Shalala still pushing for a settlement

[Picksix]

I know she officially took over June of 2001, but I am fairly certain she was already on campus in the interim and had very much a say in who was hired. In fact, I remember Shalala was the one who contacted Coker after Dee informed her that he was his choice. So yeah, she did, in fact, try to bring Alvarez in. She hired him at Wisconsin.

Sounds like an awful lot of speculation to me.

"Speculation" might be generous. She was still in her Washington post until January 20th, 2001 and wasn't hired at miami until June.

As everyone on the hoops board pointed about, Gringo has an anti-shalala agenda because she worked under Clinton a decade ago.

Shalala had nothing to do with the Coker hiring. Paul Dee had total control over that hire and the Coker contract extension. Shalala was handed that cluster fock. Then her hands were tied hiring Randy because Coker had his contract extension and was one the highest paid HC's in the nation.

Let's also keep in mind that Golden and Laranaga were hired under Shalala's watch so she can't hate the program as much as the bashers claim. It's nothing but Conservatives who hate her because she's a lib.

Thats funny stuff.

Yeah, if you're retarded then it might be. Shalala didn't hire Coker and sure as **** didn't extend his contract. Coker was the highest paid HC in CFB after Miami won the national championship. Miami was stuck hiring some scrub like Randy because of Coker's contract. As soon as Randy was given his shot and failed Shalala and company went out and got Golden. Shalala and company also showed Haith the door and got Laranaga.

Those are facts. Only people who an agenda and ignore those facts claim Shalala hates sports and wants to see Miami fail in sports.

Let's hear your retarded version...

 

[Picksix]

Sounds like an awful lot of speculation to me.

"Speculation" might be generous. She was still in her Washington post until January 20th, 2001 and wasn't hired at miami until June.

As everyone on the hoops board pointed about, Gringo has an anti-shalala agenda because she worked under Clinton a decade ago.

Shalala had nothing to do with the Coker hiring. Paul Dee had total control over that hire and the Coker contract extension. Shalala was handed that cluster fock. Then her hands were tied hiring Randy because Coker had his contract extension and was one the highest paid HC's in the nation.

Let's also keep in mind that Golden and Laranaga were hired under Shalala's watch so she can't hate the program as much as the bashers claim. It's nothing but Conservatives who hate her because she's a lib.

Thats funny stuff.

I have no such agenda with the troll. I couldn't care less she worked for Billy Bob but I am also still fairly certain she was on campus as an interim well before she was "officially" the President of UM. I still remember Alvarez turning down the job publicly and that it was well known Shalala was making a run after him. Coker was like the 5th option or something, mindboggling given the talent on the roster.

Anyone who thinks athletics have shined under Shalala needs their head examined. After Butch's kids left, we've been a 7 win program tops with the 9 win anomoly thrown in for football. Basketball we had Yuckmouth replaced by Haith, one exceptionally bad followed by slightly above average. Women's basketball has made some strides and Amy Deen could coach at Pine Tree Tech and be successful so I contend we are lucky to have her. I think women's tennis made a run one year and finished top 2 or 4 before losing to Stanford, I could be wrong. What's after that? Swimming? Golf? Our golden goose is football and its been a dumpster fire. Basketball was rising under Hamilton but its been pathetic followed by underachievement till Coach L showed up.

People who really know me, know I blame Paul Deelicious for 90% of our athletic ineptness. He was a great lawyer but he was not a fundraiser and he certainly had no vision and sounded no alarm on the football arms race and the crumbling Orange Bowl, which should have been addressed in the mid 90's and he should have gone full ****** when we were on the upswing in 99-01. But no, nothing. He should have fired Yuckmouth after season 2, at which point it is my opinion that several big names floating around would have interest. Randy Shannon was barely qualified to be a coordinator and after one interview I knew he would be a disaster. So yes, blame Dee for all the above but his boss was Shalala, who I do believe wants winning programs here, but for the most part has failed miserably. Golden and Larranaga have fallen into our laps, so here's to keeping them happy and having an AD who has a vision for the future and is aggressive with fundraising and marketing.

