Canes vs. BC

[King of Allapattah]

Seems like some of you fail to understand that a big part of officiating basketball is game management. Knowing what to call and when to call it. Omier's 4th foul (double foul call) is a perfect example of this. Looked to me like the lead official that was on the baseline was trying to let them play thru it, but once Omier threw the forearm shiver, ref made the call on both guys after not calling the initial grab on BC's big guy.

 

[AmherstCane]

Seems like some of you fail to understand that a big part of officiating basketball is game management. Knowing what to call and when to call it. Omier's 4th foul (double foul call) is a perfect example of this. Looked to me like the lead official that was on the baseline was trying to let them play thru it, but once Omier threw the forearm shiver, ref made the call on both guys after not calling the initial grab on BC's big guy.

Yeah but that “forearm shiver” was when he got a two hand shove by post and was off balance.

I would understand what you’re saying but you can’t let them play through a foul and THEN call a double foul after the guy who committed the initial foul puts a two hand shove on the defender. I am actually fine with letting them play through the initial foul but then you can’t call a double foul when the offensive player fouled and then pushed the defensive player. And the foul called on Omier was for bringing his arm down and in when he was pushed.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Seems like some of you fail to understand that a big part of officiating basketball is game management. Knowing what to call and when to call it. Omier's 4th foul (double foul call) is a perfect example of this. Looked to me like the lead official that was on the baseline was trying to let them play thru it, but once Omier threw the forearm shiver, ref made the call on both guys after not calling the initial grab on BC's big guy.

Some here are a bunch of homers who think our players do no wrong. Really pathetic. They are probably the same people who blame only the coaches and not the players during football season.

 

[Memnon]

The only issue I have is what exactly is Omier supposed to do?

He can’t play with any physicality at all without getting a whistle, meanwhile the opposing Bigs get to push, scrape & scrap all game long & rarely get called with the same frequency as Omier does.

Basically he just has to become a statue in order to not get every ticky tack foul call?

And then people will say he’s a bad interior Defender lol, he pretty much can’t win for losing in this situation.

Omier is not a hacker or a reckless player, he’s just a strong physical Big that has to deal with guys beating him up all game & because he doesn’t back down or just stand there with his hands straight up in the air he has to take the brunt of whatever’s coming at him & then gets quick whistles all game.

I watch Bigs like Zach Edey, Oscar Tshiebwe, Aziz Bandaogo, Armando Bacot, Adama Sanogo etc play & they definitely do not get called for the same kinds of fouls as Omier & it’s not because they’re any less physical on both sides of the floor.

It just seems to me like Omier can’t do anything without getting called for a foul.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

The only issue I have is what exactly is Omier supposed to do?

He can’t play with any physicality at all without getting a whistle, meanwhile the opposing Bigs get to push, scrape & scrap all game long & rarely get called with the same frequency as Omier does.

Basically he just has to become a statue in order to not get every ticky tack foul call?

And then people will say he’s a bad interior Defender lol, he pretty much can’t win for losing in this situation.

Omier is not a hacker or a reckless player, he’s just a strong physical Big that has to deal with guys beating him up all game & because he doesn’t back down or just stand there with his hands straight up in the air he has to take the brunt of whatever’s coming at him & then gets quick whistles all game.

I watch Bigs like Zach Edey, Oscar Tshiebwe, Aziz Bandaogo, Armando Bacot, Adama Sanogo etc play & they definitely do not get called for the same kinds of fouls as Omier & it’s not because they’re any less physical on both sides of the floor.

It just seems to me like Omier can’t do anything without getting called for a foul.

He is a reckless player. How many dumb offensive fouls and defensive fouls that he’s picked up 25 feet from the basket has he picked up this year? So many fouls called on him could have easily been avoided.

 

[Memnon]

Some here are a bunch of homers who think our players do no wrong. Really pathetic. They are probably the same people who blame only the coaches and not the players during football season.

I definitely didn’t say that at all if that’s what you’re implying, but I’m just judging by what I’ve seen from every game I’ve watched this season.

