AL Golden explains UM's Defensive Philosophy

[CyberCane]

Can we just disguise our pre-snap look every once and while? All I ask!

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

I think the de covering wr thing is overblown. The "DE" is generally a hybrid linebacker but we haven't had the personnel to facilitate that so you see a guy like Shayon Green out there. 34 defenses at the pro level frequently kick that linebacker out and/or ask inside linebackers to transition receivers through. Watch a 49er or Steeler game for instance.

I don't think our coaches have invented the only fatally flawed defense in the history of football. They aren't inventing a new scheme. They just haven't proven that they can get our guys to execute. I don't care what they run but if you can't execute it you're done. I am on board with the theory that we might be asking guys to do too much, but I don't think we're inventing a defense that can't work. If I had to pick one problem that I'd say is #1 it is that the coaches in their quest to be "multiple" in every respect refuse to get good at any one thing with a core group of players. It's basically the anti-Shannon approach for reference.

 

[FullyERicht]

Part of why they split OLBs out is bc they are absolutely adament about showing a 2-high safety look at the snap.

In other words, they don't want to "give away" their coverage by bringing a safety up. Ironically, they are completely giving away that it's either cover 2 or cover 3, bc any of the man coverages with single high or two high safeties would require Shayon Greene man-man with a receiver and the opposing team knows that's not going to happen.

It is for this reason that Saban plays nickel 4-2-5 often as his base defense: it allows him to show a cover 2 look pre snap, while having DBs show man coverage.

I sometimes feel like we have no nickel package.

 

[niner]

I think the de covering wr thing is overblown. The "DE" is generally a hybrid linebacker but we haven't had the personnel to facilitate that so you see a guy like Shayon Green out there. 34 defenses at the pro level frequently kick that linebacker out and/or ask inside linebackers to transition receivers through. Watch a 49er or Steeler game for instance.

I don't think our coaches have invented the only fatally flawed defense in the history of football. They aren't inventing a new scheme. They just haven't proven that they can get our guys to execute. I don't care what they run but if you can't execute it you're done. I am on board with the theory that we might be asking guys to do too much, but I don't think we're inventing a defense that can't work. If I had to pick one problem that I'd say is #1 it is that the coaches in their quest to be "multiple" in every respect refuse to get good at any one thing with a core group of players. It's basically the anti-Shannon approach for reference.

This is on point

 

[2Focusd804]

I think the de covering wr thing is overblown. The "DE" is generally a hybrid linebacker but we haven't had the personnel to facilitate that so you see a guy like Shayon Green out there. 34 defenses at the pro level frequently kick that linebacker out and/or ask inside linebackers to transition receivers through. Watch a 49er or Steeler game for instance.

I don't think our coaches have invented the only fatally flawed defense in the history of football. They aren't inventing a new scheme. They just haven't proven that they can get our guys to execute. I don't care what they run but if you can't execute it you're done. I am on board with the theory that we might be asking guys to do too much, but I don't think we're inventing a defense that can't work. If I had to pick one problem that I'd say is #1 it is that the coaches in their quest to be "multiple" in every respect refuse to get good at any one thing with a core group of players. It's basically the anti-Shannon approach for reference.

shayon isn't a hybrid anything. dude was a run stuffing DE with 2 bad knees and struggled to play in space. the reason that so many people are ****ed about the defense isn't b/c we run a 3-4 (although I think a 4-3 fits our recruiting base better) its b/c the coaches stubbornly run it even tho everyone could see we didn't have the personnel for it. shayon green should NEVER be asked to walk out on slot WR and cover in space.

not as much as u think. a lot the time the safety walks down on a slot WR, not the OLB and you never see a DE kick out on a slot. also most defenses don't stay in a base defense when an offense is running 3 or 4 WR sets either. don't forget college football was wider hashes than the NFL

 

[Ibis Wingz]

AL Golden explains UM's Defensive Philosophy for the program in this Video from last fall. He seems very steadfast in his resolve to stick with it. But overall this will provide very good insight into the Man's vision for the future of the defense ( unfortunately it may remain more of the same from the smartest guys in the room ).

[video=youtube_share;oxMqjaryUcQ]http://youtu.be/oxMqjaryUcQ[/video]

 

[deleted3746]

AL Golden explains UM's Defensive Philosophy for the program in this Video from last fall. He seems very steadfast in his resolve to stick with it. But overall this will provide very good insight into the Man's vision for the future of the defense ( unfortunately it may remain more of the same from the smartest guys in the room ).

[video=youtube_share;oxMqjaryUcQ]http://youtu.be/oxMqjaryUcQ[/video]

DannyBoyCane = HurricaneNick?

