Spring Thoughts (Defense)

[rok]

To keep DJ and Garvin in the fold I wouldn't be surprised to see them in speed rush packages (3rd and long). Kick DJ and Chad inside and Joe and Garvin outside.

Yep

I want to see McIntosh and Norton rumbling off the field on every 3rd down.

 

[LuCane]

Probably right in terms of pure numbers. If Patchan and DJ can contribute, that's seven guys.

What I like about DT is the quality of the top four. Those are four starters.

I think you find a lot of the same at DE, if not better than the scenario at DT. The top 4 DTs are not perfectly complementary. You have only one true 1Tech in the group. Moten will play there and be fine, but he's not optimal and there's a dropoff between what Norton provides as a 1Tech and what Moten can give us in that role. Mcintosh can probably give us some there as well. Is it absolutely vital in our scheme? Well, not as much as other schemes. It's still nice to have someone who can command, sustain and even beat a C/G double team against the run. Willis is a 3Tech. Behind them, you have Pat Bethel as someone growing into a 3Tech.

On the other hand, at DE you have a bunch of interchangeable parts. Is there zero dropoff between the Chad Thomas/Joe Jackson tandem and the rest? Probably not. However, if one or both go down, I have virtually no concerns about Trent Harris making plays. He's proven he will. I have no concerns about Demetrius Jackson playing on either side of the line. I have no concerns about a true Frosh like Garvin offering an edge rush. DJ Johnson is not even on campus and some argue he'll be better than Garvin, though on the other side of the line. You toss in Scott Patchan potentially being healthy and you have an entire ****nal of skill sets to mix and match. It's an unbelievable depth chart.

I give the DEs the nod and not because of numbers. I think they're arguably the deepest group in the country.

DE is based off numbers right now. Djack hasnt really did much, patchan hasnt ever really played, garvin is a true freshmen and the same for dj.

According to you, Demetrius Jackson hasn't done much. However, he started 6 games for us last year, adeptly played both sides of the line when we needed it most, had 6.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks and 4 PBUs. The other backup, Trent Harris, has 18 career starts, had 9.5 TFLs last year, 3 sacks, a FF and 2 PBUs.
Behind them, we have Garvin, DJ Johnson and the oft-injured Patchan.

At DT, Anthony Moten had 6 total tackles, .5 TFLs (3 TFLs and 23 total tackles in his entire career despite getting 4 starts while in Golden's system).
The other backup DT, Gerald Willis, gave us 19 total tackles, 5.5 TFLs, 1.5 sacks, and 2 PBUs.
Behind them, we have Bethel, Martin and Fines.

What about that tells you DE has more depth because of mere quantity?

I didnt say anything about harris. Jackson hasnt really did anything. 3 of those tfls came vs famu and both of his sacks came vs famu. He started six games and played in 11. so where was he at in those games? The last 5 games he had 1 tackle.

You didn't have to say anything specific to Harris. You said "DEs is based off numbers (quantity) now." You invoked him. Sorry, 252, but your logic is flawed and unsupported by evidence. Again, according to you, D-Jax hasn't done anything, but we're essentially comparing him to Moten, who has produced next to nothing and certainly a world's away from the player (Norton) he backs up.

D-Jax has actually produced and flashed more in backing up Chad Thomas and playing the other side of the line than Moten (a player I've had high hopes for and think can still turn it on) has done...ever.

Moving the discussion to "where" D-Jax got his stats is a strawman argument. Your analysis doesn't even include where the others got their production. We're talking about DE depth vs DT depth and comparing how the backups at each stack up. I really don't even see how this is an argument unless we're talking about pro prospects, which we were not -we were talking about depth for the University of Miami 2017 team.

 

[LuCane]

Any thought of moving Trent to LB with the depth at DE or has that ship sailed?

Although unappreciated I guess because he doesn't flash great measurables or project to be a high pick, he is well-built for what we do at WDE and actually produces at a high level. I absolutely love Garvin's potential, but let the kid play a specialist role for now while we try to win important games for the first time in a decade. If he outgrows that role and becomes dominant early on, better for everyone.

 

[LuCane]

If you have good DTs, you win ball games. Extremely excited to watch that group this season.

Wonderful news on M. Young. I was in the camp that thought we were thin at CB, and I didn't love what I saw from Young last year. While I still think we are thin, Young locking down one of the CB spots is great news.

And for all the hype we give him, I still feel that Shaq is UNDERrated. What a luxury to have a MLB with that kind of head on his shoulders. A true captain of the defense. Love that kid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You and I debated this a bit last season and, until it shows up on gameday, it's actually still unsettled. I don't remember the reasons you gave for not liking what you saw, but always respect your opinion. What was it about his game you didn't like?

