What gives me hope for some Kaaya success - THIS YEAR

[orange&green84]

We shouldn't have to "cut the field in half" or "simplify the offense" for any quarterback.

For me, it's not about having hope that Kaaya can succeed, for me he had BETTER succeed. He won't get any slack from me, or from the fan base, if he goes out there and makes freshman mistakes or if our offense isn't clicking due to being scaled down so much.

To me, this is ridiculous. Can this kid really go in to Louisville and win, beat Florida State, go to Blacksburg and win? We have a perfectly good, experienced quarterback in Jake Heaps and I gotta tell you.... this decision not to start him in favor of a true freshman who has never taken a snap in his life baffles me.

I hope to **** the staff knows what they're doing, because we're not grading on a curve. Anything less than 10 wins and a coastal division title is not acceptable.

Well, that perfectly good 5th year QB got beat out by a frosh QB that's been here for 3-4 months. This is also his 3rd stop in his collegiate career and bombed at Kansas and BYU. If he was so good, then please explain the aforementioned points.

 

[jss007]

Can we pay Lu Cane for a weekly Thursday night thread like this to prep us for the weekend's game, or dissect the week's past? These posts are incredible.

There are posters on here who are far closer to the game than I am now and have played at far higher levels than I did. Those f'ers (looking at you, Hollyhood, Courcy, Coach Macho (lol), Dynasty, WEZ and the rest of that bunch) just like to lay back in the cut a lot of the time. Or, they're busy coaching the teams that pay them. As football season goes on and there's more stuff to dissect, hopefully substantive posts can encourage them to jump into the discussion.

The truth is not many people want to argue about what they "hear" or "read" is going on in practice. This should be a really fun season on a number of levels. I'm pumped.

I know it's a free site, and the advertising probably covers hosting alone, but I'd pay an MRC for consistent premium content from those closer to the program (eg. Aziz, D Money, etc) and the X & O guys (LuCane and the guys mentioned above).

Maybe that wasn't the original intent of the site, but it probably keeps things more constructive.

 

[CaneSB]

Reason coley was so open on corner route on the smash pattern was it was Cover 3 match. SS plays curl to flat unless inside WR runs vertical stem, then it's man to man and you gotta hold outside leverage. Coley faked like it was a short out route, SS has to protect against out breaking routes so he bit hard on the fake and Coley blew past him.

I don't know what in that pre-snap look tells you that was Cover 3. They're not in single high (they have 2 safeties at about 12-14 yards). The outside Corner is most clearly not in Cover 3 technique. I don't know what you saw in Coley faking the short route. At no point does he stop, stutter, or do anything other than run what looks like a vertical route that eventually he turns into a corner route. The Safety had his eyes in the backfield and, because they had been hit with the stop route literally the play before, he jumped up and Coley blew past. It was a basic busted coverage by a distracted Safety.

The smash concept Corner route WR technique with a deep defender over him is to set his man up inside and then jab to the post at around 10-12 yards. Ideally you want this to be more of a speed cut so the WR doesn't lose any speed. Because the defender jump the stop route, Coley doesn't need to waste any movement and breaks to post. Coley makes the right decision because he knew he could easily run past the Safety who was in a bad position.

 

[LuCane]

Reason coley was so open on corner route on the smash pattern was it was Cover 3 match. SS plays curl to flat unless inside WR runs vertical stem, then it's man to man and you gotta hold outside leverage. Coley faked like it was a short out route, SS has to protect against out breaking routes so he bit hard on the fake and Coley blew past him.

I don't know what in that pre-snap look tells you that was Cover 3. They're not in single high (they have 2 safeties at about 12-14 yards). The outside Corner is most clearly not in Cover 3 technique. I don't know what you saw in Coley faking the short route. At no point does he stop, stutter, or do anything other than run what looks like a vertical route that eventually he turns into a corner route. The Safety had his eyes in the backfield and, because they had been hit with the stop route literally the play before, he jumped up and Coley blew past. It was a basic busted coverage by a distracted Safety.

