Post Game Recap: UNC

[Memnon]

 

[One9]

At some point UNC guys are gonna have to start donating to the Canes Connection for the annual boosts we give their draft stocks.

 

[Seeker]

That’s not all TVD can do & that’s not all he does, that’s just a simplified board narrative that gets repeated because most people have no idea what his reads actually are.

The majority of his throws aren’t even 1st read in the progressions.

What does he do well as a QB besides what I said?

 

[gogeta4]

Also I’ve seen 6 total threads on TVD & Kam, but not one single thread on Jaden Davis...

What’s up with that?

once they have dug their heels in ...its over.

Kam has had them turn against him..

Last year Keontra Smith was terrible but all u heard about was Flagg Flagg Flagg...rinse an repeat we been going thru the same thing for over a decade on here.

 

[gogeta4]

At some point UNC guys are gonna have to start donating to the Canes Connection for the annual boosts we give their draft stocks.

have literally gotten 4 or 5 guys drafted above their grades ont heir film against us alone.

 

[flips]

jaden davis played the game of his life against a&m, and i'll forever be grateful to him for that. he's just reverting back to the mean. i don't understand y davonte brown isn't getting more burn. hopefully that changes next week

 

[RedSquare]

I’m probably viewed by many as a TVD apologist, I don’t think so, but I get why people would say that because I don’t bash him in the same vein as I would some others, say a Malik Rosier for instance.

Because even last night, TVD played well enough to win, but the issue is that the mistakes he makes become amplified because his margin of error is very slim in order for our team to win. We’re not well Coached enough, or talented enough to where we can win in spite of QB play. We win when TVD is perfect, when he’s not on, we lose. Therefore, the brunt of everything else ends up falling on his shoulders even when everything isn’t necessarily always his fault.

His biggest issue right now is DC’s have been dropping LB’s/Safety’s in coverage shells on him & reading his eyes, that’s what’s causing his picks on underneath routes. He’s not seeing the Rover & expecting for them to either drift or play outside leverage, so his windows aren’t really there on the intermediate seam routes, but he’s throwing it anyway.

The majority of TVD’s success is coming from outside one on one matchups where our guys are getting open against Zones with their route running, but when they drop back in Quarters & dare TVD to throw it in traffic, he just won’t take what the Defense gives him & check the ball down. He’s ignoring the Hot route looking to make a big play & it’s costing him in the long run.

But I always caution people to be careful with their hasty bench TVD takes, because if people think QB play is bad now it can be much worse. I know you’re an Emory guy, but I don’t think he’s ready & might not be for another year or 2. Small sample size obviously, but the game will have to slow down for him before he can be expected to operate this Offense at the same level & not have a significant drop off in play. The playbook would basically be cut in half if he had to start.

This + 1,000

You and I are seeing it the exact same way. Agree on how teams are defending TVD. But that leads me to coaching questions:

1) my first reaction to watching every one of TVD’s “errant” throws this season on tape: why aren’t we engaging with our checkdowns? The quicks/flairs/floods/stops etc. are basically all there. I am absolutely questioning how this is being coached. Yes, Dawson is pushing him to drive the ball, and that will lead to some clunkers. but easy first downs to guys by themselves in the curl to flats win games. Full stop.

2) The margin of error point is something I have noticed as well. This is an offense philosophically designed so that the QB shouldn’t have to be Dan Marino. It’s built around a strong OL and a deep RB room. Why still do we have the burden so heavily on the QB?

3) The offense is missing the QB’s best friend, the TE. We have our z-slot (ie, Restrepo), doing things in route concepts that a TE should be doing. Not fair to either X or TVD or the rest of the offense.

4) Yes, I am an Emory fan and excited to see his development. He has legit upside. But you said it, he’s not ready to start for a team that’s this dysfunctional and neurotic. It’s not fair to him or anyone else, and besides, QB position is not the core problem as you have noted.

And finally, …. If all what you’re saying makes you a TVD apologist? Well then, so be it. I have your back, my brother.

