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Pg Q Article: Al Golden's Clock is Ticking

miamimike01 said:
Hegemon said:
CaneAlmighty said:
poncho0091 said:
CaneAlmighty said:
He's selectively using stats to favor his position. As if less then 5 losses is supposed to be some time of litmus test for future success.
It's not.
I could very well use Golden records vs above .500 teams his first 3 years which are better than Butch's at Miami and Saban's at Michigan State their first 3 years respectively.
Or wins vs teams with 6 losses or less which is also better then the above mentioned.
Actually those would be better indicators since we're judging comparably against coaches that faced similar rebuild jobs during the first 3 years.
Likewise, Coker's record vs less then 5 loss teams is one of the best ever.

The problem with that 4 loss or less criteria is that if you beat a 4 loss team and they end up with 5 losses as a result it doesn't get counted in your favor but if you loss it's used against you.
They beat UNC last year and they end up with 5 losses and Vishnu and his sheep would spout off that Golden is 1-21 vs 4 loss teams.
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I don't have a problem with you defending Golden, but your stance on this particular item is sad. First off, you keep saying if we didn't beat x team, they would have less than 5 losses. So what you are saying is in the world of stats, us beating the team no longer counts? Since when?

Second, the fact that they had 4 losses in the first place shows they were an average or slightly better than average team.

Third, the record against those less than 5 loss teams is 1-22. Is 23 attempts not enough for you? ****, I'll throw a bone in there and give Al 5 free wins that didn't happen just so you can see what it looks like. 6-22. Does 6-22 look good to you? No it still sucks. Even if he got credit for the wins against teams that would have been less than 5 losses if our win against them didn't count, it still sucks.

Seriously, if anything, Al is a bigger cherry picker of stats than anyone on this board. This guy only finds stats that make him look good. Really man, I don't care if you defend him. He's built some good graces because of NCAA mess, he seems like a good guy, and he's done a pretty solid job of recruiting, but to argue this stat is ludicrous.
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again anyone using Golden's First 2 years at Temple against him has some very serious confirmation bias problems.
Funny how they like to use his losses at Temple against him but when someone points out the defensive rankings they were able to achieve in years 4 and 5 when they scuff at it and discredit it by saying he did it against MAC competition. So which is it, are we using his Temple results or not?
Regardless, like I said, Vishnu and other are just taking this arbitrary number of 4 losses and condemning to a future of poor results.
I repeat Golden as a better record his first 3 years (.370) here vs. teams over .500 then both Butch(.310) and Saban(.310) when he was at Michigan State. What does that tell you?
It tells you that coaches that are considered among the best struggled to beat BETTER teams during REBUILDING years.
Did anyone think that Butch and Saban were both condemned to have poor results vs above .500 teams cause they had poor records against their 1st 3 years? Of course not or only dumbass fans would have.
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HE'S 0-10 AT MIAMI AND HIS LOSSES ARE AGAINST TEAMS HE HAS HAD SIGNIFICANTLY MORE TALENT THEN.

STOP BEING AN ENABLER. PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE ONES WHO HOLD THIS PROGRAM BACK WITH LUDICROUS POSITIONS.

Re-read everything this guy has posted. AGAIN.
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You sir, have grossly OVERESTIMATED the talent level at Miami currently.
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I agree, sir. In a couple years, Golden will have stacked this place with so much talent that our DEs will be covering WRs with ease.
 
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Angry Ibis said:
I support Golden and there is a lot of good and bad in that article, but one thing is clear, he brought the current mess on himself.
- Not the loss -- we will lose games again, some will be ugly -- it happens
- Not the cherry picking stats for him or against him -- stats are almost always misused to show favor it one direction or another
- Not the flirting with PSU --- his alma mater - most can understand this

But the aftermath of the PSU issue is all on him.
- Lack of response
- Lack of energy
- Lack of enthusiasm

Further frustrations:
- Some recruits will decommit and used this time to do it.
- Keeping continuity of the staff may or may not be the best move and he may be waiting for D to get a job elsewhere.

I may not like it, but I can wrap my head around it.

