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the culture seems to be in a good spot

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ball915 said:
It's clear we've upgraded "football guys" with players that care way more about winning/losing. The last two seasons the team has demonstrated their willingness to fight for all four quarters which is a major change for the better from where we've been. There is more under the surface we don't see or know and will let those actually connected to the program elaborate on those details.
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I like the mental makeup overall of this squad which is a credit to mario and staff who recruited these guys and had them buy in.

This is one of the better football teams in the sport.

Having said that, if this is our ceiling and we go back to 7-5 seasons then Mario will be fired sooner rather than later.

That’s not enough of a return. Others are doing more with less.
 
FL Cane said:
We've had a huge shift in culture, which is vital to successful program.

We went from this:


To a team full of draft eligible guys that are opting to play into a bowl game for the sake of getting 11-wins.
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The hope is this eventually makes a marked difference in wins and losses.

Because the investments and culture change so far have only yielded one more win than Manny Diaz through three seasons.

Next year will tell me a lot about Mario.
 
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JeffreyG said:
I want to buy in on the culture aspect but is it possible NIL deals were negotiated with appearing in bowl game?
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This is an inconvenient truth for a lot of fans.

It flies in the face of the narrative that Cam is such a team player that he would jeopardize his substantial future earnings to play in a meaningless bowl game. There is absolutely zero chance he and/or his handlers would agree to this without adequate financial incentive and protection.

Him "opting-in" is probably due to a combination of NIL conditions plus extra insurance coverage. It's silly or naive to believe otherwise.
 
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
For as much as I want to see Cam and Martinez tear it up in the bowl game, common sense tells me this is a dumb move by all. Players opt out of bowl games all the time. Why? So that they don't fall from a Day 1 pick to a Day 3 pick and so on. Yes NIL. Yes football guys. Yes team spirit. Yes culture? I mean maybe, but @JHallCanes nailed it when he said these dudes were like this before Mario and will be like this long after Mario.

Here's the thing. We are playing in an exhibition game for all intents and purposes. It literally means nothing. Yes 11-2 looks a lot better than 10-3. This game doesn't count againt redshirt. This game is against a second tier program. This game will likely have a horrible TV share. So what does the program gain by these guys playing? Excitement one more time? 11-2? It's sort of like banging your old high school girlfriend at your 20 year reunion. Sounds fun. Feels good for a bit. Then you get that strangle scratchy feeling that reminds you why you didn't stick together....and you realize it was over. Rather than playing Cam and getting crabs, wouldn't it be better to play the young guys? Let them practice and prep like a real game week? Get some real film to assess in the offseason if these guys (ahem Emory) are worth keeping around?

I realize this post won't be popular with the guys who are dying to see Cam play. That's ok. If you peel back the emotion, most people will see the long term value in playing the backups, regardless of outcome. If you don't agree, that's ok. It just means you're stupid have a different opinion. ;)

Have an awesome day and Go Canes!
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When did bowl games officially become "exhibitions"? When the BCS started? Were they ever "real" games to begin with - aside from the 3 or 4 which may have had an effect on the national champion vote in the pre-BCS era?

Should seniors even be allowed to play in the bowls since they are to play the next generation of players? For that matter, why should any draft eligible athlete play in any regular season games once their team has been eliminated from national championship or conference championship consideration? Shouldn't they have enough game film for NFL scouts by their senior year anyway?
 
South AfriCane said:
This is an inconvenient truth for a lot of fans.

It flies in the face of the narrative that Cam is such a team player that he would jeopardize his substantial future earnings to play in a meaningless bowl game. There is absolutely zero chance he and/or his handlers would agree to this without adequate financial incentive and protection.

Him "opting-in" is probably due to a combination of NIL conditions plus extra insurance coverage. It's silly or naive to believe otherwise.
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We all act in our own self interest. Everything else is an excuse we tell ourselves. May as well keep the narrative and keep putting the bowl game in the contacts. Better for recruiting anyway.
 
