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We need a change at DC. Sorry but this is inexcusable...

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AzureCane said:
LuvTheU32 said:
Get rid of this guy!!!!!!!! Y are we plying 7-10 yards off the recevers? They just run 7 yard combacks.
They might be young but they have talent. This D is the worst ever!!!! The dline sucks!!!!!! I am ****ed off at Donfario this is unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!
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the DL sucks because we are giving up 20-30 lbs on the average. thats why we are getting manhandled. we have gusy like chick, mccord, green and cain playing DE who all weigh no more than like 265, we have olsen pierre and luther playing inside and they are both like 290. if you cant understand why we are getting our asses kicked up front on defense, then Im not sure what else I can say.
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Starting DE's on the New England Patriots are both 260! The best pass rusher in the game is probably Clay Matthews and he is 255. So it is normal for smaller guys to go against bigger Tackles and still have success. I think schematically we have a problem. I lay the blame on the position coach first.

I honestly think most of it is this gap control/ get off blocks to get to the qb take too long and we need to have guys swim moving/ roll dodging these tackles on obvious passing downs. We just run straight forward into a mush pile and get nowhere. I agree that we need to let our corners be more aggressive. I would rather give up a 60 yarder at this point than a ten minute drive that kills our whole defense. I also think we could start to jump some of the shorter routes for some turnovers or some pbu's. I don't understand why we would continue to blitz the outside when they were running up the gut all **** night.
 
I have no issue with coach D. It takes time to get your guys in to run your scheme I understand that.

On the other hand my parents just got home this afternoon from Chicago, my dad said if Coach D is still here on this staff next season he won't re-new our season tickets. Says he doesn't make "thousand dollar donations to the god **** hurricane club for them to put some chubster on the sideline acting like he knows defense when in reality he's just moving his hands talking in sign language"


So with that, GET DONOFFORIO THE **** OUT .
 
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DeadPoets said:
SmokeyRone said:
Fire him now. And he can take Fisch with him. 3 points against KSU, 3 points against ND.
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Huh? We're 1-5 without Fisch. How some people can't see that the offense is bright with Fisch at the helm is beyond me.

ND and KState have really good defenses. We aren't there yet. But he did call plays that gave us a chance to score.
And he dropped 40 on every other opponent this season (minus KState)

D'Onofrio also doesn't help him.
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That can be said both ways. For me knowing the offense is better I expect more out of them to help the defense. If we capitalize on the forst few posessions it changes the whole game. Once we blew the first four drive with penalties and drops we allowed ND to go into a shell defense, which stymied our big play ability and allowed Teo to dominate the interior as he has all season. For them offensively it allowed them to just run the ball RIGHT at us and there is nothing we can do about it. Our young( I cant call freshman ****ty, but Darius smith can retire now) DL just could not hang. Once they scored on that long drive in the 3rd and we had two more drops and had to punt the game was OVER. Those miscues carry over to the defense and continues to put a tired bad defense back on the field.

I am not blaming anyone honestly, because you win and lose as a team. But we had only given up 13 at the half and we should have had 21 or more on the board. That is how you lose momentum and as we have seen this year when we have it we are a pretty good team (ncst, GT) and when we dont we get pounded into the ground (KS,ND)

And yes Fisch is one he!! of an OC. There were probably 10 drops tonight and it would have been a MUCH different game if that first one to PD gets caught.......
 
Golden wont doing anything. The excuse is that there young and it's a process. Ok I hate it but can buy it. What will be the excuse next year. He can't use young and process then.
 
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Wasn't golden dc at Virginia when they spanked us 48-o in ob? Anyway u think gold knows d. Right?
 
Seriously, u know they are running and can't stop it. What defense do you call at that point.
 
When Golson got in the game we should've had 8 in the box, and forced him to beat us with his arm. We didn't do that which is insane. It's well known this guy can't throw that well. So why on earth are you still playing that soft zone? The playcalling was brutal last night. Some of the things I saw showed a complete lack of football intelligence. People can say whatever they like about the players not being that great, but I mean the players aren't being put in a position to win. A prime example of how scheme can make all the difference in the world is FSU's turnaround from 2009 to 2010, and Michigan's turnaround from 2010 to 2011.

In 2009 FSU was giving up 30 ppg and a ton of yards(435 to be exact which still a **** of a lot better than this **** we have) which is an insane number or the caliber of athletes(the same athletes we bring in) they had on the team. They dumped the defensive coaching staff and started over the next year there was a dramatic improvement. They only brought back 5 players, but their numbers improved to 19 ppg and 354 yards.

