MEGA Conference Realignment and lawsuits Megathread: Stories, Tales, Lies, and Exaggerations

[kccanefan]

But the SEC network is already in South Carolina. Clemson doesn't expand the footprint at all.

I think very few schools left grow the pie. Texas did. USC did. Notre Dame will.

The only way it makes sense for the SEC and Big Ten to go beyond 16 each is if they want to get rid of the NCAA completely, and maybe that's the plan. But I doubt it.

The SEC is in South Carolina already. However, the B1G is not. Some of this also preventing the other conference to expand their footprint into your territory.

 

[Yoyo82]

The SEC is in South Carolina already. However, the B1G is not. Some of this also preventing the other conference to expand their footprint into your territory.

Exactly. Which is why I think both SEC and B1G would want Miami. The SEC would want us to keep the B1G out of Florida (and the southeast in general) and the B1G would want us to keep the SEC from owning the whole state.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

Crap. I hate being objective. But...

UNC is very, very attractive. Flagship school of the largest state that isn't associated with the SEC or B1G. Legitimate national brand, Michael Jordan affiliation, large and loyal alumni base, large 3rd party fan base, great licensing revenue, fantastic academics, large athletic budget, geographically perfect for BOTH the SEC and B1G, and a lot more. If I were a conference commissioner I would probably (pains me to say this) have them as my #1 choice out of the ACC. You have to think longterm, and UNC is a place where the TV money would not go wasted. Whichever of the two conferences does NOT get UNC is going to suffer for it.

Virginia is being underrated in all this too. Another school with a high ceiling, good recruiting location (imagine UVA in the B1G or SEC recruiting the DMV), incredible academics, location, alumni, DC power-brokers, flagship of a major state, where newfound money could really launch them.

I think both those schools are the rare perfect fit for both conferences in every way, which may make them chess pieces.

 

[Fluffhead]

Crap. I hate being objective. But...

UNC is very, very attractive. Flagship school of the largest state that isn't associated with the SEC or B1G. Legitimate national brand, Michael Jordan affiliation, large and loyal alumni base, large 3rd party fan base, great licensing revenue, fantastic academics, large athletic budget, geographically perfect for BOTH the SEC and B1G, and a lot more. If I were a conference commissioner I would probably (pains me to say this) have them as my #1 choice out of the ACC. You have to think longterm, and UNC is a place where the TV money would not go wasted. Whichever of the two conferences does NOT get UNC is going to suffer for it.

Virginia is being underrated in all this too. Another school with a high ceiling, good recruiting location (imagine UVA in the B1G or SEC recruiting the DMV), incredible academics, location, alumni, DC power-brokers, flagship of a major state, where newfound money could really launch them.

I think both those schools are the rare perfect fit for both conferences in every way, which may make them chess pieces.

And NC is a rapidly growing state both in population and businesses moving there.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Crap. I hate being objective. But...

UNC is very, very attractive. Flagship school of the largest state that isn't associated with the SEC or B1G. Legitimate national brand, Michael Jordan affiliation, large and loyal alumni base, large 3rd party fan base, great licensing revenue, fantastic academics, large athletic budget, geographically perfect for BOTH the SEC and B1G, and a lot more. If I were a conference commissioner I would probably (pains me to say this) have them as my #1 choice out of the ACC. You have to think longterm, and UNC is a place where the TV money would not go wasted. Whichever of the two conferences does NOT get UNC is going to suffer for it.

Virginia is being underrated in all this too. Another school with a high ceiling, good recruiting location (imagine UVA in the B1G or SEC recruiting the DMV), incredible academics, location, alumni, DC power-brokers, flagship of a major state, where newfound money could really launch them.

I think both those schools are the rare perfect fit for both conferences in every way, which may make them chess pieces.

I agree UNC is an attractive target--as an overall institution, they've got a ton going for them.

But per the chart posted a couple pages ago, their football viewership numbers are pretty paltry--last in the ACC, and very nearly last among all teams in the ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12 combined.

So it really depends on what the SEC/B1G prioritize. If the main driver for conference realignment is football, then that really knocks UNC down a few pegs.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

I agree UNC is an attractive target--as an overall institution, they've got a ton going for them.