 

[Hurracanes]

They didn't quit. Not for one second.

I don't see a team deflated by the Ga Tech debacle- I think, for some reason, many of you are hoping for that

Two things about the secondary:

- It's a work in progress - not a secret. Guidry's defense was always going to put stress on it and that was known from the start. And as for the "freelancing " on the back end - I seem to remember it being said that Guidry's scheme allowed them to "play free. Not think too much and just play". Well, that's surely what it looks like back there. Not much thinking..

- The DLine doesn't help the secondary. Losing Mesidor really hurt. They played much better in the first half and then couldn't keep up the level of play. I saw Moten standing on the sidelines... why isn't he playing?

People don’t want to accept this is part of process. It’s called growing pains. They think you can turn into a contender over night. Win 8/9 games, develop the young kids who look very promising and build momentum into next season.

 

[gogeta4]

This + 1,000

You and I are seeing it the exact same way. Agree on how teams are defending TVD. But that leads me to coaching questions:

1) my first reaction to watching every one of TVD’s “errant” throws this season on tape: why aren’t we engaging with our checkdowns? The quicks/flairs/floods/stops etc. are basically all there. I am absolutely questioning how this is being coached. Yes, Dawson is pushing him to drive the ball, and that will lead to some clunkers. but easy first downs to guys by themselves in the curl to flats win games. Full stop.

2) The margin of error point is something I have noticed as well. This is an offense philosophically designed so that the QB shouldn’t have to be Dan Marino. It’s built around a strong OL and a deep RB room. Why still do we have the burden so heavily on the QB?

3) The offense is missing the QB’s best friend, the TE. We have our z-slot (ie, Restrepo), doing things in route concepts that a TE should be doing. Not fair to either X or TVD or the rest of the offense.

4) Yes, I am an Emory fan and excited to see his development. He has legit upside. But you said it, he’s not ready to start for a team that’s this dysfunctional and neurotic. It’s not fair to him or anyone else, and besides, QB position is not the core problem as you have noted.

And finally, …. If all what you’re saying makes you a TVD apologist? Well then, so be it. I have your back, my brother.

Check downs are there for the take and just doesnt take it...

I think that is playing for the big play or whatever is two fold with him and the oc.

Picks last week against GA tech he had check down guys as well...**** going back to MIAMI OH

 

[hoops156]

once they have dug their heels in ...its over.

Kam has had them turn against him..

Last year Keontra Smith was terrible but all u heard about was Flagg Flagg Flagg...rinse an repeat we been going thru the same thing for over a decade on here.

everyone talked about how we miss Kam when he got hurt and now, move on from him

 

[NC_Canes_11]

“D line is elite against the run”
“This team is so much better at tackling”

Every year Carolina destroys any positive narratives about Miami’s defense.

 

[Calinative]

Check downs are there for the take and just doesnt take it...

I think that is playing for the big play or whatever is two fold with him and the oc.

Picks last week against GA tech he had check down guys as well...**** going back to MIAMI OH

on at least like 7 plays yesterday you'd see a wide *** open RB on plays where TVDs first read clearly wasn't open because he was holding on to the ball for hella long. But in those situations the RB is always going the opposite way TVD is drifting and looking. I don't think he's unwilling to get past his 1st read, though he absolutely sticks on them too long sometimes or just forces it if its like a 3rd down and he wants to throw to X. But idk how many times we have a wide open RB going the opposite direction TVD is looking after like 4 whole *** seconds.. Just seems pointless. Like if his first two reads are on the right, we need to have the RB check down on that side or TVD will never even think about looking for check down.

 

[Calinative]

everyone talked about how we miss Kam when he got hurt and now, move on from him

Because in two plays after he was back he blew the game winning TD against GTech, and blew AT LEAST one TD against UNC for the exact same thing - refusing to play his assignment deep.