For Michigan under Rich Rod they never had a good defense from the time he got there to the time he was fired. They went from giving up 21 ppg, and being a pretty good defense under Lloyd Carr in his final year. Mind you that defense in Carr's final year only brought back 4 starters that year which is less than what we brought back this season. Their numbers jumped up to 28 ppg 367 yards after they switched to a 3-3-5 scheme. As Carr's players filtered out of the program things got worse. The second year their defense improved in ppg (27), but were giving up almost 400 yards per game. We're seeing something similar with our defense now except Rich Rod's were never this bad. In Rich Rod's final year the defense was giving up 35 ppg, and 451 yards.

Now they hire new coach switch the scheme, and you get an amazing overnight improvement. The defense ppg dropped to 17, and the yards dropped to 322. People claim we don't have the horses, but I'm sure the same was being said about these two teams ESPECIALLY Michigan.

People can say whatever they want about the players, and how terrible they are, but our defense wasn't any good last year either. The defense was so bad Fisch had to protect them by playing at an incredibly slow pace. We were the second most efficient offense in the country, but it didn't show in the numbers due to the slow pace we played, and the fact that the defense couldn't get off the field. The year after Shannon's coaching staff left our yards jumped from 323 to 360, and that's with the offense protecting the defense. Our team went from giving up a 49.7 comp % to QB's all the way up to a 66%. Not once this decade has our defense been as bad as it was last year. Sacks dropped dramatically from 37 down to 24, and it's worse this year. The only thing that improved was the rush defense by 10 yards. I won't post the yardage, and ppg this year, because we all know how ugly it is right now.

I've laid the facts out for you in terms of numbers in regards to us and other teams that I believe were in the same situation we are now. Since the time Golden, and his staff has gotten on campus the defense hasn't been any kind of good. The numbers from last year are extremely misleading, and we were lucky Fisch decided to run a slow pace offense. There is no excuses to be this bad. We do not have the worse Dline in FBS football. Anyone who believes that is crazy. This is the worse defense in team history that goes all the way back to when they were considering cancelling the football program. People *****ed about Randy Shannon, people *****ed about Tim Walton, people *****ed about Bill Young, people *****ed about our last DC as well. None of them were ever this bad. Walton was horrible, and his defense would be a major upgrade to the crap we're seeing. I don't understand how anyone with football IQ of any kind can sit watch our defense, and see nothing wrong with the play calling. We don't attempt to take things the other team likes to do away. **** we don't even call plays for certain situations. It was 3rd and 1 the other day, and we called a **** zone, and had our safeties 12 yards of the LOS and our corners 7 yards off the LOS, and everyone and the mother knew ND was running. That is just terrible playcalling by the coach. It has nothing to do with the players at that point they would've gotten a first down against Alabama in that situation.
 
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Billymayscocainestash said:
When Golson got in the game we should've had 8 in the box, and forced him to beat us with his arm. We didn't do that which is insane. It's well known this guy can't throw that well. So why on earth are you still playing that soft zone? The playcalling was brutal last night. Some of the things I saw showed a complete lack of football intelligence. People can say whatever they like about the players not being that great, but I mean the players aren't being put in a position to win. A prime example of how scheme can make all the difference in the world is FSU's turnaround from 2009 to 2010, and Michigan's turnaround from 2010 to 2011.

In 2009 FSU was giving up 30 ppg and a ton of yards(435 to be exact which still a **** of a lot better than this **** we have) which is an insane number or the caliber of athletes(the same athletes we bring in) they had on the team. They dumped the defensive coaching staff and started over the next year there was a dramatic improvement. They only brought back 5 players, but their numbers improved to 19 ppg and 354 yards.

For Michigan under Rich Rod they never had a good defense from the time he got there to the time he was fired. They went from giving up 21 ppg, and being a pretty good defense under Lloyd Carr in his final year. Mind you that defense in Carr's final year only brought back 4 starters that year which is less than what we brought back this season. Their numbers jumped up to 28 ppg 367 yards after they switched to a 3-3-5 scheme. As Carr's players filtered out of the program things got worse. The second year their defense improved in ppg (27), but were giving up almost 400 yards per game. We're seeing something similar with our defense now except Rich Rod's were never this bad. In Rich Rod's final year the defense was giving up 35 ppg, and 451 yards.

Now they hire new coach switch the scheme, and you get an amazing overnight improvement. The defense ppg dropped to 17, and the yards dropped to 322. People claim we don't have the horses, but I'm sure the same was being said about these two teams ESPECIALLY Michigan.

