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Notice of Allegations *update*
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Consigliere
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Not surprised at all, the football team has been forthcoming and bent over backwards during this investigation as well as imposing 2 bowl bans. The basketball program seems to have hid things or been less than truthful with investigators which is why Haith is rumored to be getting a show cause.
If Corch Shannon were being show caused I would be much more concerned about our future. He seems to have been urging his coaches to stay away from Shapiro.
cryptocane
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thats not true--dequan jones was suspended for a bunch of games last year. reggie johnson got suspended and durand scott was supeneded 5 games that carried into this year.
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nadiamufdi
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I dont think they are going to hammer the BBall program because Haith and his staff lied. They will get hit for the stuff found, but the football program was implicated a sh*tload more than the bball program was. The bball program wasnt hiding stuff. Haith and his staff, all FORMER coaches, were hiding stuff. I know a lot of football-only fans are hoping this happens, but I think it might be wishful thinking. If Stoutland and Panunnzio had lied, you would have 4 football coaches implicated too
Consigliere
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The basketball team did the same as the football team.
We sat players (Even though RJ and DS were unrelated to NS),
The coaches are ALL GONE, and
We were fully compliant.
The big difference is that Haith is in trouble (for allegedly lying) about some payment. The thing is, like football, everyone is LONG GONE (i.e. the coaches).
Also, the big issue (the DQJ stuff) is reportedly found to be BS. Not sure why people think Basketball will get much when it is allegedly is the coaches who wronged when dealing with the investigation and not the school.
nadiamufdi
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Consig - they are just thinking that because Haith is going to be butt-pounded by Emmert and Randall is not.
Consigliere
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Agreed. Let's not forget we we're COMPLIANT with the investigation, that we already sat DQJ (even though he was reinstated) and like we have reportedly heard the DQJ didn't happen.
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Forgot the bball team suspended guys. I guess I see issues for them in that they didn't sit out any post season games and the HC seems to have been involved where as Shannon was trying to tell his staff to stay away from Shapiro.
Gennaker Cane
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Here's my rationale: if every one of the coaches on our previous staff is getting hit with personal sanctions, how can we not expect to not get hit hard if the head coach and 3 assistants were all dirty. I would love to be wrong on this but this looks like an example of lack of institutional control if the media reports are accurate. You follow the NCAA stuff more than I do Consig., but this just doesn't sound good to me.
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Clean Football coaches: Head Coach, OC, DC, RBC, LBC, DBC
Clean Basketball coaches:
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nadiamufdi
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Gennaker - look at recent cases with the NCAA. Look at a bball one, for example, with Bruce Pearl. He lied to the NCAA. From what Ive read, which there is probably more to the story Im sure, the guys who lie to the NCAA get nailed much harder than the guys who tell the truth. Anyhow, Pearl got a 3 year show cause, while the Tenn BBall program got a slap on the wrist. Will UM get more than that for bball? Most definitely. I dont think a coach giving away his frequent flier miles is a lack of institutional control though. Look at what shouldve been caught by compliance. Could they have caught that? USC's compliance was alerted of Reggie Bush's situation and chose to ignore it.
bathtubgin
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CaneBoss
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SIAP
NCAA Bylaw Blog writer John Infante talks positives, negatives for UM with latest developments
With reports surfacing that former basketball coach Frank Haith and football recruiting coordinators Clint Hurtt and Aubrey Hill are expected to be charged with unethical conduct in the NCAA's investigation into wrongdoing done at the University of Miami, I sought the expertise of NCAA Bylaw Blog writer John Infante Tuesday morning to digest what we are hearing and how it might affect the program.
Infante, a former compliance officer at NCAA Division I schools, has been running the Bylaw Blog for over two years and his expertise has been featured on ESPN, Sports Illustrated, USA Today and numerous other media outlets. Keep in mind he isn't privy to the information the NCAA has on Miami. He simply is giving his opinion based on what he's read from published reports.
Here is the transcript of my 15 minute one-on-one Q&A with him:
Q: There were reports Monday that about four former basketball coaches and at least two former assistant football coaches will be cited for violating bylaw 10.1 "unethical conduct" in the NCAA's investigation. How does that affect Miami positively or negatively?
