The myth of Mario the recruiter

[RVACane]

I really don't think you are following the logic here. All I'm doing is applying the exact same criticsm used to so obviously show that Mario is a bad coach and applying it to Deboer and Kiffin lol. If someone says "everyone named albert is stupid" and I reply "using that logic, Albert Einstein is an idiot". .. well what do you think the takeaway is?

It is a fact that Deboer just had 3 conference losses (or regular season losses at all) with Alabama for the first time since 2010 (13 seasons). In our entire history of being in the ACC we have only lost LESS than 3 games 3times with this being the 4th. Anyways, In doing so Deboer lost to mighty Vanderbilt for the first time since 1984. He was blown out by Oklahoma who had only 1 other win in the SEC this season...

Maybe the coach who has progressively won more games every year for us, won the recruitment of Cam Ward and got us the #1 offense in the country this year, and is about to finish with our highest or 2nd highest ranking at the end of the regular season since 2002 when we lost the National Championship isn't a bad coach... just a thought.

He’s not a good game coach in all seriousness. I think he’s improved though from last year. He won’t do that no kneel thing at the end of a game again I’m sure.

As a recruiter he’s very good. If money is equal he’s capable of landing classes in the 4-8 range annually. I don’t think he’ll land a top 10 class this time but I am hopeful that we spend the money on quality portal players though again, I’m not thrilled with a bunch of his evals. I think his evals are fine on the OL, TE and RB. I hope we stay in the top 12 with the flip projections.

 

[hcanes100]

to me, with the chips on the table, the class is important. But he has to get the portal to fill big needs and get a new DC. If Dawson gets a HC gig, we maybe having a complete rebuild.

That said, he should have a DC and OC on standby every single season regardless, so in all seriousness the D situation shouldn't be as bad as we think in that if it is as good as the OC situation with Dawson is, well we are in the exact same situation rehiring period.

Get the basics right, we have no basics on D. That is the remaining piece. The concept of who we are on O and what we want to to do is there. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rellyrell]

I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. When I say Mario is an elite recruiter, I'm talking about his relentlessness and ability to sign kids. That's the skill other coaches acknowledge about Mario.

But if someone says Mario is elite at acquiring talent, and not just "recruiting," then that's a different argument. Your post raises legit concerns about his ability to evaluate.

I tend to think he's decent there. In last year's draft alone, he signed/evaluated two 2nd rounders, a 3rd rounder, two 4th rounders, and a 6th rounder. But your post raises good points about the washouts from his Oregon and Miami classes.

My personal view on Mario is that his talent acquisition ability is better than his coaching ability. He's had strong seasons at three different spots. He won a conference title at FIU after inheriting a winless team. He had a top five finish at Oregon, which is one of only six in their 107-year history. And of course, he just had Miami's second 10-win season in two decades. I think those seasons reflect more on his ability to acquire talent than to elevate talent.

But it begs the question: can he recruit well enough to make the program a consistent winner, if he's not elevating the talent? That's the whiskey in the highball. I don't know the answer. If the past two decades of Canes football are any indication, he will probably fail. But his recruiting will give him a chance.


I think this is wrong. That class already produced two 2nd rounders (Kingsley Suamataia and Jackson Powers-Johnson), and a highly productive 4th rounder (Troy Franklin). Donte Thortnon and Terrance Ferguson are probably going to be mid-rounders this year. That's not elite by any means, but it's not a "figment of imagination" either.

Suamataia played for BYU, Thornton plays for Tennessee. I acknowledged Franklin, Jackson Powers, & Ferguson as hits. As a coach, it is ur job to:
1st evaluate
2nd recruit
3rd develop

Mario has been 1/3 consistently. He’s developed a couple (in a relative sense compared to how many he’s acquired). It’s cool that he identified Kingsley, but Kingsley didn’t play for him. It’s cool he identified Thornton, but Thornton was developed at UTenn.

****, I could argue both Franklin, & Ferguson’s best yrs have come under Lanning, BUT since those guys played under Mario, even for a season just like Jackson-Powers, I will give him that credit.

