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Commit This Weekend?

TheOriginalCane said:
Actually, the novel had the wrap-around. It starts in the middle. I think the BALANCE is a bit stronger in the movie, between the three time periods, but the storyline is there in the novel. I've had this conversation with multiple people on the board, I had a Management class at UM where our "textbook" was The Godfather (novel). No joke.

The reason I like I as much (if not better) than II is because of the classic time period of the mafia, when there was still some honor and intent behind their practices. I am not nearly as enamored of the mafia of the "60s and 70s and beyond", it is also the reason why I was not as much of a fan of III.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Hyman Roth and Moe Green and Frankie Five Angels, but to me, the decline of omerta and honor in II was depressing. And I think Sonny's storyline, while brief, is completely emblematic of an ongoing problem that the mafia had, the hothead who can't keep things under control for the sake of the business.

Plus, there were just a few extra ALL-TIME CLASSIC Godfather moments in I more than in II.

---Bonasera asking for his favor
---Luca Brasi practicing his speech
---"YOU CAN ACT LIKE A MAN!"
---Michael describing his father to Kay
---Jack Woltz and his infamous double-racial-slurs
---The horse head
---Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes
---The worthlessness of Fredo when Vito is shot
---"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."
---The high drama of Michael protecting Vito at the hospital, including Enzo the Baker (who was the subject of the OTHER big "Connie's wedding" favor, shown in the book but not in the movie)
---Michael's meeting with Sollozzo and McCluskey
---Michael's offer to Apollonia's father
---Sonny's fight with Carlo
---Sonny's shooting at the tollbooth
---"It was Barzini."
---"You're not a wartime consigliere, Tom."
---"Don't ever take sides against the family."
---The OG "settling of all old Corleone family business."
---Michael assuring Connie that he would not kill Carlo.
---Closing the door on Kay.


Come on, now, every one of those elements is ******* CLASSIC.

That's what puts I above II for ME PERSONALLY.
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Classic lines. Some of the best of all-time in any movie ever made. And you are correct about the novel, which is great in its own right.
“Leave the gun, take the cannoli” was apparently ad libbed by the actor who played Clemenza. Who, in a classic case of career sabotage, turned down the role in II, forcing Coppola and Puzo to create Frank Pentageli, with the one additional line about Clemenza being killed.

My favorite line in I is when Jack Waltz is talking down to Tom Hagan and says he doesn’t care ”how many dago, guinea, ***, greaseballs come outta the woodwork…”. when Hagen explains he is German-Irish, Waltz switches ethnic slurs without missing a beat to “my *****-mick friend”.
 
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PAPACANE5X said:
Zaquan Patterson is making a return trip to Michigan who he and his mother were impressed by as well as trip to Auburn. This one doesn’t seem to be a slam dunk as speculated unfortunately
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Patterson was a stronger UM lean than Trader was…. That’s before Trader committed. It would take a brinks truck for him to go elsewhere. Let him enjoy his vacations with momma.
 
AtlAtty said:
Classic lines. Some of the best of all-time in any movie ever made. And you are correct about the novel, which is great in its own right.
“Leave the gun, take the cannoli” was apparently ad libbed by the actor who played Clemenza. Who, in a classic case of career sabotage, turned down the role in II, forcing Coppola and Puzo to create Frank Pentageli, with the one additional line about Clemenza being killed.

My favorite line in I is when Jack Waltz is talking down to Tom Hagan and says he doesn’t care ”how many dago, guinea, ***, greaseballs come outta the woodwork…”. when Hagen explains he is German-Irish, Waltz switches ethnic slurs without missing a beat to “my *****-mick friend”.
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Not trying to nitpick, but "leave the gun" was in the book and "take the cannoli" was improvised. Big mistake by that actor not to appear in II.

And, yes, that Woltz-Hagen exchange is one of my all-time favorite bits in any movie at any time. I have frequently called friends of mine "my *****-mick friend" in tribute. Complete classic scene on every level.

I've tried to explain to people how the racial insults and the "she was the greatest piece of *** I ever had" lines are completely emblematic of Hollywood studios at the time, the conflicts between "mass market media" and blatant racism/discrimination, as well as the "wholesome depiction" of movie stars compared to the horrible casting-couch type stuff behind the scenes.

******* classic. We can assume that Godfather accurately depicted mobsters, but we can GUARANTEE that the novel and films nailed it on the entertainment industry and the politicians.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Not trying to nitpick, but "leave the gun" was in the book and "take the cannoli" was improvised. Big mistake by that actor not to appear in II.