"Well, it sounds like nearly all the assistants are being charged with unethical conduct and it also sounds like Frank Haith is going to be charged with failing to create an atmosphere of compliance, which generally only head coaches are charged with. It can be helpful [for Miami]. The biggest thing is when you have that many coaches [charged with unethical conduct] and go in front of the Committee on Infractions there's going to be a lot of people in the room to spread blame around. When you talk about the presentations and the answers given in front of the COI, I think generally the feeling is amongst a lot of people who have gone through that process is that coaches tend not to perform as well as the institution does. In the end for Miami, it all kind of depends what kind of charges the school is facing. We kind of expect in addition to the specific violations the NCAA feels it has evidence of it's pretty much a guarantee there is going to be a failure to monitor charge. I would also be surprised if there is not a lack of institutional control charge as well. If Miami's cooperation is considered better and the coaches don't perform well in the hearing that could lead to the COI sort of finding that in spite of institutional failings by Miami this was more the coaches fault and bring the penalties down on the coaches more than on the institution -- especially considering the two post-season bans the [football program] has already imposed."
Q: How much does Miami taking a two-year ban help its case with football?
"You're probably looking at no more than [two years]. Three years of post-season ban is pretty rare -- given the USC case, which is some of the harshest sanctions. Being already two years, I'm not sure you add a third one to a school that has self-imposed two. In terms of scholarships or recruiting restrictions, I don't know if it will have as big of an impact there. I kind of feel like they took care of that post-season penalty. The COI will impose other penalties they see fit and not go into any further post-season bans. If they did that's something Miami would probably appeal."
Q: We've heard UM has done a good job cooperating with the NCAA. How much does that help?
"I forget where I saw it reported but I have seen more than just cooperation, but exceptional cooperation. One of the things fans see is that schools get rewarded for cooperating, but there is a level of cooperation you have to do to meet your obligation and then there's a level you get extra credit for. [Cooperation is] making sure you get to interview everybody you want. Going and suggesting you should interview this guy as well because he may have information too -- that's when you see something like exceptional cooperation. It could be that [the NCAA is] giving [Miami] a little bit of praise publicly just because it wants to. But it could also mean [Miami is] reaching a certain level of cooperation that has significance in the NCAA investigation where they might get a break on a penalty as a result."
Q: Would exceptional cooperation be telling former athletes that if they didn't cooperate they wouldn't be allowed back on the sidelines? We've heard that and our Barry Jackson reported that last week.
"If they were able to get people who normally wouldn't have replied to the NCAA or allowed themselves to be interviewed by the NCAA and Miami helped make that happen -- especially athletes UM has no jurisdiction over -- that's going above and beyond what the NCAA asks on the case. That may lead to a lessening of penalties. But there is already a high bar for cooperation. You have to go above and beyond that to get any sort of relief from penalties in front of the COI. Having the coaches there especially if Miami is going along with it and agreeing to the findings of the NOA and the coaches aren't the ones fighting, in the end you are dealing with people who are making a judgement call. Being the one that's not fighting and the ones who want to raise a fuss about stuff makes the school look better in comparison."
Q: Former coach Randy Shannon has not linked to any of this. In fact, we've heard stories and its been reported he was telling his players and coaches to stay away from Nevin Shapiro. Does that help Miami's football program in this case considering it appears Haith was involved with Shapiro.
"It certainly does. We've seen Shannon not being named in any of the violations and him not facing any unethical conduct or failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance charges. Because he is the head coach, he is supposed to be the one as the direct link to the administration and what they do in terms of monitoring and applying compliance. If he did that well, that helps show there was a chain of command of monitoring and promoting institutional control and thus the blame falls on the assistant coaches. If that's the case then, we may see kind of a smaller failure to monitor or lack of institutional control that could end up more centered on the basketball violations where it looks like the head coach was involved in some manner. While charges like failure to monitor are institution violations it can get to be more specific than that. It can focus on what sport led to that charge."
Q: Will UM's history play a factor? The school was still under probation for baseball violations through the 2005-2006 academic year.
