Sun Life Stadium

[TriniMike]

What renovations are actually being discussed?

http://www.miamifirst.com/

Thanks Ray, I jus crawled out from under the rock, brushed myself off and was wondering what they're gonna do to hide the other 25k plus seats. Any help 1cn? It's been dark under there.

 

[cj8990]

Anyone ever seen this plan? http://kawneer.aias.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/3463.pdf

 

[OrangeCane]

Location has nothing to do with attendance. I ran the attendance numbers on our football team from the time we moved into Sun Life and the previous 25 years (starting with the 1983 championship team) at the Orange Bowl.

In the five years we've been at Sun Life, we've averaged 49,857 fans per game.
In the previous 25 years at the Orange Bowl, we averaged 49,421 fans per game.

There's no real difference in attendance between having the stadium in Little Havana or in Miami Gardens! Neither one was on or particularly near to the Coral Gables campus. If anything, it's easier for students to get to games now with the charter buses that leave directly from campus. When I was a student, we had to take the Metrorail, get off at Culmer Station, then hop on a Miami-Dade transit bus. That wasn't too bad, but getting back was a nightmare... it was faster to walk through traffic across the 12th Avenue bridge over the Miami River than it was to wait for the three buses that would line up outside the OB and get stuck in traffic. Having charter buses that offer a direct route from campus to the stadium and back is so much easier to deal with than having students rely on spotty and slow public transportation and/or walking through downtown Miami in the middle of the night.


(Numbers from: http://www.hurricanesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=28700&ATCLID=205549026)

 

[OrangeCane]

I never said on campus, I always wanted NEAR CAMPUS. We own lands nearby and there is Tropical Park.

I want a plan, I don't want this renovation as a long term solution.

Location is not the problem. If you think people don't go to Canes games because it's in Miami Gardens and not Miami then there is no hope for you. Students have actually been showing up since we moved to Sun Life. Having a stadium closer to campus will not solve our attendance issue or make a bit of difference IMO. We have had the same attendance problems for the past 20 years, a new stadium will not change that. The only solution is winning and having a good home schedule. It's just how South FL fans are.

I think there are way more non alum Canes fans in south dade than north dade and broward.

I think if the stadium was in South Dade you would have better non alum/student attendance. especially if they could catch the rail and didnt have to pay for parking.

The Metrorail ends at Dadeland, though, not too far south of the UM campus. They had talked about extending it to Homestead, but there's no money to do so.

It'd be interesting for someone to do a study of UM fans and see exactly where the majority of them live. If I had to guess, I'd think that they would be pretty evenly divided throughout South Florida.

BTW, having the stadium further south didn't change attendance -- look at my previous post about attendance at the Orange Bowl vs. Sun Life. It's the same, wherever it is.

 

[Consigliere]

I never said on campus, I always wanted NEAR CAMPUS. We own lands nearby and there is Tropical Park.

I want a plan, I don't want this renovation as a long term solution.

Location is not the problem. If you think people don't go to Canes games because it's in Miami Gardens and not Miami then there is no hope for you. Students have actually been showing up since we moved to Sun Life. Having a stadium closer to campus will not solve our attendance issue or make a bit of difference IMO. We have had the same attendance problems for the past 20 years, a new stadium will not change that. The only solution is winning and having a good home schedule. It's just how South FL fans are.

It has nothing to do with the students, it has to do with doing what is best for the program. The reason I said Miami Gardens is because it feels like a random area and there is no home feeling (like the OB). The goal should be to create our own home (even if it is long term plan). Personally, as a student at UM (03-07) I would have went anywhere the game was. Now even though I live in NYC, I am still a season ticket holder and distance has no effect on me (Miami Gardens versus Coral Gables) because it is still quite the trip.

I am just saying that we need our OWN PLACE. I am sure the same 45K-50K will show up but I would like them to show up to our own stadium.

 

[Consigliere]

Location has nothing to do with attendance. I ran the attendance numbers on our football team from the time we moved into Sun Life and the previous 25 years (starting with the 1983 championship team) at the Orange Bowl.

In the five years we've been at Sun Life, we've averaged 49,857 fans per game.
In the previous 25 years at the Orange Bowl, we averaged 49,421 fans per game.

