Places to knock down for stadium

[rok]

USF ‘going to’ build on-campus football stadium, board of trustees chair says

Will Weatherford made the announcement during a groundbreaking ceremony for the Bulls’ indoor practice facility.

www.tampabay.com

 

[rok]

The upper decks are steeper as well.

There's no comparison here. The seats in Seattle have you on top of the action.

Hard Rock stadium, the current name of the Dolphins stadium, is built on a Tequesta Indian burial ground that was surrounded by Seminole tribe artifacts. The Tequesta Indians had used the site about 800 A.D. and the Seminole Indians in the mid-19th Century. Now, the Seminole Tribe of Florida is paying a reported $250 million over 18 years for the right to name the stadium after their Hard Rock-owned casinos.

In the Orange Bowl, the Miami Dolphins won two Super Bowls, played in 5, had 14 playoff wins and a 63% win percentage. The Dolphins were the winningest franchise in all of sports while playing in the Orange Bowl.

Since moving to their current stadium in 1987, the Miami Dolphins have had zero Super Bowl appearances, only six playoff victories, twelve head coaches and a 49% win-percentage. The Dolphins went to the Super Bowl four months before digging up the remains, and they haven’t been back since.

The Miami Hurricanes football team has won 5 National Championships and all of them happened while playing in the Orange Bowl. (1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001). The Hurricanes won 80% of their games since 1983 at the Orange Bowl, but since moving to Hard Rock Stadium in 2008, the Hurricanes have only had one bowl win and have only won 37.5% of their games. 61 of the 65 Power 5 programs have more bowl wins over that span. Prior to that, Miami had a solid 18-13 bowl-game record.

The weird reversal of fortune has been the Marlins, who won two World Series in the stadium and had a better winning percentage, before moving to the site of the old Orange Bowl.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

They may be closer, but the football field is still significantly further away. Soccer fields are over 60 feet wider than American football fields. Add to that fact that you have to account for sideline accommodations like benches and so forth, and there’s no way that you can get the seats closer for American football. I’m not sure if I’m making sense here but that’s how I visualize it.

Let me give you some numerical context.

Per the rules of soccer, field-size can vary (kinda like baseball). The minimum size of a soccer pitch is 50 yards wide by 100 yards long. The maximum size of a soccer pitch is 100 yards wide by 130 yards long. MLS requires at least 70 yards wide by 110 yards long.

An American football playing surface is 53.33 yards wide by 120 yards long (including end zones).

So when Joe Robbie built the stadium to host both football and World Cup, he went for the maximum size. The length of the field was fine (didn't have to add much to the end zones to go from 120 yards to 130 yards), but he made it MUCH wider to accommodate the 100 yard width favored in international play. Even when you account for the non-playing parts of the sidelines, which are bigger for football than soccer, it was still a wider field than he would have built if he was only building for soccer.

Here are the most recent purpose-built soccer pitches in the US:

Nashville (2022) - 75 yards wide by 120 yards long
Columbus (2021) - 75 yards wide by 120 yards long
Austin (2021) - 75 yards wide by 115 yards long
Cincinnati (2021) - 75 yards wide by 110 yards long
Minnesota (2019) - 75 yards wide by 115 yards long
DC (2018) - 75 yards wide by 115 yards long
LAFC (2018) - 75 yards wide by 115 yards long
Orlando (2017) - 75 yards wide by 120 yards long

And here are MLS teams that play in football stadiums in the US:

Charlotte (2022) - unknown pitch size (football stadium opened in 1996)
Atlanta (2017) - 75 yards wide by 115 yards long (football stadium opened in 2017)
Seattle (2009) - 74 yards wide by 114 yards long (football stadium opened in 2002)
New England (2002) - 75 yards wide by 115 yards long (football stadium opened in 2002)
Chicago (1998) - 74 yards wide by 115 yards long (football stadium opened in 1924)

Ultimately, while New England and Atlanta are the only 2 football stadiums that contemplated football/soccer when built, nearly every field is the same width (except for evil Yankee Stadium, which actually falls below the MLS requirements with a 68 yard wide pitch, regardless of the lies they tell about it being 70 yards wide).

So the soccer playing surfaces are 22 yards wider. (75 yards vs. 53 yards, rounded) Just under 11 yards on each side. When you factor in the wider NFL/college football sidelines, it's very comparable.

The original problem was that Joe Robbie built a stadium to accomodate a 100 yard wide pitch, which has been partially addressed by filling in the sideline seats in the lower bowl (building more seating closer to the field).

 

[JD08]

There's no comparison here. The seats in Seattle have you on top of the action.