"It will. It certainly will be brought up by the COI. But I think it's more important if [Miami] is considered a repeat violator in this case. I believe a lot of that depends on how far back the NCAA is able to prove the violations. I believe they had a case [in baseball] in the mid 2000s. If they did in that case -- as Yahoo! reported -- they would definitely be under a repeat violator status. The thing is we haven't seen with that repeat violator status -- outside of the USC case -- that there have been significantly harsher penalties as a result. UCF is one example. UCF was under repeat violator status -- kind of a similar violation as Miami in terms of a booster or third party who is providing benefits on a smaller scale. But again we sort of saw them impose sort of a standard penalty the COI has been imposing, losing scholarships, a one-year post-season ban, recruiting restrictions, going after the individuals and sort of move on. I think the Miami case is probably a little too big for that. But again, I do kind of think in some ways the COI is going through the motions until the new enforcement program starts up in August. There is a little bit of a sense of the current process having a lame duck quality to it. That play in Miami's favor as well."
Q: How is the NCAA's new process different and how does the fact Miami doesn't fall under the new rules help?
"The new rules are going to be harsher, it's going to be a different kind of process and involve different people. We just saw there are eight new people appointed. So, I think because of this reset almost, the NCAA sees there are flaws in this process and as of Aug. 1, 2013 were going to fix it. While the current cases are taken seriously, the fact the same penalties have been applied in the last two or three cases sort of suggests they're not going with the same fire and brimstone as they did with USC. That helps Miami."
Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umia...m-with-latest-developments.html#storylink=cpy
NCAA Bylaw Blog writer John Infante talks positives, negatives for UM with latest developments
With reports surfacing that former basketball coach Frank Haith and football recruiting coordinators Clint Hurtt and Aubrey Hill are expected to be charged with unethical conduct in the NCAA's investigation into wrongdoing done at the University of Miami, I sought the expertise of NCAA Bylaw Blog writer John Infante Tuesday morning to digest what we are hearing and how it might affect the program.
Infante, a former compliance officer at NCAA Division I schools, has been running the Bylaw Blog for over two years and his expertise has been featured on ESPN, Sports Illustrated, USA Today and numerous other media outlets. Keep in mind he isn't privy to the information the NCAA has on Miami. He simply is giving his opinion based on what he's read from published reports.
Here is the transcript of my 15 minute one-on-one Q&A with him:
Q: There were reports Monday that about four former basketball coaches and at least two former assistant football coaches will be cited for violating bylaw 10.1 "unethical conduct" in the NCAA's investigation. How does that affect Miami positively or negatively?
"Well, it sounds like nearly all the assistants are being charged with unethical conduct and it also sounds like Frank Haith is going to be charged with failing to create an atmosphere of compliance, which generally only head coaches are charged with. It can be helpful [for Miami]. The biggest thing is when you have that many coaches [charged with unethical conduct] and go in front of the Committee on Infractions there's going to be a lot of people in the room to spread blame around. When you talk about the presentations and the answers given in front of the COI, I think generally the feeling is amongst a lot of people who have gone through that process is that coaches tend not to perform as well as the institution does. In the end for Miami, it all kind of depends what kind of charges the school is facing. We kind of expect in addition to the specific violations the NCAA feels it has evidence of it's pretty much a guarantee there is going to be a failure to monitor charge. I would also be surprised if there is not a lack of institutional control charge as well. If Miami's cooperation is considered better and the coaches don't perform well in the hearing that could lead to the COI sort of finding that in spite of institutional failings by Miami this was more the coaches fault and bring the penalties down on the coaches more than on the institution -- especially considering the two post-season bans the [football program] has already imposed."
Q: How much does Miami taking a two-year ban help its case with football?
"You're probably looking at no more than [two years]. Three years of post-season ban is pretty rare -- given the USC case, which is some of the harshest sanctions. Being already two years, I'm not sure you add a third one to a school that has self-imposed two. In terms of scholarships or recruiting restrictions, I don't know if it will have as big of an impact there. I kind of feel like they took care of that post-season penalty. The COI will impose other penalties they see fit and not go into any further post-season bans. If they did that's something Miami would probably appeal."
Q: We've heard UM has done a good job cooperating with the NCAA. How much does that help?
"I forget where I saw it reported but I have seen more than just cooperation, but exceptional cooperation. One of the things fans see is that schools get rewarded for cooperating, but there is a level of cooperation you have to do to meet your obligation and then there's a level you get extra credit for. [Cooperation is] making sure you get to interview everybody you want. Going and suggesting you should interview this guy as well because he may have information too -- that's when you see something like exceptional cooperation. It could be that [the NCAA is] giving [Miami] a little bit of praise publicly just because it wants to. But it could also mean [Miami is] reaching a certain level of cooperation that has significance in the NCAA investigation where they might get a break on a penalty as a result."
