Coley on his offense

[CaneInHeelCountry]

we didnt score at all against a good team last year. Nothing against KSU, FSU, ND, and several bad teams.

That's the main thing that bugged me about Fish's offense.

We had plenty of opportunities to score in the ND game thanks to the plays Fisch called. There were plenty of open receivers. Remember the 2 drops by Dorsett in the ND game that were sure TDs? If he catches those, we've got momentum, and it's a different ballgame altogether.

KSU and FSU totally shut down our running game, which killed any chance to get a balanced offense going. Not saying that Fisch's play calling couldn't have been better, but KSU manhandled our OL all game long, and we were just sloppy in the FSU game. I don't place all the blame on Fisch for the lack of scoring in those games.

I don't see where anyone put ALL the blame of Fish for those games. But it's a results business, and the strength and experience of this team was on the offensive side of the ball. We **** ourselves against the good teams in 2012, and we did similarly in 2011.

Point is that Fisch can only call the plays that give us the best chance to score, and he did that. He's not responsible for Dorsett costing us 2 TDs and early momentum against ND.

When you say something like "that's the main thing that bugged me about Fisch's offense," you have to look at the whole picture, not just the end result.

 

[hollyhood27]

hold on. Fisch was just a position coach in the league...how was he designing playbooks? On top of that he worked for a couple really good head coaches who were offensive guys who had a strong hand in the playbook (Billick and Shanahan)

 

[LuCane]

hold on. Fisch was just a position coach in the league...how was he designing playbooks? On top of that he worked for a couple really good head coaches who were offensive guys who had a strong hand in the playbook (Billick and Shanahan)

The legend of Jedd Fisch grows. The guy is talented and actually may develop into something great in the pros. He just hasn't put it together up to this point.

 

[Cribby]

I doubt that Coley came here to run the exact same offense Fish ran. And Fish's offense looked nothing like Al's offense at Temple. I don't think Fish was merely a puppet doing what Al told him to do. I don't think Coley will be a puppet either. They might try to keep a lot of the same "language" with the Fish offense, but I don't expect Coley to come in here and run the same offense we saw last year.

Exactly . Coley will bring HIS playbook but maybe use some of the terminology that was used under Fisch to make the transition easier .

 

[Cribby]

I doubt that Coley came here to run the exact same offense Fish ran. And Fish's offense looked nothing like Al's offense at Temple. I don't think Fish was merely a puppet doing what Al told him to do. I don't think Coley will be a puppet either. They might try to keep a lot of the same "language" with the Fish offense, but I don't expect Coley to come in here and run the same offense we saw last year.

I can't remember if it was something I read or if I heard Al say it on National Signing Day but he basically said "We're gone be running the same offense Coleys gonna call the plays".

If its the same interview I saw, Al said we'll use a lot of the same " terminology ", that's far from using the same playbook.

The only time I've ever heard of an Oc coming in and learning a playbook is if it's the Hc's system and he doesn't want to call plays anymore. It'll always be his system and in most cases that coach will just premote from within .

No Oc worth a **** would come in and be told " here , run the old guys stuff, not your system ".

 

[The Franchise]

I doubt that Coley came here to run the exact same offense Fish ran. And Fish's offense looked nothing like Al's offense at Temple. I don't think Fish was merely a puppet doing what Al told him to do. I don't think Coley will be a puppet either. They might try to keep a lot of the same "language" with the Fish offense, but I don't expect Coley to come in here and run the same offense we saw last year.

One of the few times I haven't agreed with you chise. Jedd was brought in to design an offense for Golden. Golden already stated Coley won't be bringing in a new playbook here. Last thing Golden would ever do while building this program back up is have to put in a new system every time a Coordinator leaves. There may be some changes due to personnel strengths here and there but make no mistake about it that Coley is being brought up to speed and will then be the play caller. Jedd's offense may not look like Temple's under Golden but then again Temple didn't have the talent Golden has at Miami either.