Omier does make mistakes & some of his fouls are his fault, I just wouldn’t categorize as if every single whistle he gets is all on him, but that’s just the way I see it.

I’ve never once said the players do no wrong, in either Football or Basketball btw.

 

[Memnon]

He is a reckless player. How many dumb offensive fouls and defensive fouls that he’s picked up 25 feet from the basket has he picked up this year? So many fouls called on him could have easily been avoided.

Agree to disagree on that.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Going to blow a 15 point lead at home to BC. This team is steaming hot garbage

Did they blow the lead? Do this board a favor and go back to 247. You are legit the worst poster here. The team has its flaws but they are frickin 14-2 with some nice W’s.

 

[AmherstCane]

The only issue I have is what exactly is Omier supposed to do?

He can’t play with any physicality at all without getting a whistle, meanwhile the opposing Bigs get to push, scrape & scrap all game long & rarely get called with the same frequency as Omier does.

Basically he just has to become a statue in order to not get every ticky tack foul call?

And then people will say he’s a bad interior Defender lol, he pretty much can’t win for losing in this situation.

Omier is not a hacker or a reckless player, he’s just a strong physical Big that has to deal with guys beating him up all game & because he doesn’t back down or just stand there with his hands straight up in the air he has to take the brunt of whatever’s coming at him & then gets quick whistles all game.

I watch Bigs like Zach Edey, Oscar Tshiebwe, Aziz Bandaogo, Armando Bacot, Adama Sanogo etc play & they definitely do not get called for the same kinds of fouls as Omier & it’s not because they’re any less physical on both sides of the floor.

It just seems to me like Omier can’t do anything without getting called for a foul.

Perfectly said. And while Omier definitely commits dumb and frustrating fouls here and there, he’s also on the court more than most bigs (because of our depth issues in the front court)… so I think it’s totally wrong to say Omier is reckless or a fouling machine.

Regardless of all of our opinions… Jim has never gone after the refs in any meaningful way in his ENTIRE tenure here (sometimes to my frustration). So he has a decade plus of accumulated credibility… and he’s definitely spending it on how they officiate Omier. And I believe him.

 

[King of Allapattah]

The only issue I have is what exactly is Omier supposed to do?

He can’t play with any physicality at all without getting a whistle, meanwhile the opposing Bigs get to push, scrape & scrap all game long & rarely get called with the same frequency as Omier does.

Basically he just has to become a statue in order to not get every ticky tack foul call?

And then people will say he’s a bad interior Defender lol, he pretty much can’t win for losing in this situation.

Omier is not a hacker or a reckless player, he’s just a strong physical Big that has to deal with guys beating him up all game & because he doesn’t back down or just stand there with his hands straight up in the air he has to take the brunt of whatever’s coming at him & then gets quick whistles all game.

I watch Bigs like Zach Edey, Oscar Tshiebwe, Aziz Bandaogo, Armando Bacot, Adama Sanogo etc play & they definitely do not get called for the same kinds of fouls as Omier & it’s not because they’re any less physical on both sides of the floor.

It just seems to me like Omier can’t do anything without getting called for a foul.

I may be over simplifying this but I think it's just going to come down to time for Omier and refs to learn to "co-exist" in games. Omier needs to do a better job of adjusting his play to how games are being called. Unfortunately, not all games are going to be called the same way. Some games he'll have a crew working it that will let players play and in other games he'll have guys calling it tight. I do also think refs are getting a feel and understanding of how to call Omier. Usually, you'll see it take a season or two for guys to figure things out. For Omier's sake let's hope these ACC crews do it a lot quicker than that. However, Omier being the player it behooves him to make the adjustment as early as possible if he wants to stay in games and out of foul trouble. That being said, I do think in time refs will make their adjustment on how to officiate him and you'll see Omier more times than not getting the benefit of the doubt on a lot more calls. Kinda how Bacot, Tshiebwe, Timme, etc. weren't getting calls early in their careers but are getting them now.