The smash concept Corner route WR technique with a deep defender over him is to set his man up inside and then jab to the post at around 10-12 yards. Ideally you want this to be more of a speed cut so the WR doesn't lose any speed. Because the defender jump the stop route, Coley doesn't need to waste any movement and breaks to post. Coley makes the right decision because he knew he could easily run past the Safety who was in a bad position.

Ok, but where do you see Coley "fake like it was a short route" as the poster above mentioned? I don't see it on the video. Did I miss it? That's what I was answering to.

 

[CaneSB]

I've watched way too many Stephen Morris clips over the years. Last year, I charted nearly all of the plays. From those, I know almost exactly the type of plays, route trees and decisions he was asked to make. Last year, we played a relatively simple passing offense without any incredible pressure on Morris' decision-making. Let's take a look at some examples:

UM vs Pitt 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI

Go to the PA short roll (to his right) at :01 seconds.

The QB's decision-making is significantly simplified here. If the defense is playing off, Morris could easily see the separation between outside WR and Corner. That's the pass he hit. That's what Kaaya would have to do. The important thing to note on a play like this, at least as it relates to THIS YEAR, is that the field was cut in half for the QB's decision. I'd expect a good amount of that - especially early on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI

Go to the PA short roll (to his right) at :10 seconds.

4 WRs, vertical patterns on the inside, comebacks on the outside. Morris immediately looks to his right out of the shotgun, once again essentially cutting the field in half. The WRs at the top of the screen run a variation of the smash route. Instead of the outside WR running a curl, he runs a stop. The inside WR runs a (rather weak) corner route. When the Safety sits down (unexplainably) on the outside WR's stop route, the vertical slot goes by him. Morris simply hits a wide open WR. Smash concept is something junior high offenses run. Kaaya can make that read in his sleep, if asked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI

Go to the PA short roll (to his right) at :30 seconds.

Balanced Pistol formation with 2 TEs at top, and twins at the bottom of screen. Simple, no-read WR screen to S. Coley who breaks it for a TD. No real analysis needed here. Expect a decent amount of 1-read throws - whether they're WR screens, RB screens, RB swing routes. Simple Combination routes out of the backfield between RB and H-Back or TE. Etc.

In the interest of not getting into too many of these so we can get into the discussion, here are other reasons:

1. Morris rarely (successfully) threw between LBs and Safeties. So, if Kaaya is unable to do this as a True Frosh, it would NOT be a deficiency from last year's offense.

2. Coley, Waters, Walford and others have another year under their belt. They should be better, more explosive and make Kaaya's job easier.

3. Health. We didn't have it last year when we lost Duke and Dorsett. That isn't something we can necessarily control, but if we have it, it's a PLUS as it relates to last year.

4. What could Morris do that Kaaya probably cannot? Some of the rocket throws to the opposite hash or in the corners. See approximately :42 seconds in the videos above.

However, Morris rarely, if ever, "threw a WR open." I don't know if Kaaya can do this, but if he can, it will make up for the deficiency and probably turn out as a plus (comparably).
-------------------------------------------------------------

The point here isn't to say that Kaaya won't have his struggles. It's to note that, at least based on the QB play we got last year and what our QB was asked to do, my hope is that we see virtually no downshift in the offense's ability to score points (relative to opponents, of course).

In terms of what I'd like to see us do with the offense and what we should expect, lots more to talk about here. Let's open it up.

Great Stuff Lu.

I don't agree with most of the negative opinions about Coley's offense. Morris significantly struggled with reads which was further exaggerated when under pressure. Coley was forced to use coverage keys to simplify the offense for Morris to limit the need to think. This ultimately leads to limited options in play design and creativity. If Kayaa has the good up top, you will see him take advantage of opportunities that Morris and JaCory couldn't.

 

[Classic]

For the first time in a long time, I think we have a Quarterback.

Not a sack-taking machine, not a wide-eyed, traitorous, happy-footed Texan, not a guy with a "nice touch" on his deep prayer passes, and not a cheerleader with a rocket for an arm.

A goddamned Quarterback. I'm so excited.

