NCAA investigation, go ahead, ask me...

People need to understand the difference between violating court rules in bankruptcy and violating ethic rules of the Florida Bar. If I had to guess, I would guess that Shapiro's lawyer does very little to no bankruptcy work. Bankruptcy judges have limited powers, and should she have violated a bankruptcy rule that does not amount to a federal crime, they could suspend her from practicing before the bankruptcy court. I don't really see much of a problem, unless she double billed for the depo.

I will always take the attorney's side in a Bar issue (I represent attorneys charged with Bar violations). For you non-lawyers (and non Florida lawyers), if you think the NCAA is bad, the Florida Bar is 1000 times worse. I have been on the wrong end of a bar complaint that was made by a federal judge - all because I caught the USAO doing something unconstitutional. I thought the case was laughable, but I had a federal judge rely on lies told to an FBI agent and find that my partner and I were laundering money for criminal enterprises. It took a lot of work, but I got the complaint dismissed (and hopefully embarrassed the judge in the process).

FWIW, PeeWee's lawyer is a UM alum and is in Iron Arrow - he's VERY pro-UM.

Honestly, I was reading the deposition above (I posted some stuff I found interesting) and it is so tainted and reeks of SHADY PRACTICES or OUTSIDE DEALINGS. I don't care if she is disbarred as much as I care about the NCAA's case being in shambles.

I read the depo when the Herald first posted it, and, yes, she went very far afield, but there was probably enough to justify taking the depo. PeeWee was Nevin's bagman - he delivered money for Nevin (not necessarily to UM players either). PeeWee's lawyer (if he had paid for one) should have moved for a protective order if he wanted questioning to be limited. He also could have objected and sought a protective order during the depo... I really don't see it as that big a deal. I'm simply happy that the NCAA can't use that depo and the other one(s) to make their case. I have no interest in what becomes of Nevin's lawyer.
 
Advertisement
i also read the depo and there is no real useful evidence for the NCAA. Generally Pee Wee does not corroborate Shapiro's claims.
 
Advertisement
People need to understand the difference between violating court rules in bankruptcy and violating ethic rules of the Florida Bar. If I had to guess, I would guess that Shapiro's lawyer does very little to no bankruptcy work. Bankruptcy judges have limited powers, and should she have violated a bankruptcy rule that does not amount to a federal crime, they could suspend her from practicing before the bankruptcy court. I don't really see much of a problem, unless she double billed for the depo.

I will always take the attorney's side in a Bar issue (I represent attorneys charged with Bar violations). For you non-lawyers (and non Florida lawyers), if you think the NCAA is bad, the Florida Bar is 1000 times worse. I have been on the wrong end of a bar complaint that was made by a federal judge - all because I caught the USAO doing something unconstitutional. I thought the case was laughable, but I had a federal judge rely on lies told to an FBI agent and find that my partner and I were laundering money for criminal enterprises. It took a lot of work, but I got the complaint dismissed (and hopefully embarrassed the judge in the process).

FWIW, PeeWee's lawyer is a UM alum and is in Iron Arrow - he's VERY pro-UM.

Honestly, I was reading the deposition above (I posted some stuff I found interesting) and it is so tainted and reeks of SHADY PRACTICES or OUTSIDE DEALINGS. I don't care if she is disbarred as much as I care about the NCAA's case being in shambles.

I read the depo when the Herald first posted it, and, yes, she went very far afield, but there was probably enough to justify taking the depo. PeeWee was Nevin's bagman - he delivered money for Nevin (not necessarily to UM players either). PeeWee's lawyer (if he had paid for one) should have moved for a protective order if he wanted questioning to be limited. He also could have objected and sought a protective order during the depo... I really don't see it as that big a deal. I'm simply happy that the NCAA can't use that depo and the other one(s) to make their case. I have no interest in what becomes of Nevin's lawyer.

In general maybe, but the depth of the questioning and the strangeness makes me see shady dealings.

I mean isn't this the BANKRUPTCY TRUSTEES job to find the assets. If the Bankruptcy trustee says FUCCCCK OFF, why are they digging?

I also don't care about his attorney, just want to get this done.
 
Last edited:
I'll make a prediction: we get off with the self-imposed postseason bans as sentence served, no scholarship losses

fruit from the poisonous tree is also considered tainted
 
Whether an objection is waived for purposes of a depo, or admission in a subsequent proceeding, is not relevant to the issue of whether the line of questioning in and of itself was pursued for reason that may be a violation of an ethical rule. IMO.

