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Pat Fitzgerald/Northwestern implosion

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Tony4Miami said:
Unless I missed something, is this really comparable to Penn St, Ohio St and Michigan St scandals??
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Imagine, if you will, a group of men in closed confines, holding you down and then rubbing their genitals on you, getting erections, and I sincerely hope not reaching the end, but can you imagine if they did? Over and over with your teammates watching it?

That’s serious psychological trauma, not to mention the shame and sexual natures of it.

I haven’t even gotten to the other stuff they were doing.
 
Now imagine if one of Pat Fitz's assitants had a non-profit set up to attract at-risk kids to participate in these hazing events.....

This is gross and juvenile. Somehow Penn State managed to navigate something WAY worse and it's like they never really lost a beat. Feel outraged all you want, but at the end of the day, at most there will be a scarificial lamb and Northwestern football will continue on.
 
AtlAtty said:
We admittedly hazed in my fraternity (which did not), but as the Pledge Trainer for 2 semesters, the first thing I told all my pledges is that at no point would they be naked nor would there be anything sexual.
Drinking (supervised) , running, getting food at 2am, cleaning rooms or cleaning the house after the party is all to be expected. But sexual stuff crosses a line and I agree with @Brooklyndee that sexual activities are an excuse for people who get off on that stuff to watch others do it.

Non-perverts never make people do sexual stuff.
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And so immediately ended the brief foray of @nystateofmind into Greek life.

I kid. I kid. He and Kenneth were fine brothers and instrumental in many of the most successful Watermelon Busts in fraternity history.
 
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SWFLHurricane said:
NOTHING compares to that POS Sandusky...and even worse, the QB who walked by and didn't intervene. F- that enabling POS Paterno, who knew about it for yrs...
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I think that is the point. This is hazing. This is not good. Assuming it's true, it's actually really bad. But it is nowhere near Penn State bad....and Penn State got off without much of a penalty....at least not one that has had any real long term or lingering effect and that's the part that makes many of us scroll past stories like this.
 
JHallCanes said:
Agreed

I’ve been around these practices and part of it as well and there’s always that bizarre underlying homoerotic vibe that goes with it and for me, I think it’s beyond disgusting. Some dudes I know aren’t *** but they have a different threshold for that type of thing but I’ve got a zero tolerance policy for it so I’m probably too far to one side of this
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I don't think that anyone, heterosexual OR homosexual, should be subjected to any unwanted "rape humor" at all.


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AtlAtty said:
We admittedly hazed in my fraternity (which did not), but as the Pledge Trainer for 2 semesters, the first thing I told all my pledges is that at no point would they be naked nor would there be anything sexual.
Drinking (supervised) , running, getting food at 2am, cleaning rooms or cleaning the house after the party is all to be expected. But sexual stuff crosses a line and I agree with @Brooklyndee that sexual activities are an excuse for people who get off on that stuff to watch others do it.

Non-perverts never make people do sexual stuff.
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The bold nails it.
 
PIPO said:
They will probably fire him as the “cancel people” and constant talking heads continue to put the pressure on.

Firing achieved, they will move onto the next thing in the news cycle and Pat will latch on to some rehab program under Saban, Day, Smart or someone else before he gets another coaching job.

If DJ Durkin gets a job, and he was literally responsible for killing one of his players, so will Pat.
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None of what you are saying in your second or third paragraphs is wrong.

I just don't understand why "cancel culture" is being targeted here. What was happening at Northwestern is sick and wrong. Is there some "more moderate response" that will not offend the "anti-cancel crowd"?

Should the coach be given a stern talking-to, and then be forced to take sensitivity courses?

In all honesty, everything that happens to Fitzgerald will have been richly deserved due to "looking the other way". I don't have any sympathy for him whatsoever. Maybe he can recover, maybe not, but I'm fine with whatever happens, and maybe it will serve as a cautionary tale for others.

