What gives me hope for some Kaaya success - THIS YEAR

[weownfsu]

Oldman Cane. Jakes Heaps is good??? What are you basing that on?

He has been mediocre at best and has already failed at two rpograms

OldManCAne is the guy who said that we'd miss Seantrel, but not Allen Hurns. He also said that Allen Hurns was a "participation" trophy-type player. Guy needs to stick to playing bridge and shuffleboard.

We'll find out this year if we miss Seantrel or not... the offensive line this year concerns me some, WR doesn't.

That's nice and all but your reasoning was that the NFL rejected Hurns and Seantrel was drafted in the 7th round. Looks like the NFL disagrees pretty strongly with you calling Hurns a participation trophy player.

A lot of questions will be answered on Labor Day. About Kaaya, about the offensive line, about Golden.

Luckily, the questions about your ability to deflect have already been answered.

 

[OldManCane]

OldManCAne is the guy who said that we'd miss Seantrel, but not Allen Hurns. He also said that Allen Hurns was a "participation" trophy-type player. Guy needs to stick to playing bridge and shuffleboard.

We'll find out this year if we miss Seantrel or not... the offensive line this year concerns me some, WR doesn't.

That's nice and all but your reasoning was that the NFL rejected Hurns and Seantrel was drafted in the 7th round. Looks like the NFL disagrees pretty strongly with you calling Hurns a participation trophy player.

A lot of questions will be answered on Labor Day. About Kaaya, about the offensive line, about Golden.

Luckily, the questions about your ability to deflect have already been answered.

Son, you just went way off topic.... we're discussing Brad Kaaya in this thread not Allen Hurns. No offense, but I don't really care about Hurns at the moment. Canes season starts in a week and I have concerns about our quarterback.

Our whole season will be determined by how well this young man plays.

 

[LexCane55]

Heaps last year vs OU was 5 for 13 for 16 yards

Thats playing well????

OU and Kansas must have played another game just for you that heaps played well in last year

Go watch the game.

Lol get out of here with this nonsense. Your arguing a QB who threw for 16 yards had a good game lol

 

[jss007]

Can we pay Lu Cane for a weekly Thursday night thread like this to prep us for the weekend's game, or dissect the week's past? These posts are incredible.

 

[Tad Footeball]

Don't need to hope for Kaaya's success. This beautiful face right here will ensure it.

 

[LuCane]

Can we pay Lu Cane for a weekly Thursday night thread like this to prep us for the weekend's game, or dissect the week's past? These posts are incredible.

There are posters on here who are far closer to the game than I am now and have played at far higher levels than I did. Those f'ers (looking at you, Hollyhood, Courcy, Coach Macho (lol), Dynasty, WEZ and the rest of that bunch) just like to lay back in the cut a lot of the time. Or, they're busy coaching the teams that pay them. As football season goes on and there's more stuff to dissect, hopefully substantive posts can encourage them to jump into the discussion.

The truth is not many people want to argue about what they "hear" or "read" is going on in practice. This should be a really fun season on a number of levels. I'm pumped.

 

[Cribby]

I've watched way too many Stephen Morris clips over the years. Last year, I charted nearly all of the plays. From those, I know almost exactly the type of plays, route trees and decisions he was asked to make. Last year, we played a relatively simple passing offense without any incredible pressure on Morris' decision-making. Let's take a look at some examples:

UM vs Pitt 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI

Go to the PA short roll (to his right) at :01 seconds.

The QB's decision-making is significantly simplified here. If the defense is playing off, Morris could easily see the separation between outside WR and Corner. That's the pass he hit. That's what Kaaya would have to do. The important thing to note on a play like this, at least as it relates to THIS YEAR, is that the field was cut in half for the QB's decision. I'd expect a good amount of that - especially early on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI

Go to the PA short roll (to his right) at :10 seconds.

4 WRs, vertical patterns on the inside, comebacks on the outside. Morris immediately looks to his right out of the shotgun, once again essentially cutting the field in half. The WRs at the top of the screen run a variation of the smash route. Instead of the outside WR running a curl, he runs a stop. The inside WR runs a (rather weak) corner route. When the Safety sits down (unexplainably) on the outside WR's stop route, the vertical slot goes by him. Morris simply hits a wide open WR. Smash concept is something junior high offenses run. Kaaya can make that read in his sleep, if asked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pwXCmRxuI

Go to the PA short roll (to his right) at :30 seconds.