Hypothetically, let’s say all of the transfers from our 2022 class, & 2023 classes ball out at their next schools…why would we care? How is that benefiting our program? If they’re developed elsewhere, then how is Mario getting credit for that?

Again, the elite recruiters are consistently bringing in Top 7 classes, absurdly high blue chip ratios, & a composite score of 91.5 or higher. We’ve fallen in love w class rankings & not the intricacies that r involved in said class rankings, which is y I brought up the infamous 2008 class that was “ranked” #1 overall, but that blue chip ratio & composition score was not top 10.

Just to be clear, this is not a **** on Mario: I trust him completely along the OL, TE, RB, & even DE to a point…QB, CB, S, DT, & even WR has been touch & go, which is y I said he’s more above average than elite.

 

[DMoney]

Suamataia played for BYU, Thornton plays for Tennessee. I acknowledged Franklin, Jackson Powers, & Ferguson as hits. As a coach, it is ur job to:
1st evaluate
2nd recruit
3rd develop

Mario has been 1/3 consistently. He’s developed a couple (in a relative sense compared to how many he’s acquired). It’s cool that he identified Kingsley, but Kingsley didn’t play for him. It’s cool he identified Thornton, but Thornton was developed at UTenn.

Mario left after 2021 so he didn't have much time with those guys.

In terms of development, I would say Penei Sewell, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Javon Holland and even Justin Herbert are examples of guys who came into the pros ready to play.

But I don't disagree with what you wrote. There's another level we need to get to. The most important part is being consistent on the field and not blowing opportunities like we did Saturday.

 

[Rellyrell]

Mario left after 2021 so he didn't have much time with those guys.

In terms of development, I would say Penei Sewell, Kayvon Thibodeaux, Javon Holland and even Justin Herbert are examples of guys who came into the pros ready to play.

But I don't disagree with what you wrote. There's another level we need to get to. The most important part is being consistent on the field and not blowing opportunities like we did Saturday.

1000% agree.

 

[Alex_Dynamix]

In fairness, it's all fanbases. Some of the crap that I've seen from Alabama fans during the Saban era made what we are seeing now as tame. Ryan Day is likely going to get canned even though he's won 10+ games every season he's been there (Covid year excluded). OSU fans and alums want him gone.

Yea it is all fanbases to a certain extent but the problem is our fanbase thinks were supposed to be on par with those programs after being ***/mediocre since 2003, the reality is we if we fire the guy the University CHOSE to give full football support you better hope the next guy can "Scheme" us to a natty cause that support would be all but gone.

We got a recruiter in a world where NIL/$ has taken over the need for it and you more importantly need someone who can x and o, develop and discipline.

Not really convinced he does any of those. I do love the dynamic of having strong offensive lines year in year out. So that's the main thing he brings imo.

i believe the young DL we recruited last year (and 2023) are as talented as we’ve had in recent memory it all depends on who’s coaching them tho

 

[252cane]

Are you serious Cam isn't coming back. He's going to back the truck for a Tx Qb. With Miami speed is the ultimate combo. Watch what SMU do or the other TX QB Klubnik

Huh? Might need to put the bottle down

 

[The canesman]

I don’t put as much credence in recruiting as I once did. Yea Mario can recruit he’s pretty good at it. To me it’s more about getting the team to buy in to staying and trying to get the job done. NIL and the portal have destroyed the game. Play for pay and players playing for themselves it’s become a one and done hopeful situation for many teams now. You have to hope that the portal provides players who are already developed. Today it’s a constant state of rebuild there’s no wait till next year.

 

[mcnaire2004]

Again, I’m not going to argue if he’s the guy or not. I’m frustrated, too, and he has a lot to prove.

But people are getting emotional and trying to have it both ways. If he can’t recruit OR coach, he is winning a lot of games at very different spots by accident.

Winning a lot of games at a lot of places? He is a .500 coach. Let's not embellish a "lot of games" to make it look like Mario had a massive track record.