Why do we have to frame things in terms of sympathy for the abusers? Because "abuse used to worse before"? Sure, there are Biblical verses that condone slavery, but at some point we have to move beyond what people did thousands of years ago.

We need to make progress as a society. And not just whine and complain about some people who get hammered because they refused to grow up with the changing times.

Until someone can define what is character-building and cohesive about forced and/or implied sexual assault, I don't want to hear about how poor Pat Fitzgerald is being "cancelled", and I sure as **** don't want to hear 75% of his team defending him because they already endured the assault when they were freshmen.
 
Some great points on this thread and some who don’t get it. First, way different age. **** does not fly at all these days. Next, light hazing is fine, but it can never be racial, sexual, or overly physical. Coaching the Northwestern football team is the least of Fitzgerald’s problems at this point.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
None of what you are saying in your second or third paragraphs is wrong.

I just don't understand why "cancel culture" is being targeted here. What was happening at Northwestern is sick and wrong. Is there some "more moderate response" that will not offend the "anti-cancel crowd"?

Should the coach be given a stern talking-to, and then be forced to take sensitivity courses?

In all honesty, everything that happens to Fitzgerald will have been richly deserved due to "looking the other way". I don't have any sympathy for him whatsoever. Maybe he can recover, maybe not, but I'm fine with whatever happens, and maybe it will serve as a cautionary tale for others.

Why do we have to frame things in terms of sympathy for the abusers? Because "abuse used to worse before"? Sure, there are Biblical verses that condone slavery, but at some point we have to move beyond what people did thousands of years ago.

We need to make progress as a society. And not just whine and complain about some people who get hammered because they refused to grow up with the changing times.

Until someone can define what is character-building and cohesive about forced and/or implied sexual assault, I don't want to hear about how poor Pat Fitzgerald is being "cancelled", and I sure as **** don't want to hear 75% of his team defending him because they already endured the assault when they were freshmen.
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I don't mean to speak for @PIPO, but I took his comment to mean the cadre of people who are constantly looking for "problematic" things.
 
JD08 said:
I don't mean to speak for @PIPO, but I took his comment to mean the cadre of people who are constantly looking for "problematic" things.
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Fair enough. And I wasn't criticizing the great @PIPO , it was more of a response to people mischaracterizing this scandal as "cancel culture".

Pat Fitzgerald should try prison for a couple of years. I heard they do a ton of HYSTERICAL homosexual humor in prison...it's really great for morale...
 
TheOriginalCane said:
None of what you are saying in your second or third paragraphs is wrong.

I just don't understand why "cancel culture" is being targeted here. What was happening at Northwestern is sick and wrong. Is there some "more moderate response" that will not offend the "anti-cancel crowd"?

Should the coach be given a stern talking-to, and then be forced to take sensitivity courses?

In all honesty, everything that happens to Fitzgerald will have been richly deserved due to "looking the other way". I don't have any sympathy for him whatsoever. Maybe he can recover, maybe not, but I'm fine with whatever happens, and maybe it will serve as a cautionary tale for others.

Why do we have to frame things in terms of sympathy for the abusers? Because "abuse used to worse before"? Sure, there are Biblical verses that condone slavery, but at some point we have to move beyond what people did thousands of years ago.

We need to make progress as a society. And not just whine and complain about some people who get hammered because they refused to grow up with the changing times.

Until someone can define what is character-building and cohesive about forced and/or implied sexual assault, I don't want to hear about how poor Pat Fitzgerald is being "cancelled", and I sure as **** don't want to hear 75% of his team defending him because they already endured the assault when they were freshmen.
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Perhaps I should’ve given better context. You make excellent points.

What I meant by “cancelled” is not in the same sense as getting cancelled for the sake of being cancelled for using certain terminology or for having done something 30 years ago.

What I meant by it that the media and others will now go after him until he is canceled out, Fired. People nowadays get off on that. They like to see people fired. Sometimes those people should definitely be fired and others should not.