People can say whatever they want about the players, and how terrible they are, but our defense wasn't any good last year either. The defense was so bad Fisch had to protect them by playing at an incredibly slow pace. We were the second most efficient offense in the country, but it didn't show in the numbers due to the slow pace we played, and the fact that the defense couldn't get off the field. The year after Shannon's coaching staff left our yards jumped from 323 to 360, and that's with the offense protecting the defense. Our team went from giving up a 49.7 comp % to QB's all the way up to a 66%. Not once this decade has our defense been as bad as it was last year. Sacks dropped dramatically from 37 down to 24, and it's worse this year. The only thing that improved was the rush defense by 10 yards. I won't post the yardage, and ppg this year, because we all know how ugly it is right now.

I've laid the facts out for you in terms of numbers in regards to us and other teams that I believe were in the same situation we are now. Since the time Golden, and his staff has gotten on campus the defense hasn't been any kind of good. The numbers from last year are extremely misleading, and we were lucky Fisch decided to run a slow pace offense. There is no excuses to be this bad. We do not have the worse Dline in FBS football. Anyone who believes that is crazy. This is the worse defense in team history that goes all the way back to when they were considering cancelling the football program. People *****ed about Randy Shannon, people *****ed about Tim Walton, people *****ed about Bill Young, people *****ed about our last DC as well. None of them were ever this bad. Walton was horrible, and his defense would be a major upgrade to the crap we're seeing. I don't understand how anyone with football IQ of any kind can sit watch our defense, and see nothing wrong with the play calling. We don't attempt to take things the other team likes to do away. **** we don't even call plays for certain situations. It was 3rd and 1 the other day, and we called a **** zone, and had our safeties 12 yards of the LOS and our corners 7 yards off the LOS, and everyone and the mother knew ND was running. That is just terrible playcalling by the coach. It has nothing to do with the players at that point they would've gotten a first down against Alabama in that situation.
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Lock the thread. Too many facts in this post! How anyone could disagree with the notion that our problems on defense go much further than youth is mystifying.
 
To build further on that post here are a few links. Total Yards rankings and ppg can be misleading.

Here a couple of links to sites with information in regards to defensive efficiency which is a much better measure of how well defense is playing imo.

Miami's Rankings last year Offense 3rd in the country in efficiency http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2011

Defense is ranked 71st http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2011

In 2010 Shannon's last year

Offense Rank 54th http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2010

Defensive Rank 14th http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2010

So there was a dramatic improvement once Fisch got his hands on the offense, and a dramatic fall off once Coach D started coaching the defense. A defense that returned 7 starters from the 14th most efficient defense in the country just the year before.

If you go through that site, and check out Temple you'll see they never had a defense ranked above the 40s in defensive efficiency under Coach D. In his last year at Temple in 2010 they were ranked 73rd in efficiency, but they had nice defensive numbers only giving up 19 a game, and 318 total yards. It should be noted the year after his departure bringing back only 5 starters those numbers improved to 13 ppg, and 312 total yards. Based on the numbers Fisch never had great defenses at Temple. Why people think this guy deserves a pass when he's doing the exact same thin here except a lot worse is beyond me. The numbers don't lie, and they confirm what we've heard an seen.
 
Finally got to see the first half.. We didn't play terribly.. We left 10-14 points out there too.. 4 had too many drops..
 
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Billymayscocainestash said:
To build further on that post here are a few links. Total Yards rankings and ppg can be misleading.

Here a couple of links to sites with information in regards to defensive efficiency which is a much better measure of how well defense is playing imo.

Miami's Rankings last year Offense 3rd in the country in efficiency http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2011

Defense is ranked 71st http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2011

In 2010 Shannon's last year

Offense Rank 54th http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2010

Defensive Rank 14th http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2010

So there was a dramatic improvement once Fisch got his hands on the offense, and a dramatic fall off once Coach D started coaching the defense. A defense that returned 7 starters from the 14th most efficient defense in the country just the year before.

If you go through that site, and check out Temple you'll see they never had a defense ranked above the 40s in defensive efficiency under Coach D. In his last year at Temple in 2010 they were ranked 73rd in efficiency, but they had nice defensive numbers only giving up 19 a game, and 318 total yards. It should be noted the year after his departure bringing back only 5 starters those numbers improved to 13 ppg, and 312 total yards. Based on the numbers Fisch never had great defenses at Temple. Why people think this guy deserves a pass when he's doing the exact same thin here except a lot worse is beyond me. The numbers don't lie, and they confirm what we've heard an seen.
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LULZ at that metric. What's the formula behind that? Sounds far more arcane than PER. Seems like teams in weaker conferences get punished severely for playing teams of their own caliber. According to that metric, Okie State had the 3rd best defense in the country. I don't think so.

