Roundup on Stephen Morris post-Senior Bowl - NOT PRETTY

[drifters1234]

Anyone who has watched football at the high school and college level for any length of time should know that ANY OTHER QB on our roster, including walk-on's could play the position better. There's more to the position than how you make some of the throws.

The notion that he played because "he gave us the best chance to win" is silly groupthink that denies reality. Many of us who have followed football for a time are aware of practice studs who are worthless on game day and we know of guys who rise to the occasion when it counts for real.

and it's hyperbole of this highest order to say that Gray Crow and the true freshman would have been better.

 

[drifters1234]

Anyone who has watched football at the high school and college level for any length of time should know that ANY OTHER QB on our roster, including walk-on's could play the position better. There's more to the position than how you make some of the throws.

The notion that he played because "he gave us the best chance to win" is silly groupthink that denies reality. Many of us who have followed football for a time are aware of practice studs who are worthless on game day and we know of guys who rise to the occasion when it counts for real.

I hear you ... but I sure haven't seen anything special from RW.

I appreciate your honest response, but we have a huge body of evidence on Morris and very little on Williams, not to mention the others. How bad could they be compared to SM when almost, perhaps every QB we faced appeared more competent.

I've posted before that Don Shula pulled Bob Griese in a game when he was ineffective, I think this is a smarter coaching more to motivate and to prevent meltdown of a QB than to continue down the path of failure. In Morris' case it was worth the look at Williams. Keep in mind that "nothing special" is very likely to be billed as the "guy who gives us the best chance to win" this year.

The popular premise is that Williams "could not beat out Morris." A sub-premise, as I see it, is that Williams would suffer some kind of meltdown based on what, one game? My answer to that is: "What Morris never had more than one meltdown?" We can disagree all day long, but we really don't know because few--if any--of us did not consistently attend practices and there is not enough comparative game performance evidence to fairly compare.

(edit: meltdown might be an inaccurate term, because M was more often just incapable on third down, hence no meltdown)

Exactly - "we don't know" if the younger guys would have been better.

 

[Bennubird]

Wish Steven the absolute best going forward, and I hope that some NFL team gives him a chance to come to camp. He did not have the kind of senior season that we wanted, but there is nothing we can do about that now. Hopefully, if he gets into a camp he can get some good QB coaching and earn a great living in the NFL as a back up. If not, maybe he'll follow Jacory to the CFL. In any case, he's a Cane, and I would like nothing more for him than to see him be highly successful in life.

 

[drifters1234]

It's funny how stuff swings. Below (in bold) is what I said before the season in a now infamous thread. Now I think things may be swinging too far to the other extreme. Isn't

I'm sorry, I think some of that scouting is "seeing what I want to see" or "scout talk." Did that guy really just call StephenMorris a rhythm passer with great anticipation? Even the biggest Morris supporters here acknowledge those as areas for improvement. In fact, that's what will make Morris jump to the next level.

Would be interested in seeing those comments substantiated by actual plays. He's sub-par on crossing routes that are not pre-determined (requiring touch), he's subpar on fade routes (is there even a debate here?) and he was sub-par over the middle. All of those are areas that require anticipation.

Remember, QBs play football with pads on and against a pass rush. Please don't note anticipation or "rhythm" out of a passing camp.

Here's the thread:http://www.canesinsight.com/threads/52108-What-do-you-think-is-Stephen-Morris-s-ceiling/page5

i remember that thread. I was questioning all the hype based on camp throws in the shorts. Morris had a proven record of hitting the long ball over the top, but not much else. People were actually arguing that he's better than Bridgewater, which was comical.

 

[Pecos The Diver]

Knew It.

 

[canermaner]

I was shredded for suggesting morris be sat for a few games after fsu. His mechanics and confidence seemed shot trying to play with his injury. Jmo.

 

[dk72]

Anyone who has watched football at the high school and college level for any length of time should know that ANY OTHER QB on our roster, including walk-on's could play the position better. There's more to the position than how you make some of the throws.

The notion that he played because "he gave us the best chance to win" is silly groupthink that denies reality. Many of us who have followed football for a time are aware of practice studs who are worthless on game day and we know of guys who rise to the occasion when it counts for real.

I hear you ... but I sure haven't seen anything special from RW.

The thing is, we don't need special from RW. We just need someone who efficiently and effectively gets the ball to the playmakers and lets them make plays. That is what Morris did NOT do well. His short and intermediate passes were often off target and/or late, preventing the playmaker from doing his thing.

 

[Chuckles]

Anyone who has watched football at the high school and college level for any length of time should know that ANY OTHER QB on our roster, including walk-on's could play the position better. There's more to the position than how you make some of the throws.

The notion that he played because "he gave us the best chance to win" is silly groupthink that denies reality. Many of us who have followed football for a time are aware of practice studs who are worthless on game day and we know of guys who rise to the occasion when it counts for real.

and it's hyperbole of this highest order to say that Gray Crow and the true freshman would have been better.

Okay, so I'm with hyperbole and you are with presumptive and we're talking over a cold drink. Tell me how you KNOW the others could not have played "better?" Is Morris any kind of a special standard for QB play?

Other than the big arm and the occasional long ball what is it that you saw in Morris' QB play that was so superior to anyone else on our roster? With our receivers would the long ball have been out of the question for the other roster QB's? Have the other QB's never been competent prior to attending the U?

Is it impossible our next true freshman be better than Morris was?