Shalala went after Alvarez during the Randy hire. Are we going to act like Alvarez wouldn't have been a better hire than Randy? LOL! GTFOOH!

So the haters will admit she went after Alvarez who would have been leaps and bounds better than Randy but then claim she hates sports because of Randy? You can't make this **** up!

 

[Jonnyblaze]

Nice to see the thread stayed on topic.

 

[CaneInsideHer]

Dycane - you don't think being led by two grossly incompetent head coaches coaches over a ten year period didn't contribute to the NCAA firestorm which took place? You don't think some of this could have been prevented with competant leadership in the Athletic Department? Is having competent leadership under her not a responsibility of the president? What happened to the U Football is not a one time event - it's a string of judgement errors which took place over a ten year period. Judgement errors at all levels of the organization.

Any President/CEO is ultimately in charge of the performance of the entire entity they run. Right or wrong, directly or indirectly, Senior Leadership of any organization is going to be scrutinized when **** hits the fan. Is she a doing a great job cleaning up the mess - yes. Is she successful as president in other more important aspects of her job - yes. However, I don't think she gets a free pass on NCAA debacle. Too much crap went down for too long to be getting a free pass for that.

No. One has nothing to do with the other. This mess was caused by Nevin Shapiro, a sociopathic confidence man with an insatiable desire to feel cool by surrounding himself with impressionable, poor student athletes and a cadre of super-***** whores. In fact, Shannon, in part, will be one of our saving graces. He's not under investigation for a reason -- by all accounts he despised Shapiro and made it abundantly clear that the players were to stay away from him. This is the primary reason Shapiro hated him.

Additionally, Donna was responsible for assimilating one of the best compliance departments in the country. It may sound ironical, but it's true. The real reason we're in this mess is because we're Miami. The Yahoo report was a sensationalized piece of garbage, but it fed the bigots and haters. It reignited the lingering perception that we are Thug U and that the City of Miami is nothing but a menagerie of animals. It put the NCAA in a position where it had to go after Miami, and it gave those inside the NCAA the license to hang Miami out to dry.

You act as if we had two coaches enabling boosters to drop bags of cash across Overtown. Our previous two coaches failed on the field. No doubt. But they didn't bring in a bunch of illiterate, low character players. They didn't ask boosters to pay for kids. They didn't support breaking rules. And they certainly didn't allow Shapiro to run a scam on a bunch of impressionable kids, just like he did with many sophisticated parties to the tune of a billion dollars.

Your generalizations and broad strokes fail at the gate.

Boom.

 

[CaneInsideHer]

Sounds like an awful lot of speculation to me.

"Speculation" might be generous. She was still in her Washington post until January 20th, 2001 and wasn't hired at miami until June.

As everyone on the hoops board pointed about, Gringo has an anti-shalala agenda because she worked under Clinton a decade ago.

Shalala had nothing to do with the Coker hiring. Paul Dee had total control over that hire and the Coker contract extension. Shalala was handed that cluster fock. Then her hands were tied hiring Randy because Coker had his contract extension and was one the highest paid HC's in the nation.

Let's also keep in mind that Golden and Laranaga were hired under Shalala's watch so she can't hate the program as much as the bashers claim. It's nothing but Conservatives who hate her because she's a lib.

Thats funny stuff.

I have no such agenda with the troll. I couldn't care less she worked for Billy Bob but I am also still fairly certain she was on campus as an interim well before she was "officially" the President of UM. I still remember Alvarez turning down the job publicly and that it was well known Shalala was making a run after him. Coker was like the 5th option or something, mindboggling given the talent on the roster.

