Stephen Morris vs Florida St

[Consigliere]

But the offense was very good on 3rd downs against:

Sav. St (6-9) lol, USF (7-14), GT (3-6), WF ( 6-13)

The stats are LITERALLY wrong. This is not an argument about merit just about the ACTUAL stats. Morris does NOT get credit if he is not in the game so here are his ACTUAL STATS. ACTUAL STATS ACTUAL STATS ACTUAL STATS.

Savannah State:

Morris threw 4 balls against Savannah State and none were on 3rd down.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=332642390

Cumulative Stats: 0 for 0 on 3rd Down

USF

Miami (FL) at 9:22 (1st Quarter)

1 for 1 on Third Down (1 for 1 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 4:23 (1st Quarter)

2 for 2 on Third Down (3 for 3 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 14:02 (2nd Quarter)

1 for 1 on Third Down (3 for 3 Overall)

http://espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=332710058&period=0

Cumulative Stats: 3 for 3 on 3rd Down

GT

Miami (FL) at 4:29 (2nd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down

Miami (FL) at 15:00 (3rd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (0 for 2 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 11:43 (3rd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (0 for 3 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 3:49 (3rd Quarter)

1 for 1 on 3rd Down (1 for 4 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 10:38 (4th Quarter)

1 for 1 on 3rd Down (2 for 5 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 5:15 (4th Quarter)

1 for 1 on 3rd Down (3 for 6 Overall)

http://espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=332782390&period=0

Cumulative Stats: 6 for 9 on 3rd Down

Wake Forest

Miami (FL) at 6:26 (1st Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down

Miami (FL) at 14:18 (2nd Quarter)

3 of 4 on 3rd Down (3 for 5 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 7:09 (2nd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (3 for 6 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 2:38 (2nd Quarter)

1 for 1 on 3rd Down (4 for 7 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 15:00 (3rd Quarter)

1 for 2 on 3rd Down (5 for 9 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 9:32 (3rd Quarter)

1 for 2 on 3rd Down (6 for 11 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 1:12 (3rd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (6 for 12 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 12:21 (4th Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (6 for 13 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 4:02 (4th Quarter)

1 for 1 on 3rd Down (7 for 14 Overall)

http://espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=332992390

Cumulative Stats: 13 for 23 on 3rd Down*

*Please note of the above, 7-9 of the conversions were on runs or a penalty and not directly attributed to Morris.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the season Morris's 3rd Down Percentage is under 40% or 29 for 73.

UNC (8 for 18)

UF (1 for 11)

FSU (4 for 12)

FAU (3 for 9)

**See Below because he didn't play the whole game**


Miami (FL) at 13:45 (1st Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down

Miami (FL) at 9:35 (1st Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd down (0 for 2 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 3:46 (1st Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd down (0 for 3 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 14:01 (2nd Quarter)

1 for 1 on 3rd Down (1 for 4 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 8:30 (2nd Quarter)

1 for 2 on 3rd Down (2 for 5 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 4:12 (2nd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (2 for 6 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 15:00 (3rd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (2 for 7 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 10:30 (3rd Quarter)

1 for 2 on 3rd Down (3 for 8 Overall)

Miami (FL) at 3:35 (3rd Quarter)

0 for 1 on 3rd Down (3 for 9 Overall)





You need to stop making up stats FYI, just bring a source to make your argument. It is not possible to argue when your stats are actually false.

 

[DeadPoets]

One complaint I have is the route combinations don't have a whole lotta creativity to them.
And the times we call out & up routes (like on Stacey's deep ball that was INT'd)... our WRs aren't selling it hard enough. Stacey was in and out of his break too quickly... let the DB bite on the first move! (ala Andre Johnson vs Colts last Sunday)

 

[zone3cane]

But the offense was very good on 3rd downs against:

Sav. St (6-9) lol, USF (7-14), GT (3-6), WF ( 6-13)

Lol Consigliere is full of **** like always.... what r u talking about?

i said the offense on 3rd downs as whole, more then just Stephen Morris can convert on 3rd downs. wtf is u saying?

