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To all the Coach Coley haters

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are there really coley haters? can we all agree our offense, and our QB play was much better when fisch was here?
 
DaU83 said:
are there really coley haters? can we all agree our offense, and our QB play was much better when fisch was here?
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If you look at the numbers in total, our offense/QB play was about equal this year to last year.

The key difference is that if you look (especially at Morris' numbers), the offense got better as the year went on under Fisch in his last season before bolting to the Jags. Under Coley this past year, it regressed.

The explosive plays were there against F$U/VT/Duke/Pitt/UVA as they were most of the year, but we couldn't convert on 3rd down nor possess the football nearly as well as earlier in the year. Look at the splits:

Aug/Sept (FAU/UF/Sav St/USF) - 37.5% on 3rd down
Oct (GT/UNC/Wake) - 46% on 3rd down
Nov (F$U/VT/Duke/UVA/Pitt) - 32.8% on 3rd down
Dec (Louisville) - 0.00% on 3rd down

You don't win many ballgames with a 3rd down percentage approaching John Blutarsky's GPA at Faber College.

And to show I'm not a complete prick--here's the same split stats defensively (where we sucked as well):

Aug/Sept (FAU/UF/Sav St/USF) - 26% on 3rd down
Oct (GT/UNC/Wake) - 40% on 3rd down
Nov (F$U/VT/Duke/UVA/Pitt) - 54% on 3rd down
Dec (Louisville) - 57% on 3rd down

The O couldn't stay on the field enough (especially in the bowl game), and the D couldn't get off of it enough (especially in the bowl game). Recipe for disaster, no matter how you want to frame it, or who you want to blame for it.
 
2012 3rd Down Conv. Splits:

Offense:
Aug/Sept (BC/K-State/Bethune-Cookman/GT/NC State) - 47%
Oct (ND/UNC/F$U) - 32.5%
Nov (VT/UVA/USF/Duke) - 33%

Defense:
Aug/Sept (BC/K-State/Bethune-Cookman/GT/NC State) - 45%
Oct (ND/UNC/F$U) - 39%
Nov (VT/UVA/USF/Duke) - 41%
 
OP is doing great work in this thread.

If you don't think Golden has thrown Coley and the offense under the bus in order to protect his friend and the defense then you're not paying attention.
 
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NVA CANE said:
OP is doing great work in this thread.

If you don't think Golden has thrown Coley and the offense under the bus in order to protect his friend and the defense then you're not paying attention.
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Yeah I think they are arguing past each other and BWCD doesn't want to concede the point the OP made.
 
BWCD said:
DaU83 said:
are there really coley haters? can we all agree our offense, and our QB play was much better when fisch was here?
Click to expand...
If you look at the numbers in total, our offense/QB play was about equal this year to last year.

The key difference is that if you look (especially at Morris' numbers), the offense got better as the year went on under Fisch in his last season before bolting to the Jags. Under Coley this past year, it regressed.

The explosive plays were there against F$U/VT/Duke/Pitt/UVA as they were most of the year, but we couldn't convert on 3rd down nor possess the football nearly as well as earlier in the year. Look at the splits:

Aug/Sept (FAU/UF/Sav St/USF) - 37.5% on 3rd down
Oct (GT/UNC/Wake) - 46% on 3rd down
Nov (F$U/VT/Duke/UVA/Pitt) - 32.8% on 3rd down
Dec (Louisville) - 0.00% on 3rd down

You don't win many ballgames with a 3rd down percentage approaching John Blutarsky's GPA at Faber College.

And to show I'm not a complete prick--here's the same split stats defensively (where we sucked as well):

Aug/Sept (FAU/UF/Sav St/USF) - 26% on 3rd down
Oct (GT/UNC/Wake) - 40% on 3rd down
Nov (F$U/VT/Duke/UVA/Pitt) - 54% on 3rd down
Dec (Louisville) - 57% on 3rd down

The O couldn't stay on the field enough (especially in the bowl game), and the D couldn't get off of it enough (especially in the bowl game). Recipe for disaster, no matter how you want to frame it, or who you want to blame for it.
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We were basically an "all or nothing" offense. To be fair, a lot of that was due to our QB + Duke's injury.
 