But per the chart posted a couple pages ago, their football viewership numbers are pretty paltry--last in the ACC, and very nearly last among all teams in the ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12 combined.

So it really depends on what the SEC/B1G prioritize. If the main driver for conference realignment is football, then that really knocks UNC down a few pegs.

Their schedule would get better, their brand would get better, they'd be on more accessible platforms where you can actually find the games, great TV market, they'd have a ton of money to improve the product, and as WSP said the alumni and population is there.

Gotta skate to where the puck is going here, not to where it is.

 

[Hold My Beer]

Clemson and FSU want in the SEC

Those two are and have been joined at the hip

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Their schedule would get better, their brand would get better, they'd be on more accessible platforms where you can actually find the games, great TV market, they'd have a ton of money to improve the product, and WSP said the alumni and population is there.

Gotta skate to where the puck is going here, not to where it is.

To a degree, yes.
But the fact is that UNC just isn't a football school. Its bread and butter is basketball; has been that way since the 50s, and it will remain that way. Their football brand won't magically get a ton better because they play Ohio State and Michigan (or Tennessee and UGA) on the regular.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

To a degree, yes.
But the fact is that UNC just isn't a football school. Its bread and butter is basketball; has been that way since the 50s, and it will remain that way. Their football brand won't magically get a ton better because they play Ohio State and Michigan (or Tennessee and UGA) on the regular.

I think it will. They've been committed to elevating football for a good while now, ever since Butch. They've had some great recruiting and big seasons. They pay. They want it. This would be the catalyst. So much potential. More upside than almost anyone else out there IMO.

 

[kccanefan]

UNC and UVA won't be left out of the big two. Both are flagship schools in decent size markets that neither conference has a footprint in.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

I think it will. They've been committed to elevating football for a good while now, ever since Butch. They've had some great recruiting and big seasons. They pay. They want it. This would be the catalyst. So much potential. More upside than almost anyone else out there IMO.

And their TV ratings have still been in the basement of all ACC, PAC 10, and Big 12 schools, despite a couple top-20 seasons, solid recruiting, and relatively big-name coaches. While you can cheerlead and pontificate about the what-ifs of moving them to a different conference, the existing viewership numbers mean something--they're significant data points that can't be ignored or brushed aside.

It'd be different if they were middle-of-the-pack, even. But they're not. They're on same level as Cinci, Kansas, and Houston, for crying out loud.

No doubt the school wants to be successful on the field. But the students, alumni, and larger fan base just don't value football as much as they do b-ball.
To be clear, I'm not poo-pooing them as a candidate for conference expansion--they'll certainly be in the mix; they're not going to get hung out to dry. I just don't think they're the #1 choice if football is the main driver of expansion.

 

[Ispyin]

Clemson and FSU are locks for the SEC imo. Oregon and Oregon State to b12. wash to the b10.

There is no way Oregon and Washington are separated man. Jfc

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

And their TV ratings have still been in the basement of all ACC, PAC 10, and Big 12 schools, despite a couple top-20 seasons, solid recruiting, and relatively big-name coaches. While you can cheerlead and pontificate about the what-ifs of moving them to a different conference, the existing viewership numbers mean something--they're significant data points that can't be ignored or brushed aside.

It'd be different if they were middle-of-the-pack, even. But they're not. They're on same level as Cinci, Kansas, and Houston, for crying out loud.

No doubt the school wants to be successful on the field. But the students, alumni, and larger fan base just don't value football as much as they do b-ball.
To be clear, I'm not poo-pooing them as a candidate for conference expansion--they'll certainly be in the mix; they're not going to get hung out to dry. I just don't think they're the #1 choice if football is the main driver of expansion.

You're repeating yourself. Why? Yes, I get they haven't been a great draw. Rome wasn't built in a day. I think the decline of the ACC has been a part of it, I think the crappiness and inaccessibility of the ACC TV platforms have been a part of it, I think the conference leadership has been a problem that does not help a team build (not maintain) a brand. I think there are a lot of outside factors.

As I said, and now you are forcing me to repeat myself which I loathe, you need to make a 50 year projection. The Gretzky analogy.

