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CANESVILLE Twitter Space

kryptonite said:
I see you've forgotten the last 2 times the NCAA dug its claws into us.
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AUcane said:
I won't lie - love the money they're ponying up and I get they're excited but man, you want to keep a lot of this stuff more on the hush hush than anything else. I get it - you want the PR/marketing but you don't see this kind of stuff with the big boys and you know what they say - the squeaky wheel attracts the ncaa.
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They used to have to keep it hush hush because it was not allowed. NIL is legal and neutered the NCAA. It’s a different world from the one you are concerned about.
 
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AtlAtty said:
For the millionth time, NIL has NOTHING to do with the NCAA. This was based on a U.S. Supreme Court decision which provides that college athletes, like the rest of the U.S., can profit from their Name, Image and Likeness. The NCAA member institutions did not create the rule, and as such, have no enforcement mechanism over NIL. The NCAA has 100% out.
I am not the only one repeatedly providing this information and we should not have to keep restating it. There are some state laws, no federal laws, and a Supreme Court decision which completely threw the door wide open with no restrictions.
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This is not completely accurate. It is true in regards to PURE NIL deals, such as a local business choosing to utilize the player as a spokesperson.

But the NCAA still has the power and right to regulate "pay-for-play", and this would be impacted by how much the school arranges these deals, and whether the NIL deals are bona fide. Because the ONE issue that the NCAA has fought for...forever...is the concept of whether the players are de facto employees. Because if that bridge ever gets crossed, it will lead to all kinds of unintended consequences, including Workers Comp and FICA/Medicare/SE Tax.

Now, I am not saying the NCAA/universities will or will not win or lose any related lawsuits. But there has been a history of lawsuits attempting to assert that college athletes are actual employees of the universities. If you have a bright line between "NIL payments" and the scholarship money the players are receiving, it is easier to continue to maintain that players are not employees. But as the line blurs, as colleges coordinate these payments more and more, the wall will fall down and this mess will go places that the NCAA/universities do not want it to go.

We are not yet at an absolute, i.e., "the NCAA has no power". The NCAA still has plenty of power, but has not used it yet, and may never use it. Remember, the existing mechanism is "NCAA declares player ineligible, university almost never plays the player and risks vacating any wins, university may challenge in court, etc." If the central issue for future ineligibility (on the grounds of "pay-for-play") has to do with university coordination of NIL deals, then there will be an interesting Sophie's Choice for the universities to make. Do the universities DEFEND arranging NILs (thus opening the door to "employee" treatment of student-athletes) or do the universities follow the NCAA's "pay-for-play" ineligibility rulings, even though they pretty much acknowledge the rule-breaking (even if the lines were unclear)?

It's bizarre stuff. Alice in Wonderland stuff. Again, the NCAA brought this on themselves, I am not exactly sympathetic. But at the same time, there is a very real reason why the NCAA needs to TRY to draw a line in the sand, even as many universities and boosters continue to push the envelope and act as if there is no line to be drawn whatsoever.

The NCAA is still the sanctioning body for competition. There are still rules, and there is still the power to declare players ineligible and/or vacate victories. I'm not saying that will happen, but until the Power Five literally quits the NCAA, there is still power at the NCAA level. I am completely in favor of athletes being able to be compensated for their NIL, but I can also acknowledge that the NCAA MUST ACT to define what would be considered "pay-for-play" and what will create the inevitable conclusion that the student-athletes are employees of each university.

The ***** is hitting the fan.
 
kryptonite said:
Am I wrong, or does the ncaa still have all the other powers it always had? Maybe it’s losing out, but I’m not so convinced it can’t tie us up on some non-NIL nonsense.
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Correct.

The sanctioning body is still needed.

Take boxing/MMA for example. Without the organizations that set rules and sanction fights, the entire competitive activity of boxing/MMA would be criminal, and massive civil liability would result. It doesn't matter that two guys are WILLING to beat the ****e out of each other, the sanctioning body is the reason that the cops don't show up to put everyone in handcuffs.
 
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Zbrod95 said:
Why are these ******* idiot clout chasers stating this **** on a public podcast for everybody to hear?

Do money launderers run to WSVN and yell “Hey look at me FBI and IRS!”?