He just doesn't pass the eyeball test. Underdeveloped, skinny. I remember him being dragged a few times.

Someone else mentioned he had a nose for the ball, but I didn't see that. He didn't jump off the screen as a playmaker, which is why I am so happy to hear he played like one this spring.

I probably took that 4 games losing streak out on Young and Redwine a little too much. We couldn't stop anyone though. That is when I soured on both of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Got it. To me, he flashes nearly everything I look for in a corner, sans size. He looks like a Nickel, but plays like Brent Grimes outside. He has acceleration, great feet, change of direction, and is aggressive. Most of all, he finds and plays the ball - something we've generally lacked. I've said this story a couple times on here already: I've been high on him since last year's fall practices where I watched his feistiness allow him to break up a pass intended for Njoku and stand over him in practice. That sorta "I don't realize I'm 5' 9" 180 attitude" goes a long way - especially in college. We'll see if he keeps improving.

 

[grover]

Thanks, D$. I'm looking forward to a big jump in turnovers, especially interceptions. Last year the secondary covered for a good number of miscues upfront, especially in the first half of the season, so wasn't able to be as aggressive. With that front 7 coalescing into a monster unit, they'll force the QBs to make quicker throws while on the run more often. Will be fun to watch.

 

[randolph herndon]

Over article good but---

"D.J. just ran 11.22 100M and he may get faster before he�s done. For perspective, Dalvin Cook�s personal record was 11.18."

Go check the alumni records on Mile Split--Athletic net you quoted from did not have his 2014 times listed

Dalvin Cook---- 2014----Personal Records
100m - 10.92
200m - 22.58
Dalvin Cook - Stats



"Deepest group on the team. Coach Kool can replace Kendrick Norton and Richard McIntosh with Anthony Moten and Gerald Willis without missing a beat." (a little over enthusiastic here?)

Moten and Willis are on par with Norton and McIntosh???????

You are correct about the speed of Cook but even at 10.92 he is considerable smaller that Johnson which makes Johnson's speed that more impressive.
Regarding Moten and Willis they will be drafted but not as high as Norton and McIntosh who look like impact players at the next level.

I gave you a up vote as I cannot understand why people down voted you especially for the facts about the track speed. and the people gave no explanation for the down votes...maybe its that time of the month for those people.

 

[252cane]

I think you find a lot of the same at DE, if not better than the scenario at DT. The top 4 DTs are not perfectly complementary. You have only one true 1Tech in the group. Moten will play there and be fine, but he's not optimal and there's a dropoff between what Norton provides as a 1Tech and what Moten can give us in that role. Mcintosh can probably give us some there as well. Is it absolutely vital in our scheme? Well, not as much as other schemes. It's still nice to have someone who can command, sustain and even beat a C/G double team against the run. Willis is a 3Tech. Behind them, you have Pat Bethel as someone growing into a 3Tech.

On the other hand, at DE you have a bunch of interchangeable parts. Is there zero dropoff between the Chad Thomas/Joe Jackson tandem and the rest? Probably not. However, if one or both go down, I have virtually no concerns about Trent Harris making plays. He's proven he will. I have no concerns about Demetrius Jackson playing on either side of the line. I have no concerns about a true Frosh like Garvin offering an edge rush. DJ Johnson is not even on campus and some argue he'll be better than Garvin, though on the other side of the line. You toss in Scott Patchan potentially being healthy and you have an entire ****nal of skill sets to mix and match. It's an unbelievable depth chart.

I give the DEs the nod and not because of numbers. I think they're arguably the deepest group in the country.

DE is based off numbers right now. Djack hasnt really did much, patchan hasnt ever really played, garvin is a true freshmen and the same for dj.

According to you, Demetrius Jackson hasn't done much. However, he started 6 games for us last year, adeptly played both sides of the line when we needed it most, had 6.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks and 4 PBUs. The other backup, Trent Harris, has 18 career starts, had 9.5 TFLs last year, 3 sacks, a FF and 2 PBUs.
Behind them, we have Garvin, DJ Johnson and the oft-injured Patchan.

At DT, Anthony Moten had 6 total tackles, .5 TFLs (3 TFLs and 23 total tackles in his entire career despite getting 4 starts while in Golden's system).
The other backup DT, Gerald Willis, gave us 19 total tackles, 5.5 TFLs, 1.5 sacks, and 2 PBUs.
Behind them, we have Bethel, Martin and Fines.

What about that tells you DE has more depth because of mere quantity?

