Will Jalen Grimble take the next step this season???????

[CaneAlmighty]

good stuff

2012 d line was the worst University of Miami defensive line I have ever seen in all of my life. I understand that last season this team was playing 1 JR, 2 SO's & 3 FR's in the rotation for most of the season and that is a for sure recipe for disaster. I do believe that the d-line will make a huge jump this season, I even expect to see good things from Cory King unlike most. My only is will Jalen Grimble be able to contribute.

Sack totals of the last 9 years (I am sure it will be very difficult to find a lower total than 13)
2012: 13
2011: 23
2010: 37
2009: 23
2008: 30
2007: 31
2006: 38
2005: 35
2004: 38
2003: 48

Were you around for 1997? That DL was pretty brutal.

Yes I was around. I am from Miami and I grew up, went to school with, and still talk to some of the greatest canes of all time.

Here is 20 years of University of Miami Sack Totals. I could not find the sack totals from 2000-2002, but I am 100% those numbers were great considering those were some of the best defenses this program has ever seen.

1992: 44 (Defensive coordinator Sonny Lubick)
1993: 45 (Defensive coordinator Greg McMackin & Tommy Tuberville)
1994: 42 (Defensive coordinator Sonny Lubick)
1995: 25 (Defensive coordinator Bill Miller)
1996: 34 (Defensive coordinator Bill Miller)
1997: 21 (Defensive coordinator Bill Miller)
1998: 39 (Defensive coordinator Bill Miller)
1999: 45 (Defensive coordinator Greg Schiano)
2000: Not Found (Defensive coordinator Greg Schiano)
2001: Not Found (Defensive coordinator Randy Shannon)
2002: Not Found (Defensive coordinator Randy Shannon)
2003: 48 (Defensive coordinator Randy Shannon)
2004: 38 (Defensive coordinator Randy Shannon)
2005: 35 (Defensive coordinator Randy Shannon)
2006: 38 (Defensive coordinator Randy Shannon)
2007: 31 (Defensive coordinator Tim Walton)
2008: 30 (Defensive coordinator Bill Young)
2009: 23 (Defensive coordinator John Lovett)
2010: 37 (Defensive coordinator John Lovett)
2011: 23 (Defensive coordinator Mark D'Onofrio)
2012: 13 (Defensive coordinator Mark D'Onofrio)

So in the 2 seasons under Mark D'Onofrio he has managed to produce the 1st and 3rd lowest sack totals in the past 20 years of this program. I am a supporter of D'Onofrio and I do believe he needs time to develop his guys but the numbers never lie.

MOAR FACTS!

LOL at trying to compare 2 down years to the dynasty years in an attempt to make a point.

 

[Ghandi]

That's why your theory fails. And again you can't use a 2 year sample to draw any sound conclusion.

Look a couple of posts up. You asked to leave the numbers for the "rebuilding" years out of the loop, which only leaves you a two year sample size. Truth is, his sack# look pretty much the same no matter what sample size you include/pull-out.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Saban @ Alabama, defensive sacks per year average 29. 6 year sample size.
You guys need to just stop with the nonsense.. really just stop.

 

[Ghandi]

Saban @ Alabama, defensive sacks per year average 29. 6 year sample size.
You guys need to just stop with the nonsense.. really just stop.

Try your math again...

'10 - 27
'11 - 30
'12 - 35

Would you like to measure Total Defense like Golden Al says they measure?

 

[datdude81]

A smallish DT needs to be quick and explosive off the snap, which he is not, which hurts him at DE also.

Make or break year for him IMO.

All do respect this is the legitimate issue with this kid...maybe on a different team or different system he may flourish but if I were him if it doesn't work out for him this year
I would go back home and play for Rich Rod...

 

[Consigliere]

My theory is still pretty sound actually. His overall results (and we're just looking at when they've finished rebuilding) show that he wont get +30 sacks on average in a year. That is what Miami fans expect.

Look at what Temple's done (starting in 2011) since he left. The Temple fans ARE STILL LAUGHING AT US for thinking he would be anything different than he was while he was there.

A few questions:

1. Does Temple have message boards? Where are all these Temple fans laughing? I am serious

2. Temple Scoring Defense (last 4 years)

2012: 86th with 31.18 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

(The highest since 2006 his first season but they were the worst in 2005 before their tenure began)

2011: 3rd with 13.92 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

2010: 16th with 19.08 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

2009: 39th with 22.31 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

So 2 years after him they averaged 22.55 PPG, last 2 seasons with him 20.69 PPG.