 

[Ibis Wingz]

AL Golden explains UM's Defensive Philosophy for the program in this Video from last fall. He seems very steadfast in his resolve to stick with it. But overall this will provide very good insight into the Man's vision for the future of the defense ( unfortunately it may remain more of the same from the smartest guys in the room ).

[video=youtube_share;oxMqjaryUcQ]http://youtu.be/oxMqjaryUcQ[/video]

DannyBoyCane = HurricaneNick?

DBC knows more football than HurricaneRick and is all about the U.

 

[weownfsu]

I think the de covering wr thing is overblown. The "DE" is generally a hybrid linebacker but we haven't had the personnel to facilitate that so you see a guy like Shayon Green out there. 34 defenses at the pro level frequently kick that linebacker out and/or ask inside linebackers to transition receivers through. Watch a 49er or Steeler game for instance.

I don't think our coaches have invented the only fatally flawed defense in the history of football. They aren't inventing a new scheme. They just haven't proven that they can get our guys to execute. I don't care what they run but if you can't execute it you're done. I am on board with the theory that we might be asking guys to do too much, but I don't think we're inventing a defense that can't work. If I had to pick one problem that I'd say is #1 it is that the coaches in their quest to be "multiple" in every respect refuse to get good at any one thing with a core group of players. It's basically the anti-Shannon approach for reference.

If we don't have the personnel to facilitate it, then we shouldn't be doing it. Plus, Shayon Greene was one of the least athletic starting DE's we have ever had, so the fact that the corches thought it was good idea to use him to do that is pretty disturbing. And what NFL teams do doesn't really matter, because it's very difficult to replicate at the college level for a huge number of reasons.

 

[cane since birth]

The thing is the 3-4 works. Most of the really good defenses on the college and professional level use it. In college, Alabama, LSU, FSU, just to name a few use it. In the NFL the top 4 that come to mind, SF, Seattle, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore use it. The idea works. I think we just play way too passive. Lining up 7-10 yds off the WRs is retarded. Undisguised blitzes are retarded. We show our hand and the other team knows exactly what we are doing.

***** walking a safety down and having him blitz with soft coverage. I think we need to bring our safeties down and play press. Sometimes the safety blitzes and sometimes they back off in coverage.

We have the talent to run it NOW.

We need to let the DL play not just take up space and occupy an OL.

Bama says they run a 34, but they mainly run the 43. Saban even said in an article somewhere that he tell recruits they are primarily 34 because it is more appealing for the DE's they want to tell them they could be playing 34 olb instead of 43 de, which is much more appealing...

Here ya go:

“We probably play 80 percent 4-3,” Coach Nick Saban acknowledged in December.

“But we're playing against so much three and four wideouts all the time, we're in nickel or dime. That's where the 3-4 defense is not really our base defense. You can pass rush better out of some kind of even front or flex front.”

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2013/01/nick_saban_says_hes_still_comm.html

Nick Saban recognizes the need to adjust when the other teams go nickel and dime. We stay in our base and cover their 3rd and 4th guy with DL. But yeah, Al Golden's defense is so much like Nick Saban's

they used to be similar but these past couple of seasons he (saban) started to play more 4-3 and nickel to, as he said, adapt to the 3-4 receivers sets, which we rarely do (my other knock on the D), im hoping we play more nickel in 3-4 receiver sets in early down situations this year, last year we seemed to only play nickel when it was obvious passing downs

Why couldn't Bama just recruit better players? I've been told players are to blame when this system doesn't work. Saban and these crazy adjustments.

I think the players have a lot to do with this scheme working, we have the players this year, no more green, cornilious, rogers, gaines and highsmith playing, if there isnt any improvement at all this season then it is the scheme or the coaching or both

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

I think the de covering wr thing is overblown. The "DE" is generally a hybrid linebacker but we haven't had the personnel to facilitate that so you see a guy like Shayon Green out there. 34 defenses at the pro level frequently kick that linebacker out and/or ask inside linebackers to transition receivers through. Watch a 49er or Steeler game for instance.

I don't think our coaches have invented the only fatally flawed defense in the history of football. They aren't inventing a new scheme. They just haven't proven that they can get our guys to execute. I don't care what they run but if you can't execute it you're done. I am on board with the theory that we might be asking guys to do too much, but I don't think we're inventing a defense that can't work. If I had to pick one problem that I'd say is #1 it is that the coaches in their quest to be "multiple" in every respect refuse to get good at any one thing with a core group of players. It's basically the anti-Shannon approach for reference.

shayon isn't a hybrid anything. dude was a run stuffing DE with 2 bad knees and struggled to play in space. the reason that so many people are ****ed about the defense isn't b/c we run a 3-4 (although I think a 4-3 fits our recruiting base better) its b/c the coaches stubbornly run it even tho everyone could see we didn't have the personnel for it. shayon green should NEVER be asked to walk out on slot WR and cover in space.