I guess you hate UNC as you live there. Probably how I feel about UF. That's ok. You can hate all you want. And you can think they could never, ever be anything in football and no one cares about their program. That's cool.

I completely disagree. And let's get down to brass tax, I guarantee you that UNC will be asked to join either the SEC or the B1G, or in my opinion, both at some point in the future. It's a binary situation, really. If you feel differently that they will fade into obscurity in some lower conference, that's your prerogative.

 

[kccanefan]

You're repeating yourself. Why? Yes, I get they haven't been a great draw. Rome wasn't built in a day. I think the decline of the ACC has been a part of it, I think the crappiness and inaccessibility of the ACC TV platforms have been a part of it, I think the conference leadership has been a problem that does not help a team build (not maintain) a brand. I think there are a lot of outside factors.

As I said, and now you are forcing me to repeat myself which I loathe, you need to make a 50 year projection. The Gretzky analogy.

I guess you hate UNC as you live there. Probably how I feel about UF. That's ok. You can hate all you want. And you can think they could never, ever be anything in football and no one cares about their program. That's cool.

I completely disagree. And let's get down to brass tax, I guarantee you that UNC will be asked to join either the SEC or the B1G, or in my opinion, both at some point in the future. It's a binary situation, really. If you feel differently that they will fade into obscurity in some lower conference, that's your prerogative.

I believe both of you have a point. UNC will be asked to join simply due to their location and neither being part of the SEC or B1G TV market. However, it won't be due to their football program. The B1G invited Rutgers for goodness sake. I believe he's saying that UNC won't be the first those two look at if football is the driving force. There's others above them.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

You're repeating yourself. Why? Yes, I get they haven't been a great draw. Rome wasn't built in a day. I think the decline of the ACC has been a part of it, I think the crappiness and inaccessibility of the ACC TV platforms have been a part of it, I think the conference leadership has been a problem that does not help a team build (not maintain) a brand. I think there are a lot of outside factors.

As I said, and now you are forcing me to repeat myself which I loathe, you need to make a 50 year projection. The Gretzky analogy.

I guess you hate UNC as you live there. Probably how I feel about UF. That's ok. You can hate all you want. And you can think they could never, ever be anything in football and no one cares about their program. That's cool.

I completely disagree. And let's get down to brass tax, I guarantee you that UNC will be asked to join either the SEC or the B1G, or in my opinion, both at some point in the future. It's a binary situation, really. If you feel differently that they will fade into obscurity in some lower conference, that's your prerogative.

You needn't have repeated yourself. i understood you the first 3 times. You want to ignore all previous data and make projections based on your fantasies. Cool.

And you don't seem to understand my argument as much as you think you do. I've stated twice now that UNC is obviously an attractive candidate and will surely be among the teams chosen for expansion. The only point where you and I seem to disagree--and apparently deeply so--is in your insistence that UNC would be *the top choice.*
.
FWIW, I actually quite like UNC. I've been a fan since I was a kid. I've lived in the Triangle area for 15 years now, first in Chapel Hill for 5 and have lived in Durham now for 10.

I know quite a bit about the school and its administration. I worked there for a couple years, and I go to games regularly--went to the UM/UNC game a few weeks ago, in fact.

So I'm actually speaking from a place of knowledge on this. As a fan of the school and someone who knows the culture of the area, I'm keenly aware of the lack of solid interest in UNC football.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

I believe both of you have a point. UNC will be asked to join simply due to their location and neither being part of the SEC or B1G TV market. However, it won't be due to their football program. The B1G invited Rutgers for goodness sake. I believe he's saying that UNC won't be the first those two look at if football is the driving force. There's others above them.

MONEY is the driving force. And UNC is a potential ATM IMO.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

You needn't have repeated yourself. i understood you the first 3 times. You want to ignore all previous data and make projections based on your fantasies. Cool.

And you don't seem to understand my argument as much as you think you do. I've stated twice now that UNC is obviously an attractive candidate and will surely be among the teams chosen for expansion. The only point where you and I seem to disagree--and apparently deeply so--is in your insistence that UNC would be *the top choice.*
.
FWIW, I actually quite like UNC. I've been a fan since I was a kid. I've lived in the Triangle area for 15 years now, first in Chapel Hill for 5 and have lived in Durham now for 10.

