Shannon Bares Responsibility

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

I give Randy some credit for that telling coaches if they had contact with Shapiro they are gone and for players to stay clear of Shapiro.. Now why didn't he follow up on this? Shannon was there under Coker and at some point had to know Shapiro was bad news. Randy always said he had spies all over town so how did Shapiro pull all this off including this stuff on South Beach without someone spotting them? I blame Coker more than anyone since he was HC when most of the bad stuff went down but Randy was the DC then. However we had several players that got suspended by Golden for stuff they did with Shapiro when Randy was HC. Some of this was rumored to be on official Recruiting trips.

This stuff went of for many years so where was Randy when Shapiro was all over these guys and every coach knew who Shapiro was. I know it hasn't been proved but a few coaches are rumored in this mess. This Shapiro crap when on for so many years at some point Randy should have caught wind of something with Pee Wee in the locker room and Pee Wee's boss knew about it.

I believe that ultimately the blame lies on Kirby Hocutt. As a head coach, Shannon did what he was supposed to do. Warn all of his subordinates and players, then he reported his concerns to his boss.

Hocutt on the other hand had the most to lose. The job of an AD is to generate funds for the department. What do you do when an unproven coach comes to you to complain about the person who is donating the most? Basically the one who will make or break your job with his donations. My guess is he eventually did the right thing but it did leak out to the media that Shannon was having a bad relationship with boosters. That leads me to believe they might not have been in agreement about the situation initially.

This is very well written. While none of us know the true story, Hocutt was courting Shapiro even after Randy warned about him, so if you are going to blame one single person, that should be Hocutt.

That doesn't make much sense. Shapiro was a booster and donor long before Hocutt became AD or Shannon became coach. That notorious photo of Shapiro giving a big check to Shalala at a bowling alley happened back in 2008. So this guy had been giving money to UM for several years before Hocutt came on board..and, for that matter, before Shannon became head coach.

IMO, it's pointless to place the blame on any one person. Shapiro was a masterful liar, and he fooled a ****-ton of people over the years. Shalala, our ADs, and our lawyers who vetted him previous to accepting his donations all did their due diligence. Shannon had a hunch the guy was bad for the program, but to my knowledge, he didn't have any concrete evidence, so it's tough to expect him to go to the AD or the prez and say "this dude is dirty, don't take his big check" when you don't have any solid evidence against him.

 

[The Franchise]

I don't know what he knew or didn't know, but as my friend Mr. Lantz posted above, it's odd that he was such a micromanager and spy, yet he missed that little scumbag runt hanging around so much. Maybe he missed it because Shanntard was rarely around the program himself.

 

[drifters1234]

I blame Shannon for virtually all of our problems, but there is no evidence whatsoever to put the Shapiro fiasco on him. He is the only one that is on record telling the players to stay away from that sleezeball. Shannon has a ton of culpability; no need to invent additional issues.

 

[NorthFlaCane]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

You think if Jimmy Johnson told his assistants to stay away from someone they'd just go on dealing with the guy anyway? A limp wristed warning is not the same as actually asserting your authority over your subordinates.

 

[k9cane]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

You think if Jimmy Johnson told his assistants to stay away from someone they'd just go on dealing with the guy anyway? A limp wristed warning is not the same as actually asserting your authority over your subordinates.

To paraphrase from a vice-president debate from long ago: Randy Shannon is no Jimmy Johnson....

 

[NorthFlaCane]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

You think if Jimmy Johnson told his assistants to stay away from someone they'd just go on dealing with the guy anyway? A limp wristed warning is not the same as actually asserting your authority over your subordinates.

To paraphrase from a vice-president debate from long ago: Randy Shannon is no Jimmy Johnson....

Haha, understatement of the year. But still, Shannon stills bears responsibility for the Shapiro mess despite his warnings.

 

[condor]

Every coaches #1 job is to protect the University. Players talk to each other and players knew what was going on with Shapiro. It is the coaches job to find these things out like this stuff. Five or 6 years is enough time to catch wind of a 25 year old multi-millionaire taking your players all over South Beach, to Dolphin games, strip clubs and high end parties.

 

[Consigliere]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

While this is likely true, he ran a crap program. I don't expect the HC to know where his coaches and players were 24/7, I don't believe he had any clue of there whereabouts unless they were in front of him. He didn't have a clue what was going on and he could have done more...all I think of is Ignorantia juris non excusat .

Hopefully his ignorance combined with (1) Anit-Shapiro Rants and (2) NCAA going after the trouble makers keeps us out of serious trouble.

 

[Consigliere]

I don't know what he knew or didn't know, but as my friend Mr. Lantz posted above, it's odd that he was such a micromanager and spy, yet he missed that little scumbag runt hanging around so much. Maybe he missed it because Shanntard was rarely around the program himself.