There's no real difference in attendance between having the stadium in Little Havana or in Miami Gardens! Neither one was on or particularly near to the Coral Gables campus. If anything, it's easier for students to get to games now with the charter buses that leave directly from campus. When I was a student, we had to take the Metrorail, get off at Culmer Station, then hop on a Miami-Dade transit bus. That wasn't too bad, but getting back was a nightmare... it was faster to walk through traffic across the 12th Avenue bridge over the Miami River than it was to wait for the three buses that would line up outside the OB and get stuck in traffic. Having charter buses that offer a direct route from campus to the stadium and back is so much easier to deal with than having students rely on spotty and slow public transportation and/or walking through downtown Miami in the middle of the night.


(Numbers from: http://www.hurricanesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=28700&ATCLID=205549026)

It is not about the location per se, it is about having our own place.

OUR OWN PLACE.

 

[bomb]

How are they going to do this?

Tarp 30% of the seats?

This is BS and we deserve more, we want a plan for our own place.

Here's the plan: You should figure out a way to raise $400M and get the land and were good!

 

[cane305]

can the university get back in ticket sales/concessions what it has to invest to build a stadium close by?

Shalala claims no.

 

[weownfsu]

Smallish stadiums are relatively inexpensive. UCF's was only $55 million. I don't know where UM owns land and I don't know where this could actually be built, but it will NEVER happen unless there is some kind of legit movement or plan to at least get the ball rolling. It might take 10-15 years to have enough money and for things to come together with money and the county assisting but **** at least get the ball rolling somewhat. See what the County thinks. Won't happen on campus and dealing with the City of Miami is next to impossible but UM should try to build up some kind of support for it. Can't hurt.

 

[BoriCane]

If the Canes deserve a place of their own, then they will build a place. It ain't happening.

If they move the seats closer and have most everyone in the lower bowl, I think the game day experience will be improved. If the team can win and get 50k per game, the stadium won't be an issue.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Think long term.

Why can Tulane and Baylor do it? We have more TOTAL students then both of those schools, we have more tradition and we deserve it.

The problem is there is no plan, we know we have to build the stadium but there is no serious drive to do so. All this BS about fixing SLS is irrelevant to me because we still will be playing in Miami Gardens in a place that is not ours. SLS is now is terrible, putting a bandaide on it won't help much.

A plan needs to be developed, a plan with a lot of fund raising and and perhaps a debt sale. There is a lot of land in Miami and we own a lot too, nobody intelligent is saying an ON CAMPUS STADIUM...but how about a near campus stadium.

glad we can finally agree that on-campus isn't feasible. if we can somehow gather the funds and get it approved, tropical park or bust.

but let's be real, renovation with reduction to 50k is far better for us than what it is currently.

"renovation with reduction to 50k is far better for us than what it is currently." Votes seeking comment, do not trust Dolphins management at all. Only means tarps around upper level. Near Campus stadium is a must to improve local attendance and enhance college life experience for students.

 

[Consigliere]

How are they going to do this?

Tarp 30% of the seats?

This is BS and we deserve more, we want a plan for our own place.

Here's the plan: You should figure out a way to raise $400M and get the land and were good!

Ignorance again....

We own a ton of land already, was going to be used for the Science Department or building some campus (not sure the purpose) but now it is vacant. Someone else will chime on this (I think by the Metro Zoo) with the exact location.

So this is the point, start a fund raiser to build the stadium. Make it a 5 year plan to break ground, Shalala raised a billion plus in Momentum I, we could do it again.

The real problem is the amount of work it requires, but it can be done.

 

[SpikeUM]

For multiple reasons, most having to do with finances and real estate, we are not having our stadium, at least in our lifetimes. Get it over it. And frankly, for 6 games a year, the expense is simply not worth it.

 

[Consigliere]

For multiple reasons, most having to do with finances and real estate, we are not having our stadium, at least in our lifetimes. Get it over it. And frankly, for 6 games a year, the expense is simply not worth it.

But Tulane and Baylor can do it, duly noted.

Unfortunately we're fighting this HARD WORK.

 

[OMG618]

For multiple reasons, most having to do with finances and real estate, we are not having our stadium, at least in our lifetimes. Get it over it. And frankly, for 6 games a year, the expense is simply not worth it.

True hence why a partner is crucial (MLS). I remember there was once interest in the old Miami Arena site but unfortunately for any prospective buyers the land value has gone through the roof in the last 14 months. That site with metrorail and people-mover access would've been ideal for a 48k seat venue.

 

[Ispyin]

I have no idea what they have space wise/existing buildings, but the UM south campus which no one really goes to is on Coral reef drive, about 25 minute drive from campus, 14 miles or so. Sun life is 21 miles/30 min drive (yes, on a good day). Highly doubt UM would go through all that work for that distance/experience, even if they could. If its not real close, think they would say whats the point.