Literally lol at every body liking this post.
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No, a few of us have said this is unbelievably fishy. Lots of articles on the cloudy air around this spac… also yeah, tropical park, I guess coral gables sr high said NO to that bat **** crazy idea. I hope they take some time to really vet these guys because it has all the makings of Nevin 2.0. Be a donor, or be a public clown, when you do both the potential failure is spectacular.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
This is not completely accurate. It is true in regards to PURE NIL deals, such as a local business choosing to utilize the player as a spokesperson.

But the NCAA still has the power and right to regulate "pay-for-play", and this would be impacted by how much the school arranges these deals, and whether the NIL deals are bona fide. Because the ONE issue that the NCAA has fought for...forever...is the concept of whether the players are de facto employees. Because if that bridge ever gets crossed, it will lead to all kinds of unintended consequences, including Workers Comp and FICA/Medicare/SE Tax.

Now, I am not saying the NCAA/universities will or will not win or lose any related lawsuits. But there has been a history of lawsuits attempting to assert that college athletes are actual employees of the universities. If you have a bright line between "NIL payments" and the scholarship money the players are receiving, it is easier to continue to maintain that players are not employees. But as the line blurs, as colleges coordinate these payments more and more, the wall will fall down and this mess will go places that the NCAA/universities do not want it to go.

We are not yet at an absolute, i.e., "the NCAA has no power". The NCAA still has plenty of power, but has not used it yet, and may never use it. Remember, the existing mechanism is "NCAA declares player ineligible, university almost never plays the player and risks vacating any wins, university may challenge in court, etc." If the central issue for future ineligibility (on the grounds of "pay-for-play") has to do with university coordination of NIL deals, then there will be an interesting Sophie's Choice for the universities to make. Do the universities DEFEND arranging NILs (thus opening the door to "employee" treatment of student-athletes) or do the universities follow the NCAA's "pay-for-play" ineligibility rulings, even though they pretty much acknowledge the rule-breaking (even if the lines were unclear)?

It's bizarre stuff. Alice in Wonderland stuff. Again, the NCAA brought this on themselves, I am not exactly sympathetic. But at the same time, there is a very real reason why the NCAA needs to TRY to draw a line in the sand, even as many universities and boosters continue to push the envelope and act as if there is no line to be drawn whatsoever.

The NCAA is still the sanctioning body for competition. There are still rules, and there is still the power to declare players ineligible and/or vacate victories. I'm not saying that will happen, but until the Power Five literally quits the NCAA, there is still power at the NCAA level. I am completely in favor of athletes being able to be compensated for their NIL, but I can also acknowledge that the NCAA MUST ACT to define what would be considered "pay-for-play" and what will create the inevitable conclusion that the student-athletes are employees of each university.

The ***** is hitting the fan.
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I don’t think, given the scrutiny that is here or will be here via governments eyeballs, that the NCAA will go after Miami while Texas pays OL $50k each - not without getting decimated by legislators, courts…

In the past, they may have gotten away with their arbitrary and capricious enforcement of rules but this is so out of their control at this point. I’d almost invite them to try. It would end what authority they have left to terrorize us.
 
RVACane said:
I don’t think, given the scrutiny that is here or will be here via governments eyeballs, that the NCAA will go after Miami while Texas pays OL $50k each - not without getting decimated by legislators, courts…

In the past, they may have gotten away with their arbitrary and capricious enforcement of rules but this is so out of their control at this point. I’d almost invite them to try. It would end what authority they have left to terrorize us.
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Exactly, makes it hard to pick and choose. Did you also see Fromer NFL QB Charlie Batch tweet at Caleb WIlliams saying he has a 1 mil NIL deal on the table if he goes to like Eastern Michigan?
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
This is not completely accurate. It is true in regards to PURE NIL deals, such as a local business choosing to utilize the player as a spokesperson.

But the NCAA still has the power and right to regulate "pay-for-play", and this would be impacted by how much the school arranges these deals, and whether the NIL deals are bona fide. Because the ONE issue that the NCAA has fought for...forever...is the concept of whether the players are de facto employees. Because if that bridge ever gets crossed, it will lead to all kinds of unintended consequences, including Workers Comp and FICA/Medicare/SE Tax.