I never saw anywhere from anyone connected to the situation stating that Fish was brought in to "design a playbook". I think that's an opinion that might have gained legs on message boards. My opinion, on the other hand, is that Fish was brought in to be UM's OC. Part of that job was installing a playbook. To say he was brought in here to build the blueprint for Al's offense for the rest of Al's career is not supported by anything I've seen.

I also haven't seen anything that supports the opinion that Al stated Coley won't be bringing in a new playbook. He was not part of the previous staff, was not a Fish "disciple", and I doubt that he'd have taken a lateral move for less money to be a robot stuck with Fish's playbook. This dude will have leeway to design plays and install plays.

I think we will try to keep the language as similar as possible to lessen the confusion with the players and make the transition easier. For instance, a guy like Gruden was famous for having such an intricate language when calling plays that it was almost impossible for young QBs to make it work. Al will most likely have Coley keep the manner in which plays are called and the nomenclature similar, but Coley will still have freedom to do his thing.

Really? Come on Chise... You know how Golden operates. Golden wants this football program to have an identity. Jedd comes in who just so happens to design NFL playbooks for a living to do what? Put in two years and haul ***? No, Golden had him design a playbook and system for the Canes. Like I said, it's much easier to bring in someone like Coley who has a high football IQ to learn a current system and get up to speed with the current terminology rather than have your entire offensive roster learn a new system before spring ball.

Let's see what Coley said, he's going to run multiple formations getting the players in position to make plays against the weaknesses of the opposing defenses? It's not like Jedd was running something Coley has never heard of before. This isn't rocket science.

Of course Coley will be allowed to call the plays but you best believe Golden will have a say in the game plan and offensive philosophy. Golden knows what he wants to run and Coley will run that. The reason I mentioned Bama and Saban is because Bama changed OC's and the offense never skipped a beat because they ran the same offensive philosophy, the Saban philosophy. Part of Randy's problem while he was here was he had no philosophy. As Coordinators came and went so did the current system and the players were always back to square one in the offseason. Amateur hour is over at Miami. Golden runs this **** now and has his hands in everything.

I won't repeat myself a bunch of times because it'll get boring for everyone. We're clearly going to agree to disagree on this issue, sir. You think we're going to use Fish's playbook; I think Coley will install his own offense but will try to make the transition easy as possible by using the same "language" Fish used.

I think we can all agree that it's Al's team and that he sets the general philosophy of what he wants the offense to look like. He can tell the OC that he wants to run a pro/spread system similar to what Fish ran, and Coley will do that in his own way. Or, he could switch it up and say he wants to be more of a base power set team with and use a FB more than Fish did.

I don't see Al as a meddler/micromanager though. Pretty sure he hired Coley because he trusts that Coley is a better OC than he is. And I seriously doubt that Coley would take a lateral move for less money to be pigeon-holed into using Fish's playbook.

 

[hollyhood27]

hold on. Fisch was just a position coach in the league...how was he designing playbooks? On top of that he worked for a couple really good head coaches who were offensive guys who had a strong hand in the playbook (Billick and Shanahan)

The legend of Jedd Fisch grows. The guy is talented and actually may develop into something great in the pros. He just hasn't put it together up to this point.

yea i have no idea where that design playbooks came from. Was he the tony franklin of the league. Making playbooks and pushing out resources for the league?

 

[The Franchise]

we didnt score at all against a good team last year. Nothing against KSU, FSU, ND, and several bad teams.

That's the main thing that bugged me about Fish's offense.

We had plenty of opportunities to score in the ND game thanks to the plays Fisch called. There were plenty of open receivers. Remember the 2 drops by Dorsett in the ND game that were sure TDs? If he catches those, we've got momentum, and it's a different ballgame altogether.

KSU and FSU totally shut down our running game, which killed any chance to get a balanced offense going. Not saying that Fisch's play calling couldn't have been better, but KSU manhandled our OL all game long, and we were just sloppy in the FSU game. I don't place all the blame on Fisch for the lack of scoring in those games.