I know quite a bit about the school and its administration. I worked there for a couple years, and I go to games regularly--went to the UM/UNC game a few weeks ago, in fact.

So I'm actually speaking from a place of knowledge on this. As a fan of the school and someone who knows the culture of the area, I'm keenly aware of the lack of solid interest in UNC football.

No, you just conveniently misquoted me, which is uncool. You're also being a little ****y! Please don't twist what I write, it's lazy. I said UNC would be "my top choice" if I were a commissioner. Not that they would be "the" top choice. Massive difference, no? Feel free to check. I called them a chess piece because, again, I think they will be one of the key teams that both conferences will have high on their wish lists, while some other top schools are more of a natural fit for one or the other. They are one of the schools that besides having intrinsic value, will be considered important to keep away from the other conference. That increases their desirability. You're not thinking big enough, you're not seeing the whole field. You're not thinking far enough down the road.

And I think you kind of just summed it up well for both of us, even though it was inadvertent. You're completely invested in "previous data" as you keep bringing up, living in the past, while I am trying to project what the future could hold with a seismic change being elevated into the B1G or SEC would mean, the new NC demographics, geographic income patterns, business growth within the state, the future of the sport, travel geography, upside when access to the benefits of a new conference are applied, licensing, brand, marketing alignments (Jordan brand) ten years from now, as the NC TV markets grow and UNC takes advantage of their new revenue and status by leveraging their status as the cemented flagship of the state, while other schools such as Duke and Wake get left out.

I'll mention the Gretzky analogy for the 3rd time with hopes and prayers that it will stick one of these times. You need to skate to where you think the puck is going, not to where it is.

I'm glad you're a UNC fan. That makes one of us.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

No, you just conveniently misquoted me, which is uncool. You're also being a little ****y! Please don't twist what I write, it's lazy. I said UNC would be "my top choice" if I were a commissioner. Not that they would be "the" top choice. Massive difference, no? Feel free to check. I called them a chess piece because, again, I think they will be one of the key teams that both conferences will have high on their wish lists, while some other top schools are more of a natural fit for one or the other. They are one of the schools that besides having intrinsic value, will be considered important to keep away from the other conference. That increases their desirability. You're not thinking big enough, you're not seeing the whole field. You're not thinking far enough down the road.

And I think you kind of just summed it up well for both of us, even though it was inadvertent. You're completely invested in "previous data" as you keep bringing up, living in the past, while I am trying to project what the future could hold with a seismic change being elevated into the B1G or SEC would mean, the new NC demographics, geographic income patterns, business growth within the state, the future of the sport, travel geography, upside when access to the benefits of a new conference are applied, licensing, brand, marketing alignments (Jordan brand) ten years from now, as the NC TV markets grow and UNC takes advantage of their new revenue and status by leveraging their status as the cemented flagship of the state, while other schools such as Duke and Wake get left out.

I'll mention the Gretzky analogy for the 3rd time with hopes and prayers that it will stick one of these times. You need to skate to where you think the puck is going, not to where it is.

I'm glad you're a UNC fan. That makes one of us.

JFC, dude. You are one self-important ***.

Good talk.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

JFC, dude. You are one self-important ***.

Good talk.

Classy. Project much? That's what one would write if they just realized their entire argument fell apart and they were too small of a person to admit it. Well done. You sound like one of those pompous whiny research triangle wine and cheese types. Don't ever move. You're home.

Good talk.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Classy. Project much? That's what one would write if they just realized their entire argument fell apart and they were too small of a person to admit it. Well done. You sound like one of those pompous whiny research triangle wine and cheese types. Don't ever move. You're home.

Good talk.

Funny thing is that you’re too obnoxious to recognize your own projection over the course of several posts. You misrepresented my argument (or more than likely just didn’t bother to read thoroughly, because you’re too enamored of seeing your own typed words on a screen to deign to read anyone else’s post). Then you repeat your same tired drivel a few times. Then you falsely accuse me of misquoting you. Then you resort to condescending asshattery.

You seem like a really well-adjusted guy—not a keyboard warrior prick at all.

Settle down, Francis.