From the Transcript of the videotape deposition of Sean Peewee Allen on December 19, 2011

Q. Did you ever take Mr. Bridgewater to either meet with Coach Golden or Coach Fisch at anytime?
A. I brought Teddy Bridgewater to meet, yes, with Coach Golden. Well, not specifically him I guess. The coaching staff. I don't know what month it was. It was -- there was an official visit is what they call it, going on. He was not a part of that official visit. Somebody from the staff called me and asked me to bring Teddy -- oh, actually I take that back. I'm sorry. Teddy was already down there. They asked me to come get him.
Q. Who's they?
A. A member of the coaching staff. I don't remember who exactly it was.
Q. Okay.
A. So I went to Dan Marino's, the restaurant in South Miami --
Q. Right.
A. -- and sat there. Yeah, I sat with Teddy and -- actually that might have been the first time I met Coach Golden, and they talked and then I
drove Teddy home from there.
Q. Was Mr. Shapiro present at that meeting?
A. No.
(ed. note - She does know her client was in jail in January 2011?)
Q. Did you ever observe any financial transactions between Mr. Bridgewater and Mr. Golden or Mr. Fisch in your presence?
A. No.
Q. How did the coaching staff know to contact you? Why would they contact you?
A. At that time -- I want to say at that time Nevin was already in jail, and I was working there.
Q. It was? That's why I asked you for your date. (ed. not - she never asked about the date)
A. I can't remember -- I'm sorry, I really don't remember the exact date. That is something that I could figure out if I, you know, later on I could sit down and figure out, but --
Q. Yeah. I just want to know the financial end of it --
A. No --
Q. -- if Mr. Shapiro was present for any of that.
A. No.


Total BS that Perez wanted to just know the "financial end" of the Golden/Bridgewater meeting as it related to Shapiro. Shapiro was arrested in April 2010 and in jail for months before Golden was hired in December 2010. She absolutely knew the timeline didn't jive with any Shapiro involvement with Golden and was on a fishing expedition at the behest of the NCAA investigator. The financial thing is clearly just an afterthought to cover her *** on the out of bounds questioning.


do you have a copy of the depo?

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/10/07/14/30/b0mrF.So.56.PDF

I disagree with Dapper.

There's some legal ethicial violations occuring here.

She's not being truthful to the bankruptcy tribunal by asking questions 100% irrelevant to the bankruptcy proceeding. And her claims are not meritorious at all. Asking NCAA questions about what Golden was doing for dinner has nothing to do with Shapiro's bankruptcy. You can't use a legal proceeding for one your client's to go on a fishing expedition for another of your client's who has no subpoena powers. And the fact she was getting paid by the NCAA nails her on this.

I believe the bankruptcy judge and the Florida bar would have grounds to reprimand her on this if it's brought to their attention.

It is irrelevant, but the onus is then on the lawyer representing the deponent to object. If the attorney doesn't object, objection may be waived.
 
Baldy: That's a fair point. My contention is that if the deposition questioning were to be later challenged as abusive, the fact that deponent had counsel in the room who did not object mitigates against a later finding that there was some ulterior purpose for the questioning.

Edit: In the end, I'd think it's the deponent who is in the best position to contend that the deposition questioning was abusive.
 
Advertisement
People need to understand the difference between violating court rules in bankruptcy and violating ethic rules of the Florida Bar. If I had to guess, I would guess that Shapiro's lawyer does very little to no bankruptcy work. Bankruptcy judges have limited powers, and should she have violated a bankruptcy rule that does not amount to a federal crime, they could suspend her from practicing before the bankruptcy court. I don't really see much of a problem, unless she double billed for the depo.

I will always take the attorney's side in a Bar issue (I represent attorneys charged with Bar violations). For you non-lawyers (and non Florida lawyers), if you think the NCAA is bad, the Florida Bar is 1000 times worse. I have been on the wrong end of a bar complaint that was made by a federal judge - all because I caught the USAO doing something unconstitutional. I thought the case was laughable, but I had a federal judge rely on lies told to an FBI agent and find that my partner and I were laundering money for criminal enterprises. It took a lot of work, but I got the complaint dismissed (and hopefully embarrassed the judge in the process).

FWIW, PeeWee's lawyer is a UM alum and is in Iron Arrow - he's VERY pro-UM.

Honestly, I was reading the deposition above (I posted some stuff I found interesting) and it is so tainted and reeks of SHADY PRACTICES or OUTSIDE DEALINGS. I don't care if she is disbarred as much as I care about the NCAA's case being in shambles.