Speaking of a man who steals paychecks, remember the camps that he never showed up too.

 

[Dandycane]

"He would have to be the most out of touch HC in America."

Considering the Hiroshima like state of the program when he was canned, you are right.

 

[condor]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

While this is likely true, he ran a crap program. I don't expect the HC to know where his coaches and players were 24/7, I don't believe he had any clue of there whereabouts unless they were in front of him. He didn't have a clue what was going on and he could have done more...all I think of is Ignorantia juris non excusat .

Hopefully his ignorance combined with (1) Anit-Shapiro Rants and (2) NCAA going after the trouble makers keeps us out of serious trouble.

Too bad the NCAA thinks the Coaches should know where the players are since they call this lack of institutional control.

University of Miami Athletic Director Paul Dee which had wrapped a “lack of institutional control” finding around USC’s neck for not knowing what Reggie Bush was doing. “Lack of institutional control”was the basis for the precedent-setting penalties levied against USC. Paul Dee, the chairman of the NCAA Committee on Infractions, said USC “strikes at the heart of the principles of amateurism.”

USC attempted to defend themselves from charges of lack of institutional control by claiming that they couldn't possibly be expected to control their players, and furthermore that they shouldn't be expected to! So, the refusal of the NCAA compliance office, made up of people who like Dee have helped oversee athletics departments, to buy this outright http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ing-paul-dee-for-your-troubles-is-bush-league

 

[The Franchise]

I don't know what he knew or didn't know, but as my friend Mr. Lantz posted above, it's odd that he was such a micromanager and spy, yet he missed that little scumbag runt hanging around so much. Maybe he missed it because Shanntard was rarely around the program himself.

Speaking of a man who steals paychecks, remember the camps that he never showed up too.

The guy was such a slug and so out of his depth as a HC that I can believe he didn't know much of anything that was going on around the program. ****zero conned a lot of people a lot more on the ball than Shanntard.

Shanntard didn't even know there were camps going on while he was HC. Dude was a total disaster in every phase as a HC.

My hope is that the NCAA realizes that ****zero bamboozled a lot of people and that Shanntard and UM were merely part of the group. It does UM no good at all if the NCAA claims that Shanntard knew or should have known what was going on because then you slip into the whole LOIC deal.

 

[MedleyCane]

I don't know what he knew or didn't know, but as my friend Mr. Lantz posted above, it's odd that he was such a micromanager and spy, yet he missed that little scumbag runt hanging around so much. Maybe he missed it because Shanntard was rarely around the program himself.

Speaking of a man who steals paychecks, remember the camps that he never showed up too.

The guy was such a slug and so out of his depth as a HC that I can believe he didn't know much of anything that was going on around the program. ****zero conned a lot of people a lot more on the ball than Shanntard.

Shanntard didn't even know there were camps going on while he was HC. Dude was a total disaster in every phase as a HC.

My hope is that the NCAA realizes that ****zero bamboozled a lot of people and that Shanntard and UM were merely part of the group. It does UM no good at all if the NCAA claims that Shanntard knew or should have known what was going on because then you slip into the whole LOIC deal.

Your last sentence is a point lost on many of our fellow Cane fans.
They think it was a good thing that Shannon reportedly knew about Shapiro being a con man, and that he warned his coaches and players.
But nothing could be further from the truth, especially if Shannon did not follow the process and procedures all schools have with reporting
possible in-house violations to the proper authorities.
For example, did Clint Hurtt leave UM for Louserville because Shannon wanted to get rid of a bad DLine coach, or because he knew he was
dirty and wanted to quietly get him out of the program?
If it's the latter, than that won't look good for us.

 

[Consigliere]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

While this is likely true, he ran a crap program. I don't expect the HC to know where his coaches and players were 24/7, I don't believe he had any clue of there whereabouts unless they were in front of him. He didn't have a clue what was going on and he could have done more...all I think of is Ignorantia juris non excusat .

Hopefully his ignorance combined with (1) Anit-Shapiro Rants and (2) NCAA going after the trouble makers keeps us out of serious trouble.

Too bad the NCAA thinks the Coaches should know where the players are since they call this lack of institutional control.

University of Miami Athletic Director Paul Dee which had wrapped a “lack of institutional control” finding around USC’s neck for not knowing what Reggie Bush was doing. “Lack of institutional control”was the basis for the precedent-setting penalties levied against USC. Paul Dee, the chairman of the NCAA Committee on Infractions, said USC “strikes at the heart of the principles of amateurism.”

USC attempted to defend themselves from charges of lack of institutional control by claiming that they couldn't possibly be expected to control their players, and furthermore that they shouldn't be expected to! So, the refusal of the NCAA compliance office, made up of people who like Dee have helped oversee athletics departments, to buy this outright http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ing-paul-dee-for-your-troubles-is-bush-league

You do need to control your players and coaches but I don't think it is possible to know where they are 24/7. That would require bracelets and trackers. I think since Reggie Bush was staying in some "posh downtown apartment" the attempt to claim WE HAD NO ***ING CLUE OR COULDN'T CONTROL THEM doesn't work that well.