Why are they laughing? They are back to being a nothing team, like they were before Al and Co. Are they *********?

3. As for the sacks and getting pressure. I don't have expectations (i.e. 45 sacks, 25 sacks, 30 sacks etc.) but the pressure did not exist last year. Let's hope the reason why inexperience and lack of talent at the line because Jethro and Coach D are still here this year.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

My theory is still pretty sound actually. His overall results (and we're just looking at when they've finished rebuilding) show that he wont get +30 sacks on average in a year. That is what Miami fans expect.

Look at what Temple's done (starting in 2011) since he left. The Temple fans ARE STILL LAUGHING AT US for thinking he would be anything different than he was while he was there.

A few questions:

1. Does Temple have message boards? Where are all these Temple fans laughing? I am serious

2. Temple Scoring Defense (last 4 years)

2012: 86th with 31.18 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

(The highest since 2006 his first season but they were the worst in 2005 before their tenure began)

2011: 3rd with 13.92 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

2010: 16th with 19.08 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

2009: 39th with 22.31 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

So 2 years after him they averaged 22.55 PPG, last 2 seasons with him 20.69 PPG.

Why are they laughing? They are back to being a nothing team, like they were before Al and Co. Are they *********?

3. As for the sacks and getting pressure. I don't have expectations (i.e. 45 sacks, 25 sacks, 30 sacks etc.) but the pressure did not exist last year. Let's hope the reason why inexperience and lack of talent at the line because Jethro and Coach D are still here this year.

Well to be fair Temple was in a harder conference this year so it was expected of them to struggle... Can you really compare the scoring of the Big East to Conference USA? Louiville, Rutgers, and Pitt was better than any team they faced in the past... I'm not a defensive analysis but Coach D defense always resembled a bed don't break defense... It seemed like thay always hoped the other team made an error... Last year although we gave up a lot yards there were a lot of games where that proved to work... BC, VT, USF, NCState, etc. But I don't think you can rely on that always... I think the ACC will be much better and every team is going to improve... Our defense needs to step up because its not going to be a cake walk...

 

[Consigliere]

Well to be fair Temple was in a harder conference this year so it was expected of them to struggle... Can you really compare the scoring of the Big East to Conference USA? Louiville, Rutgers, and Pitt was better than any team they faced in the past... I'm not a defensive analysis but Coach D defense always resembled a bed don't break defense... It seemed like thay always hoped the other team made an error... Last year although we gave up a lot yards there were a lot of games where that proved to work... BC, VT, USF, NCState, etc. But I don't think you can rely on that always... I think the ACC will be much better and every team is going to improve... Our defense needs to step up because its not going to be a cake walk...

You are 100% correct.

I think people should be skeptical of the defense because of the points, no one is jerking off to the amount of yards we let up but we really need to be concerned with scoring.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Saban @ Alabama, defensive sacks per year average 29. 6 year sample size.
You guys need to just stop with the nonsense.. really just stop.

Try your math again...

'10 - 27
'11 - 30
'12 - 35

Would you like to measure Total Defense like Golden Al says they measure?

wow so taking those 3 years he's @ 31. Take his first 2 seasons after rebuild like we're doing with D'onofrio and its 28.5..
and thats with Bama playing 14 and 13 game seasons with SEC conference championships and bowl games. So you point is mute.

 

[Ghandi]

My theory is still pretty sound actually. His overall results (and we're just looking at when they've finished rebuilding) show that he wont get +30 sacks on average in a year. That is what Miami fans expect.

Look at what Temple's done (starting in 2011) since he left. The Temple fans ARE STILL LAUGHING AT US for thinking he would be anything different than he was while he was there.

A few questions:

1. Does Temple have message boards? Where are all these Temple fans laughing? I am serious

2. Temple Scoring Defense (last 4 years)

2012: 86th with 31.18 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2012&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

(The highest since 2006 his first season but they were the worst in 2005 before their tenure began)

2011: 3rd with 13.92 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

2010: 16th with 19.08 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

2009: 39th with 22.31 PPG
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

So 2 years after him they averaged 22.55 PPG, last 2 seasons with him 20.69 PPG.

Why are they laughing? They are back to being a nothing team, like they were before Al and Co. Are they *********?

3. As for the sacks and getting pressure. I don't have expectations (i.e. 45 sacks, 25 sacks, 30 sacks etc.) but the pressure did not exist last year. Let's hope the reason why inexperience and lack of talent at the line because Jethro and Coach D are still here this year.

