Blaming coaches for the wrong things.

[LuCane]

I said on Defense. AQM freshman as I said. Burns Freshman. Bush has not played good as of late, maybe he is still injured. Maybe he will be better next year. Perryman, late round at best next year. Howard late round at best maybe in two years, I personally would not draft him at all unless he got better. Porter not showing me much, late round at best this year. Pierre, getting better but. ''''If I had to draft right now not one would be on my list''''. Flowers is very good, but got beat bad today by as everyone says inferior players. One elite player on this team this year and he is out. I'll stick by that. Yes we have a few players that probably will be great, like Coley and some of those freshmen. People are expecting too much out of average players. Again, swap the 2000,01 or 02 defensive players and plug them into this system. Think we lose any of our games? Except possibly FS. I say no!

This guy gets it!

We have at least 8 future NFL players in our 2-deep. And, only 1 is a True Frosh. If you'd like to make some kind of wager on that, let me know.

Lu, you ALWAYS pull out that ridiculous statement. Who are these so called NFL players? Second, every major college team has a 5-10 "nfl"? Is forston considered and NFL player because he is on a practice squad and get a few reps when players go down? There a few elite players on this team. Duke and coley are potential 1st round picks. You love Erick Flowers but I haven't seen him do anything yet that has me believing he is elite. The are three players on defense that have elite potential, AQM and deon bush. Perryman is a good player and probably will make a good NFL LB but he isn't elite. Tracey Howard is close but he is a pure cover corner, not very stout vs the run.

Notice that all of those players are either freshman or sophomores and 2 didn't play today?

But the lack of elite players is problem number 1. The bigger issue is we have HUGE holes ate certain positions and no depth. We claim we are more talented than every team but renfrow couldn't sniff field at UVA and he is ducking starting! Gaines, Cornelius, highsmith, Rodgers, Shayon, porter, Robinson are all not even at JAG level. They might, might start at lower tier div 1 teams.

That's what we are playing with. So you can talk your scheme bull**** up a tree...man, zone, disguising, stemming, blitzing, bla bla. You are limited in what you can do with the ****ty players we have. Plain and simple. End of story

Yes, an NFL player is a guy who get a look by the NFL. Practice squad or otherwise, those are NFL guys. 1 year or 8, those are NFL guys. If the NFL is looking at crafting their talent, those are NFL prospects. You know how I know the difference between Forston and the type of guys Duke fielded today? Those guys won't even get a look.

Off the top of my head, here's the list of guys in our 2-deep:

Offense

Duke
Coley
Waters
Morris
[Maybe Hurns but I'll leave him off]
Ereck Flowers
Brandon Linder
Feliciano

Defense:

Pierre
AQM (though I didn't even count him as part of the 2-deep)
Mccord
[I'm leaving him off, but Porter may very well get a look)
Perryman
Howard
Bush
Artie Burns (the one true Frosh I counted as part of the 2-deep)

I'm sorry for you that you don't see Erek Flowers as a special player. While he makes mistakes, he's a future 1st day pick, if not 1st rounder.
Freshmen or sophomores, it doesn't change my statement. I watched nearly every snap of the Maryland game today. They had True Freshmen making plays. They had 2nd stringers making plays. They were injury-ridden and disrupted VTech's offense in ways that we didn't at *any point* during last week's game.

Here's the thing --> you changed the argument from NFL players to "elite" players. What a ridiculous approach. That's the typical message board straw man argument. No one said all of these guys are elite or even fully developed. They're good enough to be better than they look, though. When in the **** did we need so many elite players to slow down Duke? When did we need elite players to do to VTech what every other team did to them prior and after our game?

Your last sentence is the best. Apparently we are more limited in what we can do than teams who would BEG us to switch rosters.

Ok, so I named you at least 4-5 future NFL players on defense. I left off the two True Frosh and the fringe reaches, even though their talent should count, as other schools are getting quality out of True Frosh and fringe guys. Maryland did today. Have you bothered to take a look at the talent of teams like Maryland, Troy, Duke, etc.? I have. Would you like to discuss that talent vis-a-vis our talent?