Recommendation:
He needs to reenergize himself and the program right now.

Sure, many will say it is coach speak, used car salesman, fool me once, etc. etc., but it does not matter because he needs to light a spark. Right now. In fairness to the players on the team, that like the seniors, committed to the school and the team and stood by it through the NCAA mess. Those players deserve the loyalty of the process to have a chance to be excited and be great.

If he doesn't get things recharged, he faces a rough end of the recruiting season, a really critical and unforgiving fan base heading into the Spring game and a potentially hostile summer and fall camp.

Question:
Will he answer the bell?
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We meet again... you take a fair and measured approach, though I take issue with some of your points-- not specific to the article you reference as I didn't read it.

Ugly losses do happen. No question. But that's conveniently sweeping ugly loses under the carpet. Consider the "ugly" wins, and loses to teams we were in position to beat, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And others where we outright crapped the bed. I'm not as inclined to give a "pass" in this regard.

Stats- you can always manipulate them to look better, but bad numbers don't lie and we have plenty and two years worth you can't just dismiss or rationalize. This assertion that they can be skewed however you want them to look may work with political polls, but doesn't hold up in defensive statistics.

Flirtation with PSU. I get it. He botched it completely by going on record as saying something to the effect of if asked-- he would be compelled to listen. Bad move. Should've denied it until he couldn't any longer. Which if handled right and he wasn't really offered, no one would've been any the wiser. Rookie move.

Overall, if he cant get himself "motivated" to do the job he was hired to, and he's so distracted or crestfallen over missing out on his dream job, exactly why do we even want him here (kinda supports the animus and vitriol being aimed his way on this board, don't you think?)

I feel like Al is feeling the heat of expectations, and no longer has any cover. His ill-advised flirtation with his alma mater has seriously eroded the considerable goodwill he enjoyed with the fan base, especially after laying an egg down the stretch, ******** the pooch in the bowl game, and refusing to face the realities of our defensive woes and his buddy who heads it up.

I think all of the above DOES MATTER-- and the fact he needs to light a fire under himself tells me more about him and where we are with him than his record. And the record is hardly stellar. I suspect most of what the haters write and say about him is hyperbole, but its not completely off base. He's in over his head, and the weight of expectation and his limited abilities as a head coach, game day coach and CEO are beginning to show. We're at a precipice. I don't like the direction, and am preparing for the worst. I don't think we're on the cusp of greatness-- quite the opposite. We're just beginning the "acceptance" phase out of the "denial" phase and another re-tooling for complete rebuild.

Sorry, if this were a stock, I'd be "selling."
 
Al has demonstrated he could be a great recruiter. He puts forward a great PR face for his team. PSU can use both, yet didn't want him. Why?
 
Hobokane said:
Angry Ibis said:
I support Golden and there is a lot of good and bad in that article, but one thing is clear, he brought the current mess on himself.
- Not the loss -- we will lose games again, some will be ugly -- it happens
- Not the cherry picking stats for him or against him -- stats are almost always misused to show favor it one direction or another
- Not the flirting with PSU --- his alma mater - most can understand this

But the aftermath of the PSU issue is all on him.
- Lack of response
- Lack of energy
- Lack of enthusiasm

Further frustrations:
- Some recruits will decommit and used this time to do it.
- Keeping continuity of the staff may or may not be the best move and he may be waiting for D to get a job elsewhere.

I may not like it, but I can wrap my head around it.

Recommendation:
He needs to reenergize himself and the program right now.

Sure, many will say it is coach speak, used car salesman, fool me once, etc. etc., but it does not matter because he needs to light a spark. Right now. In fairness to the players on the team, that like the seniors, committed to the school and the team and stood by it through the NCAA mess. Those players deserve the loyalty of the process to have a chance to be excited and be great.

If he doesn't get things recharged, he faces a rough end of the recruiting season, a really critical and unforgiving fan base heading into the Spring game and a potentially hostile summer and fall camp.

Question:
Will he answer the bell?
Click to expand...

We meet again... you take a fair and measured approach, though I take issue with some of your points-- not specific to the article you reference as I didn't read it.