 

[BigPoppaCane]

MIAMI SHOULD BUY OUT FIU AND THEN HAVE AN ON CAMPUS STADIUM

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I hope the referendum fails miserably. Of all the billionaires on the planet, this city happens to get stuck with the one who brainstorms a $400 million patchwork of a bland facility in a terrible location. A true visionary would be on the floor in a seizure of laughter at the mere suggestion.

A dump with a roof is still a dump. Besides, we have decades worth of evidence that the stadium is little more than a glorified neutral site. I'm not aware of a single example of a patched stadium that miraculously transformed into a dungeon for the opposing team. When we left the Orange Bowl we voluntarily surrendered 2 to 2.5 points per game. I made that point to Donna Shalala and Paul Dee at the time. I wrote letters, as did my dad, borrowing my specifics. The Dolphins had 20 years worth of history at the Orange Bowl, and 20 years at the Robbie Bowl, when we made the decision to abandon the Orange Bowl. In the Orange Bowl the Dolphins averaged 24.3 points per game from 1966-1986, and gave up 16.8. That's a phenomenal +7.5 net, and keep in mind they began as an expansion team. In the Robbie Bowl, the Dolphins have lost more than 5 net points per home game. They average 21.5 from 1987 to 2012, while allowing 19.2.

Now, to be fair, the team was better overall during the early Shula era than they have been from 1987 forth. The best reference point is road games. The Dolphins averaged 20.5 in road games over the same 1966-1986 duration, and allowed 19.9. So they were a +.6 net. From 1987 to 2012 they've had a net of -2.2 in road games -- scoring 19.2 while allowing 21.4.

So the Dolphins were 2.8 points worse in road games during the two spans, but a ridiculous 5.2 points worse at home. That's where I got the 2 to 2.5 point estimate of leaving the Orange Bowl. I think it's fair, and we'd be idiotic to believe it doesn't apply to us, over the long term. I've been a handicapper for more than 25 years and normally keep these type of numbers to myself, secluded in my Excel spreadsheets. But frankly I tire of all the inane claims that home field doesn't matter, and the stadium gets just as loud...blah...blah...blah.

The edges in sports betting are so slight you have to study aspects like home field impact, otherwise you're just another clown making happy 40% subjective adjustments.

I'm willing to wait and gamble on a new venue, that a true visionary will show up.

 

[DeadPoets]

I hope the referendum fails miserably. Of all the billionaires on the planet, this city happens to get stuck with the one who brainstorms a $400 million patchwork of a bland facility in a terrible location. A true visionary would be on the floor in a seizure of laughter at the mere suggestion.

A dump with a roof is still a dump. Besides, we have decades worth of evidence that the stadium is little more than a glorified neutral site. I'm not aware of a single example of a patched stadium that miraculously transformed into a dungeon for the opposing team. When we left the Orange Bowl we voluntarily surrendered 2 to 2.5 points per game. I made that point to Donna Shalala and Paul Dee at the time. I wrote letters, as did my dad, borrowing my specifics. The Dolphins had 20 years worth of history at the Orange Bowl, and 20 years at the Robbie Bowl, when we made the decision to abandon the Orange Bowl. In the Orange Bowl the Dolphins averaged 24.3 points per game from 1966-1986, and gave up 16.8. That's a phenomenal +7.5 net, and keep in mind they began as an expansion team. In the Robbie Bowl, the Dolphins have lost more than 5 net points per home game. They average 21.5 from 1987 to 2012, while allowing 19.2.

Now, to be fair, the team was better overall during the early Shula era than they have been from 1987 forth. The best reference point is road games. The Dolphins averaged 20.5 in road games over the same 1966-1986 duration, and allowed 19.9. So they were a +.6 net. From 1987 to 2012 they've had a net of -2.2 in road games -- scoring 19.2 while allowing 21.4.

So the Dolphins were 2.8 points worse in road games during the two spans, but a ridiculous 5.2 points worse at home. That's where I got the 2 to 2.5 point estimate of leaving the Orange Bowl. I think it's fair, and we'd be idiotic to believe it doesn't apply to us, over the long term. I've been a handicapper for more than 25 years and normally keep these type of numbers to myself, secluded in my Excel spreadsheets. But frankly I tire of all the inane claims that home field doesn't matter, and the stadium gets just as loud...blah...blah...blah.