I don't see where anyone put ALL the blame of Fish for those games. But it's a results business, and the strength and experience of this team was on the offensive side of the ball. We **** ourselves against the good teams in 2012, and we did similarly in 2011.

Point is that Fisch can only call the plays that give us the best chance to score, and he did that. He's not responsible for Dorsett costing us 2 TDs and early momentum against ND.

When you say something like "that's the main thing that bugged me about Fisch's offense," you have to look at the whole picture, not just the end result.

OK. You pointed out 2 drops against ND. How about the rest of the ND game and the other 2 games?

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

hold on. Fisch was just a position coach in the league...how was he designing playbooks? On top of that he worked for a couple really good head coaches who were offensive guys who had a strong hand in the playbook (Billick and Shanahan)

The legend of Jedd Fisch grows. The guy is talented and actually may develop into something great in the pros. He just hasn't put it together up to this point.

Gotta love it

 

[The Franchise]

hold on. Fisch was just a position coach in the league...how was he designing playbooks? On top of that he worked for a couple really good head coaches who were offensive guys who had a strong hand in the playbook (Billick and Shanahan)

The legend of Jedd Fisch grows. The guy is talented and actually may develop into something great in the pros. He just hasn't put it together up to this point.

Exactly how I see it. He did a pretty good job, but the way he's revered around these parts you'd think he was Sid Gillman or Don Coryell. And when did he become this renowned playbook designer whatever that is anyway?

 

[Ethnicsands]

I doubt that Coley came here to run the exact same offense Fish ran. And Fish's offense looked nothing like Al's offense at Temple. I don't think Fish was merely a puppet doing what Al told him to do. I don't think Coley will be a puppet either. They might try to keep a lot of the same "language" with the Fish offense, but I don't expect Coley to come in here and run the same offense we saw last year.

One of the few times I haven't agreed with you chise. Jedd was brought in to design an offense for Golden. Golden already stated Coley won't be bringing in a new playbook here. Last thing Golden would ever do while building this program back up is have to put in a new system every time a Coordinator leaves. There may be some changes due to personnel strengths here and there but make no mistake about it that Coley is being brought up to speed and will then be the play caller. Jedd's offense may not look like Temple's under Golden but then again Temple didn't have the talent Golden has at Miami either.

I never saw anywhere from anyone connected to the situation stating that Fish was brought in to "design a playbook". I think that's an opinion that might have gained legs on message boards. My opinion, on the other hand, is that Fish was brought in to be UM's OC. Part of that job was installing a playbook. To say he was brought in here to build the blueprint for Al's offense for the rest of Al's career is not supported by anything I've seen.

I also haven't seen anything that supports the opinion that Al stated Coley won't be bringing in a new playbook. He was not part of the previous staff, was not a Fish "disciple", and I doubt that he'd have taken a lateral move for less money to be a robot stuck with Fish's playbook. This dude will have leeway to design plays and install plays.

I think we will try to keep the language as similar as possible to lessen the confusion with the players and make the transition easier. For instance, a guy like Gruden was famous for having such an intricate language when calling plays that it was almost impossible for young QBs to make it work. Al will most likely have Coley keep the manner in which plays are called and the nomenclature similar, but Coley will still have freedom to do his thing.

Really? Come on Chise... You know how Golden operates. Golden wants this football program to have an identity. Jedd comes in who just so happens to design NFL playbooks for a living to do what? Put in two years and haul ***? No, Golden had him design a playbook and system for the Canes. Like I said, it's much easier to bring in someone like Coley who has a high football IQ to learn a current system and get up to speed with the current terminology rather than have your entire offensive roster learn a new system before spring ball.

Let's see what Coley said, he's going to run multiple formations getting the players in position to make plays against the weaknesses of the opposing defenses? It's not like Jedd was running something Coley has never heard of before. This isn't rocket science.

