Believe The Hype

[Pennmed Canefan]

Doesn't matter at this point. It's a dead issue. Regardless of how much one thinks he was responsible or not responsible, he had his 4 years as head coach to do whatever he wanted. Regardless, the original point was that people aren't being lenient toward Golden with this year's team as much as they expected too much of those young, poorly talented Shannon teams. They're both kind of stinky and I doubt this team wins more than 6 or so. You don't win off of young talent usually and that's all he has unfortunately. The elder players don't have great ability.

What I will say is that I guarantee that half of the people saying 6 wins is "OK" won't say it's OK when it happens. You'll start to hear all the jargon about "it's not that we lose, it's HOW we lose," and "errors" and "discipline" and "motivation" and "are you telling me we aren't more talented than...." blah blah blah. Bottom line is that there's no attractive way to win 6 games. It sounds palatable now, but it's never going to look good as it is happening. They'll turn on Golden until the next offseason. I just think it's going to take another couple years. It took him one year to ACCUMULATE the young talent, then you have the couple it takes for it to take lumps.

There's an element of hypocrisy there but it's not overly lenient on Golden--it was just expecting too much of Shannon. Realistically both were placed in a situation that is unlikely to be fixed within 3 years and Shannon got his 4 years. I'm sure people will start assassinating Golden as well if we win 6 games this year or 7 next. I dont expect much more than that though for this year. We really have no right being a good team this year.

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that Shannon was here during the regime prior to his and was created part of the mess he had to clean up. That's akin to having Himmler going in to clean up the mess after Hitler ate his self lead salad.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Not exactly.

Years of failures or shortcomings in aspects of any endeavor accumulate to a degree as 'half-assed' effort, mentality, discipline, or effort. It's not that five years ago the guys directly are negatively influencing the class last year - but they indirectly affected them.

I knew a military unit that for years, in spite of numerous commanders - each sent to straighten up the unit - that unit was the sorriest in theater. Bad attitude, bad NCO's, bad officers, and they all fed off each others negative qualities, and in turn passed them down.

Unbelievable how things today affect year after next, three years from now, and even ten years from now.

 

[SantaMonicaTC]

Not exactly.

Years of failures or shortcomings in aspects of any endeavor accumulate to a degree as 'half-assed' effort, mentality, discipline, or effort. It's not that five years ago the guys directly are negatively influencing the class last year - but they indirectly affected them.

I knew a military unit that for years, in spite of numerous commanders - each sent to straighten up the unit - that unit was the sorriest in theater. Bad attitude, bad NCO's, bad officers, and they all fed off each others negative qualities, and in turn passed them down.

Unbelievable how things today affect year after next, three years from now, and even ten years from now.

Sounds pretty silly to me. At temple they had decades of failure yet Golden turned that thing around in 4 years. On that note it would seem like it wouldn't take as long here with the talent available.

 

[umhurricane2511]

Doesn't matter at this point. It's a dead issue. Regardless of how much one thinks he was responsible or not responsible, he had his 4 years as head coach to do whatever he wanted. Regardless, the original point was that people aren't being lenient toward Golden with this year's team as much as they expected too much of those young, poorly talented Shannon teams. They're both kind of stinky and I doubt this team wins more than 6 or so. You don't win off of young talent usually and that's all he has unfortunately. The elder players don't have great ability.

What I will say is that I guarantee that half of the people saying 6 wins is "OK" won't say it's OK when it happens. You'll start to hear all the jargon about "it's not that we lose, it's HOW we lose," and "errors" and "discipline" and "motivation" and "are you telling me we aren't more talented than...." blah blah blah. Bottom line is that there's no attractive way to win 6 games. It sounds palatable now, but it's never going to look good as it is happening. They'll turn on Golden until the next offseason. I just think it's going to take another couple years. It took him one year to ACCUMULATE the young talent, then you have the couple it takes for it to take lumps.

There's an element of hypocrisy there but it's not overly lenient on Golden--it was just expecting too much of Shannon. Realistically both were placed in a situation that is unlikely to be fixed within 3 years and Shannon got his 4 years. I'm sure people will start assassinating Golden as well if we win 6 games this year or 7 next. I dont expect much more than that though for this year. We really have no right being a good team this year.

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that Shannon was here during the regime prior to his and was created part of the mess he had to clean up. That's akin to having Himmler going in to clean up the mess after Hitler ate his self lead salad.

Truth.

 

[jevoasis]

I like this staff a lot. We'll know soon enough how close we are, but I doubt it takes 3 more years to see us at a top 10 level.