CaneinBroward said:
When did bowl games officially become "exhibitions"? When the BCS started? Were they ever "real" games to begin with - aside from the 3 or 4 which may have had an effect on the national champion vote in the pre-BCS era?

Should seniors even be allowed to play in the bowls since they are to play the next generation of players? For that matter, why should any draft eligible athlete play in any regular season games once their team has been eliminated from national championship or conference championship consideration? Shouldn't they have enough game film for NFL scouts by their senior year anyway?
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As technology continues to shrink the world regional pride goes away at the expense of the greater.

Bowl games did matter to teams and players and fans. The money needle has fine-tuned things such that only the biggest games matter.

The same reason is why regional conferences are now obsolete.
 
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CaneinBroward said:
When did bowl games officially become "exhibitions"? When the BCS started? Were they ever "real" games to begin with - aside from the 3 or 4 which may have had an effect on the national champion vote in the pre-BCS era?

Should seniors even be allowed to play in the bowls since they are to play the next generation of players? For that matter, why should any draft eligible athlete play in any regular season games once their team has been eliminated from national championship or conference championship consideration? Shouldn't they have enough game film for NFL scouts by their senior year anyway?
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When did bowl games officially become "exhibitions"?

When the number of bowl games exceeded about 15 (appx mid 80's). I get they "count," hence my for all intents and purposes semi-deisclaimer. When they started playing games in Boca Raton and Nassau, they officially had jumped the shark. Based upon your comments related to the pre-BCS era, you have to know this is what I was driving at.

Should seniors even be allowed to play in the bowls since they are to play the next generation of players?

I didn't say they're not allowed, nor did I suggest that.

For that matter, why should any draft eligible athlete play in any regular season games once their team has been eliminated from national championship or conference championship consideration?

That would depend upon each individual situation. If you can't see that being a Top 5 pick and playing in this bowl game carries significantly more potential risk/loss than a guy looking to put one last game on film and maybe go from Round 6 to Round 5, then there's no point continuing this chat. I also never insinuated these sentiments, but I answered your question nonetheless.

Shouldn't they have enough game film for NFL scouts by their senior year anyway?

This is the sort of logic girlfriends from my teen years would use to try to argue their point. It's unrelated to what I said. The answer to your question though is yes. If Cam throws 5 picks in the **** Tart Bowl, do you really think he's falling out of the top 5? If X catches 29 passes for 376 yards with 9 TD's, is he all of a sudden going to become the #1 pick? We both know those answers.

Here's the deal. You want to see Cam play in the bowl game? No problem, I get it. Just say it. Trying to attack my points via Strawman arguments, creative narratives and circular commentary is just unnecessary. My strikethrough comment (about being stupid) was a joke. It's why I made it a strikethrough and put the dumb winky face emoji next to it. I'm fine with you (and others) having a different opinion, but just say "Hey man, I want to see Cam again and I don't care if it's selfish on my part." That would at least be genuine. You can even omit the last phrase about selfish. The hyperbole used to shoot down my points just doesn't work. I am not trying to get snarky with you. I'm trying to keep it respectful because, as I mentioned in this reply and in the original comment you replied to, that I get that others will have different opinions. Selfishly, I'd like to see Cam and Martinez again too. I just don't think it's in their best interest.
 
Miami has always had culture, just not always a good one.

What the program has lacked was player-led leadership. One of Cam's defining traits is his leadership. TVD didn't have his WRs cell phone numbers. Cam told a WR who wanted to work out elsewhere to go play elsewhere.

We might have had a better defense if someone on that side of the ball had those balls. Overall talent and coaching notwithstanding.
 
mcnaire2004 said:
As technology continues to shrink the world regional pride goes away at the expense of the greater.

Bowl games did matter to teams and players and fans. The money needle has fine-tuned things such that only the biggest games matter.

The same reason is why regional conferences are now obsolete.
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Politics What GIF by CBS


What does regional pride (or lack thereof) have to do with college kids playing in a bowl game and fans wanting to see more football?
 
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
When did bowl games officially become "exhibitions"?