1. When we hired Golden, a couple of Temple guys came over to Grassy (and Shadow's board) to congratulate the 'Canes on the solid hire w/ Al (although they said his game day coaching was suspect) and laugh @ us for taking Dorito and his non-aggressive style.

2. I understand the #1 statistics is points allowed, and share that same view as Golden (who gives a **** @ the yards given up, just don't let them score!). Is Miami going in the same direction numbers wise as Temple? Was Temple facing the same type offenses/talent as Miami is in the ACC? And yes, for as much as Miami/the ACC has sucked; they still have the second most NFL'ers drafter over the last 3-4 years.

3. Sacks are the only indicators of pressure that is not subjective and only visual or perceptive. Unfortunately, the # of pressures is not captured in the NCAA like it is in the NFL.

 

[Ghandi]

Saban @ Alabama, defensive sacks per year average 29. 6 year sample size.
You guys need to just stop with the nonsense.. really just stop.

Try your math again...

'10 - 27
'11 - 30
'12 - 35

Would you like to measure Total Defense like Golden Al says they measure?

wow so taking those 3 years he's @ 31. Take his first 2 seasons after rebuild like we're doing with D'onofrio and its 28.5..
and thats with Bama playing 14 and 13 game seasons with SEC conference championships and bowl games. So you point is mute.

You're telling me that Sack numbers are a bull****, luck-filled stat.

That is not the case.

What I'm trying to argue here (which is tough when the person is going full potato) is that sacks do matter because they are negative plays that get the defense off the field and also expose an offense to riskier, down the field throws.

In any case, we're done here. Unless someone else wants to sub in (Consigliere stepped in nicely with facts) this discussion is going down the tubes pretty fast.

 

[FullyERicht]

Worst DL in the history of the program? Son, did you just start following the program last year? Yeah, it's not national championship caliber, but let's take a deep breath and not sound like the world's coming to an end. Give it time to develop and improve. And yes, there is reason to anticipate a step or two will be made this fall.

Last year was statistically the worst defense the team has ever had. Is it really a stretch that the DL, the defenses most important unit, might have been the worst ever??

 

[Consigliere]

1. When we hired Golden, a couple of Temple guys came over to Grassy (and Shadow's board) to congratulate the 'Canes on the solid hire w/ Al (although they said his game day coaching was suspect) and laugh @ us for taking Dorito and his non-aggressive style.

2. I understand the #1 statistics is points allowed, and share that same view as Golden (who gives a **** @ the yards given up, just don't let them score!). Is Miami going in the same direction numbers wise as Temple? Was Temple facing the same type offenses/talent as Miami is in the ACC? And yes, for as much as Miami/the ACC has sucked; they still have the second most NFL'ers drafter over the last 3-4 years.

3. Sacks are the only indicators of pressure that is not subjective and only visual or perceptive. Unfortunately, the # of pressures is not captured in the NCAA like it is in the NFL.

1. I wonder how those guys feel now. Also, I don't know why this is really relevant. A few Temple fans can have their thoughts, we have ours. The only thing that matters is results and the results were bad last year.

2. I don't know what Golden's view is on defense and I can't speak for him. I know that no one is happy about what happened in 2012, I know that people should question what happened as well.

The one thing that makes ZERO SENSE to me (keep in mind I am no expert) and the reason why I am skeptical...In 2011 with all the suspensions, turnover and NCAA mess how did we finish 17th in scoring defense at 20.08PPG?

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2011&div=B&rpt=IA_teamscordef&site=org

Was this luck? Was 2012 the truth? Does youth matter this much in 2012? I am sure it is a combination of many things, none of which I can accurately place.

3. The pressure, sacks, TFL all sucked last year. Bottom line is it sucked. Please note: I am not a fan of Jethro. I just can't believe the people we had out there for us: Shayon Green (no joints), Sophomore Chick (looked like a mummy who can hustle), Darrius Back **** Smith, Pierre (I like) and the 300 Freshman.

Not exactly a beast line up! When Porter returned, there was a major difference. I am hoping healthy more experienced talent can improve our defensive front because I have little faith in Jethro.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Saban @ Alabama, defensive sacks per year average 29. 6 year sample size.
You guys need to just stop with the nonsense.. really just stop.

Try your math again...

'10 - 27
'11 - 30
'12 - 35

Would you like to measure Total Defense like Golden Al says they measure?

wow so taking those 3 years he's @ 31. Take his first 2 seasons after rebuild like we're doing with D'onofrio and its 28.5..
and thats with Bama playing 14 and 13 game seasons with SEC conference championships and bowl games. So you point is mute.