Talking about the Oregon rebuild he mentions how it was before "we" got there. He just never mentions that "we" is Taggart. It's how he tells stories to embellish upon the facts because he does not think the facts are impressive enough. I'm not commenting on his level of rebuild I'm just finding similarities between how you tell stories and how Mario tells stories.

 

[mcnaire2004]

This post conflates recruiting with evaluation.

People commonly conflate those two. Typically when someone is referred to as a "good recruiter" it is assumed that they are someone who acquires quality talent.

Are we supposed to look at fine print and realize that we didn't specify a good recruiter of good players?

Whether or not Mario is a good enough evaluator is a fair topic worthy of further analysis, such as a comparison of hit rates with peer schools. But if you're talking about the ability to acquire targets, the fact is that Mario signed the best classes in Oregon's history to that point.

I believe in context you are making the same conflation by implication here. Or that's least how it reads.

Dan Lanning took it to another level for three reasons: (1) he himself is a beast and maybe the best recruiter in America;

Okay

(2) the program was at a higher level when he inherited it;

Yes this is the Bob the builder section.

and (3) Phil Knight NIL money.

We have a top tier NIL program, right?

 

[mcnaire2004]

He defeated two Top 5 Big 10 teams during that run, both away from home.

Manny had more ranked wins with Miami (4) then Mario has had with Miami (1) over the same amount of time.

 

[Keyman009]

We win with Emory at Qb

 

[Fort_Lauderdale954]

This. Especially player development.
Not sure Dawson or Guidry are teachers at all. Dawson seems to be a x and o guy, but he doesnt have feel. Not sure what Guidry does tbh.

He gives solid speeches like mario, nothing else

 

[DMoney]

I believe in context you are making the same conflation by implication here. Or that's least how it reads

Those classes were the highest-rated in Oregon history. So he elevated the program's to win battles (which is what I call "recruiting ability.")

We have a top tier NIL program, right?

Of course, but NIL didn't exist for much of that Oregon run. NIL helped that program make another recruiting leap once he left.

 

[hoops156]

Manny had more ranked wins with Miami (4) then Mario has had with Miami (1) over the same amount of time.

thats awful. at this point, manny and mario are the same exact miami coach. same record. staff changes each year. we just paid more for it with mario. it is what it is.

 

[flips]

@Rellyrell totally fair response. I went back and forth between "great" and "good/very good" - ended up being in a ****-stirring mood. Point I was attempting to make was: if Mario fails here, it's not going to be becuse of his recruiting chops. I'll go so far as to say not because of his evaluations either. He'll fail because he continues to make -EV decisions on gameday, which puts us at a marked disadvantage against elite coaches with great talent and/or results in losing games when we're heavily favored. Do you disagree?

 

[JHallCanes]

These things always go off the rails when development and evals come up because no one has a specific way to quantify that and either “side” you’re on you can cherry pick

Colbie Young went from a nobody to a breakout player in a garbage offense to moving to UGA who has no receivers and never to be heard from again

Just one example you can probably find ten different ways to spin this

 

[SinisterCane]

Elite recruiter and Miami secondary in the same sentence just don’t seem right to me like oil and water or something ain’t mixing

 

[Hurracanes]

Again, I’m not going to argue if he’s the guy or not. I’m frustrated, too, and he has a lot to prove.

But people are getting emotional and trying to have it both ways. If he can’t recruit OR coach, he is winning a lot of games at very different spots by accident.

Idk if Mario is the one to bring us back up championship level or not but I do know we would not have the support the university has given him if he wasn’t here. The other HC would not have the $ and support Mario brought to this program.

 

[Rellyrell]

@Rellyrell totally fair response. I went back and forth between "great" and "good/very good" - ended up being in a ****-stirring mood. Point I was attempting to make was: if Mario fails here, it's not going to be becuse of his recruiting chops. I'll go so far as to say not because of his evaluations either. He'll fail because he continues to make -EV decisions on gameday, which puts us at a marked disadvantage against elite coaches with great talent and/or results in losing games when we're heavily favored. Do you disagree?

If he fails here, it will be due to game day coaching & roster management. I would say game day coaching more than anything.