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Collins Acheampong???

P-Tizzle said:
Then the evals of Michigan sucks and for Moss the evals of ND, Bama, Oregon suck too. Here’s something that you twats have to understand or else you continue to look foolish….ready?

Clowning on Mario for his “evals” isn’t as big of a dunk as you all think. All MAJOR programs offer these guys, recruit them, invite them to campus, and waste precious resources on them.

Instead of evals, maybe it’s the development? Or in a lot of cases, it’s FREAKING HARD TO PREDICT THE FUTURE AND TO PROJECT 17 year olds.
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You realize that Oregon “eval” of Moss you’re using was from Mario and not Lanning?? So Moss was a good eval because Mario recruited him at both schools he was at in the same year??

Also, going to a recruits 247 page and just looking at their offers doesn’t mean those schools were actively recruiting them. ND was on him the summer before his Senior year and when he didn’t take the next step physically his senior season they cooled off.

As for putting Bama on there because it’s the 5th team that comes up on his list LOL!! 247 list the teams alphabetically after it list the schools the recruit has taken an OV too and before listing the schools alphabetically who have shown interest but do no extend an offer. For Moss it came down to Mario (whether at Miami or Oregon) vs Riley at USC, you know the guy who everyone says hates defense and can’t recruit that side of the ball??

As for snatching Acheampong from Michigan and their “great evals” we only flipped him when he had a devastating injury his senior year and Michigan ghosted him. This would be fine if it was a one off but Mario has signed atleast 1 guy every class that we know of who's had a devastating senior year injury that no other program wants to touch, Khamauri Rogers (can’t blame him for this one as it was a Manny guy) Collins, Isiah Thomas and now Amari Wallace. Maybe you don’t count injuries as part of “evals” but it’s still a wild strategy that has yet to pay off.
 
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TRick72 said:
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You realize that Oregon “eval” of Moss you’re using was from Mario and not Lanning?? So Moss was a good eval because Mario recruited him at both schools he was at in the same year??

Also, going to a recruits 247 page and just looking at their offers doesn’t mean those schools were actively recruiting them. ND was on him the summer before his Senior year and when he didn’t take the next step physically his senior season they cooled off.

As for putting Bama on there because it’s the 5th team that comes up on his list LOL!! 247 list the teams alphabetically after it list the schools the recruit has taken an OV too and before listing the schools alphabetically who have shown interest but do no extend an offer. For Moss it came down to Mario (whether at Miami or Oregon) vs Riley at USC, you know the guy who everyone says hates defense and can’t recruit that side of the ball??

As for snatching Acheampong from Michigan and their “great evals” we only flipped him when he had a devastating injury his senior year and Michigan ghosted him. This would be fine if it was a one off but Mario has signed atleast 1 guy every class that we know of who's had a devastating senior year injury that no other program wants to touch, Khamauri Rogers (can’t blame him for this one as it was a Manny guy) Collins, Isiah Thomas and now Amari Wallace. Maybe you don’t count injuries as part of “evals” but it’s still a wild strategy that has yet to pay off.
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Gotta be one of the longest posts you’ve ever done.
 
TRick72 said:
View attachment 314911

You realize that Oregon “eval” of Moss you’re using was from Mario and not Lanning?? So Moss was a good eval because Mario recruited him at both schools he was at in the same year??

Also, going to a recruits 247 page and just looking at their offers doesn’t mean those schools were actively recruiting them. ND was on him the summer before his Senior year and when he didn’t take the next step physically his senior season they cooled off.

As for putting Bama on there because it’s the 5th team that comes up on his list LOL!! 247 list the teams alphabetically after it list the schools the recruit has taken an OV too and before listing the schools alphabetically who have shown interest but do no extend an offer. For Moss it came down to Mario (whether at Miami or Oregon) vs Riley at USC, you know the guy who everyone says hates defense and can’t recruit that side of the ball??