Not trying to be contentious here, just curious as to your reasoning. It's worth discussing, I think. Anyone else want to jump in on this?

 

[BigDikCane]

That 1st round **** got to his head and he didn't put in the work.. f**k him..

 

[Big Sky Cane]

People harping on coaches need to cool their jets. Dude is the same player he always was. He had a nice little three game stretch last year against ****** competition, however, his #'s this year were slightly better with the exception of interceptions. Pre-bowl game he had a higher completion %, higher avg. per completion, same TD's (with 100 less attempts) and that was with a bad ankle injury.

He's just not a good quarterback.....period.

 

[hoops156]

lol d moneys boy

 

[canermaner]

Dude did pretty good at memphis, no? Woulda been nice to give him the game a few times this season, but he has plenty of exp

 

[caneaddict]

the fact remains he had to beat out jeff driskell to win the manning camp, the real qbs were counselors in that camo i.e. Manziel who took 55 tequila shots the night before Morris beat a pack of corpses for the win

 

[LuCane]

People harping on coaches need to cool their jets. Dude is the same player he always was. He had a nice little three game stretch last year against ****** competition, however, his #'s this year were slightly better with the exception of interceptions. Pre-bowl game he had a higher completion %, higher avg. per completion, same TD's (with 100 less attempts) and that was with a bad ankle injury.

He's just not a good quarterback.....period.

I agree he was basically the same QB, which was the disappointment, but I don't agree this was a "better" season just because of the statistics. Putting them into context, we struggled more this year when we needed Morris more. 3rd down was rough. ****, we won a couple games by taking the ball out of his hand. And, yes, I get the ankle injury plays some role.

 

[nystateofmind]

If you think Morris isn't going to be drafted you're crazy. Someone will fall in love with his arm.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

This site has good capsule summaries from the Senior Bowl, daily reviews of every player. I'll link to the North team page because the Canes players were on the North. Otherwise you have to click around a little bit and not all of it is obvious. They still have the rankings from last year in prominent locations:

http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=9291

 

[NY Shyne]

XFL with Ryan Clement

 

[Chuckles]

Anyone who has watched football at the high school and college level for any length of time should know that ANY OTHER QB on our roster, including walk-on's could play the position better. There's more to the position than how you make some of the throws.

The notion that he played because "he gave us the best chance to win" is silly groupthink that denies reality. Many of us who have followed football for a time are aware of practice studs who are worthless on game day and we know of guys who rise to the occasion when it counts for real.

I hear you ... but I sure haven't seen anything special from RW.

I appreciate your honest response, but we have a huge body of evidence on Morris and very little on Williams, not to mention the others. How bad could they be compared to SM when almost, perhaps every QB we faced appeared more competent.

I've posted before that Don Shula pulled Bob Griese in a game when he was ineffective, I think this is a smarter coaching more to motivate and to prevent meltdown of a QB than to continue down the path of failure. In Morris' case it was worth the look at Williams. Keep in mind that "nothing special" is very likely to be billed as the "guy who gives us the best chance to win" this year.

The popular premise is that Williams "could not beat out Morris." A sub-premise, as I see it, is that Williams would suffer some kind of meltdown based on what, one game? My answer to that is: "What Morris never had more than one meltdown?" We can disagree all day long, but we really don't know because few--if any--of us did not consistently attend practices and there is not enough comparative game performance evidence to fairly compare.

(edit: meltdown might be an inaccurate term, because M was more often just incapable on third down, hence no meltdown)

Exactly - "we don't know" if the younger guys would have been better.

We don't know, yet we assume they would be worse? That would be difficult to achieve!

 

[blackvern]

Most coaches don't bench their Senior QB during their senior year... Especially one who started every game the previous year...he played bad at times but didn't play bad enough to warrant a benching..... it's only stupid fan talk.... Maybe a coach like SPurrier would..but most coaches wouldn't... Even if Williams was better then Morris in practice you just don't take out Morris

 

[Chuckles]

Anyone who has watched football at the high school and college level for any length of time should know that ANY OTHER QB on our roster, including walk-on's could play the position better. There's more to the position than how you make some of the throws.

The notion that he played because "he gave us the best chance to win" is silly groupthink that denies reality. Many of us who have followed football for a time are aware of practice studs who are worthless on game day and we know of guys who rise to the occasion when it counts for real.

it could be equally argued that it's group-think to assume Ryan Williams will play better than Morris. I'm hopeful he'll be better, bc he appears to throw a catchable ball, and from his limited experience seems to read the defense and adjust.

But, I don't buy this nonsense that Golden would risk his career purely out of some perceived loyalty to seniors.

I'm not getting it that group-think is involved seems to me that more favor the notion that the Morris gives us the best chance to win group plus the Williams didn't beat him out is the majority opinion.

I agree it's nonsense to think that Golden would risk his career purely out of some perceived loyalty to seniors. The group-think comes into play when coaches actually believe player A is better than player B when the comparison is not fairly determined, and the subordinates disagree and don't speak up or are caught up in the leader's point of view.

I made the point earlier that many great players were initially overlooked by coaches only to later prove themselves when given the opportunity to display their talent. Replies to my examples were that they were the exception to the rule. Without posting an "exception to the rule" every day to further my point and refuting that player X still in college, is no player HOF is an unbalanced measure I did not get the support I expected with a long list of other "exceptions."

How about you former players out there, do coaches sometimes have "blind spots" towards some players?