Balanced Pistol formation with 2 TEs at top, and twins at the bottom of screen. Simple, no-read WR screen to S. Coley who breaks it for a TD. No real analysis needed here. Expect a decent amount of 1-read throws - whether they're WR screens, RB screens, RB swing routes. Simple Combination routes out of the backfield between RB and H-Back or TE. Etc.

In the interest of not getting into too many of these so we can get into the discussion, here are other reasons:

1. Morris rarely (successfully) threw between LBs and Safeties. So, if Kaaya is unable to do this as a True Frosh, it would NOT be a deficiency from last year's offense.

2. Coley, Waters, Walford and others have another year under their belt. They should be better, more explosive and make Kaaya's job easier.

3. Health. We didn't have it last year when we lost Duke and Dorsett. That isn't something we can necessarily control, but if we have it, it's a PLUS as it relates to last year.

4. What could Morris do that Kaaya probably cannot? Some of the rocket throws to the opposite hash or in the corners. See approximately :42 seconds in the videos above.

However, Morris rarely, if ever, "threw a WR open." I don't know if Kaaya can do this, but if he can, it will make up for the deficiency and probably turn out as a plus (comparably).
-------------------------------------------------------------

The point here isn't to say that Kaaya won't have his struggles. It's to note that, at least based on the QB play we got last year and what our QB was asked to do, my hope is that we see virtually no downshift in the offense's ability to score points (relative to opponents, of course).

In terms of what I'd like to see us do with the offense and what we should expect, lots more to talk about here. Let's open it up.

" Throwing receivers open" is one trait that all great qb's have .

 

[Dynasty]

This is a blue-chip, 5-star post, right here

Well, done Lu

Lu is one of the best in the game. Mad skills. He made another excellent post as always regarding what we're all hopeful to see in Coley's passing game. Let's not kid ourselves this is a vertical passing attack. The key, however, for this vertical passing scheme that Coley runs will ultimately boil down to how well we control the underneath 5-15 yards, short to intermediate (middle) areas of the field. That's the one complaint I have about this system. I don't think it attacks by design. And another question I have often thought about is it really a quarterback friendly system? Then again, maybe I'm wrong...I dunno. Perhaps Lu can add insight as to how our check downs function in relationship to flanker and tightend vertical routes. It would be interesting to know how our backs and check downs differ now under Coley than Fisch.

 

[theibisrules]

thank you for being our head coach Al

 

[jtaz34]

Put me in the less than thrilled camp to hear that a true fr is our starter. I believe kaaya has the tools to be special here and so bad want a good qb again leading the canes. I just wish our qb situation wasn't so bad that this was our best option. With a suspect oline and coordinator, I don't think we'll be able to just run against a stacked box, which I think we'll see a lot. Kaaya is going to have to make plays to open up the run game and coley is going to have create some good gameplans for him. We'll see. On the plus side, he's got a top five wr corps to work with. My biggest complaint I guess is this buys golden/coley another free pass this year.

 

[LuCane]

This is a blue-chip, 5-star post, right here

Well, done Lu

Lu is one of the best in the game. Mad skills. He made another excellent post as always regarding what we're all hopeful to see in Coley's passing game. Let's not kid ourselves this is a vertical passing attack. The key, however, for this vertical passing scheme that Coley runs will ultimately boil down to how well we control the underneath 5-15 yards, short to intermediate (middle) areas of the field. That's the one complaint I have about this system. I don't think it attacks by design. And another question I have often thought about is it really a quarterback friendly system? Then again, maybe I'm wrong...I dunno. Perhaps Lu can add insight as to how our check downs function in relationship to flanker and tightend vertical routes. It would be interesting to know how our backs and check downs differ now under Coley than Fisch.

Ha. You know I don't have a good answer to any of that.

What I do know for sure is that Jimbo (thinking of Coley as his disciple since he learned under him) handled EJ Manuel and Winston seemingly differently. EJ Manuel was relegated to basic combination routes, single reads, short rolls (to the opposite shoulder, yikes) with layered routes (a TE chipped and went into the flat and, say, an intermediary out over him). FSU won a BCS game that year and only had that one NC State collapse. But, that was Manuel's last year and you still heard cries from Tally all the way down here about how the field wasn't being max'd out. Manuel was "limiting" them.