 

[Calicanerepresent]

I have some faith in the offense, and the seniors.

we U tough now

but we have a difficult schedule

8 wins, to a bowl game

 

[Duval904]

I have some faith in the offense, and the seniors.

we U tough now

but we have a difficult schedule

8 wins, to a bowl game

difficult schedule?

 

[Bigtip]

the schedule is a preseason top 20 schedule I believe. of course that will all change by the end of the year but for now on paper it is a tough schedule. we also have to go on the road early and often to start the year.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Not exactly.

Years of failures or shortcomings in aspects of any endeavor accumulate to a degree as 'half-assed' effort, mentality, discipline, or effort. It's not that five years ago the guys directly are negatively influencing the class last year - but they indirectly affected them.

I knew a military unit that for years, in spite of numerous commanders - each sent to straighten up the unit - that unit was the sorriest in theater. Bad attitude, bad NCO's, bad officers, and they all fed off each others negative qualities, and in turn passed them down.

Unbelievable how things today affect year after next, three years from now, and even ten years from now.

Sounds pretty silly to me. At temple they had decades of failure yet Golden turned that thing around in 4 years. On that note it would seem like it wouldn't take as long here with the talent available.

Thing is, you haven't been around a major endeavor of any consequence, or your abilities to observe are somewhat diminished or limited. The natural condition in nature is to degrade, even if left alone. Mind sets accumulate, and bad habits, bad work ethics, bad attitudes, and bad execution take a much shorter time to degrade, than good mind sets, good habits, good work ethics, and good attitudes are to establish.

As Golden said, it's easier to recruit good work ethics than to change bad work ethics.

And he's recruiting his *** off.

Think of what you just said. Golden turned it around in 4 years. When you're flat on your back, even if you can lift your head - that's an improvement. And Golden did extremely well at Temple.

He's doing extremely well here at the U.

Considering his first 'year' at Miami was putting out Shannon fires, doing what the administration couldn't as far as dealing with the Shapiro BS, the turmoil and hurtful suspensions, and left with a recruiting vacuum he inherited, as I said previously - I consider THIS to be Golden's first real year.

 

[SantaMonicaTC]

Not exactly.

Years of failures or shortcomings in aspects of any endeavor accumulate to a degree as 'half-assed' effort, mentality, discipline, or effort. It's not that five years ago the guys directly are negatively influencing the class last year - but they indirectly affected them.

I knew a military unit that for years, in spite of numerous commanders - each sent to straighten up the unit - that unit was the sorriest in theater. Bad attitude, bad NCO's, bad officers, and they all fed off each others negative qualities, and in turn passed them down.

Unbelievable how things today affect year after next, three years from now, and even ten years from now.

Sounds pretty silly to me. At temple they had decades of failure yet Golden turned that thing around in 4 years. On that note it would seem like it wouldn't take as long here with the talent available.

Thing is, you haven't been around a major endeavor of any consequence, or your abilities to observe are somewhat diminished or limited. The natural condition in nature is to degrade, even if left alone. Mind sets accumulate, and bad habits, bad work ethics, bad attitudes, and bad execution take a much shorter time to degrade, than good mind sets, good habits, good work ethics, and good attitudes are to establish.

As Golden said, it's easier to recruit good work ethics than to change bad work ethics.

And he's recruiting his *** off.

Think of what you just said. Golden turned it around in 4 years. When you're flat on your back, even if you can lift your head - that's an improvement. And Golden did extremely well at Temple.

He's doing extremely well here at the U.

Considering his first 'year' at Miami was putting out Shannon fires, doing what the administration couldn't as far as dealing with the Shapiro BS, the turmoil and hurtful suspensions, and left with a recruiting vacuum he inherited, as I said previously - I consider THIS to be Golden's first real year.

I know things can change quickly when you have the right people in place. Obviously Golden isn't the kinda guy that can turn things around quickly as we witnessed a lot of the same sub par game day performances here from the coaches that you saw at temple.


Temple clearly had the talent adv over a team like Ohio and still lost. We saw some of the same stuff here in year one.

Your enthusiasim is applicable but with statements like " golden is recruiting his *** off". Your post leave a lot to be desired.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Not exactly.

Years of failures or shortcomings in aspects of any endeavor accumulate to a degree as 'half-assed' effort, mentality, discipline, or effort. It's not that five years ago the guys directly are negatively influencing the class last year - but they indirectly affected them.

I knew a military unit that for years, in spite of numerous commanders - each sent to straighten up the unit - that unit was the sorriest in theater. Bad attitude, bad NCO's, bad officers, and they all fed off each others negative qualities, and in turn passed them down.

Unbelievable how things today affect year after next, three years from now, and even ten years from now.