As for snatching Acheampong from Michigan and their “great evals” we only flipped him when he had a devastating injury his senior year and Michigan ghosted him. This would be fine if it was a one off but Mario has signed atleast 1 guy every class that we know of who's had a devastating senior year injury that no other program wants to touch, Khamauri Rogers (can’t blame him for this one as it was a Manny guy) Collins, Isiah Thomas and now Amari Wallace. Maybe you don’t count injuries as part of “evals” but it’s still a wild strategy that has yet to pay off.
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1. So I was right, Archeampong was a Michigan recruit prior to Mario flipping him.

2. According to Moss, Lanning re-offered him once he got to Oregon. But everyone knew Moss would follow Mario because of the relationship.

3. Moss commits to Miami on Jan 8 2022, but took an official visit to Alabama vs LSU on Nov 6…..but Bama didn’t want him? https://www.si.com/college/alabama/...-finalists-alabama-visit-and-decision-factors

Injury or not, Archeampong was a top 100 player and more than Mario wanted him.

I get it, these guys sucked for us but they were heavily recruited
 
TRick72 said:
View attachment 314911

You realize that Oregon “eval” of Moss you’re using was from Mario and not Lanning?? So Moss was a good eval because Mario recruited him at both schools he was at in the same year??

Also, going to a recruits 247 page and just looking at their offers doesn’t mean those schools were actively recruiting them. ND was on him the summer before his Senior year and when he didn’t take the next step physically his senior season they cooled off.

As for putting Bama on there because it’s the 5th team that comes up on his list LOL!! 247 list the teams alphabetically after it list the schools the recruit has taken an OV too and before listing the schools alphabetically who have shown interest but do no extend an offer. For Moss it came down to Mario (whether at Miami or Oregon) vs Riley at USC, you know the guy who everyone says hates defense and can’t recruit that side of the ball??

As for snatching Acheampong from Michigan and their “great evals” we only flipped him when he had a devastating injury his senior year and Michigan ghosted him. This would be fine if it was a one off but Mario has signed atleast 1 guy every class that we know of who's had a devastating senior year injury that no other program wants to touch, Khamauri Rogers (can’t blame him for this one as it was a Manny guy) Collins, Isiah Thomas and now Amari Wallace. Maybe you don’t count injuries as part of “evals” but it’s still a wild strategy that has yet to pay off.
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And…

Are You Mad Tv Land GIF by YoungerTV
 
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AtrainCane said:
But none of them are in the Luke Nichol thread saying anything about THAT eval. Fckng crickets. That kid is a top 25 talent that was rated a 3 star and we were on him a long time ago.
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Community note: Luke Nickel is (currently) the composite 252 ranked talent. Not sure if typo or if OP just disagrees with the entire industry.
 
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P-Tizzle said:
1. So I was right, Archeampong was a Michigan recruit prior to Mario flipping him.

2. According to Moss, Lanning re-offered him once he got to Oregon. But everyone knew Moss would follow Mario because of the relationship.

3. Moss commits to Miami on Jan 8 2022, but took an official visit to Alabama vs LSU on Nov 6…..but Bama didn’t want him? https://www.si.com/college/alabama/...-finalists-alabama-visit-and-decision-factors

Injury or not, Archeampong was a top 100 player and more than Mario wanted him.

I get it, these guys sucked for us but they were heavily recruited
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1. No one disputes he was a Michigan commit. I explained why they no longer wanted him in their class which was that he was seriously injured which is part of the evaluation process. They adjusted theirs, we didn’t.

2. It’s customary for an incoming coach with little time before ESD to reoffer the previous coaches targets/commits. Mario did it here which is why we give him a pass for his first class.

3. If I’m not mistaken he set an official to bama for November 21 in the summer after he visited there in June 21 but it was cancelled. I can not find any article or site (247,On3) that has him officially visiting Bama as well as some of the others schools he thought he was going to visit that upcoming fall when he gave that interview on Sept 2, 21 in the article you linked.

Again, I never said Arch wasn’t a top recruit at one point, same as was Cyrus. But like the injury changed the eval on Arch in his senior season, the evals on Cyrus changed once his senior season began and he didn’t take that next step that many were projecting. Part of being good at evals is adapting when the information changes not stubbornly sticking to an outdated one.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Here’s a fundamental difference:

1. Those players u named at Oregon? They all r riding the bench b/c there’s better players ahead of them on the roster, as Lanning poached the portal.