Anyone who thinks athletics have shined under Shalala needs their head examined. After Butch's kids left, we've been a 7 win program tops with the 9 win anomoly thrown in for football. Basketball we had Yuckmouth replaced by Haith, one exceptionally bad followed by slightly above average. Women's basketball has made some strides and Amy Deen could coach at Pine Tree Tech and be successful so I contend we are lucky to have her. I think women's tennis made a run one year and finished top 2 or 4 before losing to Stanford, I could be wrong. What's after that? Swimming? Golf? Our golden goose is football and its been a dumpster fire. Basketball was rising under Hamilton but its been pathetic followed by underachievement till Coach L showed up.

People who really know me, know I blame Paul Deelicious for 90% of our athletic ineptness. He was a great lawyer but he was not a fundraiser and he certainly had no vision and sounded no alarm on the football arms race and the crumbling Orange Bowl, which should have been addressed in the mid 90's and he should have gone full ****** when we were on the upswing in 99-01. But no, nothing. He should have fired Yuckmouth after season 2, at which point it is my opinion that several big names floating around would have interest. Randy Shannon was barely qualified to be a coordinator and after one interview I knew he would be a disaster. So yes, blame Dee for all the above but his boss was Shalala, who I do believe wants winning programs here, but for the most part has failed miserably. Golden and Larranaga have fallen into our laps, so here's to keeping them happy and having an AD who has a vision for the future and is aggressive with fundraising and marketing.

Lol, so she takes all the blame for failed hires of the past, but when it comes to two solid hires, they just "fell into our laps?"

Seems legit.

 

[Larry]

I don't know which is more of a scumbag...Nevin Shapiro or the NCAA as a staff, record label, and as a mother****in crew.

The action the NCAA has taken against Miami to implicate them in Shapiro's shenanigans as much as they have is some downright scumbaggery. Two year investigation (basically guilty until proven innocent with a punishment of probation)...having Shapiro's lawyer on payroll...threatening alumnus with ridiculousness...some straight ****ery by this organization and I hope Shalalabad declares a legal jihad on they ***.

 

[DeadPoets]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

 

[CaneSuger]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

Nope. Shannon > Coker.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

Let me start by saying an extremely well trained chimpanzee could have coached that 2001 team.

But for the sake of argument I'll give you that, at the time, the Coker hire was an "ok" hire....but talk to me about the thinking behind his extension.

Then when you're done with that...talk to me how she came to the conclusion that Shannon had any business being NEAR a head coaching job.

Then....talk to me about how the guy who never should have even been a candidate...got an extension.

With all that said. If she gets us out of this NCAA mess with no further punishment and relatively soon I'm willing to forgive everything and hope/assume she's learned from her mistakes.

This NCAA cloud is the first major step in this program truly being "back". That dark cloud that perpetually follows us around will be lifted and recruiting, by default, will get even better which is the main building block for success in college football.

 

[Picksix]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

Again, Coker was hired by Paul Dee before Shalala had any say. Paul Dee had full control of the athletic department at that time. Coker was hired because that team was destined for success and all Coker had to do was not touch anything. The problem came about because Coker didn't touch anything and won big. He was a hot commodity and was given a huge contract extension that locked Miami down. As the program sunk Coker's checks kept coming in even long after he was gone. The only reason Randy was hired was because of that contract extension and the University was forced to give him a shot. As soon as Coker's contract was up and the Randy experiment was over the University brought in a competent HC in Golden.

 

[Gennaker Cane]

Time to look back in time:
Copyright 2001 The Miami Herald
All Rights Reserved

The Miami Herald

February 3, 2001 Saturday FINAL EDITION

SECTION: SPORTS; Pg. 1D

LENGTH: 1094 words

HEADLINE: UM OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR EMERGES AS TOP CANDIDATE TO REPLACE DAVIS

BYLINE: SUSAN MILLER DEGNAN AND STEPHEN F. HOLDER,, sdegnan@herald.com

BODY:
Barry Alvarez is out. Larry Coker could be in.