I didnt say anything about harris. Jackson hasnt really did anything. 3 of those tfls came vs famu and both of his sacks came vs famu. He started six games and played in 11. so where was he at in those games? The last 5 games he had 1 tackle.

You didn't have to say anything specific to Harris. You said "DEs is based off numbers (quantity) now." You invoked him. Sorry, 252, but your logic is flawed and unsupported by evidence. Again, according to you, D-Jax hasn't done anything, but we're essentially comparing him to Moten, who has produced next to nothing and certainly a world's away from the player (Norton) he backs up.

D-Jax has actually produced and flashed more in backing up Chad Thomas and playing the other side of the line than Moten (a player I've had high hopes for and think can still turn it on) has done...ever.

Moving the discussion to "where" D-Jax got his stats is a strawman argument. Your analysis doesn't even include where the others got their production. We're talking about DE depth vs DT depth and comparing how the backups at each stack up. I really don't even see how this is an argument unless we're talking about pro prospects, which we were not -we were talking about depth for the University of Miami 2017 team.

You are literally making no sense. Jackson hasnt produced anything. Bringing up how he only got his stats in one game is very relevant. Again the 2nd half of the season he got 1 tackle. Thats not showing flashes. The other guys like chad, joe, harris actually played well vs real competition while jackson disappeared.

 

[LuCane]

DE is based off numbers right now. Djack hasnt really did much, patchan hasnt ever really played, garvin is a true freshmen and the same for dj.

According to you, Demetrius Jackson hasn't done much. However, he started 6 games for us last year, adeptly played both sides of the line when we needed it most, had 6.5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks and 4 PBUs. The other backup, Trent Harris, has 18 career starts, had 9.5 TFLs last year, 3 sacks, a FF and 2 PBUs.
Behind them, we have Garvin, DJ Johnson and the oft-injured Patchan.

At DT, Anthony Moten had 6 total tackles, .5 TFLs (3 TFLs and 23 total tackles in his entire career despite getting 4 starts while in Golden's system).
The other backup DT, Gerald Willis, gave us 19 total tackles, 5.5 TFLs, 1.5 sacks, and 2 PBUs.
Behind them, we have Bethel, Martin and Fines.

What about that tells you DE has more depth because of mere quantity?

I didnt say anything about harris. Jackson hasnt really did anything. 3 of those tfls came vs famu and both of his sacks came vs famu. He started six games and played in 11. so where was he at in those games? The last 5 games he had 1 tackle.

You didn't have to say anything specific to Harris. You said "DEs is based off numbers (quantity) now." You invoked him. Sorry, 252, but your logic is flawed and unsupported by evidence. Again, according to you, D-Jax hasn't done anything, but we're essentially comparing him to Moten, who has produced next to nothing and certainly a world's away from the player (Norton) he backs up.

D-Jax has actually produced and flashed more in backing up Chad Thomas and playing the other side of the line than Moten (a player I've had high hopes for and think can still turn it on) has done...ever.

Moving the discussion to "where" D-Jax got his stats is a strawman argument. Your analysis doesn't even include where the others got their production. We're talking about DE depth vs DT depth and comparing how the backups at each stack up. I really don't even see how this is an argument unless we're talking about pro prospects, which we were not -we were talking about depth for the University of Miami 2017 team.

You are literally making no sense. Jackson hasnt produced anything. Bringing up how he only got his stats in one game is very relevant. Again the 2nd half of the season he got 1 tackle. Thats not showing flashes. The other guys like chad, joe, harris actually played well vs real competition while jackson disappeared.

This is funny. Let's break this down. For fun:

- Conversation is about DE depth vs DT depth
- I state "I give the DEs the nod and not because of numbers."
- You disagree with my point and state: "DE is based off numbers right now."
- I show you statistics of backup DEs vs backup DTs.
- DE backup production exceeds DT backup production.
- One of those comparisons is D-Jax, who you continually repeat has "done nothing."
- I already showed his stats, which exceed Moten's stats and more importantly in delta/difference to the player he'll backup. Trent Harris' stats exceed Gerald Willis' stats and more importantly in delta/difference to the player he'll backup.
- From my view, this is evidence that it's not just "quantity" of DEs that gives us better depth, but quality vis-a-vis DTs.
- You continue to repeat D-Jax has done nothing without considering his stats in relation to the original argument of DEs vs DTs.
- ????
- Profit?

If I'm missing something above, I'd love for you to break it down since apparently I am not making any sense to you.

 

[Cajuncane]

DJ at 11.22...what DE does that...do any of our DB's run that fast..daaaaaaauuuuummm.