 

[Memnon]

I may be over simplifying this but I think it's just going to come down to time for Omier and refs to learn to "co-exist" in games. Omier needs to do a better job of adjusting his play to how games are being called. Unfortunately, not all games are going to be called the same way. Some games he'll have a crew working it that will let players play and in other games he'll have guys calling it tight. I do also think refs are getting a feel and understanding of how to call Omier. Usually, you'll see it take a season or two for guys to figure things out. For Omier's sake let's hope these ACC crews do it a lot quicker than that. However, Omier being the player it behooves him to make the adjustment as early as possible if he wants to stay in games and out of foul trouble. That being said, I do think in time refs will make their adjustment on how to officiate him and you'll see Omier more times than not getting the benefit of the doubt on a lot more calls. Kinda how Bacot, Tshiebwe, Timme, etc. weren't getting calls early in their careers but are getting them now.

I can agree on that, I definitely think Omier can be more mindful of how he plays in terms of physicality in the post.

However, I would add that in a lot of cases that’s unfortunately gonna mean he just simply can’t make physical contact at all with his man & will be forced to allow guys to score or in some cases give up Rebounds because of it.

If Omier takes away the things that get him a lot of whistles I would guess he’s pretty much just gonna have to move out the way entirely on a lot of plays or just play as passively as possible in order to not accumulate quick fouls in the first half, which could affect how effective he is on the Boards & as a rim protector overall in general.

The trade-off in that scenario hopefully would be he focuses more on the Offensive side of the ball & scoring, working on his shot etc..

 

[JB7-FTW]

I wish Aire were more ready to contribute, we run too many guards to only have Omier/Miller as our "bigs" even though they're both wing sized. Walker is a mess and Casey is alright. I honestly think Watson is already ready to contribute but at the least he can step into the Miller role next year, but right now he's not gonna find minutes. I also feel for Jakai Robinson as he came in expecting to be a contributor at guard but Bensley completely stepped up, Wong returned, we added Pack, and most surprising of all Beverley has come back from a pretty bad back injury and really polished his game. Can't really complain while we're winning but I wish this were more like the NBA where you see the end of bench guys more, but at this point it seems like that's not going to happen.

 

[AtlAtty]

I can agree on that, I definitely think Omier can be more mindful of how he plays in terms of physicality in the post.

However, I would add that in a lot of cases that’s unfortunately gonna mean he just simply can’t make physical contact at all with his man & will be forced to allow guys to score or in some cases give up Rebounds because of it.

If Omier takes away the things that get him a lot of whistles I would guess he’s pretty much just gonna have to move out the way entirely on a lot of plays or just play as passively as possible in order to not accumulate quick fouls in the first half, which could affect how effective he is on the Boards & as a rim protector overall in general.

The trade-off in that scenario hopefully would be he focuses more on the Offensive side of the ball & scoring, working on his shot etc..

Omier is a guy who may be better in the NBA since bing more physical is rewarded rather than punished like it is in college ball. Just please no more reach ins like the 5th foul against Gtech.

 

[Memnon]

I wish Aire were more ready to contribute, we run too many guards to only have Omier/Miller as our "bigs" even though they're both wing sized. Walker is a mess and Casey is alright. I honestly think Watson is already ready to contribute but at the least he can step into the Miller role next year, but right now he's not gonna find minutes. I also feel for Jakai Robinson as he came in expecting to be a contributor at guard but Bensley completely stepped up, Wong returned, we added Pack, and most surprising of all Beverley has come back from a pretty bad back injury and really polished his game. Can't really complain while we're winning but I wish this were more like the NBA where you see the end of bench guys more, but at this point it seems like that's not going to happen.

Watson is the most curious case IMO...

Because in the games he’s played he hasn’t looked bad to me, obviously it’s been sparingly late in the 2nd half’s of games so you have to factor that in, but IMO he looked solid against Cornell & LVille.