Of course Coley will be allowed to call the plays but you best believe Golden will have a say in the game plan and offensive philosophy. Golden knows what he wants to run and Coley will run that. The reason I mentioned Bama and Saban is because Bama changed OC's and the offense never skipped a beat because they ran the same offensive philosophy, the Saban philosophy. Part of Randy's problem while he was here was he had no philosophy. As Coordinators came and went so did the current system and the players were always back to square one in the offseason. Amateur hour is over at Miami. Golden runs this **** now and has his hands in everything.

I won't repeat myself a bunch of times because it'll get boring for everyone. We're clearly going to agree to disagree on this issue, sir. You think we're going to use Fish's playbook; I think Coley will install his own offense but will try to make the transition easy as possible by using the same "language" Fish used.

I think we can all agree that it's Al's team and that he sets the general philosophy of what he wants the offense to look like. He can tell the OC that he wants to run a pro/spread system similar to what Fish ran, and Coley will do that in his own way. Or, he could switch it up and say he wants to be more of a base power set team with and use a FB more than Fish did.

I don't see Al as a meddler/micromanager though. Pretty sure he hired Coley because he trusts that Coley is a better OC than he is. And I seriously doubt that Coley would take a lateral move for less money to be pigeon-holed into using Fish's playbook.

Can't imagine anyone could expect otherwise.

This will be Coley's offense, not Fisch's.

 

[hollyhood27]

hold on. Fisch was just a position coach in the league...how was he designing playbooks? On top of that he worked for a couple really good head coaches who were offensive guys who had a strong hand in the playbook (Billick and Shanahan)

The legend of Jedd Fisch grows. The guy is talented and actually may develop into something great in the pros. He just hasn't put it together up to this point.

Exactly how I see it. He did a pretty good job, but the way he's revered around these parts you'd think he was Sid Gillman or Don Coryell. And when did he become this renowned playbook designer whatever that is anyway?

Crazy reps for 2 great references.

 

[CaneSB]

At this point, what is a pro-style offense? The NFL is so multiple in their systems. Teams run everything from 2 back, 2 TE sets to 4 or 5 wide packages. They are using Pistol and read Option now. The days of the pro-style vs everything else are over.

.Coley will install his offense. He may choose to use Fisch's language to facilitate acclimation but other than that, there may be zero similarities in terms of philosophy.

At the end of the day, the name of the game is match-ups. Get your players in situations where there are mismatches in the passing game or outnumbered in the run game and you will move the ball. However Coley decides to get there, we will not know until they start spring practices.

And lets be honest. I liked Fisch alot. But lets not get away from the truth that his offense, whatever the reasons, struggled against our tough opponents.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

That's the main thing that bugged me about Fish's offense.

We had plenty of opportunities to score in the ND game thanks to the plays Fisch called. There were plenty of open receivers. Remember the 2 drops by Dorsett in the ND game that were sure TDs? If he catches those, we've got momentum, and it's a different ballgame altogether.

KSU and FSU totally shut down our running game, which killed any chance to get a balanced offense going. Not saying that Fisch's play calling couldn't have been better, but KSU manhandled our OL all game long, and we were just sloppy in the FSU game. I don't place all the blame on Fisch for the lack of scoring in those games.

I don't see where anyone put ALL the blame of Fish for those games. But it's a results business, and the strength and experience of this team was on the offensive side of the ball. We **** ourselves against the good teams in 2012, and we did similarly in 2011.

Point is that Fisch can only call the plays that give us the best chance to score, and he did that. He's not responsible for Dorsett costing us 2 TDs and early momentum against ND.

When you say something like "that's the main thing that bugged me about Fisch's offense," you have to look at the whole picture, not just the end result.

OK. You pointed out 2 drops against ND. How about the rest of the ND game and the other 2 games?

They weren't just 2 drops...they were 14 sure points and early momentum that could/would have changed the play calling and the entire course of the game.

As for the other games, I already addressed them. KSU's DL manhandled our OL and totally shut down our running game. Doesn't matter what Fisch calls...with a swiss cheese OL and a non-existent running game, we're a one-dimensional passing team with suspect receivers who dropped passes in that game too. And FSU equally shut down our running game as well.