If i'm making it up click on this link, and go through each game and show me where i'm making up the 3rd down conversion numbers for the offense.

Miami Hurricanes 2013 Schedule
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2390/miami-fl-hurricanes

lol this clown is so bent on his hatred for Stephen Morris that he wants the offense to fail just to prove a point... smh pathetic.

I dont have to make the font of my post xtra large b/c it's the truth, ur rustled b/c the offenses 3rd down conversion numbers arent as bad as you and the rest of the parrots want everyone to believe, wow the offense is still a part of this team. smh

 

[zone3cane]

One complaint I have is the route combinations don't have a whole lotta creativity to them.
And the times we call out & up routes (like on Stacey's deep ball that was INT'd)... our WRs aren't selling it hard enough. Stacey was in and out of his break too quickly... let the DB bite on the first move! (ala Andre Johnson vs Colts last Sunday)

Stacy is a freshman, if Rashawn Scott or Phillip Dorsett was on the field, more plays wouldve been made. Allen Hurns was balling out there, he just needed more veteran help at WR.... Stacy was too young for the moment especially as the #2 guy on the field at receiver.

He was still open on that 1st interception though, if Morris wouldve put more under it, it couldve been a TD if Coley caught it.... still shouldve turned into a DB on that play and prevented the INT but either way it was a bad turnover.

 

[Consigliere]

Zone,

Let's start again. Let's see if we can find some common ground.

Let me get this out of the way, I am a big fan of Morris. I like him and I like what he can do for us, I want him to succeed here because we succeed. Before the season I sang his praises and believed in him, now things are different, especially since ACC play. I think one reason Morris gets a lot of criticism (he deserves it too) is because he is the starting QB. He is where people will look to blame for the offense, it goes without saying when you play that position.

As for the offense, nobody cares about how we do against FCS or D11 teams so please remove Savannah State or FAU from any equation on offense. Just like nobody cares how the defense does against these teams.

Let's review our last 4 games aka Conference Play on Offense:

- 96 Total Points
- 10 Offensive Turnovers on 47 Total Drives
- 21 for 49 on 3rd Down

Are you satisfied with this result? Do you think the above is going to get us anywhere?

I would be happy to discuss the defense after but I just want to know your thoughts on the above.

FYI posting a general link is not evidence. That is nothing, that is the equivalent of posting www.google.com

 

[zone3cane]

- VT has scored 73 points in 4 conference games played and 100 in 5.... the total points scored isnt the problem.

- As far as turnovers go..... it's a skewed statistic, 8 of those 10 turnovers came in 2 games, GT and UNC. That wasnt the reason why Wake Forest scored 21 on Miami and why FSU blew us out in the 3rd and 4th quarter. (11-15 3rd down defense smh terrible)

- The 3rd down conversion numbers are skewed b/c like i said, in the FSU game Miami's offense was close to 50% on conversions until the game got out of hand in the 3rd b/c of the defense. Even so 21 for 49 (43%) isnt bad at all, compared to the defense giving up 51% on 3rd and 4th down conversions combined in that same 4 game span.

But to answer ur questions.... No, i'm not "satisfied" with that but i understand that Miami's offense is playing w/o 2 of its best WR's (scott and dorsett) and it's QB has been battling through an obviously serious ankle issue that's Achilles related.

What's the defenses excuse? talent? yeah right, Miami's defense is solid on 1st and 2nd downs but chokes on 3rd and 4th downs, why is that? regardless I am more understanding of the offenses inconsistencies b/c of those injury issues on top of the fact that this is James Coley's 1st year on the job.....

While D'nofrio has been here since Al Golden yet you all make more excuses for why the defense chokes on "money downs" even though their best players are healthy (aside from Deon Bush) while you put all the blame, defensive and offense on the shoulders of Stephen Morris...... even when the offense has been improving, however so slightly, on 3rd down situations and turnovers.