 

[Calinative]

I know you may not think that but a lot this board has given Mario a pass to even be competent. we dont need to win the ACC this year but we shouldn't be this where we dont look improved at all once the g5 **** cans went away. we made mistakes against ATM but TVD and O bailed us out and put It on atm (turnover issues were present there and still couldn't run the ball). it was a great win and I gave a ton of credit to the staff for that game and not pulling an MTSU again.

against p5 off a bye, we looked like **** from a coaching aspect, game plan aspect, to on field performance against a really bad tech team at home. then go to UNC and the same issues are present (no run game, penalties, turnovers, coaching gaffes)

The thing is we absolutely look far better than last year. Anyone pretending we don't isn't watching. The biggest problem has been turnovers. But like it's not just coaching. You can say it's dumb as **** what we did against GTech, but it's still on the player not to fumble and the ref to call a guy down down. It's on TVD not to just stare down a WR and throw it to him in the redzone like 2 times. It's on Matt Lee not to have like 6 **** snaps yesterday one resulting in a turnover. It's on Parrish not fumbling at the 1 yard line. TVD does make horrible mistakes. A lot of that **** just isn't coaching. That's not to say there aren't also coaching problems. But like over the last 2 weeks we're -7 turnover margin and lost by 13 total points.

We absolutely need to clean up a lot. We need younger guys to step the **** up. We need our studs to actually make plays. But Coaching isn't responsible for ALL these turnovers. And a -7 turnover margin through two weeks WILL result in 2 losses. It's just too much to overcome. And honestly I think coaching was a far bigger problem against GTech than yesterday, and thats without factoring in the end of the game knee decision...

 

[JamesQuall]

People don’t want to accept this is part of process. It’s called growing pains. They think you can turn into a contender over night. Win 8/9 games, develop the young kids who look very promising and build momentum into next season.

I really like you as a poster. I respect your opinion but I couldn’t disagree more on the bolded part.

This has been proved false year in and year out by every coach that is above average. The list of teams that experience a year 2 boom is a long list.

Now for my opinion. Granted it’s very clouded by anger and disappointment at the moment but the entire issue is Mario and his stubborn as a mule self. I want to believe in him but he keeps finding ways to dig deeper seemingly with each passing week. With NIL and the transfer portal his process is outdated. Having to rely on having a good season to break the recruiting barrier is a seemingly fools errand.

We shouldn’t need a top 5 roster to beat the likes of GT and UNC on a consistent basis.

 

[hoops156]

The thing is we absolutely look far better than last year. Anyone pretending we don't isn't watching. The biggest problem has been turnovers. But like it's not just coaching. You can say it's dumb as **** what we did against GTech, but it's still on the player not to fumble and the ref to call a guy down down. It's on TVD not to just stare down a WR and throw it to him in the redzone like 2 times. It's on Matt Lee not to have like 6 **** snaps yesterday one resulting in a turnover. It's on Parrish not fumbling at the 1 yard line. TVD does make horrible mistakes. A lot of that **** just isn't coaching. That's not to say there aren't also coaching problems. But like over the last 2 weeks we're -7 turnover margin and lost by 13 total points.

We absolutely need to clean up a lot. We need younger guys to step the **** up. We need our studs to actually make plays. But Coaching isn't responsible for ALL these turnovers. And a -7 turnover margin through two weeks WILL result in 2 losses. It's just too much to overcome. And honestly I think coaching was a far bigger problem against GTech than yesterday, and thats without factoring in the end of the game knee decision...

I agree w looking better than last year. agreed on coaching more of an issue against tech than UNC but still some gaffes but that'll never go away overall.

 

[CaneThang2020]

Respect. Great post and you’re 95% spot on.

I do disagree with the notion that the season is over if we lose vs Clemson. If we get to 8 regular season wins AND can close with a bowl win….9-4 is considered a success in Year 2.

If we’re all being honest…..heading into the Clemson week, 95% of the board had us at 4-2. Losses to both A&M and UNC.

All we have to do is go 4-2 on the 2nd half of the season and we’re on track.

