forums

Serious question regarding turning this program around.

C

CANE1775

Senior
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
4,965
Numerous posters have offered their opinions with regards to how long it's going to take to turn this thing around. Most posters also agree that Golden's strength is not with X's & O's but instead with recruiting. Many of these same posters hope that he's the second coming of Butch Davis. So my question is, with sanctions that are looming over the program longer than what Butch had to deal with, and considering that almost everyone agrees that butch had arguably the best eye for talent ever, why are so many people expecting Golden to turn it around faster than Butch did? I mean, we weren't fully back until Butch's 6th season, yet I haven't seen one single individual say that 2016 should be the barometer year for AG. In fact, if Golden does turn it around in his 6th season just like Butch, one could argue that Al's turnaround is even more impressive considering sanctions are still hovering over his head late into his second season whereas Butch knew what he was up against before the end of his first season.

Are you saying Golden is better than Butch? Are you saying the circumstances are more favorable in Golden's situation? I am in no way asking for everyone to be patient and give Golden six years before they start complaining, but instead I'm just trying to understand the logic of those that compare Golden to Butch Davis but then expect him to turn things around quicker. That stance just doesn't make sense to me, yet quite a few fans have it.
 
Advertisement
Are you really trying to have a logical discussion after a Hurricane loss? Might as well throw your life savings into the lotto today and hope for the best.
 
LOL. I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable and level headed posters chime in.



Edit: And I do have one other point, but I'm going to hold off until others chime in.
 
Last edited:
Butch v. Golden, X's and O's. Don't know.

I think the difference between late 90s and now, is many teams have leveled the playing field with talent. While I think Butch's system will always set a team up for success (i.e. bringing the right talent in), it requires proper coaching and development too. We will see if Fedora can recruit as well as Butch but he certainly can coach an offense. UNC has something like 4 players expected to go in the top 30 of the draft, Butch excelled at this scouting stuff.

Now I do believe that Butch could win BCS bowls in college if he surrounded himself with the right OC. I think he needs a lot of help there.

Now as for Golden, I think he has a good eye too and relentless work ethic. I think his whole staff has that. I don't believe we will lose many recruits because for lack of effort. I do believe he needs similar help to Butch from his coordinators.

It is difficult to know what type of sanctions we are getting into with that being said we cannot dwell on the unknown. Obviously if the NCAA drops the hammer, that changes everything.

I think most people want to see NEXT YEAR this team beat UVA and UNC, at the very least.

I think most people want to see improvement in terms of wins, 9 should be a target for the season.

2013 Win the Coastal Outright, win 9 games.
 
Advertisement
CANE1775 said:
Numerous posters have offered their opinions with regards to how long it's going to take to turn this thing around. Most posters also agree that Golden's strength is not with X's & O's but instead with recruiting. Many of these same posters hope that he's the second coming of Butch Davis. So my question is, with sanctions that are looming over the program longer than what Butch had to deal with, and considering that almost everyone agrees that butch had arguably the best eye for talent ever, why are so many people expecting Golden to turn it around faster than Butch did? I mean, we weren't fully back until Butch's 6th season, yet I haven't seen one single individual say that 2016 should be the barometer year for AG. In fact, if Golden does turn it around in his 6th season just like Butch, one could argue that Al's turnaround is even more impressive considering sanctions are still hovering over his head late into his second season whereas Butch knew what he was up against before the end of his first season.

Are you saying Golden is better than Butch? Are you saying the circumstances are more favorable in Golden's situation? I am in no way asking for everyone to be patient and give Golden six years before they start complaining, but instead I'm just trying to understand the logic of those that compare Golden to Butch Davis but then expect him to turn things around quicker. That stance just doesn't make sense to me, yet quite a few fans have it.
Click to expand...

Cold water in the face

queue Eddie murphy "In the Face" from Coming to America
 
Last edited:
Thank goodness someone said this! I love reading the posts to find out information about the Canes because I live in central PA and all I hear about is PSU (fan base that thinks its them against the world. Give me a break!). But after a lose everyone wants to jump off a bridge or should I say throw the coaches or players of a bridge. I am with everyone that is frustrated because I hate losing, but this is a process, especially with all the other BS going on with the program. Hopefully with some time the team can get back on track!
 
