MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

[Rellyrell]

I have it linked int the comment. Schools report it to the US Dept of Education office of postsecondary education. Our info was for reporting year: 06/01/2021 - 05/31/2022 signed by Mathew Smale, our Exec Associate AD for Business Ops.

It looks like the revenue is an exact match to the expense.

 

[Calinative]

It looks like the revenue is an exact match to the expense.

only for Miami cause we clearly **** with the numbers. But more likely the Revenue is the correct number and the expenses are the special accounting numbers

like if you look at Notre Dame is shows them making a $44-77m profit.

regardless I doubt there are more trustworthy numbers than the actual numbers being reported to and shared by the Dept Education for Title IV purposes which is how schools get access to federal financial aid funds...

 

[CaneinBroward]

Also based on the best data I can find:

(edit: all numbers in Millions obviously)

	Miami	Clemson	FSU	UNC	UVA	Oregon	Notre Dame
Football Revenue	$74.21	$68.91	$78.70	$55.60	$48.12	$80.90	$136.67
Total Men Revenue	$93.54	$87.83	$93.54	$94.32	$78.80	$93.92	$167.49
Total Women Revenue	$21.72	$18.16	$6.50	$8.88	$24.14	$4.03	$24.26
Grand Total Revenues	$148.50	$140.44	$162.15	$119.57	$128.30	$121.32	$215.30

The difference in our Football revenue and like LSU is like $20M... Which is basically the difference in SEC vs ACC Media payouts with that number significantly increasing in the future.

How does Miami get $6M more in football revenue than Clemson?

 

[Gsugradcanefan]

Pulled this from the cfb reddit page. Not sure about the credibility of the source but I've been seeing posts on there mentioning a new PAC 12 media rights deal that will be announced soon.

 

[Calinative]

How does Miami get $6M more in football revenue than Clemson?

Don't know, how does Notre Dame make as much as Miami and Clemson combined basically? Revenue likely adds donations and probably endowment can play a role too. Duke reports their football revenues in the low $60M out of $150M total revenue, while Stanford reports $47M from football out of $156M total. VTech makes $53M from football out of $109M total

 

[CaneinBroward]

Don't know, how does Notre Dame make as much as Miami and Clemson combined basically? Revenue likely adds donations and probably endowment can play a role too. Duke reports their football revenues in the low $60M out of $150M total revenue, while Stanford reports $47M from football out of $156M total. VTech makes $53M from football out of $109M total

For some reason, your link is not working for me. No disrespect to you, but I just find it very hard to imagine Miami gets $6M more in football revenue each year than Clemson. They get the same TV money obviously. Clemson is in a bigger stadium and they actually fill the stadium. Much larger alumni base. It just seems nearly impossible to me.

And like you said, how does ND make as much as Miami and Clemson combined? We've already seen that ACC football teams currently get more TV money than ND (although that will soon change).

 

[3GC]

Per ESPN most watched games:

ESPN Platforms Score Most-Watched College Football Regular Season in Five Years

It’s trophy-lifting season and ESPN is raising one of its own after a record-breaking college football regular season across ESPN platforms..

espnpressroom.com

Top 15 most watched teams per viewership:

The 15 most watched teams in college football

Where do the Cornhuskers rank?

cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com

Another data point of most viewership:



Take from this as u will, but this narrative of Miami being this top viewed program does not fit ANY rating data points.

Thanks for the dose of reality,, just the facts please,,sorta like Dragnet..

 

[Rellyrell]

How does Miami get $6M more in football revenue than Clemson?

Yeah, these numbers r bogus as ****. This doesn’t fit the narrative of Miami being a small, private institution that can’t compete with bigger, public institutions.

Here’s a list of the most profitable football programs:

College Football’s 25 Most Valuable Teams

College football is big business for some schools.

www.gobankingrates.com

Ranking college football's most valuable programs

...