Coker, 52, the University of Miami's offensive coordinator since 1995, emerged as the leading candidate for UM's head-coaching job when Alvarez pulled out of contention Friday night to take a substantial pay raise from the University of Wisconsin.

Colorado State coach Sonny Lubick, believed to be the candidate behind Coker should the Miami assistant not be chosen, told The Denver Post on Friday night he has not been contacted and he believes Coker - UM's interim head coach - is Miami's top choice.

"People are speculating on something that's not going to happen," Lubick said. "No one has contacted me. No one will." Lubick expressed concern about other schools using the speculation about him to lure away the 19 recruits who already have committed to Colorado State.

National Signing Day for high school recruits is Wednesday, and Dee has moved up his hiring deadline to Sunday, two UM sources said.

Coker needs to be approved by outgoing UM president Edward T. Foote II and incoming president Donna Shalala, who takes over June 1. It is likely Shalala, known for her hands-on style of administrating, will want to interview Coker. Shalala's close friendship with Alvarez, who Friday agreed to a new Wisconsin contract worth at least $1.3 million annually, is widely known.

Alvarez turned down a UM offer of $1.4 million annually for five years, the same contract offered to former coach Butch Davis. But sources said Alvarez wanted more, which proved unacceptable to both presidents.

"The presidents have both been advised every step of the way," UM athletic director Paul Dee said. "I talk to them at least once a day."

Alvarez, 54, announced in a Madison, Wis., news conference that he planned to stay at Wisconsin for life. "I've put an awful lot of work into this program," he said. "It's my program. I put my stamp on it. I plan on this being my last job."

Alvarez's departure as a viable candidate leaves Miami scurrying even more to hire someone to allay the fears of prospective UM recruits. To meet Dee's Sunday timetable, Coker - recruiting in San Francisco - probably would have to fly to Shalala's home in Washington today or Sunday.

"Donna Shalala is unavailable for comment," UM spokesperson Sarah Artecona said. "She is not commenting on any university-related issues until she starts June 1."

A Dolphins source and UM source said Dolphins offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, rumored to be another candidate, has not been contacted about the UM job left vacant when Davis resigned Monday to become coach of the Cleveland Browns. Gailey is not expected to be called.

Dolphins coach Dave Wannstedt, a former UM assistant who worked with Davis under Jimmy Johnson, endorsed Coker on Friday. "I hope Larry Coker is getting the job," Wannstedt said. "He has done a good job and deserves an opportunity."

Wannstedt, believed to have been Dee's first choice for the UM job as early as Wednesday, signed a contract extension with the Dolphins on Friday. Reports had Wannstedt rejecting a 10-year UM offer worth as much as $20 million.

Wannstedt said he had not spoken to anyone from UM. Asked if any of his representatives had been contacted by UM representatives, he replied, "Call Paul Dee. He'll tell you."

Dee did not specifically address the issue but said: "[Hiring Wannstedt] would have been a wonderful thing. But there was not an opportunity there. I would have loved to have considered somebody of that caliber."

Wannstedt is not Coker's only supporter. UM players, assistant coaches and most of the athletic department staff have rallied around Coker, who also is UM's quarterbacks coach.

"I relish the opportunity I've been given, and I hope I am given consideration for the head-coaching job," Coker said Monday. "It's not my dream to be in the [NFL]. I love college football. I've turned down some pretty lucrative offers to be a coordinator at other major colleges for twice the money I make here.

"I expect a fair shot. I've been here six years. We've worked through [the NCAA sanctions], and the program is much, much better now than it was six years ago. This would be my dream opportunity."

Coker was hired by Davis in February 1995. Although Dee said Thursday he'd prefer someone who has head-coaching experience on the college or pro level, Coker's only stints as a head coach came at two Oklahoma high schools, Fairfax from 1970 to '76 and Claremore in '77-78.