 

[Consigliere]

- VT has scored 73 points in 4 conference games played and 100 in 5.... the total points scored isnt the problem.

- As far as turnovers go..... it's a skewed statistic, 8 of those 10 turnovers came in 2 games, GT and UNC. That wasnt the reason why Wake Forest scored 21 on Miami and why FSU blew us out in the 3rd and 4th quarter. (11-15 3rd down defense smh terrible)

- The 3rd down conversion numbers are skewed b/c like i said, in the FSU game Miami's offense was close to 50% on conversions until the game got out of hand in the 3rd b/c of the defense. Even so 21 for 49 (43%) isnt bad at all, compared to the defense giving up 51% on 3rd and 4th down conversions combined in that same 4 game span.

But to answer ur questions.... No, i'm not "satisfied" with that but i understand that Miami's offense is playing w/o 2 of its best WR's (scott and dorsett) and it's QB has been battling through an obviously serious ankle issue that's Achilles related.

What's the defenses excuse? talent? yeah right, Miami's defense is solid on 1st and 2nd downs but chokes on 3rd and 4th downs, why is that? regardless I am more understanding of the offenses inconsistencies b/c of those injury issues on top of the fact that this is James Coley's 1st year on the job.....

While D'nofrio has been here since Al Golden yet you all make more excuses for why the defense chokes on "money downs" even though their best players are healthy (aside from Deon Bush) while you put all the blame, defensive and offense on the shoulders of Stephen Morris...... even when the offense has been improving, however so slightly, on 3rd down situations and turnovers.

A few things:

1. I am just talking about the Offense. We can talk about the Defense later. VT should be of no relevance to this conversation as we're talking about Miami's offense. Just bump a thread about defense to discuss defense but for now, let's talk offense.

2. The 3rd Down % is not skewed, those are the stats. You can manipulate them anyway you want. For argument sake let's say you are right....it doesn't matter. Nobody cares about the 3rd down conversion percentage. We care about points, we care about scoring, we care about NOT turning the ball over.

Let me put it this way, if the offense was scoring more points I would not give two SHlTs about 3rd down completion percentage because we're scoring more points.

The offense will be judged on how many points they score. The offense is not scoring enough points. The offense is turning it over 21% of the time in ACC play. That is my point. The offense has scored 96 total points in ACC play, that is not enough.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

ummm I think 3rd down conversion and scoring is highly correlated.
Also, converting on 3rd downs keeps our defense off the field longer.

So our pathetic 3rd down conversion rate is precisely the problem with our team. Improve it and so will everything else.

 

[Consigliere]

ummm I think 3rd down conversion and scoring is highly correlated.
Also, converting on 3rd downs keeps our defense off the field longer.

So our pathetic 3rd down conversion rate is precisely the problem with our team. Improve it and so will everything else.

No one is saying they are not correlated, we get it. Just like you drive (total yards) down the field, your more likely to score points.

^ Yards doesn't guaranty points
^ 3rd Down % doesn't guaranty points

The point is the offense needs to score more points. I don't care how they do it, I don't care if the 3rd Down Completion % goes down as long as points being scored goes up.

In ACC play, we're averaging (actual offensive points) 24 points per game. I want 30 (actual offensive points) points per game. It will be difficult without Duke but it can be done.

Against UNC, we scored 20 (actual offensive points, remember one touchdown was pick 6). We threw 4 interceptions and deep in their territory we settled for FGs instead of touchdowns. We also missed 1 FG.

So let's review, to get to 30 points. We need to do the following:

1. Limit TOs (we had 4)
2. Hit FGs (we missed 1)
3. TD > FGs (We had the ball 1st and Goal at the UNC 1 and 1st and Goal and the UNC 7)

Even with all those turnovers against UNC, if we get that ball in the endzone on either of those drives the game is completely different.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

ummm I think 3rd down conversion and scoring is highly correlated.
Also, converting on 3rd downs keeps our defense off the field longer.