In the case of Fitzgerald, definitely what went on in that locker seems pretty bad and this justified. I am for letting all the facts comes out. Seems like a lot has merit but also seems like definitely a player or two have an axe to grind. He’s been the HC since 2006 so I wonder if it’s something recent, an isolated situation or a pattern that’s been existing for a long time.

I am for just letting everything play out. The school made a decision and suspended for 2 weeks but that wasn’t enough for some people. Right or wrong, there are people who just want to see others get fired and for the side of laying everything on the table before making a big decision.

Nothing worse than making a decision without all of the details or an emotional decision and many people are all about cancelling people despite the fact or the facts may not be known.
 
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TheU1984 said:
I’m not going to jump all over WBB’s post like everyone else will. I can see where he’s coming from regarding initiations, brotherhood, and bonding. But that BS in the article is none of the above. It’s disgusting.
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These kinds of things do create stable group dynamics. The Marines have the Crucible. Thing is, they all go through it, together. That creates a real bond, not this fake gang rape ****.
 
PIPO said:
Perhaps I should’ve given better context. You make excellent points.

What I meant by “cancelled” is not in the same sense as getting cancelled for the sake of being cancelled for using certain terminology or for having done something 30 years ago.

What I meant by it that the media and others will now go after him until he is canceled out, Fired. People nowadays get off on that. They like to see people fired. Sometimes those people should definitely be fired and others should not.

In the case of Fitzgerald, definitely what went on in that locker seems pretty bad and this justified. I am for letting all the facts comes out. Seems like a lot has merit but also seems like definitely a player or two have an axe to grind. He’s been the HC since 2006 so I wonder if it’s something recent, an isolated situation or a pattern that’s been existing for a long time.

I am for just letting everything play out. The school made a decision and suspended for 2 weeks but that wasn’t enough for some people. Right or wrong, there are people who just want to see others get fired and for the side of laying everything on the table before making a big decision.

Nothing worse than making a decision without all of the details or an emotional decision and many people are all about cancelling people despite the fact or the facts may not be known.
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It's all good, my friend, I'm not mad at ya. I responded to what @JD08 said, and we probably just missed a bit on the timing.

I will tell you this, from past experience in the Greek system...hazing tends to...grow...over the years. It's not usually some multi-decade consistent-level of a thing. One set of freshmen will go through **** one year, and then they try to figure out EVEN WORSE STUFF to do to the next group of freshmen. Until people call an end to the downward spiral, or something truly horrifying happens, the hazing incidents seem to get worse over time.

I was in a fraternity that was very mild in its "hazing". I was NEVER forced to drink (I assure you, it was a personal choice). I was never forced to strip naked or do anything involving heterosexual or homosexual forced sexual assault. I was never hit or paddled, nor did I ever hit or paddle anyone else. Did I find Animal House hilarious? Sure. But that doesn't mean I did all that stuff or allowed all that stuff to happen.

And I quote Animal House incessantly.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
It's all good, my friend, I'm not mad at ya. I responded to what @JD08 said, and we probably just missed a bit on the timing.

I will tell you this, from past experience in the Greek system...hazing tends to...grow...over the years. It's not usually some multi-decade consistent-level of a thing. One set of freshmen will go through **** one year, and then they try to figure out EVEN WORSE STUFF to do to the next group of freshmen. Until people call an end to the downward spiral, or something truly horrifying happens, the hazing incidents seem to get worse over time.

I was in a fraternity that was very mild in its "hazing". I was NEVER forced to drink (I assure you, it was a personal choice). I was never forced to strip naked or do anything involving heterosexual or homosexual forced sexual assault. I was never hit or paddled, nor did I ever hit or paddle anyone else. Did I find Animal House hilarious? Sure. But that doesn't mean I did all that stuff or allowed all that stuff to happen.

And I quote Animal House incessantly.
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So no Old School cement block tied to your *******?
 
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