AlexCane said:
Are you really trying to have a logical discussion after a Hurricane loss? Might as well throw your life savings into the lotto today and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

So true.

Ask last week and you would have probably gotten some good replies.
 
In all seriousness, it's hard to ask for logic after a loss. This site is short-sighted. The truth is that until the season concludes, it'll be hard to have the proper PERSPECTIVE. (I put that in caps because I think in general, most fans have none.)

IF we finish 7-5, that's an improvement from last year and something we can build on. An upward trend is nice to see ("You are what your record says you are.") That being said, finishing 0-2 or 1-1 won't surprise me either.

But, if we can close out 7-5, considering the circumstances, I think it's something most of us (a) expected and/or (b) would have accepted coming into the season.
 
Advertisement
AlexCane said:
In all seriousness, it's hard to ask for logic after a loss. This site is short-sighted. The truth is that until the season concludes, it'll be hard to have the proper PERSPECTIVE. (I put that in caps because I think in general, most fans have none.)

IF we finish 7-5, that's an improvement from last year and something we can build on. An upward trend is nice to see ("You are what your record says you are.") That being said, finishing 0-2 or 1-1 won't surprise me either.

But, if we can close out 7-5, considering the circumstances, I think it's something most of us (a) expected and/or (b) would have accepted coming into the season.
Click to expand...

I agree most have a PERSPECTIVE. You may need to capitalize PROPER as well. I think past success and recent failure has caused that piece of the equation to be out of whack at times - win or lose.
 
I'd like to hop on in this discussion, but before I do, someone help me out. I was like 8 at the time. Butch was hired in 95, is this the same year we were hit with probation?
 
AlexCane said:
In all seriousness, it's hard to ask for logic after a loss. This site is short-sighted. The truth is that until the season concludes, it'll be hard to have the proper PERSPECTIVE. (I put that in caps because I think in general, most fans have none.)

IF we finish 7-5, that's an improvement from last year and something we can build on. An upward trend is nice to see ("You are what your record says you are.") That being said, finishing 0-2 or 1-1 won't surprise me either.

But, if we can close out 7-5, considering the circumstances, I think it's something most of us (a) expected and/or (b) would have accepted coming into the season.
Click to expand...

I think there is a lot of truth here.

Regardless of what "expectations" are/were, it would keep us going in the right direction. At this point, if we can close out with 2 Ws it shows that team stayed focused in the end and won the last two games.

I don't know who is coming back from injury/suspension but we should beat USF by a touchdown. We need to win this game, we need Al to keep these young players grinding and not giving up. That is the improvement that I am looking for also from here on out.
 
Advertisement
I think it is a product of what the college football culture and American culture has become.

-College coaches are now basically given three years to succeed or they are fired, college ADs, presidents, and fans have begun to look at coaching in college as similar or on par with the NFL. The part that most fail to acknowledge is that NFL player/roster adjustments can be done quickly, free agency, trades, etc.
-"The Nick Saban/Urban Meyer Syndrome" Urban won immediately at UF and Nick Saban won a title within 2 yrs at Alabama. Now for some reason, fans, boosters, school admins, think that Saban/Meyer is the rule and not the exception.
-American culture is culture now of instant gratification. Americans expect things to be done yesterday and shun anything that isn't immediately gratifying to their needs and or tastes. Football is a part of society and the culture and attitude of it is a direct reflection of that of society.
 
USNAVYCANE said:
Stop acting like this is 00-04 canes teams
Click to expand...

Is that meant for the OP? If so, wtf?

Based on what I saw in the spring, the depth chart, and all of the experience on defense getting hoodwinked by Rosenhaus, I thought we would be very fortunate to equal our win total from last year. I legitimately thought that we could see a 2-4 win season based on the roster and schedule. A lot of the so-called experts around the country also had us finishing well down in the Coastal and not even winning 6 games. This team has exceeded my expectations for the season, and the coaching staff, IMO, is performing miracles with what they have to work with. Most fans here don't want to hear that because they need to be instantly gratified and lack any comprehension of reality. They think that "We are Miami!", which is somehow supposed to make us immune to being a crappy team. Guess what? We're a crappy team, and we'll be lucky to win another game this season. Hopefully, we can pull one of these games out and self-impose again. There's little chance, in my mind, of winning 9 games next season. That would be a fantastic result, and Golden should be crowned and given a job for life if he can pull that off.
 