All that and then we see the field used almost in its entirety by a first year QB (Winston) who's a RS Frosh? That tells me the design may be somewhat dependent on the QB's ability to make certain reads, look guys off, process information - you know, the fundamentals of good QB play we've missed here for 10 years.

My hope (a reach) is that Coley has more to his design concepts and didn't use everything because Morris was limited in certain aspects. His play calling (personnel packages were predictable) and setting up (plays rarely built on each other) don't support that view, but he was a 1st year OC. Like I said, I expect the True Frosh QB gets treated a lot like Morris did last year. If he can make some passes between defenders (which I've heard about from people watching practice) or simply hit some drag routes when guys are on the move, those would be two elements we haven't seen here in a while.

 

[k9cane]

This is a blue-chip, 5-star post, right here

Well, done Lu

Lu is one of the best in the game. Mad skills. He made another excellent post as always regarding what we're all hopeful to see in Coley's passing game. Let's not kid ourselves this is a vertical passing attack. The key, however, for this vertical passing scheme that Coley runs will ultimately boil down to how well we control the underneath 5-15 yards, short to intermediate (middle) areas of the field. That's the one complaint I have about this system. I don't think it attacks by design. And another question I have often thought about is it really a quarterback friendly system? Then again, maybe I'm wrong...I dunno. Perhaps Lu can add insight as to how our check downs function in relationship to flanker and tightend vertical routes. It would be interesting to know how our backs and check downs differ now under Coley than Fisch.

the Kaaya decision isnt just about Golden, this will also go a loooooong ways in determining what we have in James Coley. Was last year more about the hand-cuffs Morris put on this offensive system or are their deeper issues

I cant wait to find out

 

[Dwinstitles]

Oldman Cane. Jakes Heaps is good??? What are you basing that on?

He has been mediocre at best and has already failed at two rpograms

I watched Kansas vs Oklahoma and he looked good. Better than Morris anyway. So hopefully Kaaya surprises me and is even better than both.

Like I said, I have my doubts just because of his inexperience, but we'll find out soon enough. Pulling for the kid to succeed though.

Experience means **** IMO, if your good your good. A lot of people throw that word around in the real world, to me it means nothing. An inexperienced may weather won a belt, and inexperienced giants team beat tom Brady and the unbeatable pats. If your good your going to be good period. An inexperienced duke Johnson blew the doors off boston college in his first start, an inexperienced Winston won a title and hiesman. An young pup names Pete aziz is better than all these vets and boy be doing work. That's exactly what it is old man thinking.

 

[Cash]

Nice breakdown Lu...

 

[Dynasty]

This is a blue-chip, 5-star post, right here

Well, done Lu

Lu is one of the best in the game. Mad skills. He made another excellent post as always regarding what we're all hopeful to see in Coley's passing game. Let's not kid ourselves this is a vertical passing attack. The key, however, for this vertical passing scheme that Coley runs will ultimately boil down to how well we control the underneath 5-15 yards, short to intermediate (middle) areas of the field. That's the one complaint I have about this system. I don't think it attacks by design. And another question I have often thought about is it really a quarterback friendly system? Then again, maybe I'm wrong...I dunno. Perhaps Lu can add insight as to how our check downs function in relationship to flanker and tightend vertical routes. It would be interesting to know how our backs and check downs differ now under Coley than Fisch.

Ha. You know I don't have a good answer to any of that.

What I do know for sure is that Jimbo (thinking of Coley as his disciple since he learned under him) handled EJ Manuel and Winston seemingly differently. EJ Manuel was relegated to basic combination routes, single reads, short rolls (to the opposite shoulder, yikes) with layered routes (a TE chipped and went into the flat and, say, an intermediary out over him). FSU won a BCS game that year and only had that one NC State collapse. But, that was Manuel's last year and you still heard cries from Tally all the way down here about how the field wasn't being max'd out. Manuel was "limiting" them.

All that and then we see the field used almost in its entirety by a first year QB (Winston) who's a RS Frosh? That tells me the design may be somewhat dependent on the QB's ability to make certain reads, look guys off, process information - you know, the fundamentals of good QB play we've missed here for 10 years.

My hope (a reach) is that Coley has more to his design concepts and didn't use everything because Morris was limited in certain aspects. His play calling (personnel packages were predictable) and setting up (plays rarely built on each other) don't support that view, but he was a 1st year OC. Like I said, I expect the True Frosh QB gets treated a lot like Morris did last year. If he can make some passes between defenders (which I've heard about from people watching practice) or simply hit some drag routes when guys are on the move, those would be two elements we haven't seen here in a while.