2. Dowdell transferred out immediately b/c he wasn’t surpassing Bucky Irving, Whittington, or Jordan James. Novosad had to sit behind Bo Nix, & then Lanning brought in Gabriel & Moore.

3. Great recruiters over recruit, as it weeds out those who don’t belong or can’t compete. The problem w/ Miami thus far is that both our HS, AND Portal recruiting has been subpar, & I’ve already laid out the tangible stats verifying this.

4. There’s not one elite HC in the world who recruits at a 100% clip, so I’m not sure why this point keeps being made as posters r trying to compare our classes vs. The UGAs, Bamas, Oregon’s of the world. The elite teams r hitting at 33%+ EVERY cycle all the way to the portal. Mario here at Miami is now at 22%, which is y we’re constantly saying every year “we have to hit the portal hard.” We’re recruiting like a bucket w/ a hole in it.

5. The only reason this team wasn’t a 7-5 team this yr was b/c to Mario’s credit, he knocked it out the ball park w/ Cam. Cam was even better than advertised. W/o Ward, there’s no heroic comeback against Cal, VT. We don’t win against UL.

Now we’re back to square one, as we’ve lost a ton of production, & have ? marks around a lot of position. Collin was an eval take, the HS he played for was known for academic excellence, not sports, & the competition he faced was subpar. His natural tools (pause) was enticing, & w/ staff put together, it was alleged they would help him develop. Unfortunately, it was a miss, it happens, but what’s not OK r the continued misses.
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"We're recruiting like a bucket w/ a hole in it" .

I knew we came from the same loins.

Joe Dirt Brother GIF
 
rberryjr said:
Not to rag on moss but he can’t get burn at Portland state. Yikes! Gotta be the worst eval/development of all time
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DUDE.

HO LEE SHEIT.

Is it odd to be genuinely concerned for the guy? Health/mental/ love for the game? Or did we over evaluate what his frame could carry? Yeah, this caught me by surprise fellas.
 
Rellyrell said:
No, portal IS the context; but, fair game. Let’s go back to HS recruiting only. Since U used Oregon as ur example, from
2022-2024: Lanning is hitting, on avg. 40% on his recruits per class thus far which includes guys who have transferred out or get zero PT.

Mario thus far?
Class of 2022:
Bissainthe, Moten, Cooper

Class of 2023:
Mauigoa, Bain, Fletcher, Brown, Bryant, Aguirre, Williams, Joseph

Class of 2024:
Bell, Lofton, Pruitt, Frédérique, McConathy, Lyle, Patterson, Trader

These r the players that have seen PT & not hit the portal as of today

Class of 2022 HS recruiting:
3/15 or 20%

Class of 2023 HS recruiting:
8/26 or 31%

Class of 2024 HS recruiting:
*Early projections, but still time to develop or earn PT:
8/28 or 28.6%

Either way we slice the pie, it can be HS recruiting only, HS + transfer, transfers only, we’re not in the upper tier. We need to be at roughly a 33% (preferably 35%) hit rate per class. Right now, if I included Mario’s HS + Portal rating of guys who have 2+ yrs of eligibility, that **** is at 22%, fam.

So yes, it’s true even the elite recruiters have misevaluations, that’s not rocket science. If every 5* or 4* star guy panned out, then the NFL would have every 5* or 4* kid. However, what the elite program do have r either 1/3 or 2/5 successful/contributors per class & supplemental that missing 2/3 or 3/5 via the portal. That’s how u get a 3rd yr coach have a 2-3 deep roster, which is y I said by year 3, that’s when we’re supposed to see the change.

Right now? We’re back stating “not enough bodies, we gotta attack the portal.” That’s not good heading into yr 4.
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I don't know what I hate more, that you made me look up Oregon's recruiting classes or that I have enough free time to actually do it. But I am with @P-Tizzle here.

The Oregon comparison is hilarious comparison for a number of reasons:

1. Out of all of Miami's contributors from the 2022 class (McCoy, Horton, Bissainthe, Cooper, Harris, Moten), only Horton committed BEFORE Mario was hired. The rest of the 2022 is gone and has done squat at other schools. Mario basically saved this entire class.