Q: Would exceptional cooperation be telling former athletes that if they didn't cooperate they wouldn't be allowed back on the sidelines? We've heard that and our Barry Jackson reported that last week.
"If they were able to get people who normally wouldn't have replied to the NCAA or allowed themselves to be interviewed by the NCAA and Miami helped make that happen -- especially athletes UM has no jurisdiction over -- that's going above and beyond what the NCAA asks on the case. That may lead to a lessening of penalties. But there is already a high bar for cooperation. You have to go above and beyond that to get any sort of relief from penalties in front of the COI. Having the coaches there especially if Miami is going along with it and agreeing to the findings of the NOA and the coaches aren't the ones fighting, in the end you are dealing with people who are making a judgement call. Being the one that's not fighting and the ones who want to raise a fuss about stuff makes the school look better in comparison."
Q: Former coach Randy Shannon has not linked to any of this. In fact, we've heard stories and its been reported he was telling his players and coaches to stay away from Nevin Shapiro. Does that help Miami's football program in this case considering it appears Haith was involved with Shapiro.
"It certainly does. We've seen Shannon not being named in any of the violations and him not facing any unethical conduct or failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance charges. Because he is the head coach, he is supposed to be the one as the direct link to the administration and what they do in terms of monitoring and applying compliance. If he did that well, that helps show there was a chain of command of monitoring and promoting institutional control and thus the blame falls on the assistant coaches. If that's the case then, we may see kind of a smaller failure to monitor or lack of institutional control that could end up more centered on the basketball violations where it looks like the head coach was involved in some manner. While charges like failure to monitor are institution violations it can get to be more specific than that. It can focus on what sport led to that charge."
Q: Will UM's history play a factor? The school was still under probation for baseball violations through the 2005-2006 academic year.
"It will. It certainly will be brought up by the COI. But I think it's more important if [Miami] is considered a repeat violator in this case. I believe a lot of that depends on how far back the NCAA is able to prove the violations. I believe they had a case [in baseball] in the mid 2000s. If they did in that case -- as Yahoo! reported -- they would definitely be under a repeat violator status. The thing is we haven't seen with that repeat violator status -- outside of the USC case -- that there have been significantly harsher penalties as a result. UCF is one example. UCF was under repeat violator status -- kind of a similar violation as Miami in terms of a booster or third party who is providing benefits on a smaller scale. But again we sort of saw them impose sort of a standard penalty the COI has been imposing, losing scholarships, a one-year post-season ban, recruiting restrictions, going after the individuals and sort of move on. I think the Miami case is probably a little too big for that. But again, I do kind of think in some ways the COI is going through the motions until the new enforcement program starts up in August. There is a little bit of a sense of the current process having a lame duck quality to it. That play in Miami's favor as well."
Q: How is the NCAA's new process different and how does the fact Miami doesn't fall under the new rules help?
"The new rules are going to be harsher, it's going to be a different kind of process and involve different people. We just saw there are eight new people appointed. So, I think because of this reset almost, the NCAA sees there are flaws in this process and as of Aug. 1, 2013 were going to fix it. While the current cases are taken seriously, the fact the same penalties have been applied in the last two or three cases sort of suggests they're not going with the same fire and brimstone as they did with USC. That helps Miami."
Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umia...m-with-latest-developments.html#storylink=cpy
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Consigliere
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The way the NCAA has recently handed out punishments. Have some faith and trust the process.
Remember a coach can wrong but a program may not know or suffer. If Coach **** Hurtt is personally borrowing $15,000.00 from NS and the school doesn't know about it or has anyway of knowing, why should the school suffer?
If coach Fat Haith borrows cash money for a recruit but never gives it to that recruit, is that fair? Seems like a scum bag taking a handout (see Clay Davis) without anyway for a school to know.
All the coaches are GONE! All the players are GONE! The NCAA will punish MOSTLY the wrongdoers.
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Greg Cote @gregcote
Notice of Allegations against Miami Hurricanes expected today. NCAA has scheduled 1:15 p.m. teleconference. @MiamiHerald
Notice of Allegations against Miami Hurricanes expected today. NCAA has scheduled 1:15 p.m. teleconference. @MiamiHerald
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Just needs to end already....
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