 

[The Franchise]

We had plenty of opportunities to score in the ND game thanks to the plays Fisch called. There were plenty of open receivers. Remember the 2 drops by Dorsett in the ND game that were sure TDs? If he catches those, we've got momentum, and it's a different ballgame altogether.

KSU and FSU totally shut down our running game, which killed any chance to get a balanced offense going. Not saying that Fisch's play calling couldn't have been better, but KSU manhandled our OL all game long, and we were just sloppy in the FSU game. I don't place all the blame on Fisch for the lack of scoring in those games.

I don't see where anyone put ALL the blame of Fish for those games. But it's a results business, and the strength and experience of this team was on the offensive side of the ball. We **** ourselves against the good teams in 2012, and we did similarly in 2011.

Point is that Fisch can only call the plays that give us the best chance to score, and he did that. He's not responsible for Dorsett costing us 2 TDs and early momentum against ND.

When you say something like "that's the main thing that bugged me about Fisch's offense," you have to look at the whole picture, not just the end result.

OK. You pointed out 2 drops against ND. How about the rest of the ND game and the other 2 games?

They weren't just 2 drops...they were 14 sure points and early momentum that could/would have changed the play calling and the entire course of the game.

As for the other games, I already addressed them. KSU's DL manhandled our OL and totally shut down our running game. Doesn't matter what Fisch calls...with a swiss cheese OL and a non-existent running game, we're a one-dimensional passing team with suspect receivers who dropped passes in that game too. And FSU equally shut down our running game as well.

There were still 70 other plays to be made against ND. As for the other games, is it your position that Fish had nothing to do with the running game or establishing a tough mindset in the running game? Was he just a bystander when it came to the running game and the mindset and offensive philosophy required to establish that important part of the offense? We've got some big, **** good and experienced hosses on that OL. A top level OC would have worked wonders with them in the run game instead of making us such a finesse horizontal passing team.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

I don't see where anyone put ALL the blame of Fish for those games. But it's a results business, and the strength and experience of this team was on the offensive side of the ball. We **** ourselves against the good teams in 2012, and we did similarly in 2011.

Point is that Fisch can only call the plays that give us the best chance to score, and he did that. He's not responsible for Dorsett costing us 2 TDs and early momentum against ND.

When you say something like "that's the main thing that bugged me about Fisch's offense," you have to look at the whole picture, not just the end result.

OK. You pointed out 2 drops against ND. How about the rest of the ND game and the other 2 games?

They weren't just 2 drops...they were 14 sure points and early momentum that could/would have changed the play calling and the entire course of the game.

As for the other games, I already addressed them. KSU's DL manhandled our OL and totally shut down our running game. Doesn't matter what Fisch calls...with a swiss cheese OL and a non-existent running game, we're a one-dimensional passing team with suspect receivers who dropped passes in that game too. And FSU equally shut down our running game as well.

There were still 70 other plays to be made against ND. As for the other games, is it your position that Fish had nothing to do with the running game or establishing a tough mindset in the running game? Was he just a bystander when it came to the running game and the mindset and offensive philosophy required to establish that important part of the offense? We've got some big, **** good and experienced hosses on that OL. A top level OC would have worked wonders with them in the run game instead of making us such a finesse horizontal passing team.

I understand there was still more than 3/4ths of a game to be played against ND. But if you go up 14-0 on them, your team gets confidence, and you play downhill. Instead, we dropped 2 sure TDs, putting the burden on a JV defense. It changes the tenor of the game from the beginning. Anyone with a modicum of football knowledge can see that. And anyway, the point was that Fisch's calls should have led to at least 14 more pts against ND, if executed properly. With the momentum that brings, there may well have been more pts.

As for the other games, it's not as though Fisch didn't call running plays, or didn't try to establish a running game. Our big experienced OL got murdered by bigger, more experienced DLs at KSU and FSU.