So our pathetic 3rd down conversion rate is precisely the problem with our team. Improve it and so will everything else.

No one is saying they are not correlated, we get it. Just like you drive (total yards) down the field, your more likely to score points.

^ Yards doesn't guaranty points
^ 3rd Down % doesn't guaranty points

The point is the offense needs to score more points. I don't care how they do it, I don't care if the 3rd Down Completion % goes down as long as points being scored goes up.

In ACC play, we're averaging (actual offensive points) 24 points per game. I want 30 (actual offensive points) points per game. It will be difficult without Duke but it can be done.

Against UNC, we scored 20 (actual offensive points, remember one touchdown was pick 6). We threw 4 interceptions and deep in their territory we settled for FGs instead of touchdowns. We also missed 1 FG.

So let's review, to get to 30 points. We need to do the following:

1. Limit TOs (we had 4)
2. Hit FGs (we missed 1)
3. TD > FGs (We had the ball 1st and Goal at the UNC 1 and 1st and Goal and the UNC 7)

Even with all those turnovers against UNC, if we get that ball in the endzone on either of those drives the game is completely different.

You mention not turning the ball over but what you do think not converting on 3rd down is? Turning the ball over to the other team.
We need to play ball control offense and to do that you need to convert on the 3rd downs. Of course we still need to score which we will with greater propensity IF we convert more on 3rd downs.

 

[Consigliere]

You mention not turning the ball over but what you do think not converting on 3rd down is? Turning the ball over to the other team.
We need to play ball control offense and to do that you need to convert on the 3rd downs. Of course we still need to score which we will with greater propensity IF we convert more on 3rd downs.

Don't make this difficult.

A Turnover can happen on 2nd down or 1st down or ANY DOWN. The not converting on 3rd down stat means that we don't convert on 3rd down for any reason (stopped short, incomplete pass, turnover etc.).

No one is saying DON'T CONVERT on 3rd down, I am saying that the offense just needs to score points. I don't care how they do it so please don't make this difficult, just keep it simple.

 

[stat1124]

Stop with this rhetoric. Just stop. OFFENSE, DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS lost this game! The offense disappeared in the second half. I just finished editing the Canes FlashForward where I have to watch each play at least twice while making edits. Half of your umm concessions that your giving to the offense is purely subjective based off of your perception and feelings. That's fine, their your opinion of the events. However, please stop stating them as fact because they most certainly are not that definitive to be fact. The offense could not sustain drives, Morris was erratic at times, Walford dropped 2 or 3 first downs that I remember, Coley missed on a TD that he should have had but it was not the best thrown ball. Big players makes those big plays. Receivers as a whole dropped 6 key passes that killed drives. Morris two INTs were catastrophic for our momentum. One was completely ill advised and poorly thrown across the middle to Walford. All on him. Second one was definitely underthrown by him to Coley. Putting that on Coley is ridiculous. Just remember that simple concept of causality. Incase you are not aware, a simple definition is the consequence is in direct relation to the cause. Morris threw late and short. It was picked off. Coley doesn't have to become a defensive back if the ball is on time and out in front of him. So one can not argue the INT being on Coley without first accepting the fact that Morris was at fault for the bad pass in the first place. On Morris as well.

FSU Defense did a whole lot of delayed blitz and stunts that caught our Oline off guard. So you can also stop with slamming Wheeler for the blown sack, cuz that was just a very good stun called against the right pass protect that left gaps open. Wheeler was in no mans land and center didn't help chip the stunting DE or DT (can't remember which one got thru). On defense, we again could not get off the field on third downs. Our LB and DBs took so many bad angles on pass coverage and tackling that I was literally dumbfounded in the fourth. We tackled so poorly in the 2nd half. We had man coverage called on the screen pass, and NOONE picked up the back releasing into the flat.