Until this tean is rid of the kids that have discipline issues this is what we will have; lack of discipline off the field usually means lack of discipline on the field
 
Advertisement
sebastian91 said:
USNAVYCANE said:
Stop acting like this is 00-04 canes teams
Click to expand...

Is that meant for the OP? If so, wtf?

Based on what I saw in the spring, the depth chart, and all of the experience on defense getting hoodwinked by Rosenhaus, I thought we would be very fortunate to equal our win total from last year. I legitimately thought that we could see a 2-4 win season based on the roster and schedule. A lot of the so-called experts around the country also had us finishing well down in the Coastal and not even winning 6 games. This team has exceeded my expectations for the season, and the coaching staff, IMO, is performing miracles with what they have to work with. Most fans here don't want to hear that because they need to be instantly gratified and lack any comprehension of reality. They think that "We are Miami!", which is somehow supposed to make us immune to being a crappy team. Guess what? We're a crappy team, and we'll be lucky to win another game this season. Hopefully, we can pull one of these games out and self-impose again. There's little chance, in my mind, of winning 9 games next season. That would be a fantastic result, and Golden should be crowned and given a job for life if he can pull that off.
Click to expand...


This. Golden walked into an abomination from all angles: recruiting, talent, S&C, entitled players, and the icing on the cake, pending sanctions.
 
I'm trying to take a "global" perspective here ...

The sanctions are the big wildcard and unknown. However, IMO the biggest draw and attraction for recruits is early playing time. Not facilities. Not "gameday environment." Not girls. Not stadium. It's early PT and we can offer that.

If you recall, the Gators under Zook were similar to this team. 8-5, 8-5, 7-5 from '02-'04. Zook capitalized on the offer of early PT and recruited his *** off and Meyer came in and cleaned up with a lot of his recruits. If we can haul in some good classes, we'll be fine. Golden, IMO, will rise or fall on last year's recruits and the next couple classes.

A good haul this year and next, and the development of the current freshman, and we'll be fine. Seriously.
 
Because most of our fans live in a fantasy world. They refuse to believe that our roster was as bad as it was (it was beyond terrible). I think any level headed fan knew this was going to take some time to correct.

On defense we have 1 Sr who makes a big contribution (McGee), we have only 1 Jr who isn't a JAG or worse, Porter, and he's been hurt he whole year. Think about that for a second.
 
drifters1234 said:
sebastian91 said:
USNAVYCANE said:
Stop acting like this is 00-04 canes teams
Click to expand...

Is that meant for the OP? If so, wtf?

Based on what I saw in the spring, the depth chart, and all of the experience on defense getting hoodwinked by Rosenhaus, I thought we would be very fortunate to equal our win total from last year. I legitimately thought that we could see a 2-4 win season based on the roster and schedule. A lot of the so-called experts around the country also had us finishing well down in the Coastal and not even winning 6 games. This team has exceeded my expectations for the season, and the coaching staff, IMO, is performing miracles with what they have to work with. Most fans here don't want to hear that because they need to be instantly gratified and lack any comprehension of reality. They think that "We are Miami!", which is somehow supposed to make us immune to being a crappy team. Guess what? We're a crappy team, and we'll be lucky to win another game this season. Hopefully, we can pull one of these games out and self-impose again. There's little chance, in my mind, of winning 9 games next season. That would be a fantastic result, and Golden should be crowned and given a job for life if he can pull that off.
Click to expand...


This. Golden walked into an abomination from all angles: recruiting, talent, S&C, entitled players, and the icing on the cake, pending sanctions.
Click to expand...

I'm just guessing here, but I think Navy was directing that comment to those who are acting like our roster is stockpiled with talent; not the OP.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top