 

[Big Sky Cane]

I agree with you passion fastcane.....but we are getting absolutely bludgeoned. What people are saying is the talent cant be THIS bad. What the coaches are asking our players to do, is probably asking to much of them (2 gap D line tech for example).

Lu keeps bringing up the Maryland VS. VT today. They literally have a defense full of scrubs, walkons and freshman playing right now, totally decimated by injury and the coaches played to their strengths and performed circles around our Defense AT VIRGINIA TECH. Just let that marinate. Something is broken.

This is a ******* abomination and Al needs to fix it. I still have faith he will but Jesus he should be embarrassed.

 

[SFbayCane]

Not only is it scheme, but personnel packages that are subpar in our defensive coaching. We still do the exact same things defensively as we did against the gators in week 2. Nothing fresh, nothing new, no wrinkles, nuttin. Once teams got film on it, they knew how to beat our defense. Our coaches are too simplistic.

 

[fastcane]

Good question! Many of them can't tackle worth a crap, no big hitters ,they seem slower than years past, Good question though, but do you fire a coach if you think it's on the players? Maybe his system will work with the right players, maybe it won't. All that I know the D players are not very good. Come on now you can see it a mile away. It all starts with our bad D line, fix that and the system works better, JMO.

They are both bad, it doesnt have to be one or the other. I want elite defense not average. Another coordinator doesnt make these guys a top 20 defense, we need both a new DC and better players.

Are we talented enough to be better than some of the teams who have played VTech and Duke better than we did? Yes or no. It's really that simple.

This "but, we don't have elite players" is just another thing altogether.

Highsmith has more missed tackles than actual tackles, Green for all is heart is limited physically, our line gets pushed 3 yards off the ball, the linebackers cant cover or tackle, safetys take bad angles, Gaines runs like he is in quicksand, a third string DT from Virginia is a starter for us.

So yes if a new DC comes in with a different scheme and plays different players on the team, more to the strengths of some of the current starters we will be better.
But if a new DC comes in and still plays 51, 59, 31, 30, and 78 significant minutes then I dont see it being a whole lot better. Maybe 450 yards given up instead of 550.

Better DC and scheme, better players, thats what I want for Christmas.

It was a simple question.

 

[LuCane]

I agree with you passion fastcane.....but we are getting absolutely bludgeoned. What people are saying is the talent cant be THIS bad. What the coaches are asking our players to do, is probably asking to much of them (2 gap D line tech for example).

Lu keeps bringing up the Maryland VS. VT today. They literally have a defense full of scrubs, walkons and freshman playing right now, totally decimated by injury and the coaches played to their strengths and performed circles around our Defense AT VIRGINIA TECH. Just let that marinate. Something is broken.

This is a ******* abomination and Al needs to fix it. I still have faith he will but Jesus he should be embarrassed.

**** it. Here you go: http://www.canesinsight.com/threads/59192-We-have-less-talent-than-other-teams?p=1681544#post1681544

I can move on to other teams. But, I think you summed it up well.

 

[fastcane]

I have said I would not draft one of them in this years draft, if they could be drafted. Future players like AQM will probably shine, but they are not shining now, that would be a future draft. I haven't watched as many games as in past years, I have been betting money lines and I don't have to study teams like I use to. While watching Miami in the Casino today I watched parts of other games, I didn't see nearly as many broken tackle or missed tackles with other good teams. I put that on the players. I didn't watch the Maryland game, but I do know you can't go by one game played again another team. One team could be juiced for the game. One team could be coming off a big win. One team could be playing a middle game. Many many variables I look for. Did Maryland's front line get after VT's QB? Our front line can't get near a QB, or rarely does. IMO, D lines win championships and ours is close to the bottom in the ACC.

I said on Defense. AQM freshman as I said. Burns Freshman. Bush has not played good as of late, maybe he is still injured. Maybe he will be better next year. Perryman, late round at best next year. Howard late round at best maybe in two years, I personally would not draft him at all unless he got better. Porter not showing me much, late round at best this year. Pierre, getting better but. ''''If I had to draft right now not one would be on my list''''. Flowers is very good, but got beat bad today by as everyone says inferior players. One elite player on this team this year and he is out. I'll stick by that. Yes we have a few players that probably will be great, like Coley and some of those freshmen. People are expecting too much out of average players. Again, swap the 2000,01 or 02 defensive players and plug them into this system. Think we lose any of our games? Except possibly FS. I say no!

