OT (But Not Really): NCAA - Is it all Tumbling Down?

[cowboycane]

http://grantland.com/features/ed-obannon-ncaa-trial-lawsuit/

This is...and always has been....what I find most compelling:

"One of the ugly moral truths about all our sports is that athletes represent one of the categories of Americans who can be legally and publicly treated as commodities, and nowhere is that truth more obvious, and more ugly, than in college athletics, where the athletes are not only forbidden from profiting from their own commodification, but also required to help the institutions they represent to profit from it. Then they have to hear the people who profit most from the commodities who play ball for them tell a judge that they’re doing it only for the athlete’s own good. This trial is about the NCAA’s desire to maintain that arrangement forever."

 

[Chuckles]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

 

[Noah]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

Make billions of dollars for university

HAVE SOME TUITION AND SNACKS​

 

[Chuckles]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

Make billions of dollars for university

HAVE SOME TUITION AND SNACKS​

Use a University's resources while running your own business? I like that arrangement. Anyone on this board care to provide me with resources, I want to run a business?

Athletes who don't like the notion of using the college system as a springboard to an athletic career are not compelled to sign a scholarship.

 

[poncho0091]

I'd also like to say it's an inaccurate statement. An athlete can profit off of his abilities if he chooses to go to CFL or some other form of competition, but these athletes want to get to the big stage (the NFL) and get the big money. In that sense its a case of go somewhere and work for less than your value, or invest in college and hope to get full value later. If the athlete doesn't like it, he can go somewhere else, but nowhere else are they going to get a free education, the exposure, the training facilities, the medical staff, free housing, free food, and any other resources the university provides while perfecting their craft and building their brand.

Think of people who create something while working for a company using that companies resources. Do you think that company is going to let you go sell it on your own or make sure the world sees you advertised with the product you created? **** no. They are going to patent it under their name and you will still fall under the what have you done for me lately ideal later on. In no way will you be entitled to the product you created.

 

[Chuckles]

And in no way do I suggest that the NCAA is not a parasite on the backs of the athletes and their schools.

 

[kmwcane]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

How do you know that this benefit is the correct value for the service rendered?

 

[poncho0091]

And in no way do I suggest that the NCAA is not a parasite on the backs of the athletes and their schools.

Agree with this. NCAA does need to compensate them some, but these athletes only see billions of dollars. They don't see the expenses for the sports. They don't see that smaller schools don't pull the same millions of dollars as the big schools. They don't see how many athletes there are that will get paid. It's just like the recent settlement for like $20 million where each athlete might get anywhere from a couple hundred dollars to maybe $2000 depending on how many former athletes collect. They are going to be surprised with how thinly that money gets spread when there is that many people getting paid.

 

[kmwcane]

I'd also like to say it's an inaccurate statement. An athlete can profit off of his abilities if he chooses to go to CFL or some other form of competition, but these athletes want to get to the big stage (the NFL) and get the big money. In that sense its a case of go somewhere and work for less than your value, or invest in college and hope to get full value later. If the athlete doesn't like it, he can go somewhere else, but nowhere else are they going to get a free education, the exposure, the training facilities, the medical staff, free housing, free food, and any other resources the university provides while perfecting their craft and building their brand.

Think of people who create something while working for a company using that companies resources. Do you think that company is going to let you go sell it on your own or make sure the world sees you advertised with the product you created? **** no. They are going to patent it under their name and you will still fall under the what have you done for me lately ideal later on. In no way will you be entitled to the product you created.

Except the NCAA is not even the company in your analogy. They are merely a third party that has created rules that benefit itself without having to do anything.

As for your other statement, how do you know that the benefits you outlined are sufficient compensation for the services provided by the athletes?

 

[Supercane85]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

Make billions of dollars for university

HAVE SOME TUITION AND SNACKS​

Use a University's resources while running your own business? I like that arrangement. Anyone on this board care to provide me with resources, I want to run a business?

Athletes who don't like the notion of using the college system as a springboard to an athletic career are not compelled to sign a scholarship.

An education cost about 40,000

The athlete makes the university millions.

If the athlete was allowed to profit off their on likeness they would generate more than 40,000

So this is not a fair trade off.

 

[Chuckles]

Colleges and universities created CFB and its commercial value, not the athletes. The athletes are free to test the values of their services rendered elsewhere. Whatever commercial value an individual athlete can create will be determined by the market.

At the core of this whole argument is that the "man" takes advantage of the poor but talented kid. There is zero consideration for other concerns. Without the support of academic institutions can we visualize a system where the kids run their own league or will the league be organized and supervised by a new version of "the man?"

 

[Noah]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

Make billions of dollars for university

HAVE SOME TUITION AND SNACKS​

Use a University's resources while running your own business? I like that arrangement. Anyone on this board care to provide me with resources, I want to run a business?

Athletes who don't like the notion of using the college system as a springboard to an athletic career are not compelled to sign a scholarship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXeDUFTaU1Y

 

[Chuckles]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

Make billions of dollars for university

HAVE SOME TUITION AND SNACKS​

Use a University's resources while running your own business? I like that arrangement. Anyone on this board care to provide me with resources, I want to run a business?

Athletes who don't like the notion of using the college system as a springboard to an athletic career are not compelled to sign a scholarship.