When the number of bowl games exceeded about 15 (appx mid 80's). I get they "count," hence my for all intents and purposes semi-deisclaimer. When they started playing games in Boca Raton and Nassau, they officially had jumped the shark. Based upon your comments related to the pre-BCS era, you have to know this is what I was driving at.

Should seniors even be allowed to play in the bowls since they are to play the next generation of players?

I didn't say they're not allowed, nor did I suggest that.

For that matter, why should any draft eligible athlete play in any regular season games once their team has been eliminated from national championship or conference championship consideration?

That would depend upon each individual situation. If you can't see that being a Top 5 pick and playing in this bowl game carries significantly more potential risk/loss than a guy looking to put one last game on film and maybe go from Round 6 to Round 5, then there's no point continuing this chat. I also never insinuated these sentiments, but I answered your question nonetheless.

Shouldn't they have enough game film for NFL scouts by their senior year anyway?

This is the sort of logic girlfriends from my teen years would use to try to argue their point. It's unrelated to what I said. The answer to your question though is yes. If Cam throws 5 picks in the **** Tart Bowl, do you really think he's falling out of the top 5? If X catches 29 passes for 376 yards with 9 TD's, is he all of a sudden going to become the #1 pick? We both know those answers.

Here's the deal. You want to see Cam play in the bowl game? No problem, I get it. Just say it. Trying to attack my points via Strawman arguments, creative narratives and circular commentary is just unnecessary. My strikethrough comment (about being stupid) was a joke. It's why I made it a strikethrough and put the dumb winky face emoji next to it. I'm fine with you (and others) having a different opinion, but just say "Hey man, I want to see Cam again and I don't care if it's selfish on my part." That would at least be genuine. You can even omit the last phrase about selfish. The hyperbole used to shoot down my points just doesn't work. I am not trying to get snarky with you. I'm trying to keep it respectful because, as I mentioned in this reply and in the original comment you replied to, that I get that others will have different opinions. Selfishly, I'd like to see Cam and Martinez again too. I just don't think it's in their best interest.
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Frankly, if Cam chose to skip the game, I would harbor no ill will toward him at all. However, I'm not going to bash him for actually choosing to play in the game either. I was at the OB when Mel Bratton tore up his knee against the Sooners for the national championship.

My point was guys sitting out bowl games has gone far beyond just the guys who are forecast to be top 5 picks. The Canes had what 10 or 11 guys sitting out last year's game?

You may think they're exhibitions for next year's squad, but many consider them part of the current season. The last chance to put on the uniform, play a game against a school not often on the schedule, and a formal way to close out the year. Even pre-BCS, only 3 or 4 games "meant" anything, but they still played them and they still mattered to them.

Now, in the era of NIL and Lloyds of London insurance policies, much fewer reasons for anyone to sit IMO.
 
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FL Cane said:
We've had a huge shift in culture, which is vital to successful program.

We went from this:


To a team full of draft eligible guys that are opting to play into a bowl game for the sake of getting 11-wins.
Click to expand...

Careful

Manny was the coach that day and it’s pretty clear a good portion of this board doesn’t remember a thing from his tenure here
 
CaneinBroward said:
Frankly, if Cam chose to skip the game, I would harbor no ill will toward him at all. However, I'm not going to bash him for actually choosing to play in the game either. I was at the OB when Mel Bratton tore up his knee against the Sooners for the national championship.

My point was guys sitting out bowl games has gone far beyond just the guys who are forecast to be top 5 picks. The Canes had what 10 or 11 guys sitting out last year's game?

You may think they're exhibitions for next year's squad, but many consider them part of the current season. The last chance to put on the uniform, play a game against a school not often on the schedule, and a formal way to close out the year. Even pre-BCS, only 3 or 4 games "meant" anything, but they still played them and they still mattered to them.

Now, in the era of NIL and Lloyds of London insurance policies, much fewer reasons for anyone to sit IMO.
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Fair enough.

Truth - I’m disappointed.
 
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