 

[Dynasty]

Reason coley was so open on corner route on the smash pattern was it was Cover 3 match. SS plays curl to flat unless inside WR runs vertical stem, then it's man to man and you gotta hold outside leverage. Coley faked like it was a short out route, SS has to protect against out breaking routes so he bit hard on the fake and Coley blew past him.

I don't know what in that pre-snap look tells you that was Cover 3. They're not in single high (they have 2 safeties at about 12-14 yards). The outside Corner is most clearly not in Cover 3 technique. I don't know what you saw in Coley faking the short route. At no point does he stop, stutter, or do anything other than run what looks like a vertical route that eventually he turns into a corner route. The Safety had his eyes in the backfield and, because they had been hit with the stop route literally the play before, he jumped up and Coley blew past. It was a basic busted coverage by a distracted Safety.

The smash concept Corner route WR technique with a deep defender over him is to set his man up inside and then jab to the post at around 10-12 yards. Ideally you want this to be more of a speed cut so the WR doesn't lose any speed. Because the defender jump the stop route, Coley doesn't need to waste any movement and breaks to post. Coley makes the right decision because he knew he could easily run past the Safety who was in a bad position.

Ok, but where do you see Coley "fake like it was a short route" as the poster above mentioned? I don't see it on the video. Did I miss it? That's what I was answering to.

It was simply a ***ed up coverage to begin with. If the coverage was truly sky-3, the corner shouldn't have squatted on the outside hitch. Mistake number one. I don't know what rules piTT uses in terms of pattern reading, but typically the corners read number two receiver for any vertical release, particularly if number one isn't carrying them vertically. Coley didn't need to sell anything inside because he already had established inside leverage. The safety's eyes appear to be somewhere else as he was completely flat footed-as he should've been if his responsibility was curl to flat. I guess one could make an argument that the safety could've rerouted the seam somewhat. But, still, once Coley broke into the post corner route, it was over with no deep 1/3 defender there.

 

[ScubaCane]

We shouldn't have to "cut the field in half" or "simplify the offense" for any quarterback.

For me, it's not about having hope that Kaaya can succeed, for me he had BETTER succeed. He won't get any slack from me, or from the fan base, if he goes out there and makes freshman mistakes or if our offense isn't clicking due to being scaled down so much.

To me, this is ridiculous. Can this kid really go in to Louisville and win, beat Florida State, go to Blacksburg and win? We have a perfectly good, experienced quarterback in Jake Heaps and I gotta tell you.... this decision not to start him in favor of a true freshman who has never taken a snap in his life baffles me.

I hope to **** the staff knows what they're doing, because we're not grading on a curve. Anything less than 10 wins and a coastal division title is not acceptable.

Maybe, just maybe, Kaaya is better than Heaps

 

[LuCane]

Reason coley was so open on corner route on the smash pattern was it was Cover 3 match. SS plays curl to flat unless inside WR runs vertical stem, then it's man to man and you gotta hold outside leverage. Coley faked like it was a short out route, SS has to protect against out breaking routes so he bit hard on the fake and Coley blew past him.

I don't know what in that pre-snap look tells you that was Cover 3. They're not in single high (they have 2 safeties at about 12-14 yards). The outside Corner is most clearly not in Cover 3 technique. I don't know what you saw in Coley faking the short route. At no point does he stop, stutter, or do anything other than run what looks like a vertical route that eventually he turns into a corner route. The Safety had his eyes in the backfield and, because they had been hit with the stop route literally the play before, he jumped up and Coley blew past. It was a basic busted coverage by a distracted Safety.

The smash concept Corner route WR technique with a deep defender over him is to set his man up inside and then jab to the post at around 10-12 yards. Ideally you want this to be more of a speed cut so the WR doesn't lose any speed. Because the defender jump the stop route, Coley doesn't need to waste any movement and breaks to post. Coley makes the right decision because he knew he could easily run past the Safety who was in a bad position.

Ok, but where do you see Coley "fake like it was a short route" as the poster above mentioned? I don't see it on the video. Did I miss it? That's what I was answering to.