You're telling me that Sack numbers are a bull****, luck-filled stat.

That is not the case.

What I'm trying to argue here (which is tough when the person is going full potato) is that sacks do matter because they are negative plays that get the defense off the field and also expose an offense to riskier, down the field throws.

In any case, we're done here. Unless someone else wants to sub in (Consigliere stepped in nicely with facts) this discussion is going down the tubes pretty fast.

Of course sacks matter and I've never stated otherwise.
What I'm trying to get through here is that looking at some inconclusive sacks numbers is not indicative of anything.
But you have folks already here like you proclaiming D'onofrio schemes don't produce sacks. Do you know who Adrian Robinson is? He was Temple's DE in 2009 that got 13 sacks playing in D'onforio's scheme.. His DT Wilkerson got 9.. More than what Miami's defenses have had the last 5 or so years.

 

[gogeta4]

We're never gonna be a big sack defense with D'Onofrio here IMO.

(lol @ "big sack")

Not just cause of his poor resume but because of the way I see us play defense at times. It's not conducive to pressure IMO. Too much reading, engaging, etc etc etc.

Doesn't mean we can't have a good defense though. Alabama isn't always the best at getting to the QB but we all know how good their defense is.

Honestly i actually believed the same thing after seeing his defense for ONE year. Me knowing offense, the scheme he coaches generally won tbe condusive to grabbing a bunch of sacks.....

Dudes are going to have to get it on their own for the most part...Chickillo went from a kid that knew how to stack and rip COMING in as a feshman...to a guy that looks like hes dancing Bachata with offensive tackles.Wasnt just weight gain...its what he's taught within the scheme...We play a GAP control defense...and i guess behind that in the back 7 we're going to try to confuse qbs into throwing into zones i guess....will be difficult when qbs have all day and your back 7 doesnt have a clue or arent comfortable in zone you get what we had last yr on defense....

 

[FullyERicht]

3-4 and gap control defenses can generate a ton of sacks. But they are generated via their blitz schemes. If you have creative, well timed, and properly executive blitz schemes, you will generate sacks. At worst, you will generate hurries which will mean incompletions and INTs.

If we aren't getting enough sacks at a 2 gap defense, it's bc our blitzes suck.

 

[AUcane]

We're never gonna be a big sack defense with D'Onofrio here IMO.

(lol @ "big sack")

Not just cause of his poor resume but because of the way I see us play defense at times. It's not conducive to pressure IMO. Too much reading, engaging, etc etc etc.

Doesn't mean we can't have a good defense though. Alabama isn't always the best at getting to the QB but we all know how good their defense is.

Honestly i actually believed the same thing after seeing his defense for ONE year. Me knowing offense, the scheme he coaches generally won tbe condusive to grabbing a bunch of sacks.....

Dudes are going to have to get it on their own for the most part...Chickillo went from a kid that knew how to stack and rip COMING in as a feshman...to a guy that looks like hes dancing Bachata with offensive tackles.Wasnt just weight gain...its what he's taught within the scheme...We play a GAP control defense...and i guess behind that in the back 7 we're going to try to confuse qbs into throwing into zones i guess....will be difficult when qbs have all day and your back 7 doesnt have a clue or arent comfortable in zone you get what we had last yr on defense....

+100 points for incorporating the word bachata into a football discussion.

 

[canecountry3]

Dyron Dye will probably make a bigger contribution at DE if he is healthy in the fall.

 

[Coach Macho]

3-4 and gap control defenses can generate a ton of sacks. But they are generated via their blitz schemes. If you have creative, well timed, and properly executive blitz schemes, you will generate sacks. At worst, you will generate hurries which will mean incompletions and INTs.

If we aren't getting enough sacks at a 2 gap defense, it's bc our blitzes suck.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most successful 3-4 defenses have an absolute stud at OLB applying pressure.

If you're lucky then you also have a DE like Watt or Smith who can get pressure as well.

Either way...

The old defense we played at Miami could get a sack on any given down. Any time the QB dropped back to pass there was a chance he would be sacked. Our DL had their ears pinned back and fireballs up their asses. And this was as recent as 2010.

 

[Coach Macho]

I don't know if it's D'Onofrio's fault or not, all I know is that we're more talented than 13 sacks. We were one of the top sack defenses in the nation as recent as 2010. Was our DL that much more talented in 2010 than it is now? Smith, Robinson, Ojomo, Bailey, Vernon, Forston, etc.