Hard Rock stadium, the current name of the Dolphins stadium, is built on a Tequesta Indian burial ground that was surrounded by Seminole tribe artifacts. The Tequesta Indians had used the site about 800 A.D. and the Seminole Indians in the mid-19th Century. Now, the Seminole Tribe of Florida is paying a reported $250 million over 18 years for the right to name the stadium after their Hard Rock-owned casinos.

In the Orange Bowl, the Miami Dolphins won two Super Bowls, played in 5, had 14 playoff wins and a 63% win percentage. The Dolphins were the winningest franchise in all of sports while playing in the Orange Bowl.

Since moving to their current stadium in 1987, the Miami Dolphins have had zero Super Bowl appearances, only six playoff victories, twelve head coaches and a 49% win-percentage. The Dolphins went to the Super Bowl four months before digging up the remains, and they haven’t been back since.

The Miami Hurricanes football team has won 5 National Championships and all of them happened while playing in the Orange Bowl. (1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001). The Hurricanes won 80% of their games since 1983 at the Orange Bowl, but since moving to Hard Rock Stadium in 2008, the Hurricanes have only had one bowl win and have only won 37.5% of their games. 61 of the 65 Power 5 programs have more bowl wins over that span. Prior to that, Miami had a solid 18-13 bowl-game record.

The weird reversal of fortune has been the Marlins, who won two World Series in the stadium and had a better winning percentage, before moving to the site of the old Orange Bowl.

All I did was point out that it looks less spread out because the upper decks are steeper. The lower bowl has less of an angle than the upper.

Having sat in steep upper deck seats in BB&T, it kinda freaks me out. I'd probably pay a little more for lower deck.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Rok you’re displeasure with hard rock is certainly noted but looking at this illustration you provided HRS is significantly closer in the endzones than Seattle. Seattle is closer, not by by much on sidelines. You’re reaching with this one

But you're missing the point here.

Yes, Hard Rock built "closer" seats on the sidelines and in the end zones. Great. For people in those seats.

But the rest of the stadium architecture, including the incline or angle of the stadium's "rise" to higher seating, was created when the stadium was orginally constructed for world cup soccer.

So the REST of the seats are just as far away from the center of the field as they have always been. ON AVERAGE, the fans in Seattle are closer to the field than the AVERAGE fan at Hard Rock.

Putting a few front-row seats closer to the field doesn't allow us to go back to the 1980s to rebuild Hard Rock so that ALL of the fans are closer to the field.

 

[canecrazy23]

There's no comparison here. The seats in Seattle have you on top of the action.

Hard Rock stadium, the current name of the Dolphins stadium, is built on a Tequesta Indian burial ground that was surrounded by Seminole tribe artifacts. The Tequesta Indians had used the site about 800 A.D. and the Seminole Indians in the mid-19th Century. Now, the Seminole Tribe of Florida is paying a reported $250 million over 18 years for the right to name the stadium after their Hard Rock-owned casinos.

In the Orange Bowl, the Miami Dolphins won two Super Bowls, played in 5, had 14 playoff wins and a 63% win percentage. The Dolphins were the winningest franchise in all of sports while playing in the Orange Bowl.

Since moving to their current stadium in 1987, the Miami Dolphins have had zero Super Bowl appearances, only six playoff victories, twelve head coaches and a 49% win-percentage. The Dolphins went to the Super Bowl four months before digging up the remains, and they haven’t been back since.

The Miami Hurricanes football team has won 5 National Championships and all of them happened while playing in the Orange Bowl. (1983, 1987, 1989, 1991, 2001). The Hurricanes won 80% of their games since 1983 at the Orange Bowl, but since moving to Hard Rock Stadium in 2008, the Hurricanes have only had one bowl win and have only won 37.5% of their games. 61 of the 65 Power 5 programs have more bowl wins over that span. Prior to that, Miami had a solid 18-13 bowl-game record.

The weird reversal of fortune has been the Marlins, who won two World Series in the stadium and had a better winning percentage, before moving to the site of the old Orange Bowl.

 

[canecrazy23]

But you're missing the point here.

Yes, Hard Rock built "closer" seats on the sidelines and in the end zones. Great. For people in those seats.

But the rest of the stadium architecture, including the incline or angle of the stadium's "rise" to higher seating, was created when the stadium was orginally constructed for world cup soccer.

So the REST of the seats are just as far away from the center of the field as they have always been. ON AVERAGE, the fans in Seattle are closer to the field than the AVERAGE fan at Hard Rock.

Putting a few front-row seats closer to the field doesn't allow us to go back to the 1980s to rebuild Hard Rock so that ALL of the fans are closer to the field.

So your idea is that we need seats closer to the field to create a louder more raucous stadium?

Yeah because Hard Rock doesn't create a loud raucous atmosphere right?

Wrong...

ABC and ESPN College Football analyst Kirk Herbstreit said after working the Virginia Tech and Notre Dame games last season that Hard Rock Stadium was the loudest venue he's ever been in. The same was said by Notre Dame tight end Durham Smythe after Miami's blowout win over the Irish last fall.