Miami82 said:
NVA CANE said:
OP is doing great work in this thread.

If you don't think Golden has thrown Coley and the offense under the bus in order to protect his friend and the defense then you're not paying attention.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think they are arguing past each other and BWCD doesn't want to concede the point the OP made.
Click to expand...
All I have a problem with is the OP trying to say the offense was good when they were provably not as good as most would think. They were explosive and made pretty plays, but this is not a good pro-style offense, like we're supposed to be (just as the D isn't attacking and aggressive, as they should be). That's my fundamental gripe with the premise of this cat's line of thought.

I'm not disagreeing that the O was the strength of the team as opposed to the D. That's abundantly clear to Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder both...and I just had Lasik done 2 years ago...so my eyes are fine. There, indeed, was blame to put on the O this year as well, though. Honestly--they probably looked better in a lot of people's eyes due to how bad the D sucked.

I also have an issue with someone who takes one quote out of context without reading the whole thing. OP posted 5 or so quotes from Golden, claiming that he never blamed the defense for anything...and almost every quote contained some criticism of the defense. I'm sorry that I have a problem with someone misrepresenting quotes in order to somehow fit their argument and their aim of finding something else to bytch about Golden on...not because I love Golden or want to defend him, just because it's a dumb way go about things.
 
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You guys are twisting chit and that's for sure. Al knows his defense sucks donkeys kicks. He is saying that we have such a good offense that we should be able to lean on it to keep the defense off of the field. You can spin that however you want but you know that's the truth.

Also do you guys think the offense was better last year then with Fisch. I FN DON'T! I aint blaming that on Coley 100% but he gets some of the **** blame for horrible play calling. I will put the rest on Morris and a transition year. But our play calling was bad and that's a fact!

Al has his faults of course because he is the head coach. I think its more likely that he didn't fire coach limpd because that was Al's defense and coach D was following his marching orders. He just isn't going to fire a friend who is running the defense he schemed up. But I refuse to believe that Al thinks that the Offense was the problem last year and our defense was ok. That just doesn't make sense at all.
 
Offense was a lot worse then the defense in the bowl game if you guys cant see that you need to start making soccer your sport
 
I don't think it makes much sense to judge Coley based on last season.

It was his first time calling plays. He had major injuries to key offensive personnel. He had an incompetent QB. He had a horrid defense putting his unit in bad situations (often).

Could the offense have been better? Of course. But that doesn't mean Coley isn't going to develop into a stud of an OC (or HC, for that matter). Time will tell.
Given the circumstances, and short time frame, it just isn't fair to judge him (for better or worse) yet.
 
OK don't look at after Duke got hurt but it was still worse and what did Fisch have that he didn't? The botom line is that we had more talent on offense last year than we did the year before with Fisch. A bigger Duke, A better Clive, and kid named Coley. Coker didn't have a problem in his first year.

BosCane said:
I don't think it makes much sense to judge Coley based on last season.

It was his first time calling plays. He had major injuries to key offensive personnel. He had an incompetent QB. He had a horrid defense putting his unit in bad situations (often).

Could the offense have been better? Of course. But that doesn't mean Coley isn't going to develop into a stud of an OC (or HC, for that matter). Time will tell.
Given the circumstances, and short time frame, it just isn't fair to judge him (for better or worse) yet.
Click to expand...
 
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BosCane said:
I don't think it makes much sense to judge Coley based on last season.

It was his first time calling plays. He had major injuries to key offensive personnel. He had an incompetent QB. He had a horrid defense putting his unit in bad situations (often).

Could the offense have been better? Of course. But that doesn't mean Coley isn't going to develop into a stud of an OC (or HC, for that matter). Time will tell.
Given the circumstances, and short time frame, it just isn't fair to judge him (for better or worse) yet.
Click to expand...

see.. jedd fisch had that same incompetent QB and made him look competent.. ****, fisch made Jacory serviceable for a year.
 