Coker moved to the University of Tulsa as running backs/quarterbacks coach in '79 and was promoted to offensive coordinator there in 1980. He then went to Oklahoma State, followed by the University of Oklahoma, Ohio State and Miami. All his coaching jobs were on offense, except for a defensive backs job in 1993-94 at Ohio State.

Friday, UM players met with Dee and expressed their strong support for Coker. Dee was asked if it was tough for Coker to keep recruiting while his job status is in question.

"Well, I think he has incentive [to do a good job]," Dee said. "The incentive is, we're watching." Said offensive line coach Art Kehoe this week: "The UM coaches, players, video people, equipment people, staff members - everyone - want Larry Coker to be the head coach. Give Larry a chance. We won't mess it up. We'll get it done. Guaranteed." Herald Sports Writers Jason Cole and Juan C. Rodriguez contributed to this report. UM COACHING CANDIDATES Larry Coker * Born: June 23, 1948, at Weleetka, Okla. * College: Northeastern Oklahoma State, 1973. * Family: Married to Dianna. . . . They have one daughter, Lara. * Coaching experience: 1979 - Running backs/quarterbacks coach, Tulsa. 1980-82 - Offensive coordinator, Tulsa. 1983-89 - Offensive coordinator, Oklahoma State. 1990-92 - Offensive coordinator, Oklahoma. 1993-94 - Defensive backs coach, Ohio State. 1995-present - Offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach, Miami. * Career head-coaching record: None. Sonny Lubick * Born: March 12, 1937, at Butte, Mont. * College: Western Montana, 1960. * Family: Married to Carol Jo. . . . They have two sons, Matthew and Marc, and a daughter, Michelle. * Coaching experience: 1970-77 - Assistant coach, Montana State. 1978-81 - Head coach, Montana State. 1982-84 - Offensive coordinator, Colorado State. 1985-88 - Assistant coach, Stanford. 1988-1992 - Defensive coordinator/linebackers coach, Miami. 1993-present - Head coach, Colorado State. * Career head-coaching record: 21-19 at Montana State, 70-29 with five conference titles at Colorado State.

NOTES: COLLEGE FOOTBALL: See UM COACHING CANDIDATES box at end.


The Miami Herald

February 2, 2001 Friday FINAL EDITION

SECTION: SPORTS; Pg. 7D

LENGTH: 687 words

HEADLINE: SHALALA, ALVAREZ TURNED BADGERS INTO FOOTBALL POWER

BYLINE: JUAN C. RODRIGUEZ, jrodriguez@herald.com

BODY:
Donna Shalala had her priorities firmly set while considering her next career move:

* She wanted to run an institution seeking to improve itself.

* She wanted to lead a university that could benefit from a meaty fund-raising campaign.

* And, she wanted a good football team.

Shalala's confirmation as the University of Miami's next president June 1 should help maintain the Hurricanes' standing as an elite football program. Her presence certainly hasn't hurt Miami's search for one of the nation's premier college football coaches.

Wisconsin's Barry Alvarez appears primed to replace Butch Davis, reuniting a tandem that propelled the Badgers to football excellence.

Prior to serving as President Bill Clinton's secretary of health and human services, Shalala was Wisconsin's chancellor from 1987-93.

"She was very instrumental in helping us get back on our feet," said Wisconsin sports information director Steve Malchow, a candidate to become Miami's assistant athletic director for communications. "We were a program in debt when I got here [in 1990]. We weren't competing that well on the field. Our resources were sub-par. She helped give us the tools for a fair chance to compete."

. . .
Shalala did sign off on the Coker hire, her approval was probably more important than either Dee or Tad Foote's. What that means is up to all of you to decide.

 

[decleated]

The NCAA is playing a dangerous game here with Miami..
Miami has set a precedent on how to cooperate with the NCAA and look how they are returning the favor..
The NCAA is dragging it out for so long it has cost the school millions of dollars and a whole bunch of negative recruiting..