 

[rok]

Herbstreit still thinks we need our own stadium. He's been a big proponent of that all along.

 

[rok]

All I did was point out that it looks less spread out because the upper decks are steeper. The lower bowl has less of an angle than the upper.

Having sat in steep upper deck seats in BB&T, it kinda freaks me out. I'd probably pay a little more for lower deck.

I'm with you. Have always been a tad freaked out about that stuff myself.

 

[HRIKN]

USF ‘going to’ build on-campus football stadium, board of trustees chair says

Will Weatherford made the announcement during a groundbreaking ceremony for the Bulls’ indoor practice facility.

www.tampabay.com

Absolutely correct sir. They have the space to build their own stadium. Also, they don't have to get approval from a bunch of politicians and home owners with a stick up their ***. Parking should not be a problem. Auto access to and from the stadium will be the only drawback, but Tampa already deals with traffic for their other stadiums on game days.

 

[rok]

Herbstreit still thinks we need our own stadium. He's been a big proponent of that all along.

Also, we will never, ever recreate the atmosphere for the ND game in 2017. That was a reckoning.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

…we will never, ever recreate the atmosphere for the ND game in 2017...

lies

 

[rok]

lies

We may get close but years from now we'll still be comparing crowds at HRS to the one that night against ND. Gameday on campus, turnover chain hysteria, undefeated, had not beaten ND since 1989. Good luck with that lol. Apparently we never duplicated the 1989 ND crowd before leaving the OB. That was also a near perfect scenario.

 

[rok]

What is your argument exactly? Are you refuting any of the facts presented by Original Cane, or are you one of these people who believe that if HRS is good enough to host the Super Bowl, it should be good enough for UM?

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

…..we never duplicated the 1989 ND crowd before leaving the OB.…

More lies..

 

[rok]

More lies..

There were some whoppers since 89 but that's widely accepted as the loudest game aside from 85 Bears. Where the lie?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

So your idea is that we need seats closer to the field to create a louder more raucous stadium?

Yeah because Hard Rock doesn't create a loud raucous atmosphere right?

Wrong...

ABC and ESPN College Football analyst Kirk Herbstreit said after working the Virginia Tech and Notre Dame games last season that Hard Rock Stadium was the loudest venue he's ever been in. The same was said by Notre Dame tight end Durham Smythe after Miami's blowout win over the Irish last fall.

Noooooo. That's not what I said. Reading (comprehension) Is Fundamental.

What I DID say is that the proximity of the closest sideline seats is not determinative of the stadium atmosphere. And nobody is saying this is all about "crowd noise", it is also the atmosphere. Put another way, if you felt like you were FAAAAAAR away from the action when you were sitting in the 400s section watching the Dolphins in the 1990s, you are EXACTLY THE SAME DISTANCE from the field in the 2020s, regardless of the fact that we built a handful of seats closer to the field. That's just math, it's inarguable.

But sure. Yap on and on and on about something that Herbstreit said 5 years ago. I don't give a ****e. The fact remains, Joe Robbie built the stadium to be able to hold football AND baseball AND World Cup back in the 1980s. Adding a few extra rows of seats down the sidelines doesn't change that.

 

[RightSaidFred]

Ruiz and Mas need to buy Coral Gables High School, bulldoze it, and build a stadium there. There are many other high schools but there is only one Miami Hurricanes football team. Those kids can go somewhere else.

And as for Coral Gables permits, this is Miami Dade ... just buy off a few key votes and you can get anything you want. Grease a couple palms and you're good.

 

[canecrazy23]

What is your argument exactly? Are you refuting any of the facts presented by Original Cane, or are you one of these people who believe that if HRS is good enough to host the Super Bowl, it should be good enough for UM?

Nah I just thought it was a funny Gif for you. Yes I love Hard Rock but not nearly as much as I miss the OB.

 

[canecrazy23]

Noooooo. That's not what I said. Reading (comprehension) Is Fundamental.

What I DID say is that the proximity of the closest sideline seats is not determinative of the stadium atmosphere. And nobody is saying this is all about "crowd noise", it is also the atmosphere. Put another way, if you felt like you were FAAAAAAR away from the action when you were sitting in the 400s section watching the Dolphins in the 1990s, you are EXACTLY THE SAME DISTANCE from the field in the 2020s, regardless of the fact that we built a handful of seats closer to the field. That's just math, it's inarguable.

But sure. Yap on and on and on about something that Herbstreit said 5 years ago. I don't give a ****e. The fact remains, Joe Robbie built the stadium to be able to hold football AND baseball AND World Cup back in the 1980s. Adding a few extra rows of seats down the sidelines doesn't change that.

Nice rebuttal