 

[Memnon]

Respect. Great post and you’re 95% spot on.

I do disagree with the notion that the season is over if we lose vs Clemson. If we get to 8 regular season wins AND can close with a bowl win….9-4 is considered a success in Year 2.

If we’re all being honest…..heading into the Clemson week, 95% of the board had us at 4-2. Losses to both A&M and UNC.

All we have to do is go 4-2 on the 2nd half of the season and we’re on track.

Easier said than done...

& I can assure you, if we lose at home to Clemson, we’re not closing out the season on a strong note.

We lose to Clemson, the wheels of this thing will come completely off & the NC ST, FSU & LVille games will be down the drain.

Take that to the Bank & deposit it. There is no scenario where we go from 4-3, to 9-3 or 8-4.

 

[Hoyacane1620]

I’m probably viewed by many as a TVD apologist, I don’t think so, but I get why people would say that because I don’t bash him in the same vein as I would some others, say a Malik Rosier for instance.

Because even last night, TVD played well enough to win, but the issue is that the mistakes he makes become amplified because his margin of error is very slim in order for our team to win. We’re not well Coached enough, or talented enough to where we can win in spite of QB play. We win when TVD is perfect, when he’s not on, we lose. Therefore, the brunt of everything else ends up falling on his shoulders even when everything isn’t necessarily always his fault.

His biggest issue right now is DC’s have been dropping LB’s/Safety’s in coverage shells on him & reading his eyes, that’s what’s causing his picks on underneath routes. He’s not seeing the Rover & expecting for them to either drift or play outside leverage, so his windows aren’t really there on the intermediate seam routes, but he’s throwing it anyway.

The majority of TVD’s success is coming from outside one on one matchups where our guys are getting open against Zones with their route running, but when they drop back in Quarters & dare TVD to throw it in traffic, he just won’t take what the Defense gives him & check the ball down. He’s ignoring the Hot route looking to make a big play & it’s costing him in the long run.

But I always caution people to be careful with their hasty bench TVD takes, because if people think QB play is bad now it can be much worse. I know you’re an Emory guy, but I don’t think he’s ready & might not be for another year or 2. Small sample size obviously, but the game will have to slow down for him before he can be expected to operate this Offense at the same level & not have a significant drop off in play. The playbook would basically be cut in half if he had to start.

I think TVD knows he should take the check downs more. He said as much last night after the game when asked specifically about one interception

 

[E1k]

YEP.

And …. Let me say something on TVD, and QB’s in general.

We have seen great Qb play from TVD on multiple occasions. He’s made NFL throws, come up with big plays, and shown moxie where he needed to. Every game? No? Every throw? Please.

BUT …. Great Qb play in games is kind of like an IQ test: you can’t fake it. If you score as a genius on an IQ test, and the next day you score as a moron. It doesn’t mean you’re a moron. Because morons never could score as a genius, no matter how lucky they get. The psychiatrists all will tell you, it’s all about the high score, stupid!

For a QB, it’s sort of the same. when you see things like Tvd throwing for a zillion TD’s against TAM, or hitting that 4 route to Jacoby where he stands in and gets roadgraded, but still hits the blade of grass he was aiming for, you can’t say he sucks. Bad qb’s don’t make those kinds of plays, ever. Much less on multiple occasions.

What it means is that you have a talented QB that isn’t consistently playing to a level he should. caleb williams single handily pick sixed his team to an L last night. Drake Maye looked like kirby freeman in the first half last night against an average secondary.

Neither of those guys suck. Neither does TVD.

Asking wether Tvd is a good or bad Qb, or if he has “it” at this point in his career, (whatever that means to message board fans), is asking the wrong question. The question we should be asking, if we think about this like a logical and knowledgeable coach would, is WHY does a guy with NFL arm skills and size, who works hard, holds himself to high standard, and often shows great play, have the sort of lapses and in game performance issues that he does?

You get to that answer, then you’re on to something meaningful.

Top 5 post this season