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BosCane said:
I don't think it makes much sense to judge Coley based on last season.

It was his first time calling plays. He had major injuries to key offensive personnel. He had an incompetent QB. He had a horrid defense putting his unit in bad situations (often).

Could the offense have been better? Of course. But that doesn't mean Coley isn't going to develop into a stud of an OC (or HC, for that matter). Time will tell.
Given the circumstances, and short time frame, it just isn't fair to judge him (for better or worse) yet.
Click to expand...
1) It wasn't his first time calling plays. He was the OC at FIU under Cristobal for the 2007 season. He was hired away by Jimbo to F$U the next season to coach TE's and recruit.

2) I'm not judging him based on timespan, I'm judging him based on the product on the field, and how the playcalling seemed way to scattered and nonsensical given what the Offense needed to do in order to win with this horrible Defense not helping them out.

3) No question Duke's injury hurt the game planning pretty badly. It hurt the output of the running game. You know what's funny though? He found a way to use the power running game to beat UNC with Dallas Crawford. After that game, other than the one drive that Duke put us on his back against Wake, we pretty much abandoned trying to run Crawford downhill between the tackles...even though it had won us a game earlier in the year. Instead, he stuck with more of that stretch zone run to the boundary side that just didn't work all year long (even with Duke in the game). Good OC's just don't do that...and it's a red flag worth pointing out. I'm willing to give him time to fix it, but not much.

4) Dorsett's injury only hurt us in that he wasn't there to run fly routes for Morris anymore. Stacy Coley and Herb Waters handled that role just fine in Dorsett's absence, so I don't really hold that up as a hindrance to Coley's available weapons.

5) How come Morris was starting to look competent under Fisch near the end of the 2012 season, and then was a mental midget who only knew how to throw the deep ball under Coley? Some of that has to do with Morris' battling injuries AND his work ethic, I think...but I also believe it has something to do with the way Coley coached him to play QB, and the playcalling as well.
 
No doubt Fisch got more out of this offense, and more out of Morris in particular.

But he had more time (here and experience before as well) to accomplish that. Maybe Fisch is just further along at this point in his career as an OC than Coley. Or maybe Fisch just has a way with QBs.

Either way, Fisch had a healthy Morris. Coley did not. I blame Golden (and did so at the time) when it became obvious Morris was severely hampered (beyond his typical mental deficiency) on the field. He should have been pulled.

Coley was saddled with a lame duck QB and his star RB went down hard. Crawford ran tough for a few games and looked like a decent fill-in, but he ran with no authority whatsoever the last few games. Worn down or hiding an injury, but it was obvious he wasn't the same player.

What it boils down to, for me, is that Coley deserves more time (based on his recruiting prowess alone). The fact that Fisch had more success than him 2 seasons ago, in totally different circumstances, does not mean that Coley can't develop into a big asset for this program.
 
BosCane said:
No doubt Fisch got more out of this offense, and more out of Morris in particular.

But he had more time (here and experience before as well) to accomplish that. Maybe Fisch is just further along at this point in his career as an OC than Coley. Or maybe Fisch just has a way with QBs.

Either way, Fisch had a healthy Morris. Coley did not. I blame Golden (and did so at the time) when it became obvious Morris was severely hampered (beyond his typical mental deficiency) on the field. He should have been pulled.

Coley was saddled with a lame duck QB and his star RB went down hard. Crawford ran tough for a few games and looked like a decent fill-in, but he ran with no authority whatsoever the last few games. Worn down or hiding an injury, but it was obvious he wasn't the same player.

What it boils down to, for me, is that Coley deserves more time (based on his recruiting prowess alone). The fact that Fisch had more success than him 2 seasons ago, in totally different circumstances, does not mean that Coley can't develop into a big asset for this program.
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Honestly I didn't notice much of a difference in how our offense performed. In 2012 we feasted on garbage defenses while getting shut down by the good teams. We actually performed better against VT offensively and that was without Duke.

Morris did look better but he wasn't battling injuries and he was still very inconsistent (week to week, play to play).
 
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