247sports.com

Here’s an article from 2018 when we were at our height of popularity this side of 2010. (We’re found on page 5)

College Football Value Rankings

graphics.wsj.com

 

[kccanefan]

Pulled this from the cfb reddit page. Not sure about the credibility of the source but I've been seeing posts on there mentioning a new PAC 12 media rights deal that will be announced soon. View attachment 233043

This right here. I know most are looking at the football TV contract details only. However, you're not taking into account that the PAC 12 gets a huge amount of money for research grants. California and Stanford leading the way. Looking at the total picture it doesn't make sense for any PAC 12 teams to leave to go to the Big 12.

 

[Calinative]

Yeah, these numbers r bogus as ****. This doesn’t fit the narrative of Miami being a small, private institution that can’t compete with bigger, public institutions.

Here’s a list of the most profitable football programs:

College Football’s 25 Most Valuable Teams

College football is big business for some schools.

www.gobankingrates.com

Ranking college football's most valuable programs

...

247sports.com

Here’s an article from 2018 when we were at our height of popularity this side of 2010. (We’re found on page 5)

College Football Value Rankings

graphics.wsj.com

Bro you gotta be kidding me right? you’re first link literally cites my link using data from 2019-2020… while my link is the 2021-2022 data

“Methodology: For this piece GOBankingRates used the United States Department of Education’s “Equity in Athletics Data Analysis” (EADA) dataset to find (1) total football revenues; and (2) conference for all NCAA Division I schools all in FY19-20 data (the most recent available).

Your second link, uses the first links data, except it takes a 3yr sample size.

You’re 3rd link doesn’t share any sources or methodology, just says “Brewer’s study calculates what a college team would be worth on the open market if it could be bought and sold like a professional sports franchise. Brewer analyzes each program’s revenues and expenses along with cash-flow adjustments, risk assessments and growth projections.”

Again the Football revenue likely counts donation and other investments directly received FOR FOOTBALL. This is accounting for the athletic program, not the school as a whole. I seriously doubt the school is lying in their title iv reporting to the department of education. We don’t know how they do their accounting, maybe the school spending that additional $20m counts as revenue to the athletic department…

 

[NorthernVirginiaCane]

This right here. I know most are looking at the football TV contract details only. However, you're not taking into account that the PAC 12 gets a huge amount of money for research grants. California and Stanford leading the way. Looking at the total picture it doesn't make sense for any PAC 12 teams to leave to go to the Big 12.

I would think the good academic schools in the pac12 would love to jettison AZ State, Washington State, etc.

 

[kccanefan]

I would think the good academic schools in the pac12 would love to jettison AZ State, Washington State, etc.

That may be so, but don't see them leaving voluntarily. Each team is getting 150+ Million in research grants. I had heard somewhere that Colorado got close to 300 million in research grant money after joining the Pac 12. Sort of dwarfs the Athletic budget. At the end of the day a lot of people forget these are education institutions. Not sports franchises.

 

[Rellyrell]

Bro you gotta be kidding me right? you’re first link literally cites my link using data from 2019-2020… while my link is the 2021-2022 data

“Methodology: For this piece GOBankingRates used the United States Department of Education’s “Equity in Athletics Data Analysis” (EADA) dataset to find (1) total football revenues; and (2) conference for all NCAA Division I schools all in FY19-20 data (the most recent available).

Your second link, uses the first links data, except it takes a 3yr sample size.

You’re 3rd link doesn’t share any sources or methodology, just says “Brewer’s study calculates what a college team would be worth on the open market if it could be bought and sold like a professional sports franchise. Brewer analyzes each program’s revenues and expenses along with cash-flow adjustments, risk assessments and growth projections.”

Again the Football revenue likely counts donation and other investments directly received FOR FOOTBALL. This is accounting for the athletic program, not the school as a whole. I seriously doubt the school is lying in their title iv reporting to the department of education. We don’t know how they do their accounting, maybe the school spending that additional $20m counts as revenue to the athletic department…

This is where reality hits the fan.