It was simply a ***ed up coverage to begin with. If the coverage was truly sky-3, the corner shouldn't have squatted on the outside hitch. Mistake number one. I don't know what rules piTT uses in terms of pattern reading, but typically the corners read number two receiver for any vertical release, particularly if number one isn't carrying them vertically. Coley didn't need to sell anything inside because he already had established inside leverage. The safety's eyes appear to be somewhere else as he was completely flat footed-as he should've been if his responsibility was curl to flat. I guess one could make an argument that the safety could've rerouted the seam somewhat. But, still, once Coley broke into the post corner route, it was over with no deep 1/3 defender there.

That's the point (bolded) I made twice in this thread. Either way, Cover 3 sky seemed to be a terrible coverage call for the 4 WR sets we were going against. Quarters or would have been more appropriate.

 

[North FL Cane]

Good Stuff! I think with our key skills guys having the experience and the depth at those positions, Kaaya's supporting cast will give the True Frosh confidence early on. I think the sky is the limit with this kid. Go CANES!

 

[MDOcane]

lu, I know that the scores of the games will determine this , but what is your estimate in terms of the run-pass ratio with Kaaya under center?

We ran the ball 436 times last year for a 4.8 average. We were 36th in yards per attempt, but only 97th in actual attempts. For comparison, FSU ran 505 times (53rd) for a 5.6 average (10th). Perhaps some of that had to do with Duke's injury.

I hope we're closer to 525 attempts this year and 5.1. According to last year stats, that would at least put us in the Top 50 of rushing attempts in the NCAA and top 25 in yards per attempt.

I think the run/pass ratio will fall toward run only slightly. I think what will change are the underneath routes/passes.

I imagine we were on offense a lot less than FSU as well though. Our TOP had to be a lot worse than theirs

IMO: I think the plan going into last season was to run the ball over 500 times. The problem with that was not only Duke's injury (which obviously reduces depth) but the more pressing issue was that the offense was atrocious on 3rd down conversion. Consequently, you run less play, less chances to run the ball. You then put your defense in a bad position by being on the field so much, we're trailing late in games, which forces us to throw the ball more than we'd like. If Kaaya can hit the intermediate routes, as you alluded to LuCane, then I foresee and increase in our 3rd down conv % which will be a huge determining factor in the success of this offense & more importantly, the season as a whole

 

[Pentagon Cane]

This is a blue-chip, 5-star post, right here

Well, done Lu

Lu is one of the best in the game. Mad skills. He made another excellent post as always regarding what we're all hopeful to see in Coley's passing game. Let's not kid ourselves this is a vertical passing attack. The key, however, for this vertical passing scheme that Coley runs will ultimately boil down to how well we control the underneath 5-15 yards, short to intermediate (middle) areas of the field. That's the one complaint I have about this system. I don't think it attacks by design. And another question I have often thought about is it really a quarterback friendly system? Then again, maybe I'm wrong...I dunno. Perhaps Lu can add insight as to how our check downs function in relationship to flanker and tightend vertical routes. It would be interesting to know how our backs and check downs differ now under Coley than Fisch.

Ha. You know I don't have a good answer to any of that.

What I do know for sure is that Jimbo (thinking of Coley as his disciple since he learned under him) handled EJ Manuel and Winston seemingly differently. EJ Manuel was relegated to basic combination routes, single reads, short rolls (to the opposite shoulder, yikes) with layered routes (a TE chipped and went into the flat and, say, an intermediary out over him). FSU won a BCS game that year and only had that one NC State collapse. But, that was Manuel's last year and you still heard cries from Tally all the way down here about how the field wasn't being max'd out. Manuel was "limiting" them.

All that and then we see the field used almost in its entirety by a first year QB (Winston) who's a RS Frosh? That tells me the design may be somewhat dependent on the QB's ability to make certain reads, look guys off, process information - you know, the fundamentals of good QB play we've missed here for 10 years.

My hope (a reach) is that Coley has more to his design concepts and didn't use everything because Morris was limited in certain aspects. His play calling (personnel packages were predictable) and setting up (plays rarely built on each other) don't support that view, but he was a 1st year OC. Like I said, I expect the True Frosh QB gets treated a lot like Morris did last year. If he can make some passes between defenders (which I've heard about from people watching practice) or simply hit some drag routes when guys are on the move, those would be two elements we haven't seen here in a while.