There is plenty of blame to go around to every facet of the game. Offense did not get it done. Defense could not make a stop. Special Teams could not make a field goal. O'Donnell and Coley were the only bright points on special teams. Maybe U can throw Artie in there for his effort. Coaches were out coached. Against a legitimate Top 3 team like this, it gave us an honest barometer of where we are as a program right now. We still have alot of work to do. Either way, noone can minimize the offense inability to put scoring drives together. That is the offense sole reason for existing. They could not score at all without the help of a turn over. PERIOD. FACT. Doesn't matter what they did in the 1st half vs. the 2nd half. Last time I checked, a game is the combination of both. Defense, well they just aren't ready to match up against a prolific offense with all that talent yet. It just is what it is.

Welcome back to reality.

Morris goes 4 of 12 on 3rd downs vs FSU = Somehow our defenses fault

Like I said before, Morris and the offense went 50% on 3rd/4th down conversions going into the 2nd half.

the 1st failed 3rd down in the 2nd half was a sack b/c Wheeler was at guard.... that's not on Morris. regardless **** like that happens and u have to move on and do ur job. Offense isnt going to be perfect on 3rd downs they had their best game from that stand point.

After that, The defense lost the game from that point on. the defense couldnt even get close to what the offense was doing on 3rd downs allowing 11-15 conversions. smh thats pathetic.

simple as that.... the other failed 3rd down attempts on offense where after Miami was down by 21-24 points in the game it had nothing to do w/ the score or the outcome. The defense was majority at fault.

The defense isnt great or good and it makes the offense look worse.

 

[zone3cane]

Stephen Morris missed an opportunity to hit Coley on that 1st interception but it was Stacy Coley's fault that the ball was intercepted.... i'm blaming both. Regardless that didnt effect the momentum anymore then the defense getting scored on again after Miami punted the ball when their 1st drive stalled before that interception.

If the defense did their jobs, which i'm blaming D'nofrio for, then that 1st interception wouldnt have been so "critical", just like the 2 interceptions Winston threw werent critical to FSU.

The 2nd interception had nothing to do w/ the outcome, the score was 35-14 by that time b/c the defense continued to suck on 3rd downs and got scored on, and 2 plays before that Stephen Morris tried to hit Stacy again on what wouldve been a TD, and Coley missing that catch was 100% on him, had nothing to do w/ the pass at all.

The defense wasnt ready but played a good game on 1st and 2nd down is giving excuses.... the offense doesnt have that benefit of the doubt on this board is all i'm sayin.

 

[stat1124]

There is no BUT. Morris threw a bad pass that resulted in that pick period. Anything else is MOOT. It didn't effect the momentum?!? A sure touchdown turned into a INT doesn't effect the momentum. Now ur just making sh*t up. Fact is both that INT and the Defense hurt momentum. BOTH EQUALLY jacked our chances of winning. It isn't one vs the other...they both did not do enough to win. I really isn't as complicated as your making it. Won't even argue the TD drop by Coley cuz its pretty much irrelevant to the whole purpose of your point of blaming the defense more than the offense. Again both are equally to blame for the turn out.

Stephen Morris missed an opportunity to hit Coley on that 1st interception but it was Stacy Coley's fault that the ball was intercepted.... i'm blaming both. Regardless that didnt effect the momentum anymore then the defense getting scored on again after Miami punted the ball when their 1st drive stalled before that interception.

If the defense did their jobs, which i'm blaming D'nofrio for, then that 1st interception wouldnt have been so "critical", just like the 2 interceptions Winston threw werent critical to FSU.

The 2nd interception had nothing to do w/ the outcome, the score was 35-14 by that time b/c the defense continued to suck on 3rd downs and got scored on, and 2 plays before that Stephen Morris tried to hit Stacy again on what wouldve been a TD, and Coley missing that catch was 100% on him, had nothing to do w/ the pass at all.

The defense wasnt ready but played a good game on 1st and 2nd down is giving excuses.... the offense doesnt have that benefit of the doubt on this board is all i'm sayin.