Sounds pretty silly to me. At temple they had decades of failure yet Golden turned that thing around in 4 years. On that note it would seem like it wouldn't take as long here with the talent available.

Thing is, you haven't been around a major endeavor of any consequence, or your abilities to observe are somewhat diminished or limited. The natural condition in nature is to degrade, even if left alone. Mind sets accumulate, and bad habits, bad work ethics, bad attitudes, and bad execution take a much shorter time to degrade, than good mind sets, good habits, good work ethics, and good attitudes are to establish.

As Golden said, it's easier to recruit good work ethics than to change bad work ethics.

And he's recruiting his *** off.

Think of what you just said. Golden turned it around in 4 years. When you're flat on your back, even if you can lift your head - that's an improvement. And Golden did extremely well at Temple.

He's doing extremely well here at the U.

Considering his first 'year' at Miami was putting out Shannon fires, doing what the administration couldn't as far as dealing with the Shapiro BS, the turmoil and hurtful suspensions, and left with a recruiting vacuum he inherited, as I said previously - I consider THIS to be Golden's first real year.

I know things can change quickly when you have the right people in place. Obviously Golden isn't the kinda guy that can turn things around quickly as we witnessed a lot of the same sub par game day performances here from the coaches that you saw at temple.


Temple clearly had the talent adv over a team like Ohio and still lost. We saw some of the same stuff here in year one.

Your enthusiasim is applicable but with statements like " golden is recruiting his *** off". Your post leave a lot to be desired.

Again, your very limited observations are giving you a very limited understanding of how things work. I didn't play football, and thus I lean heavily on posters here to provide insights on various terminologies, schemes, and especially 'inside' information and analysis.

I do know men. I do know what it takes to get men to work together and defeat other men who are determined to work together, but I did so with unconventional forces in the military. The kill ratio of the American soldier was 4:1. Not bad.

Our group went to work with illiterates. Couldn't read or write, and we had a language barrier. Teaching often enough was with a stick and dirt. Unlike the American army, we had cast-off rifles from WWII for them to use. These men had no cultural or historical understanding of how they fit in the international picture, so we worked with what they did understand.

We had to start from the ground up.

These backward, illiterate men using previous generations equipment accomplished NOT a 4:1 kill ration like American soldiers with artillery and air support, but by their own devices alone, accomplished a documented 33:1 kill ratio. So I know a bit about men.

Golden is simultaneously setting a foundation, a good foundation, and he's building a good relationship with his supply lines. His communications are increasing exponentially over what he inherited.

You talk $#!t. It's only because you don't understand the mechanisms at work.

Something for you to think about - it's never where you are. It's how far you've come, and how well you're progressing toward your goal.

Don't worry, once your pubes start coming in and you gain some maturity, you'll see that there's a whole big world out there you don't know diddly-$#!T about. And THEN you can start taking a little time to THINK.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

I know things can change quickly when you have the right people in place. Obviously Golden isn't the kinda guy that can turn things around quickly as we witnessed a lot of the same sub par game day performances here from the coaches that you saw at temple.


Temple clearly had the talent adv over a team like Ohio and still lost. We saw some of the same stuff here in year one.

what sub par game performances?

 

[maximegauthierl]

Just read a copy of Athon CFB Preview. They say 6-6. Bright future with a young team and promising coach but too young, too many seniors lost and a rough schedule.

Agree with it. That wont stop the DBC Miami mentality of 10 wins or GTFOH mentality this fanbase is afflicted with...

That all seems right to me. People need to chill out a bit. You just cannot overtate the mess Golden has been brought up in and to even compare it to Meyer walking into Florida or Saban in Alabama is plain stupid talk to me. Anything above .500 this year would be excellent, no matter what anyone says here. It is insanity to believe we'll win 10... We all have a bit of beef with the players that left last year and after all they did here, that's fair to say the least. But the reality is we lost basically half of our starters if not more, and that none of the players who will replace them are notably better right NOW. They might very well be in 3-4 years (no question Howard ends up a better player than Mike Williams), but to believe all the incoming freshmen and sophomores will make us a better team right away is too optimistic, borderline irrealistic.

Just give the man some time... No question in my mind we are in a better spot right now than we were a year ago. Might not be a better team for next season, but c'mon, top 10 recruiting class for 2013, looking great for 2014 despite the dark cloud of the sanctions over our heads, nice buzz around the team, the culture finally looking like it's changed from country club to hard work and dedication club... BE PATIENT GOD DAMMIT!