If Morris missed he tended to miss high. I'm hoping Coley was trying to protect Morris.

 

[Billy D Williams]

I wouldn't put it all on Morris, but the kid seriously lacked technique, touch, inability to read defenses and missed too many easy passes. On the other hand the offense was too high schoolish, predictable, lacked 3rd down execution and OL failed to protect and open holes on 3rd downs. Wasn't all Morris, but I know we've upgraded all the QB intangibles that Morris just didn't have.

 

[CaneSB]

Reason coley was so open on corner route on the smash pattern was it was Cover 3 match. SS plays curl to flat unless inside WR runs vertical stem, then it's man to man and you gotta hold outside leverage. Coley faked like it was a short out route, SS has to protect against out breaking routes so he bit hard on the fake and Coley blew past him.

I don't know what in that pre-snap look tells you that was Cover 3. They're not in single high (they have 2 safeties at about 12-14 yards). The outside Corner is most clearly not in Cover 3 technique. I don't know what you saw in Coley faking the short route. At no point does he stop, stutter, or do anything other than run what looks like a vertical route that eventually he turns into a corner route. The Safety had his eyes in the backfield and, because they had been hit with the stop route literally the play before, he jumped up and Coley blew past. It was a basic busted coverage by a distracted Safety.

The smash concept Corner route WR technique with a deep defender over him is to set his man up inside and then jab to the post at around 10-12 yards. Ideally you want this to be more of a speed cut so the WR doesn't lose any speed. Because the defender jump the stop route, Coley doesn't need to waste any movement and breaks to post. Coley makes the right decision because he knew he could easily run past the Safety who was in a bad position.

Ok, but where do you see Coley "fake like it was a short route" as the poster above mentioned? I don't see it on the video. Did I miss it? That's what I was answering to.

:13 second mark as the 24 yard line. Look at his feet and you will see his foot point inside and plant while body shifts outside off step to cut post. Not great technique but he might have recognized the blown coverage which made it look awkward.

 

[Henney]

I agree, but at the same time the staff cant pull Kaaya everytime he struggles against solid competition because in my opinion it will only hurt his confidence. The staff is burning his redshirt, so you have to stick with him all season unless he is playing absolutely atrociously. He's a freshman who will be learning a lot on the fly, so they have to deal with his ups and downs, but focus on minimizing the downs.

 

[Bigtip]

We shouldn't have to "cut the field in half" or "simplify the offense" for any quarterback.

For me, it's not about having hope that Kaaya can succeed, for me he had BETTER succeed. He won't get any slack from me, or from the fan base, if he goes out there and makes freshman mistakes or if our offense isn't clicking due to being scaled down so much.

To me, this is ridiculous. Can this kid really go in to Louisville and win, beat Florida State, go to Blacksburg and win? We have a perfectly good, experienced quarterback in Jake Heaps and I gotta tell you.... this decision not to start him in favor of a true freshman who has never taken a snap in his life baffles me.

I hope to **** the staff knows what they're doing, because we're not grading on a curve. Anything less than 10 wins and a coastal division title is not acceptable.

I can tell you that this staff does not know wtf they are doing. that is clear.

whether this is the right choice or not is another question. Heaps looks like ***** in what I've seen.

F/A/G is on the hot seat right now. if we go 7-5 with Heaps he cant blame it on youth.

 

[UMJer026]

Bump...

Lots of foreshadowing in here, interesting to read now that we've gotten a glimpse of Kaaya.

 

[LuCane]

Bump...

Lots of foreshadowing in here, interesting to read now that we've gotten a glimpse of Kaaya.

My comment from earlier in the thread:

My hope (a reach) is that Coley has more to his design concepts and didn't use everything because Morris was limited in certain aspects. His play calling (personnel packages were predictable) and setting up (plays rarely built on each other) don't support that view, but he was a 1st year OC.

No bueno so far, man.