 

[nadiamufdi]

The NCAA is playing a dangerous game here with Miami..
Miami has set a precedent on how to cooperate with the NCAA and look how they are returning the favor..
The NCAA is dragging it out for so long it has cost the school millions of dollars and a whole bunch of negative recruiting..

All points in your post are the bullet points in Shalala's presentation to Emmert on why this sh*t needs to end yesterday

 

[SmokeyRone]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

It was not firing Coker, early in 2003, that was negligent, and renweing his contract was criminal, and fat POS Dee didn't do one thing that wasn't promulgated by Shalala

 

[Houtxcane]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

It was not firing Coker, early in 2003, that was negligent, and renweing his contract was criminal, and fat POS Dee didn't do one thing that wasn't promulgated by Shalala

Do you have any insights that you are not sharing here? Were you in on the board meetings?

/Yes, I am serious. I don't know who you are, so I am curious.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

It was not firing Coker, early in 2003, that was negligent, and renweing his contract was criminal, and fat POS Dee didn't do one thing that wasn't promulgated by Shalala

Yes, because she should have known immediately after the letdown at the Fiesta Bowl, our first loss in 34 games, that Coker was a dud.

I could see if you'd at least said he shoulda been fired after 2004...but this is just silly.

 

[SmokeyRone]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

It was not firing Coker, early in 2003, that was negligent, and renweing his contract was criminal, and fat POS Dee didn't do one thing that wasn't promulgated by Shalala

Yes, because she should have known immediately after the letdown at the Fiesta Bowl, our first loss in 34 games, that Coker was a dud.

I could see if you'd at least said he shoulda been fired after 2004...but this is just silly.

No, 2003, after the West Virginia game, when EVERYONE, including the peanut vendors in the Orange Bowl, saw that Coker had zero control over the sidelines, the game, the clock, or life.

Betting (and losing) the Canes dynasty on a failed ex gator QB, who was run out of Gainesville, was a criminal act.

 

[dycane]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

It was not firing Coker, early in 2003, that was negligent, and renweing his contract was criminal, and fat POS Dee didn't do one thing that wasn't promulgated by Shalala

Yes, because she should have known immediately after the letdown at the Fiesta Bowl, our first loss in 34 games, that Coker was a dud.

I could see if you'd at least said he shoulda been fired after 2004...but this is just silly.

No, 2003, after the West Virginia game, when EVERYONE, including the peanut vendors in the Orange Bowl, saw that Coker had zero control over the sidelines, the game, the clock, or life.

Betting (and losing) the Canes dynasty on a failed ex gator QB, who was run out of Gainesville, was a criminal act.

Is this real life?

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

The Larry Coker hire wasn't the bad hire. It made sense at the time and had major support from players, assistant coaches, and trustees. it also paid off with a NC.

The Shannon hire was an AWFUL hire and done for all the wrong reasons. Let's just hope she's learned her lessons on trying to make "politically correct" hires.

It was not firing Coker, early in 2003, that was negligent, and renweing his contract was criminal, and fat POS Dee didn't do one thing that wasn't promulgated by Shalala

Yes, because she should have known immediately after the letdown at the Fiesta Bowl, our first loss in 34 games, that Coker was a dud.

I could see if you'd at least said he shoulda been fired after 2004...but this is just silly.

No, 2003, after the West Virginia game, when EVERYONE, including the peanut vendors in the Orange Bowl, saw that Coker had zero control over the sidelines, the game, the clock, or life.

Betting (and losing) the Canes dynasty on a failed ex gator QB, who was run out of Gainesville, was a criminal act.

Is this real life?

Yes, apparently 11-2 should get you fired at UM.

We've got some real gems on this board.

 

[DCH]

I'm not sure which group is worse, the people who think Donna is infallible or the people who think she has a conspiracy to kill athletics.

In either case, i think we would be best served to move all Donna Shalala threads to the porsters playground