The edges in sports betting are so slight you have to study aspects like home field impact, otherwise you're just another clown making happy 40% subjective adjustments.

I'm willing to wait and gamble on a new venue, that a true visionary will show up.

This. My dad said the Canes in the 80s/90s at home, at night, in the Orange Bowl was worth 6 or 7 pts.

Only team with homefield advantage like that now is LSU.

 

[SevenNSeven]

Homefield advantage? Distance from the campus? Image issues? Doesn't matter.



The only thing that matters is money. Building a stadium is an investment. An investment in the future of your athletics department. Yes, it puts you hundreds of millions of dollars in the hole at the time, but over the long run, you will most likely start making money hand over fist. The big question is, would such a stadium eventually pay for itself?



Regardless, our brass has never felt it viable or important enough to make that significant investment and start raising funds. Renting a venue means that we don't keep all of the money from parking, concessions, and gate receipts, so, you're already looking at a reduction of income right there. Then you can take into consideration that renting in a large venue results in a constant surplus of tickets, keeping prices down. In fact, the one thing about JRS is that decent lower bowl seats are so few in number, that the University can inflate the prices on those seats to counteract this a little. Imagine this with a whole stadium. Imagine how much more money they could have donated to the Hurricane Club and how many more season ticket sales they would garner if we were filling a rowdy 52,000 seat stadium instead of a half-empty 72,000 seat one. Also, generating less money off home game receipts also means that you have a harder time paying the going rate to even put teams on your schedule. Sad as it is, we could never afford to do what lots of other institutions do, and schedule patsies to play at home for your non conference games. Instead, you see us playing games @FAU, @USF, @Toledo, etc..



Anyway, those are just some of the monetary issues. Another elephant in the room is that, due to JRS now being our only option as far as venue goes, there's nothing to stop them from fleecing us in 20 years when our lease expires. That's not saying they will, just that they will have the option.



I'm sure there are great reasons why the school hasn't built their own football facility. I've heard dozens upon dozens. The problem is, most of them rely upon the acceptance that it would be impossible to do so. Such acceptance not only is horribly defeatist in attitude, but holds very little basis in reality. Would building a stadium be easy or cheap? Nope. But impossible? The university would just have to believe in the viability of making such an investment in the future of the program.

 

[Consigliere]

Homefield advantage? Distance from the campus? Image issues? Doesn't matter.



The only thing that matters is money. Building a stadium is an investment. An investment in the future of your athletics department. Yes, it puts you hundreds of millions of dollars in the hole at the time, but over the long run, you will most likely start making money hand over fist. The big question is, would such a stadium eventually pay for itself?



Regardless, our brass has never felt it viable or important enough to make that significant investment and start raising funds. Renting a venue means that we don't keep all of the money from parking, concessions, and gate receipts, so, you're already looking at a reduction of income right there. Then you can take into consideration that renting in a large venue results in a constant surplus of tickets, keeping prices down. In fact, the one thing about JRS is that decent lower bowl seats are so few in number, that the University can inflate the prices on those seats to counteract this a little. Imagine this with a whole stadium. Imagine how much more money they could have donated to the Hurricane Club and how many more season ticket sales they would garner if we were filling a rowdy 52,000 seat stadium instead of a half-empty 72,000 seat one. Also, generating less money off home game receipts also means that you have a harder time paying the going rate to even put teams on your schedule. Sad as it is, we could never afford to do what lots of other institutions do, and schedule patsies to play at home for your non conference games. Instead, you see us playing games @FAU, @USF, @Toledo, etc..



Anyway, those are just some of the monetary issues. Another elephant in the room is that, due to JRS now being our only option as far as venue goes, there's nothing to stop them from fleecing us in 20 years when our lease expires. That's not saying they will, just that they will have the option.



I'm sure there are great reasons why the school hasn't built their own football facility. I've heard dozens upon dozens. The problem is, most of them rely upon the acceptance that it would be impossible to do so. Such acceptance not only is horribly defeatist in attitude, but holds very little basis in reality. Would building a stadium be easy or cheap? Nope. But impossible? The university would just have to believe in the viability of making such an investment in the future of the program.

This is an amazing post and the utter truth of the matter.

The last bolded part is the key, I just think it is really hard (not impossible) and requires the right people WITH DRIVE to handle this. The reason I Don't care for our new AD is because there is no plan, I don't care if takes 5 years to get off the ground (brick by brick), we need something that shows commitment.