I'm in agreement with everything you said. It's true a quarterback's ability to process information is critical in maximizing offensive efficiency. It allows an entire passing concept to be implemented.

Here's what is interesting to me. First, Fsu has always been an intermediate passing team with a heavy emphasis on stationary or curl routes. It's been their bread and butter for years, dating back to when Mark Richt was o-coordinator.

Secondly, Fisher's system seems as though it has followed that formula, although there is more emphasis on vertically stretching the interior middle of the field. The inside receivers, those who are typically hot receivers more often than not control the interior and serve as primary reads or check downs. I guess what I'm saying is I don't really see Coley's system being a methodical passing attack without those inside routes.

Third, under Fisch our backs had very good receiving numbers, what happened to that? I guess I'm trying to figure how will Coley work the middle of the field without RB production, especially when other routes are routinely pushing vertically.

Fourth, I hope a kid like BB gets some serious minutes. It's just a gut feeling, but BB could be the link that makes this offense click providing Coley works him in seams and sit downs.

 

[jwayne]

Heaps last year vs OU was 5 for 13 for 16 yards

Thats playing well????

OU and Kansas must have played another game just for you that heaps played well in last year

Go watch the game.

I saw that game. His line sucked in pass pro. Receivers were horrible. Conservative gameplan but he was up 13. Receivers and RB dropped easy passes. Threw a short TD. His accuracy isn't good but he doesn't make bad decisions. Weiss screwed KU.
Saw him live at TCU too. His INT that game went through the receivers hands.
If he plays this season, I think he'll play fine.
I am behind Kaaya however.

 

[Geo305]

I think were gonna see some deep balls from Kaaya this year and he will bring back the RB pass and the intermediate and short routes back.

Kaaya has a ******* cannon if you ever really seen him play. Think he has a better gun than Morris TBH. And he's super accurate. Something Morris never was.

 

[Geo305]

Oldman Cane. Jakes Heaps is good??? What are you basing that on?

He has been mediocre at best and has already failed at two rpograms

I watched Kansas vs Oklahoma and he looked good. Better than Morris anyway. So hopefully Kaaya surprises me and is even better than both.

Like I said, I have my doubts just because of his inexperience, but we'll find out soon enough. Pulling for the kid to succeed though.

Experience means **** IMO, if your good your good. A lot of people throw that word around in the real world, to me it means nothing. An inexperienced may weather won a belt, and inexperienced giants team beat tom Brady and the unbeatable pats. If your good your going to be good period. An inexperienced duke Johnson blew the doors off boston college in his first start, an inexperienced Winston won a title and hiesman. An young pup names Pete aziz is better than all these vets and boy be doing work. That's exactly what it is old man thinking.

My thoughts exactly on Kaaya, an inexperienced Coley became one of the most explosive players in college in his first year.

Kaaya the real deal, what he did with his team in High School was unreal especially to that stacked Serra team.

I think Duke and Yearby at RB. Coley, Waters, Dorsett, Lewis and Berrios at WR, and Walford and Dobard at TE gonna make this easier for Kaaya. He has weapons on this offense. If the D has improved like what's been heard and seen, oh boy.

I could see Kaaya really taking off with the talent on offense. I felt last year we were a legit star QB and improved defense from becoming a 11+ win team and this years team is more talented with better depth. Feel the complete product coming with the 2015 and 2016 classes.

 

[Balltease]

Put me in the less than thrilled camp to hear that a true fr is our starter. I believe kaaya has the tools to be special here and so bad want a good qb again leading the canes. I just wish our qb situation wasn't so bad that this was our best option. With a suspect oline and coordinator, I don't think we'll be able to just run against a stacked box, which I think we'll see a lot. Kaaya is going to have to make plays to open up the run game and coley is going to have create some good gameplans for him. We'll see. On the plus side, he's got a top five wr corps to work with. My biggest complaint I guess is this buys golden/coley another free pass this year.

You have no idea what you are talking bout bro. Suspect O-line...... Its actually one of the best in the country. I have said this over and over again. Freshmen or Redshirt Senior does not matter. Heaps simply got beat out. Kaaya is the truth you will soon find out. I believe 3 of our 5 chips were when a freshmen QB was at the helm

 

[LexCane55]

OUR OL is not even close to an elite unit based on their past performances. It was an average to above average line last season and it graduated two Pros.