There is a huge difference between $300,000 benefits and a few meals at Benihana.

 

[Consigliere]

I don't know what he knew or didn't know, but as my friend Mr. Lantz posted above, it's odd that he was such a micromanager and spy, yet he missed that little scumbag runt hanging around so much. Maybe he missed it because Shanntard was rarely around the program himself.

Speaking of a man who steals paychecks, remember the camps that he never showed up too.

The guy was such a slug and so out of his depth as a HC that I can believe he didn't know much of anything that was going on around the program. ****zero conned a lot of people a lot more on the ball than Shanntard.

Shanntard didn't even know there were camps going on while he was HC. Dude was a total disaster in every phase as a HC.

My hope is that the NCAA realizes that ****zero bamboozled a lot of people and that Shanntard and UM were merely part of the group. It does UM no good at all if the NCAA claims that Shanntard knew or should have known what was going on because then you slip into the whole LOIC deal.

Your last sentence is a point lost on many of our fellow Cane fans.
They think it was a good thing that Shannon reportedly knew about Shapiro being a con man, and that he warned his coaches and players.
But nothing could be further from the truth, especially if Shannon did not follow the process and procedures all schools have with reporting
possible in-house violations to the proper authorities.
For example, did Clint Hurtt leave UM for Louserville because Shannon wanted to get rid of a bad DLine coach, or because he knew he was
dirty and wanted to quietly get him out of the program?
If it's the latter, than that won't look good for us.

I agree but I don't think that Shannon knows what good coaching looks like.

 

[nadiamufdi]

I blame Shannon for virtually all of our problems, but there is no evidence whatsoever to put the Shapiro fiasco on him. He is the only one that is on record telling the players to stay away from that sleezeball. Shannon has a ton of culpability; no need to invent additional issues.

It's not like he was on staff the whole time shacunto was doing this..........oh wait

 

[The Franchise]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

While this is likely true, he ran a crap program. I don't expect the HC to know where his coaches and players were 24/7, I don't believe he had any clue of there whereabouts unless they were in front of him. He didn't have a clue what was going on and he could have done more...all I think of is Ignorantia juris non excusat .

Hopefully his ignorance combined with (1) Anit-Shapiro Rants and (2) NCAA going after the trouble makers keeps us out of serious trouble.

Too bad the NCAA thinks the Coaches should know where the players are since they call this lack of institutional control.

University of Miami Athletic Director Paul Dee which had wrapped a “lack of institutional control” finding around USC’s neck for not knowing what Reggie Bush was doing. “Lack of institutional control”was the basis for the precedent-setting penalties levied against USC. Paul Dee, the chairman of the NCAA Committee on Infractions, said USC “strikes at the heart of the principles of amateurism.”

USC attempted to defend themselves from charges of lack of institutional control by claiming that they couldn't possibly be expected to control their players, and furthermore that they shouldn't be expected to! So, the refusal of the NCAA compliance office, made up of people who like Dee have helped oversee athletics departments, to buy this outright http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ing-paul-dee-for-your-troubles-is-bush-league

You do need to control your players and coaches but I don't think it is possible to know where they are 24/7. That would require bracelets and trackers. I think since Reggie Bush was staying in some "posh downtown apartment" the attempt to claim WE HAD NO ***ING CLUE OR COULDN'T CONTROL THEM doesn't work that well.

There is a huge difference between $300,000 benefits and a few meals at Benihana.

That's the big distinction between our case and USC's. We had a bunch of really minor crap spread out over several players whereas USC had a ton of money and benefits centralized on Bush.

It is much easier to make the argument that the head corch or someone involved in the USC hierarchy should have noticed the way Bush and his family were suddenly living than it would be to claim the UM should have known that some kid had a steak dinner. I don't know how you monitor or stop someone from buying a kid a drink or a steak at night away from campus.

On top of all that, the new boss Emmert has shown clearly that he has changed the focus of the penalty structure to emphasize punishing the adults involved through show causes. He wasn't involve in the USC case. If he was I'm sure Carroll and a few other corches would have caught show causes and the scholarship reductions would have been far less dramatic. Emmert has also attempted to make the punishments far more uniform and predictable. Look at all the recent cases, and the punishments have been very similar.

 

[Consigliere]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

While this is likely true, he ran a crap program. I don't expect the HC to know where his coaches and players were 24/7, I don't believe he had any clue of there whereabouts unless they were in front of him. He didn't have a clue what was going on and he could have done more...all I think of is Ignorantia juris non excusat .