not as much as u think. a lot the time the safety walks down on a slot WR, not the OLB and you never see a DE kick out on a slot. also most defenses don't stay in a base defense when an offense is running 3 or 4 WR sets either. don't forget college football was wider hashes than the NFL

The coaches want to run 3-4. That we know. You have to make the switch at some point if you are going to do it, and your personnel may not be ideal at that point. The question is whether you are going to wait until you have the ideal personnel or make the change earlier so that the younger guys that you want at those spots (Kamalu and AQM and figs and McCord for instance) have time in the system. It's of benefit to AQM that he has had a year in that system vs making the change this spring.

I personally prefer 43, but a lot of coaches are stubborn. Recruit for your system and I don't care--if they don't do that they'll fail. Personnel was going to be a problem last year no matter what. That's why the lack of improvement from year's beginning to end was a bigger deal than the overall success to me at least.

 

[INCaneFan]

BS and more BS. I'd rather he just say he's trying to figure what works with the players we have rather than more farts in the air coming out of his mouth.

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

I think the de covering wr thing is overblown. The "DE" is generally a hybrid linebacker but we haven't had the personnel to facilitate that so you see a guy like Shayon Green out there. 34 defenses at the pro level frequently kick that linebacker out and/or ask inside linebackers to transition receivers through. Watch a 49er or Steeler game for instance.

I don't think our coaches have invented the only fatally flawed defense in the history of football. They aren't inventing a new scheme. They just haven't proven that they can get our guys to execute. I don't care what they run but if you can't execute it you're done. I am on board with the theory that we might be asking guys to do too much, but I don't think we're inventing a defense that can't work. If I had to pick one problem that I'd say is #1 it is that the coaches in their quest to be "multiple" in every respect refuse to get good at any one thing with a core group of players. It's basically the anti-Shannon approach for reference.

If we don't have the personnel to facilitate it, then we shouldn't be doing it. Plus, Shayon Greene was one of the least athletic starting DE's we have ever had, so the fact that the corches thought it was good idea to use him to do that is pretty disturbing. And what NFL teams do doesn't really matter, because it's very difficult to replicate at the college level for a huge number of reasons.

1. As stated elsewhere, you don't always make a system change when the personnel is perfect. You might want the underclass men to take lumps in what they're going to run rather than take lumps in what they're not going to run.

2. Nobody said they thought it was a great idea to have Green play the role but Muhammad was 215 lbs, Gilbert was new and injured as well, and McCord couldn't even line up (arguably the bigger problem, but I digress). In other words Green might be the best candidate whether they like it or not.

3. What pros do IS relevant because it tells you that they're not inventing a defense as many seem to suggest in their "scheme" diatribes. I watch more random pro than random college. Surely some colleges do this too but I couldn't name them for you because I don't watch Clemson and Ohio and Colorado. You're right that this may all ultimately fail (and has so far) but I again think it'll be more about their philosophy (being married to the idea of being big, deep, and multiple) and their execution than their play book.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Personnel was going to be a problem last year no matter what. That's why the lack of improvement from year's beginning to end was a bigger deal than the overall success to me at least.

The regression imo was partly due to the lack of depth taking it's toll as the season wore on which was exasperated by the offenses inability to convert 3rd downs and sustain drives.

 

[weownfsu]

I think the de covering wr thing is overblown. The "DE" is generally a hybrid linebacker but we haven't had the personnel to facilitate that so you see a guy like Shayon Green out there. 34 defenses at the pro level frequently kick that linebacker out and/or ask inside linebackers to transition receivers through. Watch a 49er or Steeler game for instance.

I don't think our coaches have invented the only fatally flawed defense in the history of football. They aren't inventing a new scheme. They just haven't proven that they can get our guys to execute. I don't care what they run but if you can't execute it you're done. I am on board with the theory that we might be asking guys to do too much, but I don't think we're inventing a defense that can't work. If I had to pick one problem that I'd say is #1 it is that the coaches in their quest to be "multiple" in every respect refuse to get good at any one thing with a core group of players. It's basically the anti-Shannon approach for reference.

If we don't have the personnel to facilitate it, then we shouldn't be doing it. Plus, Shayon Greene was one of the least athletic starting DE's we have ever had, so the fact that the corches thought it was good idea to use him to do that is pretty disturbing. And what NFL teams do doesn't really matter, because it's very difficult to replicate at the college level for a huge number of reasons.

1. As stated elsewhere, you don't always make a system change when the personnel is perfect. You might want the underclass men to take lumps in what they're going to run rather than take lumps in what they're not going to run.

