3rd down Offense and T.O.P

[DaU83]

TOP is a pretty overrated stat, that said, the defense has to get off the field and give the offense the ball.

The defense caused 27 Turnovers and gave the offense the ball back. That was top 10 nationally and more then Bama, OSU, UL and tied with the vaunted Michigan State defense. They also scored points.
And if the offense wanted the ball more they should have kept it when they had it by converting on 3rds downs.

But I'd like your take on why TOP is overrated.

70% of those TOs came in 40% of our games.. also, VT and DUke? 0 turnovers. The defense not only couldn't get off the field in either of those games, but they didn't get turnovers either to give the offense additional opportunities. The truth is, even when the offense did sustain some drives even if they didn't end up getting points, the defense still couldn't get off the field, so it wasn't necessarily an issue of being "tired".


and TOP is worthless because it doesn't really tell you anything about how "good" an offense is.. as an example.. Denver.. 1st in scoring 21st in TOP .. Seattle 2nd in scoring 15th TOP Dallas 3rd in Scoring 24th in TOP .. Philly 8th in scoring.. dead last in TOP..

TOP just doesn't really tell you anything valuable.... in our case, especially in these last few games, our defense couldn't get off the field.. and if they weren't getting turnovers either, then that's less opportunities our offense had..

We can't expect that the offense is going to score EVERY time they get the ball.. and if you take away a few drives per game, that makes it even worse for them.

I'm curious to know if there's an offensive possession per game stat
EDIT: there's a plays per game stat, we were 122nd.. to be that kind of offense, we need to have a really good defense ..

 

[L A M P]

there's a plays per game stat, we were 122nd.. to be that kind of offense, we need to have a really good defense ..

That's the point.

 

[sebastian91]

A bigger problem is the fact that we continue to allow teams to convert easy first downs on this bend but break defense. I literally wanted to throw a brick at No D Ofrio when I watched from the stands as Wake Forest dink and dunked their way to lengthy drives one lasting six minutes to the point that the second quarter had started and our offense had only one possession all game. On the Flipside to Mr.Op imagine how many points a game we would of scored if we actually got off the field on third down

And what did the offense do with that one possession??? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up...they went 3 and out and held the ball for 1:38, which put the defense right back on the field after they were on the field for 8:34.

Look, no one will argue that defense didn't suck. But if you think the offense was doing much to help them out, you're mistaken.

You do realize that offenses do sometimes go 3 and out and that shouldn't mean that they have to wait an entire quarter for their next opportunity.

Sorry pal, but I think averaging 32 points a game in ACC play is plenty enough to help the defense out.

Interesting how some here have parroted No D Ofrio's philosophy that scoring defense is all that matters yet these same people don't apply the same principle to the offense.

"Some people" isn't me. And sorry pal, but the offense didn't score all of those points. Take away the TDs scored on special teams and defense, and the average in ACC play is less than 27. None of that changes the fact that the offense was converting only 1/3 of their 3rd downs in the last 4 games, and were only doing marginally better than that in the previous 4 ACC games. Anyway, I'm not going to convince you of anything, and I think you're full of *****, too. The defense still sucks, and the offense didn't do much to help them out. Just the way it is...

28.6 to be exact after subtraction of 1 special teams and 2 int tds. As opposed to the 32.75 given up.

"None of that changes the fact that the offense was converting only 1/3 of their 3rd downs in the last 4 games, and were only doing marginally better than that in the previous 4 ACC games"

And none of that changes the fact that this is the least of the issues this year especially with Morris's limitations, Losing your best RB in Duke & your best WR in Dorsett plus breaking in a brand new O coordinator. You do realize that our 3rd down percentage for the 4 ACC games before Duke's injury was .435 and the 4 after was .326.

lmao. You are a massive douchebag.

I'm sure the Duke loss had nothing to do with the 350 plus rushing yards given up but instead it was all the 3 and outs that prevented us from winning.

So the offense is feast or famine.

The defense is just famine. And anyone like you who tries to divert attention and toss blame on anything but the defense and the d coordinator are the ones who are full of *****.

You're wrong. The offense scored 26.75 points per game in ACC play.

Bury your head in the sand all you want, but the offense was not very good either, which did not help the already crappy defense.

 

[Gamineal]

On my....

 

[alnwpi]

TOP is a pretty overrated stat, that said, the defense has to get off the field and give the offense the ball.

The defense caused 27 Turnovers and gave the offense the ball back. That was top 10 nationally and more then Bama, OSU, UL and tied with the vaunted Michigan State defense. They also scored points.
And if the offense wanted the ball more they should have kept it when they had it by converting on 3rds downs.

But I'd like your take on why TOP is overrated.