Ugly losses do happen. No question. But that's conveniently sweeping ugly loses under the carpet. Consider the "ugly" wins, and loses to teams we were in position to beat, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And others where we outright crapped the bed. I'm not as inclined to give a "pass" in this regard.

Stats- you can always manipulate them to look better, but bad numbers don't lie and we have plenty and two years worth you can't just dismiss or rationalize. This assertion that they can be skewed however you want them to look may work with political polls, but doesn't hold up in defensive statistics.

Flirtation with PSU. I get it. He botched it completely by going on record as saying something to the effect of if asked-- he would be compelled to listen. Bad move. Should've denied it until he couldn't any longer. Which if handled right and he wasn't really offered, no one would've been any the wiser. Rookie move.

Overall, if he cant get himself "motivated" to do the job he was hired to, and he's so distracted or crestfallen over missing out on his dream job, exactly why do we even want him here (kinda supports the animus and vitriol being aimed his way on this board, don't you think?)

I feel like Al is feeling the heat of expectations, and no longer has any cover. His ill-advised flirtation with his alma mater has seriously eroded the considerable goodwill he enjoyed with the fan base, especially after laying an egg down the stretch, ******** the pooch in the bowl game, and refusing to face the realities of our defensive woes and his buddy who heads it up.

I think all of the above DOES MATTER-- and the fact he needs to light a fire under himself tells me more about him and where we are with him than his record. And the record is hardly stellar. I suspect most of what the haters write and say about him is hyperbole, but its not completely off base. He's in over his head, and the weight of expectation and his limited abilities as a head coach, game day coach and CEO are beginning to show. We're at a precipice. I don't like the direction, and am preparing for the worst. I don't think we're on the cusp of greatness-- quite the opposite. We're just beginning the "acceptance" phase out of the "denial" phase and another re-tooling for complete rebuild.

Sorry, if this were a stock, I'd be "selling."
Click to expand...

This cat just gets it.
 
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miamimike01 said:
Do you people have anything else to do other than bash Golden and D'Onofrio?

Please, MOAR threads like this!!

315.jpg
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I'll see what I can do...
 
So in review, and in case you missed it: His career record against teams with less than five losses is 1-22.
 
Hegemon said:
I still can't get over 1-22......WOW
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It really is mind numbing and gets me fired up. Why is this clown the coach here? He has made this program a laughing stock 10 years out from this program fielding one of the best rosters of talent in the history of sports. What the **** is going on down there. Its more than just coaching, it has to be a systemic problem right?
 
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LA'Cane818 said:
Hegemon said:
I still can't get over 1-22......WOW
Click to expand...

It really is mind numbing and gets me fired up. Why is this clown the coach here? He has made this program a laughing stock 10 years out from this program fielding one of the best rosters of talent in the history of sports. What the **** is going on down there. Its more than just coaching, it has to be a systemic problem right?
Click to expand...

294.gif
 
Please. I have no idea why anyone wastes their time reading this drivel. I can't believe the guy is even a Canes fan much less anyone with any particular insight. He is just a more verbose bad fan with an outlet.
 
Not all 4 loss teams are created equal. For example of the 10 four or less loss teams Golden faced 60% won 11 or more games.
Compare that to only 44 % that Shannon faced or 30% Butch faced won 11 or more games.
 
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CaneAlmighty said:
Not all 4 loss teams are created equal. For example of the 10 four or less loss teams Golden faced 60% won 11 or more games.
Compare that to only 44 % that Shannon faced or 30% Butch faced won 11 or more games.
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Not sure what that means, but ok. Throw those teams out and he's 1 -12. Make you feel better?
 
LA'Cane818 said:
CaneAlmighty said:
Not all 4 loss teams are created equal. For example of the 10 four or less loss teams Golden faced 60% won 11 or more games.
Compare that to only 44 % that Shannon faced or 30% Butch faced won 11 or more games.
Click to expand...

Not sure what that means, but ok. Throw those teams out and he's 1 -12. Make you feel better?
Click to expand...

depends.. how many of those 12 were in his first 3-4 seasons a temple?
 
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