 

[The Franchise]

Point is that Fisch can only call the plays that give us the best chance to score, and he did that. He's not responsible for Dorsett costing us 2 TDs and early momentum against ND.

When you say something like "that's the main thing that bugged me about Fisch's offense," you have to look at the whole picture, not just the end result.

OK. You pointed out 2 drops against ND. How about the rest of the ND game and the other 2 games?

They weren't just 2 drops...they were 14 sure points and early momentum that could/would have changed the play calling and the entire course of the game.

As for the other games, I already addressed them. KSU's DL manhandled our OL and totally shut down our running game. Doesn't matter what Fisch calls...with a swiss cheese OL and a non-existent running game, we're a one-dimensional passing team with suspect receivers who dropped passes in that game too. And FSU equally shut down our running game as well.

There were still 70 other plays to be made against ND. As for the other games, is it your position that Fish had nothing to do with the running game or establishing a tough mindset in the running game? Was he just a bystander when it came to the running game and the mindset and offensive philosophy required to establish that important part of the offense? We've got some big, **** good and experienced hosses on that OL. A top level OC would have worked wonders with them in the run game instead of making us such a finesse horizontal passing team.

I understand there was still more than 3/4ths of a game to be played against ND. But if you go up 14-0 on them, your team gets confidence, and you play downhill. Instead, we dropped 2 sure TDs, putting the burden on a JV defense. It changes the tenor of the game from the beginning. Anyone with a modicum of football knowledge can see that. And anyway, the point was that Fisch's calls should have led to at least 14 more pts against ND, if executed properly. With the momentum that brings, there may well have been more pts.

As for the other games, it's not as though Fisch didn't call running plays, or didn't try to establish a running game. Our big experienced OL got murdered by bigger, more experienced DLs at KSU and FSU.

LULZ at "he tried to call running plays". Done here. You want to talk about a modicum of football knowledge and then let Fish off the hook for our finesse running game getting stuffed by good defenses. Running the football is mindset. You don't get that mindset with no FB and constantly throwing horizontal passes. Anyone with a modicum of football knowledge knows that.

 

[JHallCanes]

I just don't see how we all of a suddenly become a power running team with this roster. MJ was a lot of things but a power back ain't one and we are even less of a power run team this year. Regardless of what Coley wants to run we are still going to have to rely on the strengths of the team and right now that's a one read QB and a deep unspectacular WR core with a lot of room to grow.

More likely to see more WRs and spread.

 

[Picksix]

hold on. Fisch was just a position coach in the league...how was he designing playbooks? On top of that he worked for a couple really good head coaches who were offensive guys who had a strong hand in the playbook (Billick and Shanahan)

The legend of Jedd Fisch grows. The guy is talented and actually may develop into something great in the pros. He just hasn't put it together up to this point.

Exactly how I see it. He did a pretty good job, but the way he's revered around these parts you'd think he was Sid Gillman or Don Coryell. And when did he become this renowned playbook designer whatever that is anyway?

Playbook design means just that. Making a playbook for an offense. I was under the assumption you knew a little bit about Jedd when we hired him...

"In 2001, Dom Capers, a longtime NFL defensive mastermind, had been hired to be the founding coach of the expansion Houston Texans franchise. When looking to hire a staff, Capers called up his old friend Spurrier and asked for a recommendation. Spurrier had the perfect guy in mind.

Jedd Fisch, welcome to Houston.

“I was fortunate that of the 11 years Coach Spurrier was there at Florida, he recommended me to go of all the people he had worked with,” Fisch said.

So Fisch was off to Texas, forming one part of a three-headed crew — along with Capers and Chris Palmer — that laid the foundation for the organization a whole year before the team even played its first game. The threesome spent eight months building the program during Year 0 of the franchise, developing practice plans, making playbooks, breaking down film and constructing the Texans from scratch."

LULZ at the Legend of Jedd Fisch grows...

 

[hollyhood27]

You do realize when he was with the texans he was defensive quality control. He wasn't making play books like designing them, he was more constructing them.