This guy gets it!

Lu, you ALWAYS pull out that ridiculous statement. Who are these so called NFL players? Second, every major college team has a 5-10 "nfl"? Is forston considered and NFL player because he is on a practice squad and get a few reps when players go down? There a few elite players on this team. Duke and coley are potential 1st round picks. You love Erick Flowers but I haven't seen him do anything yet that has me believing he is elite. The are three players on defense that have elite potential, AQM and deon bush. Perryman is a good player and probably will make a good NFL LB but he isn't elite. Tracey Howard is close but he is a pure cover corner, not very stout vs the run.

Notice that all of those players are either freshman or sophomores and 2 didn't play today?

But the lack of elite players is problem number 1. The bigger issue is we have HUGE holes ate certain positions and no depth. We claim we are more talented than every team but renfrow couldn't sniff field at UVA and he is ducking starting! Gaines, Cornelius, highsmith, Rodgers, Shayon, porter, Robinson are all not even at JAG level. They might, might start at lower tier div 1 teams.

That's what we are playing with. So you can talk your scheme bull**** up a tree...man, zone, disguising, stemming, blitzing, bla bla. You are limited in what you can do with the ****ty players we have. Plain and simple. End of story

Yes, an NFL player is a guy who get a look by the NFL. Practice squad or otherwise, those are NFL guys. 1 year or 8, those are NFL guys. If the NFL is looking at crafting their talent, those are NFL prospects. You know how I know the difference between Forston and the type of guys Duke fielded today? Those guys won't even get a look.

Off the top of my head, here's the list of guys in our 2-deep:

Offense

Duke
Coley
Waters
Morris
[Maybe Hurns but I'll leave him off]
Ereck Flowers
Brandon Linder
Feliciano

Defense:

Pierre
AQM (though I didn't even count him as part of the 2-deep)
Mccord
[I'm leaving him off, but Porter may very well get a look)
Perryman
Howard
Bush
Artie Burns (the one true Frosh I counted as part of the 2-deep)

I'm sorry for you that you don't see Erek Flowers as a special player. While he makes mistakes, he's a future 1st day pick, if not 1st rounder.
Freshmen or sophomores, it doesn't change my statement. I watched nearly every snap of the Maryland game today. They had True Freshmen making plays. They had 2nd stringers making plays. They were injury-ridden and disrupted VTech's offense in ways that we didn't at *any point* during last week's game.

Here's the thing --> you changed the argument from NFL players to "elite" players. What a ridiculous approach. That's the typical message board straw man argument. No one said all of these guys are elite or even fully developed. They're good enough to be better than they look, though. When in the **** did we need so many elite players to slow down Duke? When did we need elite players to do to VTech what every other team did to them prior and after our game?

Your last sentence is the best. Apparently we are more limited in what we can do than teams who would BEG us to switch rosters.

Ok, so I named you at least 4-5 future NFL players on defense. I left off the two True Frosh and the fringe reaches, even though their talent should count, as other schools are getting quality out of True Frosh and fringe guys. Maryland did today. Have you bothered to take a look at the talent of teams like Maryland, Troy, Duke, etc.? I have. Would you like to discuss that talent vis-a-vis our talent?

 

[fastcane]

lol, you are taking one game out of the season. How did the play against Florida State compared to us? How about Clemson or Wake, they still gave up 24 points today, yes they played better than us against VT. VT also came of a big win against us, they started slow but finished. I would have never bet the VT game after the big win against Miami. Even Bama didn't crush M State, does that mean M state's players better than old miss players who bama dominated? I will be glad to debate college football with you, been betting on games for 30 years and never had a losing season here in Vegas. Going to bed now though, lol. Have a nice night.

I agree with you passion fastcane.....but we are getting absolutely bludgeoned. What people are saying is the talent cant be THIS bad. What the coaches are asking our players to do, is probably asking to much of them (2 gap D line tech for example).

Lu keeps bringing up the Maryland VS. VT today. They literally have a defense full of scrubs, walkons and freshman playing right now, totally decimated by injury and the coaches played to their strengths and performed circles around our Defense AT VIRGINIA TECH. Just let that marinate. Something is broken.