2. After Mario was hired in early December, Miami received 9 new commits, 5 of them were contributors. One of them was Jaden Harris and you can count him as a miss, but given his offer sheet that year, you cannot convince me that the coaching staff was hoping to rely on him heavily when they took his commitment. This is a hit rate of 44% if you don't count Harris.

2. Out of 6 Oregon players from the Class of '22 who are on the two-deep, Iuli and Jackson were actually committed when Cristobal was still the coach. I'd have trouble believing he wouldn't have landed Conerly too had he stayed.

3. Kelvin Banks Jr. (Outland Trophy Winner) and Tetairoa McMillan (probably 1st round pick) both decommitted from Oregon and signed elsewhere ONLY AFTER Cristobal left. Please miss me with the Mario can't recruit or isn't a good talent evaluator.

I am not a math expert, but 40% seems a little off:

Class of 22 from the 2-deep:
Conerly, Iuli, James, Lowe, Rogers, Jackson.
35% out of 17 commits

Class of 23:
Laloulu, Moala, Wilson Uiagalelei, Washington, Tuioti, Turner, Austin
26% out of 30 commits

Class of 24 (WAY too early to tell):
Woodyard, McClellan (both barely played at all)
7% out of 28 commits

I didn't watch a lot of Oregon football so I used the two-deep, but I don't even know how much some of these guys contributed. This checks in at around a 22% hit rate.

Now you could argue that Lanning has dominated the portal and Mario's evals haven't been great (true) and that is why this isn't a perfect comparison (also true). But you cannot sit there and pretend that Mario has lost his touch as a recruiter or an evaluator.

There are so many legit reasons to doubt Mario, but these unrealistic expectations based on some random *** Year 3 benchmark are getting out of hand.
 
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MikeyCanez said:
I don't know what I hate more, that you made me look up Oregon's recruiting classes or that I have enough free time to actually do it. But I am with @P-Tizzle here.

The Oregon comparison is hilarious comparison for a number of reasons:

1. Out of all of Miami's contributors from the 2022 class (McCoy, Horton, Bissainthe, Cooper, Harris, Moten), only Horton committed BEFORE Mario was hired. The rest of the 2022 is gone and has done squat at other schools. Mario basically saved this entire class.

2. Out of 6 Oregon players from the Class of '22 who are on the two-deep, Iuli and Jackson were actually committed when Cristobal was still the coach. I'd have trouble believing he wouldn't have landed Conerly too had he stayed.

3. Kelvin Banks Jr. (Outland Trophy Winner) and Tetairoa McMillan (probably 1st round pick) both decommitted from Oregon and signed elsewhere ONLY AFTER Cristobal left. Please miss me with the Mario can't recruit or isn't a good talent evaluator.

I am not a math expert, but 40% seems a little off:

Class of 22 from the 2-deep:
Conerly, Iuli, James, Lowe, Rogers, Jackson.
35% out of 17 commits

Class of 23:
Laloulu, Moala, Wilson Uiagalelei, Washington, Tuioti, Turner, Austin
26% out of 30 commits

Class of 24 (WAY too early to tell):
Woodyard, McClellan (both barely played at all)
7% out of 28 commits

I didn't watch a lot of Oregon football so I used the two-deep, but I don't even know how much some of these guys contributed. This checks in at around a 22% hit rate.

Now you could argue that Lanning has dominated the portal and Mario's evals haven't been great (true) and that is why this isn't a perfect comparison (also true). But you cannot sit there and pretend that Mario has lost his touch as a recruiter or an evaluator.

There are so many legit reasons to doubt Mario, but these unrealistic expectations based on some random *** Year 3 benchmark are getting out of hand.
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B/c u didn’t watch Oregon, I’m assuming u went off of Ourlads vs. actual games, which is probably why u’re assuming things. Oregon runs 3 deep, my guy. The two deep play the most, but Lanning gets the next guys up into the games to take over for when the upperclassmen leave. I don’t post chit on this board for shock value.