2. Nobody said they thought it was a great idea to have Green play the role but Muhammad was 215 lbs, Gilbert was new and injured as well, and McCord couldn't even line up (arguably the bigger problem, but I digress). In other words Green might be the best candidate whether they like it or not.

3. What pros do IS relevant because it tells you that they're not inventing a defense as many seem to suggest in their "scheme" diatribes. I watch more random pro than random college. Surely some colleges do this too but I couldn't name them for you because I don't watch Clemson and Ohio and Colorado. You're right that this may all ultimately fail (and has so far) but I again think it'll be more about their philosophy (being married to the idea of being big, deep, and multiple) and their execution than their play book.

1. That sounds nice, except we have fifth year seniors doing all kinds of **** that doesn't work. Over and over and over again.

2. If Shayon Greene is your best DE/OLB candidate to cover WR's and RB's, then you shouldn't be doing it. Period. It's absurd.

3. Not really sure of the difference.

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

Personnel was going to be a problem last year no matter what. That's why the lack of improvement from year's beginning to end was a bigger deal than the overall success to me at least.

The regression imo was partly due to the lack of depth taking it's toll as the season wore on which was exasperated by the offenses inability to convert 3rd downs and sustain drives.

That would be nice but I think it was moreso about us starting to play teams who could spread us out and take advantage of us in the pass game. That's why unc was so critical for me--we had to dominate that game or we were pretending. When Renner picked us apart with ease you knew the deal. UF was a conventional offense with bad passing so they played to our strength.

They had he opportunity to mitigate the depth and offense concerns by playing more guys and not running hurry up and they chose not to. I don't think it would've mattered. Once the teams started spreading us up and making us look silly the false bravado left and the players lost confidence in what they were doing.

 

[NVA CANE]

Can someone explain to me why we continued to 2 gap against Wake Forest when they spread their lineman wide. Our Dline were practically being invited to sack the QB and yet there they were 2 gapping part of the empty space in front of them. Anyone know what golden and Dorito were thinking or their reasoning for that?

 

[Coach Macho]

I talked to D'Onofrio 1-on-1 when he came by one of our practices in the Spring.

They like the 3-4 cause it's flexible and symmetrical. Nothing wrong with that. I like it for the same reasons.

He has plenty of good concepts. He certainly "gets it" and has all the answers for how a defense can defend an offense which only leads me to believe one of a few things...

A) He runs too much stuff. Too much complexity. They run combo coverages, they run C2, C4, C3, man, they 1-gap, they 2-gap, over front, under front, odd front, etc etc etc.
B) He's a poor teacher. Doubtful.
C) He runs the wrong defense at the wrong times. Not good at picking up tendencies, calling plays at opportune times, etc.
D) Or maybe it's just talent. *shrug* I find it hard to believe that our talent is 115th in the nation though.


You can have all the **** concepts in the world but the fact is that they don't all work against every offensive set.

I'll learn more after the University of Miami coaching social on Wednesday.

 

[niner]

Can someone explain to me why we continued to 2 gap against Wake Forest when they spread their lineman wide. Our Dline were practically being invited to sack the QB and yet there they were 2 gapping part of the empty space in front of them. Anyone know what golden and Dorito were thinking or their reasoning for that?

You sound like you have a lot coaching experience. It will difficult for anyone here to answer such an in depth question about that one play in that one game from last season.

Any chance you can ask about that at the next clinic you attend?

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

I talked to D'Onofrio 1-on-1 when he came by one of our practices in the Spring.

They like the 3-4 cause it's flexible and symmetrical. Nothing wrong with that. I like it for the same reasons.

He has plenty of good concepts. He certainly "gets it" and has all the answers for how a defense can defend an offense which only leads me to believe one of a few things...

A) He runs too much stuff. Too much complexity. They run combo coverages, they run C2, C4, C3, man, they 1-gap, they 2-gap, over front, under front, odd front, etc etc etc.
B) He's a poor teacher. Doubtful.
C) He runs the wrong defense at the wrong times. Not good at picking up tendencies, calling plays at opportune times, etc.
D) Or maybe it's just talent. *shrug* I find it hard to believe that our talent is 115th in the nation though.


You can have all the **** concepts in the world but the fact is that they don't all work against every offensive set.

I'll learn more after the University of Miami coaching social on Wednesday.

Personally I think A's been the big issue with the other component being that they have nothing to turn to when trouble hits because they've never establish any core principles. But the other facet of Dono is that I don't think the players have the faith in him. Sometimes it's not going to work--Saban has those days. We were bound to have even more with our personnel. In those times it takes players' trust in their coach and I don't think these guys believe in Dono. So once trouble hits it snowballs. We need a long stretch of success to create some faith these guys don't have.