This is a ****ing abomination and Al needs to fix it. I still have faith he will but Jesus he should be embarrassed.

**** it. Here you go: http://www.canesinsight.com/threads/59192-We-have-less-talent-than-other-teams?p=1681544#post1681544

I can move on to other teams. But, I think you summed it up well.

 

[LuCane]

lol, you are taking one game out of the season. How did the play against Florida State compared to us? How about Clemson or Wake, they still gave up 24 points today, yes they played better than us against VT. VT also came of a big win against us, they started slow but finished. I would have never bet the VT game after the big win against Miami. Even Bama didn't crush M State, does that mean M state's players better than old miss players who bama dominated? I will be glad to debate college football with you, been betting on games for 30 years and never had a losing season here in Vegas. Going to bed now though, lol. Have a nice night.

I agree with you passion fastcane.....but we are getting absolutely bludgeoned. What people are saying is the talent cant be THIS bad. What the coaches are asking our players to do, is probably asking to much of them (2 gap D line tech for example).

Lu keeps bringing up the Maryland VS. VT today. They literally have a defense full of scrubs, walkons and freshman playing right now, totally decimated by injury and the coaches played to their strengths and performed circles around our Defense AT VIRGINIA TECH. Just let that marinate. Something is broken.

This is a ****ing abomination and Al needs to fix it. I still have faith he will but Jesus he should be embarrassed.

**** it. Here you go: http://www.canesinsight.com/threads/59192-We-have-less-talent-than-other-teams?p=1681544#post1681544

I can move on to other teams. But, I think you summed it up well.

I showed you but one example. Forget it. You're right. All of our players suck. All these teams have better players than we do. Outta here, too.

 

[FreePawn]

They are both bad, it doesnt have to be one or the other. I want elite defense not average. Another coordinator doesnt make these guys a top 20 defense, we need both a new DC and better players.

Amen. It´s both. Buddy Ryan ain´t gettin this group into the top 50 defenses. But even this group should do better than the last 2 weeks.

 

[fastcane]

Never said that, I said most of them on D are average that are playing right now. Some won't be average in a year or two, but they are now. I am a firm believer in a person makes his own destiny, these kids have to want it like past Canes did. Like I said, plug in the 2001 defensive players into this system and it would work fine. Now put this years D players on the 2001 team, how many losses do we have? I've never been one to beat down on Morris, it hasn't been his fault. His line is a 6 on a scale to Bama's 10. Yes you're right, you gave me one example of how Mar played against VT, I gave you 3 example of how Mar D sucked this year. Please, plug these D players into our 2001 team, how many games do we lose. 3 to 5? Do you think the 2001 players needed all kinds of schemes to be the best? I don't, they beat the **** out of the other team because they were better athletes. It was easy to see.

lol, you are taking one game out of the season. How did the play against Florida State compared to us? How about Clemson or Wake, they still gave up 24 points today, yes they played better than us against VT. VT also came of a big win against us, they started slow but finished. I would have never bet the VT game after the big win against Miami. Even Bama didn't crush M State, does that mean M state's players better than old miss players who bama dominated? I will be glad to debate college football with you, been betting on games for 30 years and never had a losing season here in Vegas. Going to bed now though, lol. Have a nice night.

I agree with you passion fastcane.....but we are getting absolutely bludgeoned. What people are saying is the talent cant be THIS bad. What the coaches are asking our players to do, is probably asking to much of them (2 gap D line tech for example).

Lu keeps bringing up the Maryland VS. VT today. They literally have a defense full of scrubs, walkons and freshman playing right now, totally decimated by injury and the coaches played to their strengths and performed circles around our Defense AT VIRGINIA TECH. Just let that marinate. Something is broken.

This is a ****ing abomination and Al needs to fix it. I still have faith he will but Jesus he should be embarrassed.

**** it. Here you go: http://www.canesinsight.com/threads/59192-We-have-less-talent-than-other-teams?p=1681544#post1681544

I can move on to other teams. But, I think you summed it up well.

I showed you but one example. Forget it. You're right. All of our players suck. All these teams have better players than we do. Outta here, too.