

[Calinative]

I'm sure football will be the main driver. It's a "what have you done for me lately" world.



Let's look at 2022. UM announces it is finally making a commitment to football, all that noise. And what was the viewership result after a 12 game season?

Average # of viewers per week -
#49 UNC - 849k
#59 UM - 609k

And look at the list of teams that cracked 4 million viewers in 2022. From the ACC,

Clemson 3x
FSU 2x
Nc St, Pitt, Syracuse

Certainly matchups have a lot to do with it. Syracuse probably makes the list because of Clemson. Yet UM doesn't make the list- my guess is everyone knew Clemson was going to stomp UM into a mud hole and no one wanted to see that, but they expected Syracuse would be competitive with Clemson (and they were).

And the other interesting numbers are in 2021. UM and UNC drew about the same number of average viewers (a bit above 1 million). So UM under Diaz had a little under twice as many average viewers per game than UM under Cristobal.

It kinda makes sense though. From personal observation - when UM started rallying at mid point of 2021 , I got interested and watched every game. In 2022, I turned the game off at halftime of MTSU and didnt watch another full game after that. Obvious how the season would turn out.

You're comparing a year where UNC had their second best record in Football since 1997, and Miami had our second worst record since 1997... lol.
That chart I posted accounts for 10 years of ratings, and results had Miami at 6, and UNC at 33 among ACC/Pac/B12 teams.

Sure B10/SEC may have a what have you done for me lately approach, but it certainly wont be based solely off 1 or 2 years. If it were, Miami might be above UNC for basketball lol

 

[Canesrule230]

Is realignment going to be about Football media rights, or not?

Thanks for this, over a 10 year span which we've been awful in we're still pulling Clemson level viewership (while they've been at the highest they've ever been).

I did some digging and pulled some data for some recent seasons. Not much analysis as to why these seasons other than trying to characterize them as Overperforming/Average/Awful seasons. I wanted to see how the ratings would fluctuate:

For 2022 the numbers are god awful (along with the record). Only 3 games that really mattered in terms of ratings - we can't have seasons like this and expect to get in to a P2 conference.

2017 was arguably the best season we've had in 20 years and it shows that when we're on we're an extremely attractive draw. I'm really hoping that with the $ the university is spending this type of season will be the norm moving forward. I think if we start putting in consecutive 9-10 win seasons it'll be pretty hard to be left out given the amount of eyeballs we bring.

2021 was your average season the last 20 years. Some hype to begin the season along with some high tier OOC games but ultimately we fizzled out.