And, yes, that Woltz-Hagen exchange is one of my all-time favorite bits in any movie at any time. I have frequently called friends of mine "my *****-mick friend" in tribute. Complete classic scene on every level.

I've tried to explain to people how the racial insults and the "she was the greatest piece of *** I ever had" lines are completely emblematic of Hollywood studios at the time, the conflicts between "mass market media" and blatant racism/discrimination, as well as the "wholesome depiction" of movie stars compared to the horrible casting-couch type stuff behind the scenes.

******* classic. We can assume that Godfather accurately depicted mobsters, but we can GUARANTEE that the novel and films nailed it on the entertainment industry and the politicians.
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Good call on Clemenza’s line.
II went harder after the politicians with Senator Geary. That they killed the prostitute to gain leverage over Geary is akin to the horse head for Waltz.
And yet somehow we come out of those movies liking the Corleones.

In I you will recall that the judges and politicians sent presents but did not attend Connie and Carlo’s wedding. Everyone seemingly understanding that you had to keep some distance.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Not...really...

And it wasn't really a sequel. Both Godfather "I" and "II" are from the same novel. So it was just a two-part adaptation.
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I agree 💯. Here is a list of better sequels.
  • Godfather 2
  • Terminator 2
  • Wrath of Khan
  • X-Men 2
  • Spider-man 2
  • Blade Runner 2049
  • Captain America Winter Soldier
  • Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Those X-Men movies were meh as **** they were more like Hugh Jackman and the others.
 
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jrock2332 said:
I agree 💯. Here is a list of better sequels.
  • Godfather 2
  • Terminator 2
  • Wrath of Khan
  • X-Men 2
  • Spider-man 2
  • Blade Runner 2049
  • Captain America Winter Soldier
  • Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Those X-Men movies were meh as **** they were more like Hugh Jackman and the others.
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Agreed on T2 and Khan.

I struggle on comic book movies (X2, Spidey 2, Cap 2), as the first installment always requires an origin story, and the second one is less a "sequel" than it is an ongoing storyline. Most of the Marvel Comics have been published monthly for decades, so that's just "neverending story". Plus, Cap 2 is a completely different movie than First Avenger, due to the suspended animation.

Two Towers was the second part of a trilogy. And Tolkien stories are notoriously slow to get moving.

I guess I just view "sequels" as "hey, the first one was awesome, do you want to make another one?"

Godfather had the novel to pull from, and LOTR had the Tolkien books as source material (comic book movies too).

T2 is legit, Khan is legit, Blade Runner is legit, and nobody was quite certain that Star Wars would be a blockbuster. Posssssssibly Aliens. Also possible to argue Road Warrior (Mad Max 2) and Evil Dead 2, though those last two movies had much larger budgets than the originals (same as T2).

Using my own definitions, I probably cannot include my own personal favorite "second movie", From Russia With Love, which was far better than Dr. No.

And I really really liked Temple of Doom, though it was technically a prequel.
 
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JHallCanes said:
To your trilogy point though, that middle movie gets the advantage where the story groundwork is laid, but also they don’t have to stick the landing

So they can usually just go wall to wall wildness
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Yup.

I edited my post to add in a couple of new ones for consideration, such as Aliens, Road Warrior, and Evil Dead 2, which are PROPER sequels that had not yet contemplated whether there would be a third movie (or fourth or fifth).
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Lucas had a rough outline of 9 installments, but nothing solid to work from, like a novel. As well as uncertainty as to whether Star Wars would succeed.
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I know he said episodes 1-3 were planned ahead of time but I’ve always been skeptical of that. Seemed Forced to me (get it?) after the fact but I dunno
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Lucas had a rough outline of 9 installments, but nothing solid to work from, like a novel. As well as uncertainty as to whether Star Wars would succeed.
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From what TrumpyCane has read he might’ve had a general idea but the success of the original basically threw everything out and he came up with a completely different premise

He hired Leigh Brackett to write the script after the success of the original. Read if the OG was a small hit Lucas would have adapted Splinter of Minds Eye

Does make sense because of all the massive plot holes, Luke/Leia relationship, etc
 
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TRick72 said:
The best sequels happen in ****…
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IMG_9302.jpeg
 
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jrock2332 said:
I agree 💯. Here is a list of better sequels.
  • Godfather 2
  • Terminator 2
  • Wrath of Khan
  • X-Men 2
  • Spider-man 2
  • Blade Runner 2049
  • Captain America Winter Soldier
  • Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Those X-Men movies were meh as **** they were more like Hugh Jackman and the others.
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Terminator 2 (also the best film ever made)
Aliens
Empire Strikes Back (by a MILE the best Star Wars film)
 
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