Oh and nice write-up D$

 

[prinmemo]

Here's my guess at the Defense:

SDE - Chad Thomas/ Demetrius Jackson/ D.J. Johnson/ Scott Patchan

DT - RJ McIntosh/ Gerald Willis/ Pat Bethel/ Jon Ford/Martin
DT - Kendrick Norton/ Anthony Moten/ Tyreic Martin/ Ryan Fines

WDE - Joe Jackson/ Jonathan Garvin/ Trent Harris/ Patchan

WLB - Michael Pinckney/ Darrion Owens/ De'andre Wilder/ Terry McCray

MLB - Shaquille Quarterman/ Mike Smith/ Bradley Jennings Jr

SLB - Zach McCloud/ Charles Perry/ Jamie Gordinier/ Waynmon Steed(RS)

(Once Steed comes back healthy, he can actually play both W/S LB spots, he's that good, but I think he's best at Will)

LCB - Malek Young (will play the Elder role in Diaz's Defense, with better Ball skills)
RCB - Dee Delaney
NCB - Trajan Bandy
CB4 - Jhavonte Dean (will backup Delaney)
CB5 - Michael Jackson (will backup Young)
CB6 - Ryan Mayes/ Tyler Murphy
CB7 - Terrance Henley (ST's only)

FS - Sheldrick Redwine/ Amari Carter/ Derrick Smith
SS - Jaquan Johnson/ Robert Knowles/ Romeo Finley

That's incredible depth.

How many NFL players in that list?

 

[DMoney]

Go check the alumni records on Mile Split--Athletic net you quoted from did not have his 2014 times listed

Dalvin Cook---- 2014----Personal Records
100m - 10.92
200m - 22.58
Dalvin Cook - Stats

Thanks. I was using Athletic.net numbers which are apparently out of date.

A better comparison would be Jadeveon Clowney, who PRed at 11.43.

DJ looks a good deal faster than that freak at 6'5, 250.

 

[DMoney]

I saw Demetrius Jackson a few months ago is it me or does he look out of shape?

I would like to see him lean up a bit. He has untapped potential as a pass rusher, IMO. If he wants to get to the league, he will need to be as explosive as possible.

 

[brock]

I saw Demetrius Jackson a few months ago is it me or does he look out of shape?

I would like to see him lean up a bit. He has untapped potential as a pass rusher, IMO. If he wants to get to the league, he will need to be as explosive as possible.

255-260 shoulda be his range, needs more lean muscle

 

[D_G87]

I wasn't downplaying his game. He's highly effective at DE. I was just throwing it out there since we have the depth we do at DE

Any thought of moving Trent to LB with the depth at DE or has that ship sailed?

Although unappreciated I guess because he doesn't flash great measurables or project to be a high pick, he is well-built for what we do at WDE and actually produces at a high level. I absolutely love Garvin's potential, but let the kid play a specialist role for now while we try to win important games for the first time in a decade. If he outgrows that role and becomes dominant early on, better for everyone.

 

[LuCane]

I wasn't downplaying his game. He's highly effective at DE. I was just throwing it out there since we have the depth we do at DE

Any thought of moving Trent to LB with the depth at DE or has that ship sailed?

Although unappreciated I guess because he doesn't flash great measurables or project to be a high pick, he is well-built for what we do at WDE and actually produces at a high level. I absolutely love Garvin's potential, but let the kid play a specialist role for now while we try to win important games for the first time in a decade. If he outgrows that role and becomes dominant early on, better for everyone.

Was just continuing the convo. He's not really a great fit for what we do at LB and happens to be a decent fit for what we do at WDE. Additionally, if Joe Jackson were to miss time, I rather insert Harris than move D-Jax over or be forced to play True Frosh Garvin.

 

[Canes91]

I saw Demetrius Jackson a few months ago is it me or does he look out of shape?

I would like to see him lean up a bit. He has untapped potential as a pass rusher, IMO. If he wants to get to the league, he will need to be as explosive as possible.

From the pics I seen. I thought the same thing. Thought he would be a lean pass rushing specialist.

 

[IndayArtHauz]

Lawd let us not become LSU.

 

[Salt]

Special teams should be beastly

goes hand in hand as you build quality depth. I remember the days of Jesse Armstead and Darrin Smith as freshmen terrorizing punt returners.

 

[The Franchise]

Amari will play a lot. He's the perfect mix of talent, intelligence, and secret rage. Clarktavious Kent.

 

[The Franchise]

This could and should be the best D since early 2000s. I want a top 5 D. As long as the O doesn't keep them on the field too long. It sets up well with the schedule we have as well

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

They'll be feasting on almost all first year starting QBs too which should only help them in their bullying.