Now, I am not saying the NCAA/universities will or will not win or lose any related lawsuits. But there has been a history of lawsuits attempting to assert that college athletes are actual employees of the universities. If you have a bright line between "NIL payments" and the scholarship money the players are receiving, it is easier to continue to maintain that players are not employees. But as the line blurs, as colleges coordinate these payments more and more, the wall will fall down and this mess will go places that the NCAA/universities do not want it to go.

We are not yet at an absolute, i.e., "the NCAA has no power". The NCAA still has plenty of power, but has not used it yet, and may never use it. Remember, the existing mechanism is "NCAA declares player ineligible, university almost never plays the player and risks vacating any wins, university may challenge in court, etc." If the central issue for future ineligibility (on the grounds of "pay-for-play") has to do with university coordination of NIL deals, then there will be an interesting Sophie's Choice for the universities to make. Do the universities DEFEND arranging NILs (thus opening the door to "employee" treatment of student-athletes) or do the universities follow the NCAA's "pay-for-play" ineligibility rulings, even though they pretty much acknowledge the rule-breaking (even if the lines were unclear)?

It's bizarre stuff. Alice in Wonderland stuff. Again, the NCAA brought this on themselves, I am not exactly sympathetic. But at the same time, there is a very real reason why the NCAA needs to TRY to draw a line in the sand, even as many universities and boosters continue to push the envelope and act as if there is no line to be drawn whatsoever.

The NCAA is still the sanctioning body for competition. There are still rules, and there is still the power to declare players ineligible and/or vacate victories. I'm not saying that will happen, but until the Power Five literally quits the NCAA, there is still power at the NCAA level. I am completely in favor of athletes being able to be compensated for their NIL, but I can also acknowledge that the NCAA MUST ACT to define what would be considered "pay-for-play" and what will create the inevitable conclusion that the student-athletes are employees of each university.

The ***** is hitting the fan.
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The major difference between then and now, and why I keep asserting that the NCAA is powerless (I should write ‘effectively powerless) is because NIL was a court decision, which gives lower courts the jurisdiction to hear NIL lawsuits.
So let’s assume the NCAA declares player X ineligible due to a purported NIL issue. What I expect a player or school to do going forward is rather than sit the player, file a Temporary Injunction such that the player remains eligible and then proceed with the lawsuit, which will take 1-2 years to wind thru the court system, by which time the player has likely moved on. I also expect under this hypothetical that the courts will lean heavily on the side of the player because the Supreme Court opinion so heavily favored the players over the NCAA that lower courts will want to follow that lead.

you made great points and you are appropriately forcing me to re-state my argument. The NCAA is ‘effectively powerless’ because they are not the final judge of NIL violations. The courts are and the courts will almost assuredly side with players.
 
marshallrc13 said:
Basically, secretly, we have a way to combat/challenge the bag game. Saying this publicly may/will let the bag schools know, and they will then change their approach, etc.
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But the other schools are very public about it, see Texas A and M. See Jackson State. See University of Texas.
NIL was meant to be public. This way the IRS will know how is being paid and how much, and will receive their appropriate cut, as opposed to under the table deals.
 
Cookie917 said:
Exactly, makes it hard to pick and choose. Did you also see Fromer NFL QB Charlie Batch tweet at Caleb WIlliams saying he has a 1 mil NIL deal on the table if he goes to like Eastern Michigan?
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I didn’t but I think it’s great for the sport in some ways though I know there will be pitfalls. I think it’s great that players can get something more for their skills and live a more comfortable life based on a free market.

I also like that schools besides Alabama and similar can have a chance at top talent. The system we’ve been in gave us no chance. Look at the NC game this year. That’s the result of two schools under the table bagging a massively disproportionate percentage of the top talent. If 15-20 more schools can pull some of those kids with NIL deals, that’ll help offset that historic advantage these guys have had. Of course, they will probably still get more than their fair share but at least other schools can compete for some of the talent.
 
88 said:
People act like Miami just competing with the big boys out of nowhere with nothing in place is less suspicious than laying out legal ways to get it done.
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Exactly.

I been saying for a while that I suspected that the big boosters were waiting for the school to take football seriously. They are smart business people. They were not going to **** away millions upon millions to a school that showed it didn’t care at all.

They got fed up, banded together and made a push for big change. It seems out of nowhere but has been building a long time. It just took Diaz’s ineptitude to bust the **** open and get enough important people off the fence so that the needed changes could be made.
 
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