70% of those TOs came in 40% of our games.. also, VT and DUke? 0 turnovers. The defense not only couldn't get off the field in either of those games, but they didn't get turnovers either to give the offense additional opportunities. The truth is, even when the offense did sustain some drives even if they didn't end up getting points, the defense still couldn't get off the field, so it wasn't necessarily an issue of being "tired".


and TOP is worthless because it doesn't really tell you anything about how "good" an offense is.. as an example.. Denver.. 1st in scoring 21st in TOP .. Seattle 2nd in scoring 15th TOP Dallas 3rd in Scoring 24th in TOP .. Philly 8th in scoring.. dead last in TOP..

TOP just doesn't really tell you anything valuable.... in our case, especially in these last few games, our defense couldn't get off the field.. and if they weren't getting turnovers either, then that's less opportunities our offense had..

We can't expect that the offense is going to score EVERY time they get the ball.. and if you take away a few drives per game, that makes it even worse for them.

I'm curious to know if there's an offensive possession per game stat
EDIT: there's a plays per game stat, we were 122nd.. to be that kind of offense, we need to have a really good defense ..

Out of curiosity, do they keep track of the points per offensive play?

 

[NorthFlaCane]

well we played half our ACC schedule with Dallas Crawford starting at running back

 

[DaU83]

TOP is a pretty overrated stat, that said, the defense has to get off the field and give the offense the ball.

The defense caused 27 Turnovers and gave the offense the ball back. That was top 10 nationally and more then Bama, OSU, UL and tied with the vaunted Michigan State defense. They also scored points.
And if the offense wanted the ball more they should have kept it when they had it by converting on 3rds downs.

But I'd like your take on why TOP is overrated.

70% of those TOs came in 40% of our games.. also, VT and DUke? 0 turnovers. The defense not only couldn't get off the field in either of those games, but they didn't get turnovers either to give the offense additional opportunities. The truth is, even when the offense did sustain some drives even if they didn't end up getting points, the defense still couldn't get off the field, so it wasn't necessarily an issue of being "tired".


and TOP is worthless because it doesn't really tell you anything about how "good" an offense is.. as an example.. Denver.. 1st in scoring 21st in TOP .. Seattle 2nd in scoring 15th TOP Dallas 3rd in Scoring 24th in TOP .. Philly 8th in scoring.. dead last in TOP..

TOP just doesn't really tell you anything valuable.... in our case, especially in these last few games, our defense couldn't get off the field.. and if they weren't getting turnovers either, then that's less opportunities our offense had..

We can't expect that the offense is going to score EVERY time they get the ball.. and if you take away a few drives per game, that makes it even worse for them.

I'm curious to know if there's an offensive possession per game stat
EDIT: there's a plays per game stat, we were 122nd.. to be that kind of offense, we need to have a really good defense ..

Out of curiosity, do they keep track of the points per offensive play?

they do, we're ranked 20th.

 

[Dingaan1828]

Points per play wouldn't mean much. Points per possession would.

 

[zone3cane]

Even w/ the injuries on offense, the Offense wouldve been able to score more points if it wasnt for Goldoritos Defense being WOAT.

All of the blame is on the defense

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Even w/ the injuries on offense, the Offense wouldve been able to score more points if it wasnt for Goldoritos Defense being WOAT.

All of the blame is on the defense

The offense would have been able to score more points if they converted more on 3rd down.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.

 

[Bird4um]

Id like to know the 1st down play calling % pass to run....

Should throw on 1st....at least 1/2 the time.

Too many 1st and 10, 2nd and 9, 3rd and 7....all runs...

 

[zone3cane]

Even w/ the injuries on offense, the Offense wouldve been able to score more points if it wasnt for Goldoritos Defense being WOAT.

All of the blame is on the defense

The offense would have been able to score more points if they converted more on 3rd down.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.

All of the blame is on Goldorito's defense.... why is this so hard for you to grasp?

 

[Mico Jones]

Even w/ the injuries on offense, the Offense wouldve been able to score more points if it wasnt for Goldoritos Defense being WOAT.

All of the blame is on the defense

The offense would have been able to score more points if they converted more on 3rd down.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Lmao. They also would have been able to score more points if they had more opportunities.

**** they would have scored more points if they had a higher scoring percentage.

They would have scored more points if the broke the plane of the endzone more often.

Thanks Mr.Obvious.

Or more accurately, they would have scored more points if the defense wasn't letting the opponent dominate the posession of the ball.

The real point is that they would have had to score a sh*tload more points to make up for all the points the defense is giving up.

 

[sebastian91]

I don't get why it's so difficult for some people here to understand that offense and defense and special teams are all connected. Just dumb. Can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[alnwpi]

Points per play wouldn't mean much. Points per possession would.

True. We do throw away a lot of possessions by giving the ball back so quickly.