Furthermore, there’s no such thing as a “random *** year 3 bench mark.” Unless u’ve been living under a rock since, I don’t know, 1960, there’s tangible, proven data on the elite coaches & what they’ve done by year 3 & it’s been posted & discussed ad nauseam here.

Lastly, what part of recruiter & evaluator r not synonymous don’t u understand? I don’t ? Mario the recruiter, but history shows I have every right to ? Mario the evaluator. There’s been way too many bust, both at his time at Oregon & now here.
 
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Rellyrell said:
B/c u didn’t watch Oregon, I’m assuming u went off of Ourlads vs. actual games, which is probably why u’re assuming things. Oregon runs 3 deep, my guy. The two deep play the most, but Lanning gets the next guys up into the games to take over for when the upperclassmen leave. I don’t post chit on this board for shock value.

Furthermore, there’s no such thing as a “random *** year 3 bench mark.” Unless u’ve been living under a rock since, I don’t know, 1960, there’s tangible, proven data on the elite coaches & what they’ve done by year 3 & it’s been posted & discussed ad nauseam here.

Lastly, what part of recruiter & evaluator r not synonymous don’t u understand? I don’t ? Mario the recruiter, but history shows I have every right to ? Mario the evaluator. There’s been way too many bust, both at his time at Oregon & now here.
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Oregon runs 3 deep? Please point out some guys on Oregon's 3-deep that you are counting as clear "hits"...because I am not seeing it.

The Year 3 benchmark is stupid. There are exceptions like Saban and Smart and Lanning and I guess Day, but like it or not, Miami is not Alabama or Georgia or Ohio State, especially when it comes to resources.

Like I said, you can easily argue that he should have done better in the portal, but I just pointed out all of the reasons he has been fine as an evaluator. The two classes you can truly judge ('23 and '24) aren't even upperclassmen yet.

Take some deep breaths.
 
MikeyCanez said:
Oregon runs 3 deep? Please point out some guys on Oregon's 3-deep that you are counting as clear "hits"...because I am not seeing it.

The Year 3 benchmark is stupid. There are exceptions like Saban and Smart and Lanning and I guess Day, but like it or not, Miami is not Alabama or Georgia or Ohio State, especially when it comes to resources.

Like I said, you can easily argue that he should have done better in the portal, but I just pointed out all of the reasons he has been fine as an evaluator. The two classes you can truly judge ('23 and '24) aren't even upperclassmen yet.

Take some deep breaths.
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OK Mikey
 
As far as actually acquiring contributing players to make a team, a 35% hit rate on 40 incoming players is the same as a a 56% hit rate on 25 incoming players. Idk why the latter would be the expectation or even the preferred method since It's far riskier.

Meanwhile every year there are the same 22 starting spots available with the Same ~1,600 snaps on O/D combined to go around yearly. We had like 18 players on offense get meaningful minutes this year? Can probably expect a little more on defense which usually rotates more, so thats maybe like 45 total players that will see legit minutes throughout the season.

The reality is you want like a 90% hit rate out of the portal players to be meaningful contributors. So if we bring in 12 guys in portal this year you don't want to "miss" on more than 2. That also means we need 35% of our HS additions to contribute over a 4 year period since we are averaging about 25 HS recruits/yr. However if we are being realistic it's not like all those 45 contributors need to be a "hit" in the same way. We need the 22 starters to be a hit far more than the 23 guys also get rotational work. We need 1 QB to be a hit far more than any other position.

The portal should basically always be quality over quantity going forward. I don't necessarily think that how we used the portal in the past is a good indicator of hit rate going forward, because our strategy has shifted as our roster quality has improved. HS you basically want to keep taking a high number of swings, with the expectation that it will lead to a lower hit rate. That's fine and safer.
 
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Some pretty good discussion here in all honesty appreciate the effort

Recruiting is definitely hard. More complicated than it’s ever been

Mario still hasn’t climbed to the top 12 teams in the country and others have and that’s all that really matters at the end of the day

The program “feels” closer to me to being a consistent playoff threat than it has in the past even though the record doesn’t necessarily support that yet but still seems we are very far away from that top tier
 
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