An education cost about 40,000
It varies
The athlete makes the university millions.
The university provides the athlete with the resources, organization, and training with the potential to make millions, but it varies
If the athlete was allowed to profit off their on likeness they would generate more than 40,000
No doubt some would generate much more, others not so much. Would it not be fair for the athlete to compensate the university?
So this is not a fair trade off.

It is only not a "fair" trade off for a relatively small number of elite players, assuming their talents were never developed by their fellow players and team coaches and trainers. And, in the interest of "fairness" (love the word!) will they be "fairly compensated" according to their contributions?

 

[kmwcane]

Colleges and universities created CFB and its commercial value, not the athletes. The athletes are free to test the values of their services rendered elsewhere. Whatever commercial value an individual athlete can create will be determined by the market.

At the core of this whole argument is that the "man" takes advantage of the poor but talented kid. There is zero consideration for other concerns. Without the support of academic institutions can we visualize a system where the kids run their own league or will the league be organized and supervised by a new version of "the man?"

Interesting, so you believe the athletes had no role in the value of CFB? Why should the athlete be required to test the value of their services elsewhere when they are already providing a valuable service? They do not deserve to be compensated for this service?

The crux of my argument is not that the athlete is being paid to little compensation. My argument is that we just do not know what the true value of a CFB player is because the NCAA and colleges are operating a cartel and enforcing arbitrary limits on a player's value.

 

[cowboycane]

Isn't it interesting how the quotation above conveniently leaves out the benefit to the athlete?

Do you think they benefit proportionally to what they provide? For instance, do you think that the tuition and food makes up for being a cog in a billion dollar machine? Honest question.

Personally I think that, even if they are fully compensated for their time on the field (which I do not think they are), they CERTAINLY are not adequately compensated for the off-field stuff. The licensing of their likenesses, etc. But am always up to hear a good line of reasoning.

 

[FloppyBootStomp]

I didn't realize how many people had such a gross misunderstanding of how a business works. If you haven't figured it out yet, they're not in school to get a degree. So a degree is not "fair" compensation. All of this "free resources and training" talk is garbage as well. That's like saying you shouldn't expect to be paid for your job because you're gaining skills and experience while using company resources. They're in school to generate revenue for the NCAA and the universities. Millions and millions of dollars worth of revenue. You don't get to exploit people for that much money and give them **** all in return. The NCAA is coming to an end and it's a great thing.

 

[Chuckles]

Colleges and universities created CFB and its commercial value, not the athletes. The athletes are free to test the values of their services rendered elsewhere. Whatever commercial value an individual athlete can create will be determined by the market.

At the core of this whole argument is that the "man" takes advantage of the poor but talented kid. There is zero consideration for other concerns. Without the support of academic institutions can we visualize a system where the kids run their own league or will the league be organized and supervised by a new version of "the man?"

Interesting, so you believe the athletes had no role in the value of CFB? Why should the athlete be required to test the value of their services elsewhere when they are already providing a valuable service? They do not deserve to be compensated for this service?

The crux of my argument is not that the athlete is being paid to little compensation. My argument is that we just do not know what the true value of a CFB player is because the NCAA and colleges are operating a cartel and enforcing arbitrary limits on a player's value.

I did not say that the athlete had no role in the value of CFB. In fact it is CFB that has created the athlete's value. The test of their value apart from CFB would be to take their talents elsewhere. They are being compensated, it's been said here to the tune of around 40K.

The athletes are not compelled to perform for the "cartel." Yes, the colleges and the NCAA are enforcing "arbitrary" limits on outside income in exchange for the values provided.

Insofar as the NCAA it is a bloated organization that provides little value that could not be obtained differently.

 

[Republicane]

Chuckles, instead of telling us why they shouldn't be paid please lay out your argument for why they should be kept broke.

 

[Chuckles]

I didn't realize how many people had such a gross misunderstanding of how a business works. Okay then how about this: you provide me with the physical, financial, and human capital to develop a battery for an electric car that would last a month in between charges. I provide the talent and aptitude, but you provide me with the training and support to develop the product. If the market likes my product or its potential I get to make as much money as the market is willing to pay.If you haven't figured it out yet, they're not in school to get a degree. So a degree is not "fair" compensation. All of this "free resources and training" talk is garbage as well. That's like saying you shouldn't expect to be paid for your job because you're gaining skills and experience while using company resources. They're in school to generate revenue for the NCAA and the universities. Millions and millions of dollars worth of revenue. You don't get to exploit people for that much money and give them **** all in returnWhat percent of student athletes are there to generate millions of dollars worth of revenue for their university? How many actually do?. The NCAA is coming to an end and it's a great thing.

Yes it would!

So, I take it you run a not for profit not people "exploiting" business?

 

[Mcanes305]

For everyone supporting the universities and NCAA....can you explain how you then justify coaches on multi million dollar contracts. The price of a coach clearly dictates the worth the sport. If an education, housing and medical facilities are sufficient for the athletes then no coach should make more than 100K. Can you imagine if a cap was placed on coaches salaries because there are secondary emloyees of an educational institution, how fast will people start screaming "socialism"

Bottom line, I love ncaa football but pay the athletes or at the very least allow them to have a union.