 

[SmokeyRone]

Morris was the worst 3rd down QB I've seen this year. Just awful. never learned down and distance, and until the UVA game, never even tried to run for a first.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Even w/ the injuries on offense, the Offense wouldve been able to score more points if it wasnt for Goldoritos Defense being WOAT.

All of the blame is on the defense

The offense would have been able to score more points if they converted more on 3rd down.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Lmao. They also would have been able to score more points if they had more opportunities.

**** they would have scored more points if they had a higher scoring percentage.

They would have scored more points if the broke the plane of the endzone more often.

Thanks Mr.Obvious.

Or more accurately, they would have scored more points if the defense wasn't letting the opponent dominate the posession of the ball.

The real point is that they would have had to score a sh*tload more points to make up for all the points the defense is giving up.

Again, if the offense wanted more "opportunities" they should have capitalized on the opportunities they had when they had they had the chance.
Being that they were the strength of the team, why would they have to depend on the defense to give them the ball back when they could have very well kept it themselves and done something with it other then go fail to convert on critical 3rd down plays 65% of the time.
So even if the defense had made a stop, chances were that the offense would have lost possession of the ball either by punting it back to the other team or turning it over.

 

[DaU83]

Even w/ the injuries on offense, the Offense wouldve been able to score more points if it wasnt for Goldoritos Defense being WOAT.

All of the blame is on the defense

The offense would have been able to score more points if they converted more on 3rd down.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Lmao. They also would have been able to score more points if they had more opportunities.

**** they would have scored more points if they had a higher scoring percentage.

They would have scored more points if the broke the plane of the endzone more often.

Thanks Mr.Obvious.

Or more accurately, they would have scored more points if the defense wasn't letting the opponent dominate the posession of the ball.

The real point is that they would have had to score a sh*tload more points to make up for all the points the defense is giving up.

Again, if the offense wanted more "opportunities" they should have capitalized on the opportunities they had when they had they had the chance.
Being that they were the strength of the team, why would they have to depend on the defense to give them the ball back when they could have very well kept it themselves and done something with it other then go fail to convert on critical 3rd down plays 65% of the time.
So even if the defense had made a stop, chances were that the offense would have lost possession of the ball either by punting it back to the other team or turning it over.

per the stats. the offense did a good job of maximizing their plays, we're ranked 22nd in the country in that stat. That means that the defense needed to get them more plays if we wanted to be ranked even higher in that category.

 

[sebastian91]

per the stats. the offense did a good job of maximizing their plays, we're ranked 22nd in the country in that stat. That means that the defense needed to get them more plays if we wanted to be ranked even higher in that category.

There's no question that the defense not being able to get off the field impacted the offense. That said, there's also no question that the offense's inability to sustain drives and penchant for turning the ball over in the middle of the season had a negative impact on an already crappy defense. Throw in some special teams blunders, and you have a snowball rolling downhill turning into an avalanche. The offense was able to correct the turnover problem, but got worse at sustaining drives (converted only 33% of 3rd downs in last 4 games). When the defense can't get off the field, it becomes even more important for the offense to sustain drives to prevent the avalanche. I would also note that, when the offense was turning the ball over (e.g., against UNC), it was the defense that was bailing them out time and again.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Even w/ the injuries on offense, the Offense wouldve been able to score more points if it wasnt for Goldoritos Defense being WOAT.

All of the blame is on the defense

The offense would have been able to score more points if they converted more on 3rd down.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Lmao. They also would have been able to score more points if they had more opportunities.

**** they would have scored more points if they had a higher scoring percentage.

They would have scored more points if the broke the plane of the endzone more often.

Thanks Mr.Obvious.

Or more accurately, they would have scored more points if the defense wasn't letting the opponent dominate the posession of the ball.

The real point is that they would have had to score a sh*tload more points to make up for all the points the defense is giving up.

Again, if the offense wanted more "opportunities" they should have capitalized on the opportunities they had when they had they had the chance.
Being that they were the strength of the team, why would they have to depend on the defense to give them the ball back when they could have very well kept it themselves and done something with it other then go fail to convert on critical 3rd down plays 65% of the time.
So even if the defense had made a stop, chances were that the offense would have lost possession of the ball either by punting it back to the other team or turning it over.

per the stats. the offense did a good job of maximizing their plays, we're ranked 22nd in the country in that stat. That means that the defense needed to get them more plays if we wanted to be ranked even higher in that category.

what stats are those?

I compiled my own stats... Total plays and Total Punts. FSU was #1 at 26 plays for every punt.. Miami was at #50 with 15 plays for every punt.
Most of the top teams( Bama, OSU, Auburn, UL) were above 20 punts per every play. You can't tell me those offenses were more talented and experienced then ours.
Bottom line the offense underperformed relative to their talent and experience level. Had they maximized their potential, both offensive and defensive results would have improved.