 

[Bigtip]

the smart money says 6-7 wins (reg season). of course we could surprise. that would depend on Morris and 1-2 WRs taking a huge leap, Duke making a immediate significant impact and the defense playing much better (which I think will happen)

that is just too many unknowns to expect better than 6 or 7 wins right now

 

[IowaCane16]

Im expecting 7 wins, will be happy with 8 and wouldn't be surprised if we only won 6.

My expectations as well.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Do others here think that EXPECTING six or seven wins is logical, but that it may be reasonably POSSIBLE to win a couple more than that?

The only reason I am feeling that we stand a fair chance of winning a couple more is due to the new mindset, better on-field leadership, greater overall strength, much greater endurance, another year with the new systems, two quarterbacks that have had a good year with Fisch, and the riddance of what I would assume would be negativism by some of the holdover players from the previous staff.

I look at last year and think "So close. So close on so many games." A couple good shutdown corners, a couple of safeties who just cover their assignments, a couple less interceptions, a couple more 3-yard pushes, a couple less offsides, and we are 9-3.

Six wins expected.

But I won't be shocked if we win more. Sometimes the planets all line up just right, the ball bounces just right, and the efforts all come together at the perfect moments.

Like fingers on a hand.

 

[aintnothangbutacane]

Just read a copy of Athon CFB Preview. They say 6-6. Bright future with a young team and promising coach but too young, too many seniors lost and a rough schedule.

Agree with it. That wont stop the DBC Miami mentality of 10 wins or GTFOH mentality this fanbase is afflicted with...

That all seems right to me. People need to chill out a bit. You just cannot overtate the mess Golden has been brought up in and to even compare it to Meyer walking into Florida or Saban in Alabama is plain stupid talk to me. Anything above .500 this year would be excellent, no matter what anyone says here. It is insanity to believe we'll win 10... We all have a bit of beef with the players that left last year and after all they did here, that's fair to say the least. But the reality is we lost basically half of our starters if not more, and that none of the players who will replace them are notably better right NOW. They might very well be in 3-4 years (no question Howard ends up a better player than Mike Williams), but to believe all the incoming freshmen and sophomores will make us a better team right away is too optimistic, borderline irrealistic.

Just give the man some time... No question in my mind we are in a better spot right now than we were a year ago. Might not be a better team for next season, but c'mon, top 10 recruiting class for 2013, looking great for 2014 despite the dark cloud of the sanctions over our heads, nice buzz around the team, the culture finally looking like it's changed from country club to hard work and dedication club... BE PATIENT GOD DAMMIT!

Lets pump the breaks a little. Mike London won 8 games in his 2nd year at UVA. You dont walk into a new situation at UVA at any point and its better than walking into a new situation at Miami. He shouldnt be expected to win 9 or 10 games. But expecting an improvement and to win 7 or 8 should not be earth shattering.

He shouldnt be crowned for the way he talks and presents himself but shouldnt be fired within the next 2-3 years either. However, the expectations being set at or below .500 when he is supposed to be an upgrade is a little over the top.

 

[Dandycane]

Just read a copy of Athon CFB Preview. They say 6-6. Bright future with a young team and promising coach but too young, too many seniors lost and a rough schedule.

Agree with it. That wont stop the DBC Miami mentality of 10 wins or GTFOH mentality this fanbase is afflicted with...

That all seems right to me. People need to chill out a bit. You just cannot overtate the mess Golden has been brought up in and to even compare it to Meyer walking into Florida or Saban in Alabama is plain stupid talk to me. Anything above .500 this year would be excellent, no matter what anyone says here. It is insanity to believe we'll win 10... We all have a bit of beef with the players that left last year and after all they did here, that's fair to say the least. But the reality is we lost basically half of our starters if not more, and that none of the players who will replace them are notably better right NOW. They might very well be in 3-4 years (no question Howard ends up a better player than Mike Williams), but to believe all the incoming freshmen and sophomores will make us a better team right away is too optimistic, borderline irrealistic.

Just give the man some time... No question in my mind we are in a better spot right now than we were a year ago. Might not be a better team for next season, but c'mon, top 10 recruiting class for 2013, looking great for 2014 despite the dark cloud of the sanctions over our heads, nice buzz around the team, the culture finally looking like it's changed from country club to hard work and dedication club... BE PATIENT GOD DAMMIT!

Lets pump the breaks a little. Mike London won 8 games in his 2nd year at UVA. You dont walk into a new situation at UVA at any point and its better than walking into a new situation at Miami. He shouldnt be expected to win 9 or 10 games. But expecting an improvement and to win 7 or 8 should not be earth shattering.

He shouldnt be crowned for the way he talks and presents himself but shouldnt be fired within the next 2-3 years either. However, the expectations being set at or below .500 when he is supposed to be an upgrade is a little over the top.