Then all that bull chit this fan base have using for 20 yrs as to the excuses why we couldn’t compete w/ Clemson, Bama, UGA, OSU due to be a small private school w/o the revenue sources that these bigger institutions have has been complete bull chit then.

Pick one.

 

[TooColdToHold]

This is where reality hits the fan.

Then all that bull chit this fan base have using for 20 yrs as to the excuses why we couldn’t compete w/ Clemson, Bama, UGA, OSU due to be a small private school w/o the revenue sources that these bigger institutions have has been complete bull chit then.

Pick one.

That hasn’t been the claim from the fan base. That’s a media narrative. The fans have placed blame on the administration for being unwilling to reinvest in the program compared to the big boys. How do you think things suddenly changed after Herbstreit called them out and embarrassed them? The money being spent now didn’t fall out of the sky.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

1. Yes, supposedly any new membership would trigger renegotiation of the TV contract.

2. Agreed. ND getting extra money would be a no go.

3. Agreed. ND is NOT getting kicked out of its current agreement with the ACC. The ACC is guaranteed ND football and its media $$ if it decides to give up independence and is guaranteed ND's media rights if they leave the ACC.

4. 2020 was the best chance to add ND, but not really. I doubt ND would have given up their beloved independence to play one year of Covid ball. I think they would have taken the loss of one football season (one that was pretty screwed up to begin with anyway) in exchange for staying football independent.

Interesting note, as you mentioned, the latest estimate is ND will get $60 million per year in their next agreement. However, just last year, it was reported that ND mentioned they needed to get AT LEAST $75 million per year on their football contract with NBC to stay independent.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

This could very well be just negotiating through the media, but if true, what does ND decide to do?

1. Not a knock on you personally, but "supposedly" isn't enough for me on this one. There's been a lot of misinformation in the news regarding these media deals without any actual citation to the deals themselves (at least not that I have ever seen). But assuming adding any new member would trigger a mandatory and complete renegotiation of the contract, I'm going to need a thorough explanation on why the ACC didn't just steal UCF and the University of Cincinnati a couple of years ago if for not other reason than to trigger the renegotiation clause. As bad as that deal is for the ACC, I'd take any two solid G5 schools in our geographic footprint at this point if it meant we get to rip up the current deal with ESPN. And if the answer is, "the ACC tried, but got out-maneuvered by the Big 12," then we shouldn't even be wasting a moment talking about the ACC because it's clearly the least competently run and doomed to fall by the wayside.

4. I don't disagree with any of that. It was the ACC's "best" chance, but it still wasn't a compelling pitch. Unless, of course, the ACC could have brought in another school like PSU and then triggered this supposed renegotiation of the contract for crazy numbers.

As far as ND claiming they "need" $75 million, that's posturing. They don't "need" $75K and only get a fraction of that figure now. ND is just trying to maximize the value of the next contract. But assuming they really do "need" $75K, ND will simply take the best offer they can get. Maybe that's $75 million from NBC. Maybe it means the best deal they can get from NBC (and without having to otherwise pay millions in damages for a breach of contract to the ACC). Or, if the SEC or B1G offer ND more, maybe they'll negotiate with said conference and the ACC on a settlement and buyout to join said conference. Or, if they think they can fully join the ACC and trigger this supposed renegotiation clause to get more than NBC offers, maybe they do that. From where I'm standing, the last two seem the most unlikely, though.

 

[Rellyrell]

That hasn’t been the claim from the fan base. That’s a media narrative. The fans have placed blame on the administration for being unwilling to reinvest in the program compared to the big boys. How do you think things suddenly changed after Herbstreit called them out and embarrassed them? The money being spent now didn’t fall out of the sky.

Did u really just say that wasn’t a claim by this fan base?

And wasn’t UHealth involved in this change?