 

[zone3cane]

There is no BUT. Morris threw a bad pass that resulted in that pick period. Anything else is MOOT. It didn't effect the momentum?!? A sure touchdown turned into a INT doesn't effect the momentum. Now ur just making sh*t up. Fact is both that INT and the Defense hurt momentum. BOTH EQUALLY jacked our chances of winning. It isn't one vs the other...they both did not do enough to win. I really isn't as complicated as your making it. Won't even argue the TD drop by Coley cuz its pretty much irrelevant to the whole purpose of your point of blaming the defense more than the offense. Again both are equally to blame for the turn out.

Stephen Morris missed an opportunity to hit Coley on that 1st interception but it was Stacy Coley's fault that the ball was intercepted.... i'm blaming both. Regardless that didnt effect the momentum anymore then the defense getting scored on again after Miami punted the ball when their 1st drive stalled before that interception.

If the defense did their jobs, which i'm blaming D'nofrio for, then that 1st interception wouldnt have been so "critical", just like the 2 interceptions Winston threw werent critical to FSU.

The 2nd interception had nothing to do w/ the outcome, the score was 35-14 by that time b/c the defense continued to suck on 3rd downs and got scored on, and 2 plays before that Stephen Morris tried to hit Stacy again on what wouldve been a TD, and Coley missing that catch was 100% on him, had nothing to do w/ the pass at all.

The defense wasnt ready but played a good game on 1st and 2nd down is giving excuses.... the offense doesnt have that benefit of the doubt on this board is all i'm sayin.

as far the whole offense vs the defense argument.... Stacy Coley not preventing the interception effects momentum, however the score 28-14. The defense had already shot any momentum going into the 2nd half. Get a stop for once, there is no way it was equal.... Stacy made mistakes, Morris made mistakes, Walford made mistakes, the O-line made mistakes against an elite defense, but still they had the better game then UM's defense.

That cant be argued, the score jumping from 21-14 to start the 2nd half to 35-14 in a matter of 2 drives by FSU, w/ only 1 offensive turnover in between is a defensive problem.

 

[stat1124]

That's a cyclical argument because the same thing can be said that the offense not scoring in the 2nd half ALSO lead to the 35-14 in a matter of two drives. Instead of 35-21 or 35-28. Problem is neither viewpoint is wrong. The problem is both view points are right. Therein is my point that both sides equally failed. So we shall agree to disagree on this subject then, no problem and no respect loss.

as far the whole offense vs the defense argument.... Stacy Coley not preventing the interception effects momentum, however the score 28-14. The defense had already shot any momentum going into the 2nd half. Get a stop for once, there is no way it was equal.... Stacy made mistakes, Morris made mistakes, Walford made mistakes, the O-line made mistakes against an elite defense, but still they had the better game then UM's defense.

That cant be argued, the score jumping from 21-14 to start the 2nd half to 35-14 in a matter of 2 drives by FSU, w/ only 1 offensive turnover in between is a defensive problem.

 

[zone3cane]

That's a cyclical argument because the same thing can be said that the offense not scoring in the 2nd half ALSO lead to the 35-14 in a matter of two drives. Instead of 35-21 or 35-28. Problem is neither viewpoint is wrong. The problem is both view points are right. Therein is my point that both sides equally failed. So we shall agree to disagree on this subject then, no problem and no respect loss.

as far the whole offense vs the defense argument.... Stacy Coley not preventing the interception effects momentum, however the score 28-14. The defense had already shot any momentum going into the 2nd half. Get a stop for once, there is no way it was equal.... Stacy made mistakes, Morris made mistakes, Walford made mistakes, the O-line made mistakes against an elite defense, but still they had the better game then UM's defense.

That cant be argued, the score jumping from 21-14 to start the 2nd half to 35-14 in a matter of 2 drives by FSU, w/ only 1 offensive turnover in between is a defensive problem.

I can agree w/ that