Hopefully his ignorance combined with (1) Anit-Shapiro Rants and (2) NCAA going after the trouble makers keeps us out of serious trouble.

Too bad the NCAA thinks the Coaches should know where the players are since they call this lack of institutional control.

University of Miami Athletic Director Paul Dee which had wrapped a “lack of institutional control” finding around USC’s neck for not knowing what Reggie Bush was doing. “Lack of institutional control”was the basis for the precedent-setting penalties levied against USC. Paul Dee, the chairman of the NCAA Committee on Infractions, said USC “strikes at the heart of the principles of amateurism.”

USC attempted to defend themselves from charges of lack of institutional control by claiming that they couldn't possibly be expected to control their players, and furthermore that they shouldn't be expected to! So, the refusal of the NCAA compliance office, made up of people who like Dee have helped oversee athletics departments, to buy this outright http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ing-paul-dee-for-your-troubles-is-bush-league

You do need to control your players and coaches but I don't think it is possible to know where they are 24/7. That would require bracelets and trackers. I think since Reggie Bush was staying in some "posh downtown apartment" the attempt to claim WE HAD NO ***ING CLUE OR COULDN'T CONTROL THEM doesn't work that well.

There is a huge difference between $300,000 benefits and a few meals at Benihana.

That's the big distinction between our case and USC's. We had a bunch of really minor crap spread out over several players whereas USC had a ton of money and benefits centralized on Bush.

It is much easier to make the argument that the head corch or someone involved in the USC hierarchy should have noticed the way Bush and his family were suddenly living than it would be to claim the UM should have known that some kid had a steak dinner. I don't know how you monitor or stop someone from buying a kid a drink or a steak at night away from campus.

On top of all that, the new boss Emmert has shown clearly that he has changed the focus of the penalty structure to emphasize punishing the adults involved through show causes. He wasn't involve in the USC case. If he was I'm sure Carroll and a few other corches would have caught show causes and the scholarship reductions would have been far less dramatic. Emmert has also attempted to make the punishments far more uniform and predictable. Look at all the recent cases, and the punishments have been very similar.

The only counter argument is when you eat Benihana you reek of it, the staff should have known the kids were eating there. Then again it is neither an upscale nor expensive restaurant...it is literally a joke.

Even if you took as true all the minor **** that happened, what are we talking about? $5,000.00 in benefits over 9ish players, all of them serving suspensions and all of them are GONE (except Dyron Dye). All the coaches implicated (Hurtt, Hill, Stoutland and Guido) gone. All benefits paid back.

 

[MaxCane]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

This is the problem, if Shannon knew about Shapiro's activities and did not advise Hocutt, he will be deemed complicit by the NCAA. If Shannon did advise Hocutt, which many believe he did, and Hocutt did nothing, this is a big problem. Either way UM lacked institutional control. Hocutt had an obligation to thoroughly investigate Shapiro and his activities with the players and it doesn't appear he did. It looks like he chose not to investigate Shapiro cause he didn't want to offend a booster who was giving money to UM. IMO this will be where the NCAA finds cause to hammer us.

 

[Consigliere]

Um, not to defend Randy Shannon or strip away any culpability he may have had in all this, but didn't he actually tell everyone to stay away from that slimeball? Again, perhaps that's not enough, but it's not as if he advocated for the guy, either

This is the problem, if Shannon knew about Shapiro's activities and did not advise Hocutt, he will be deemed complicit by the NCAA. If Shannon did advise Hocutt, which many believe he did, and Hocutt did nothing, this is a big problem. Either way UM lacked institutional control. Hocutt had an obligation to thoroughly investigate Shapiro and his activities with the players and it doesn't appear he did. It looks like he chose not to investigate Shapiro cause he didn't want to offend a booster who was giving money to UM. IMO this will be where the NCAA finds cause to hammer us.

IMO, I don't think Shannon knew much about his team. If Shannon didn't know, he couldn't report up because he didn't have anything to report up (he didn't know).

Hocutt and Shalala didn't hear anything from Shannon, because he didn't know and nothing was reported up. Also, Nevin took almost a billion dollars from investors and was able to out do the FBI/DOJ/SEC for some time (relevant because many were duped by this conman criminal aka the smoking gun).

Honestly, what could have been known was likely only known by the end user (the kid who took benefits from Shapiro or the coach that did the same)...this is my hope that because only the end user took stuff and no one else had knowledge that the NCAA punishes the end users here. Some end users have been punished (the kids serving suspensions in the 2011 season and paying back benefits conferred), more end users will be punished (like Bruce Pearl) because raping the program doesn't punish the wrongdoers. Remember now (to the board) we served 2 bowl bans, almost all the players are gone (minus Dyron Dye) and there are no coaches left who were mentioned in the original report...in fact Hocutt is gone.

IMO, we will get a punishment but as the Franchise says the NCAA will hit the coaches harder who were involved.