Going by yards per play (a stat I believe you were fond of last month), Temple was 8th in 2010.
 
ethiocane8126 said:
Billymayscocainestash said:
When Golson got in the game we should've had 8 in the box, and forced him to beat us with his arm. We didn't do that which is insane. It's well known this guy can't throw that well. So why on earth are you still playing that soft zone? The playcalling was brutal last night. Some of the things I saw showed a complete lack of football intelligence. People can say whatever they like about the players not being that great, but I mean the players aren't being put in a position to win. A prime example of how scheme can make all the difference in the world is FSU's turnaround from 2009 to 2010, and Michigan's turnaround from 2010 to 2011.

In 2009 FSU was giving up 30 ppg and a ton of yards(435 to be exact which still a **** of a lot better than this **** we have) which is an insane number or the caliber of athletes(the same athletes we bring in) they had on the team. They dumped the defensive coaching staff and started over the next year there was a dramatic improvement. They only brought back 5 players, but their numbers improved to 19 ppg and 354 yards.

For Michigan under Rich Rod they never had a good defense from the time he got there to the time he was fired. They went from giving up 21 ppg, and being a pretty good defense under Lloyd Carr in his final year. Mind you that defense in Carr's final year only brought back 4 starters that year which is less than what we brought back this season. Their numbers jumped up to 28 ppg 367 yards after they switched to a 3-3-5 scheme. As Carr's players filtered out of the program things got worse. The second year their defense improved in ppg (27), but were giving up almost 400 yards per game. We're seeing something similar with our defense now except Rich Rod's were never this bad. In Rich Rod's final year the defense was giving up 35 ppg, and 451 yards.

Now they hire new coach switch the scheme, and you get an amazing overnight improvement. The defense ppg dropped to 17, and the yards dropped to 322. People claim we don't have the horses, but I'm sure the same was being said about these two teams ESPECIALLY Michigan.

People can say whatever they want about the players, and how terrible they are, but our defense wasn't any good last year either. The defense was so bad Fisch had to protect them by playing at an incredibly slow pace. We were the second most efficient offense in the country, but it didn't show in the numbers due to the slow pace we played, and the fact that the defense couldn't get off the field. The year after Shannon's coaching staff left our yards jumped from 323 to 360, and that's with the offense protecting the defense. Our team went from giving up a 49.7 comp % to QB's all the way up to a 66%. Not once this decade has our defense been as bad as it was last year. Sacks dropped dramatically from 37 down to 24, and it's worse this year. The only thing that improved was the rush defense by 10 yards. I won't post the yardage, and ppg this year, because we all know how ugly it is right now.

I've laid the facts out for you in terms of numbers in regards to us and other teams that I believe were in the same situation we are now. Since the time Golden, and his staff has gotten on campus the defense hasn't been any kind of good. The numbers from last year are extremely misleading, and we were lucky Fisch decided to run a slow pace offense. There is no excuses to be this bad. We do not have the worse Dline in FBS football. Anyone who believes that is crazy. This is the worse defense in team history that goes all the way back to when they were considering cancelling the football program. People *****ed about Randy Shannon, people *****ed about Tim Walton, people *****ed about Bill Young, people *****ed about our last DC as well. None of them were ever this bad. Walton was horrible, and his defense would be a major upgrade to the crap we're seeing. I don't understand how anyone with football IQ of any kind can sit watch our defense, and see nothing wrong with the play calling. We don't attempt to take things the other team likes to do away. **** we don't even call plays for certain situations. It was 3rd and 1 the other day, and we called a **** zone, and had our safeties 12 yards of the LOS and our corners 7 yards off the LOS, and everyone and the mother knew ND was running. That is just terrible playcalling by the coach. It has nothing to do with the players at that point they would've gotten a first down against Alabama in that situation.
Click to expand...

Lock the thread. Too many facts in this post! How anyone could disagree with the notion that our problems on defense go much further than youth is mystifying.
Click to expand...

completely mind boggling. it is like bizarro world.

I have been trying to reserve judgement on coach D but at this point I don't think there is any chance of him being what we need. if he is this bad now, his ceiling is pretty low.

I think the guy needs to go unfortunately. idk if AG will be able to do it
 
I'm tired of excuses, what we have been doing all year ain't working, try something different. We could very easily lose the rest of our games, including Duke, if we don't try a new approach on D
 
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