I don't get this comment at all. Once again, you've placed this program on a pedestal from which it was knocked off of 6 or 7 years ago. It doesn't run on auto pilot.

Golden walked into a program infested with neglect, mental rot, scandal and a recruiting disaster in the making. A mess.

 

[Consigliere]

I know I don't post a lot but this thread is where I will take the bait.

Last year we won 6 games, we lost 6 games. It was a terrible season by “Miami” standards but we haven’t been “Miami” in a long time. In the 6 games we lost, all were lost by 8 points or less for an average of 5.5 points/per loss. That is one possession. Things really didn’t go our way too much last season, remember the highlights:

Maryland

- Mike James fumble before the half, Maryland returns it for a touchdown

Kansas State

- The goal line stand and Jacory Harris’s inability to score

Virginia Tech

- The whiff tackle by Sean Spence (I think it was him) on Logan Thomas on 4th and 1.

Florida State

- Greg Reid returns an 83 yard punt with a 1:14 left in the half

**Please note that we all know about the X players being suspended / ineligible this year**

Yes last year sucked and things didn’t go our way. The Nevin Shapiro stuff still affects our program and will affect it until the NCAA decides to act (but let’s not dwell on the unknown).

Right now our program is rebuilding, we will continue to rebuild till it is done right. It doesn’t matter if it takes 10 years, until done properly…you will still rebuild. As for the man in charge…It appears that Golden is bringing in a ton of talent and with his U Tough program, things appear to be on the right track. I truly believe the man knows how to develop a program and has a plan in place.

I think that Golden can build a great product but I don’t know how quickly he can transform one that is in place. Eventually this will be 100% Golden’s team with all his players, this IMO is how Golden is able to have ultimate success. I don’t think he can mold things in place so well (i.e. transform players from the old regime) but I do think when he builds it his way, he will have the results we are looking for.

Expectations for 2012:

The short answer is I don’t know.

The long answer is I expect a stronger (mentally and physically) and more disciplined team. I expect that the ball will bounce our way this year unlike last year. I don’t know what that means in terms of wins but I do think we will be improved greatly.

The things that still will hurt our development are our inexperience. Over half our team will have one year or less experience and that tends to be a bad thing.

So my expectations are improvement and a better second half of the season for 2012. I don’t think this is our year but overall improvement will occur.

 

[umhurricane2511]

I know I don't post a lot but this thread is where I will take the bait.

Last year we won 6 games, we lost 6 games. It was a terrible season by “Miami” standards but we haven’t been “Miami” in a long time. In the 6 games we lost, all were lost by 8 points or less for an average of 5.5 points/per loss. That is one possession. Things really didn’t go our way too much last season, remember the highlights:

Maryland

- Mike James fumble before the half, Maryland returns it for a touchdown

Kansas State

- The goal line stand and Jacory Harris’s inability to score

Virginia Tech

- The whiff tackle by Sean Spence (I think it was him) on Logan Thomas on 4th and 1.

Florida State

- Greg Reid returns an 83 yard punt with a 1:14 left in the half

**Please note that we all know about the X players being suspended / ineligible this year**

Yes last year sucked and things didn’t go our way. The Nevin Shapiro stuff still affects our program and will affect it until the NCAA decides to act (but let’s not dwell on the unknown).

Right now our program is rebuilding, we will continue to rebuild till it is done right. It doesn’t matter if it takes 10 years, until done properly…you will still rebuild. As for the man in charge…It appears that Golden is bringing in a ton of talent and with his U Tough program, things appear to be on the right track. I truly believe the man knows how to develop a program and has a plan in place.

I think that Golden can build a great product but I don’t know how quickly he can transform one that is in place. Eventually this will be 100% Golden’s team with all his players, this IMO is how Golden is able to have ultimate success. I don’t think he can mold things in place so well (i.e. transform players from the old regime) but I do think when he builds it his way, he will have the results we are looking for.

Expectations for 2012:

The short answer is I don’t know.

The long answer is I expect a stronger (mentally and physically) and more disciplined team. I expect that the ball will bounce our way this year unlike last year. I don’t know what that means in terms of wins but I do think we will be improved greatly.

The things that still will hurt our development are our inexperience. Over half our team will have one year or less experience and that tends to be a bad thing.

So my expectations are improvement and a better second half of the season for 2012. I don’t think this is our year but overall improvement will occur.

Says the guy with a post count of "1". lulz

But I agree with pretty much everything you said. Patience is key (along with the NCAA stuff) to use seeing a Miami product we can be proud of again.

My advice to you: Post more.