 

[Rellyrell]

Bro you gotta be kidding me right? you’re first link literally cites my link using data from 2019-2020… while my link is the 2021-2022 data

“Methodology: For this piece GOBankingRates used the United States Department of Education’s “Equity in Athletics Data Analysis” (EADA) dataset to find (1) total football revenues; and (2) conference for all NCAA Division I schools all in FY19-20 data (the most recent available).

Your second link, uses the first links data, except it takes a 3yr sample size.

You’re 3rd link doesn’t share any sources or methodology, just says “Brewer’s study calculates what a college team would be worth on the open market if it could be bought and sold like a professional sports franchise. Brewer analyzes each program’s revenues and expenses along with cash-flow adjustments, risk assessments and growth projections.”

Again the Football revenue likely counts donation and other investments directly received FOR FOOTBALL. This is accounting for the athletic program, not the school as a whole. I seriously doubt the school is lying in their title iv reporting to the department of education. We don’t know how they do their accounting, maybe the school spending that additional $20m counts as revenue to the athletic department…

I believe this poster @TimeBum summed it up nicely a couple yrs back regarding revenue posted to the EADA site:

"We aint got no money "

Maybe instead of renting a cropduster, those who are unhappy should start a booster organization. But we would also need an AD willing to accept our over-sized check and then spend it wisely. So...both?

www.canesinsight.com

 

[TooColdToHold]

Did u really just say that wasn’t a claim by this fan base?

And wasn’t UHealth involved in this change?

Yep I said exactly that. The biggest gripe from the fans is lack of commitment from the admin. You might be conflating financial support from the admin with complaints about the bag game. The stats posted by calinative have nothing to do with the under the table bag game.

 

[Rellyrell]

Yep I said exactly that. The biggest gripe from the fans is lack of commitment from the admin. You might be conflating financial support from the admin with complaints about the bag game. The stats posted by calinative have nothing to do with the under the table bag game.

And u’re exactly wrong. There’s a segment of this fan base (myself included) who have went on the offensive calling out a great majority of white cape fans who said this program can’t compete w/ the big boys b/c we don’t have the infrastructure from a donor, student body, or the generated revenue standpoint that these big, public schools have an advantage of. We’ve had MANY arguments excusing the ineptitude of investing in the program under the guise of not having the money to do so.

What r u talking about? @Cribby even posted the following: Miami doesn’t have money “ might be the biggest conspiracy theory going , and that’s coming from me. This was not some **** media driven narrative; the media QUESTIONED our commitment to football, so why would they drive home the counter that we’re broke? That bull chit came from higher ups & alums who defended the ineptitude that was going on. Don’t tell me chit that I’ve been in the trenches arguing about for **** near 5 yrs on this very site.

 

[Calinative]

I believe this poster @TimeBum summed it up nicely a couple yrs back regarding revenue posted to the EADA site:

"We aint got no money "

Maybe instead of renting a cropduster, those who are unhappy should start a booster organization. But we would also need an AD willing to accept our over-sized check and then spend it wisely. So...both?

www.canesinsight.com

That poster did not in any way refute revenue reported. He specifically was basically refuting expenses reporting (which is what I said also). Also he says it isn’t title IX reporting to the EADA, which is true, but it is Title IV reporting required from any college that received federal student financial aid. What exactly would make the numbers look better if reported due to Title IX instead of Title IV?

And if that poster is saying the only numbers that can be trusted are IRS reports, then it still makes ZERO sense to trust any other reported numbers for Miami over the source I provided. I mean in my initial post I did write it was the best data I could find. And I still believe it is.

What story you want the numbers to tell, we can argue/debate all day. The only point I’m making though is when it comes to conference realignment, the idea that our athletic department wouldn’t be as desirable as these peers is ridiculous. I’ve shown the media data (including one source you provided that has us 5th among non SEC/B10 schools, when mine had us 6th) and the financial data….

Point is, aside from Notre Dame who is clearly above everyone else, we are right there with Clemson, FSU, Oregon, and like I said earlier without question above UVA and likely above UNC too.