The problem is, he’s really only played in 7 games this year & has averaged basically 2-3 minutes, so it’s really hard to get an accurate judgment & assessment of what he can or can’t do because he simply hasn’t played enough.

Idk what the Redshirt rules are for CBB, but I wonder if Larra is shirting Watson this season?

 

[Cane since 1060]

This was a nice win against a feisty BC team. Miller played tonight the way Miller should play every night he can ball and dominate and we saw some of that. I like the schedule tough games are spaced out. We have a chance to be a top 10 team and be able to hold that position. Crowd was effective we are 10-0 at home but we have to be road warriors and that is not yet a predictable quantity.

 

[HurikaneMarc]

Omier is a guy who may be better in the NBA since bing more physical is rewarded rather than punished like it is in college ball. Just please no more reach ins like the 5th foul against Gtech.

Agreed.

He's also going to have the benefit of playing his proper position. The young man isn't a center.

He does commit some dumb fouls but sometimes he's forced to commit them because he's playing out of position. Due to his lack of length he's forced to rely on timing and taking defensive risk. On offense he's almost always playing someone 2-5 inches taller so he HAS to create space by banging. These things can go well or badly depending on the crew.

I agree with kingofAllapatah his next evolution is to learn how to read the room and to adjust his physicality accordingly.

 

[hotshot]

We got called for 9 fouls tonight, and 4 of them were on Norchad

I don't find that surprising at all. He's 6/7, 250 and our only player banging inside.

 

[hotshot]

Pack plays lazy man. I saw some hustle out of him tonight but 90% of the time he’s not going to come up with the 50/50 ball. I don’t know if it’s a strength issue or a hustle issue, but… it’s something L has addressed (politely) and Pack needs to fix.

Can't disagree. If starting jobs were given out based solely on "merit," Joseph or Beverly would start ahead of him.

Pack was brought in (is that $800K NIL figure for real?) to provide critically-needed 3 point marksmanship. He shot a terrific 44% at KSU lsast year from beyond the arc. This year he's at 34%. That's not terrible but ... we will need more from him if we're really gonna make a lot of NCAAT noise.

Apologists say he's still "acclimating" to a new system, or he's playing more PG here at UM. I don't buy those excuses at this point. The fact is he's just missing a ton of 3's he made for KSU last season. The shots are there for him; he's just gotta make more of them.

 

[hotshot]

Still ****ed about that Ga Tech game. No excuse for that team to lose that game. Every game going forward except for probably the Louisville game will be a fight.

Still not sure we have, as a team, a real "killer instinct." Our guys are skilled, play well together, and look like they're having a lot of fun out there. The game turned into a rout at the end but that 15 point halftime lead shrunk several times to 7.

A basket change here or there and we're in another close contest. That would be expected against good opponents, but, given the opponent (BC had no outside threat at all), I'd like to have seen that 15 point lead grow into the 20 point range and stay there.

 

[hotshot]

As a former HS and college basketball official, I assure you that Omier isn't being officiated by a different set of rules. At least not in games I've seen including tonight's game, where I think Omier got away with a few more fouls than what were called on him. Far too many times he's late on establishing defensive position before making contact. Doesn't always do a good job of walling up and staying vertical. Brings his hands down and usually that's when the calls are made. And on the offensive end there were 2 instances in the 2nd half where he could've been called for illegal screens. You'll notice Larranaga rarely if ever gets on the officials about calls made against Omier. I think if Coach L had any notion that the refs were picking on him we'd see a lot more outbursts from the HC. I think it all just boils down to Omier having to do a better job of adjusting to how the refs are calling the games.

And by no means am I defending some of the poor officiating I've seen in basketball the last few years, including in the college game. As a matter of fact, I've gotten on them many times on this same message board. I'm just calling it like I see it. Omier has to do better.

Agree totally. In Omier's defense (no pun), he's fighting that inside battle pretty much solo. My point being that a LOT is being expected of him (producing points/rebounds/blocks while exercising emotional/body control). It's not an easy role he's being asked to fulfill.