I read the depo when the Herald first posted it, and, yes, she went very far afield, but there was probably enough to justify taking the depo. PeeWee was Nevin's bagman - he delivered money for Nevin (not necessarily to UM players either). PeeWee's lawyer (if he had paid for one) should have moved for a protective order if he wanted questioning to be limited. He also could have objected and sought a protective order during the depo... I really don't see it as that big a deal. I'm simply happy that the NCAA can't use that depo and the other one(s) to make their case. I have no interest in what becomes of Nevin's lawyer.

In general maybe, but the depth of the questioning and the strangeness makes me see shady dealings.

I mean isn't this the BANKRUPTCY TRUSTEES job to find the assets. If the Bankruptcy trustee says FUCCCCK OFF, why are they digging?

I also don't care about his attorney, just want to get this done.

A debtor could be concerned about fraudulent transfers - a debtor may believe he can prove money was exchanged and value received. That can increase the amount discharged, decreasing the amount that the debtor is still responsible for. Again, if a bankruptcy attorney wants to chime in...feel free.
 
Baldy: That's a fair point. My contention is that if the deposition questioning were to be later challenged as abusive, the fact that deponent had counsel in the room who did not object mitigates against a later finding that there was some ulterior purpose for the questioning.

Edit: In the end, I'd think it's the deponent who is in the best position to contend that the deposition questioning was abusive.

Never heard of deposition questions turning into Bar discipline...yes, you should never harass, intimidate, embarrass, etc. unless it happens as a result of a legitimate inquiry, but the questions were irrelevant, not what I just mentioned earlier.
 
I'll make a prediction: we get off with the self-imposed postseason bans as sentence served, no scholarship losses

fruit from the poisonous tree is also considered tainted

The NCAA has never dealt with the issue of fruit of the poisonous tree, as I stated earlier in the thread. They wouldn't necessarily have to exclude all fruit of the poisonous tree - it may be risky not too, but there is no rule that says they have to. That said, I think they would exclude it, but who knows...
 
i also read the depo and there is no real useful evidence for the NCAA. Generally Pee Wee does not corroborate Shapiro's claims.

This is what I said immediately after I read it (whenever it was first published online by the Herald). I think she expected him to corroborate Shapiro's allegations of spending thousands of dollars on UM players - instead, he admitted he gave players a few bucks from time to time and just said that there were parties, but he didn't know who paid for them.
 
Advertisement
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...apiros-attorney-insists-she-did-nothing-wrong

Shapiro's attorney insists she did nothing wrong

CORAL GABLES, Fla. -- Nevin Shapiro's attorney said Thursday that she did nothing wrong during the former Miami booster's bankruptcy proceedings, instead insisting that the NCAA's problems during an investigation of the Hurricanes' athletic department were self-inflicted.

Further, the attorney, Maria Elena Perez, said she's one of the victims of the NCAA's mistakes.

In an interview with the Associated Press, Perez said that the NCAA had representation present during two depositions in the bankruptcy case of her client, who is currently serving a 20-year prison term for masterminding a $930 million Ponzi scheme. The NCAA said Wednesday that it has ordered an outside review of the Miami investigation after finding "a very severe issue of improper conduct" by former investigators working the Miami case.

"The NCAA continues to sit in the (depositions) that are relevant to them," Perez said in a telephone interview. "There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm not an employee of the NCAA. I'm not bound by NCAA rules. What I did was exercised in due diligence for my client, Nevin Shapiro."

It has been two wild days for Miami athletics, starting Wednesday afternoon with the NCAA's announcement that the Miami investigation would be reviewed, followed Wednesday night by the 25th-ranked Hurricanes' stunning 90-63 win over No. 1 Duke, and then the hiring on Thursday of James Coley to be the new football offensive coordinator -- luring him away from Florida State, no less.

So it's business as usual at Miami. With the investigation, that's not at all the case.

The revelations Wednesday mean the notice of allegations against Miami -- the NCAA's findings of wrongdoing, a document that was nearly completed and was expected to be released by the end of this week -- will be delayed for at least a few more weeks, if not longer. The long-term ramifications could be more damning for the NCAA, especially if the outside investigator they have commissioned to look into the mess finds more problems.

And one of the things the NCAA wants to know is exactly what the nature of the agreement between Perez and former investigators was.

"I cannot discuss at this juncture my relationship with the NCAA," said Perez, who added that she has retained her own counsel and plans to release her side of the story in the coming days.

Meanwhile, NCAA President Mark Emmert released a statement Thursday lashing out at reports that the NCAA General Counsel's office approved what he called "the inappropriate use of Nevin Shapiro's attorney to obtain depositions in the Miami case."

"These reports are not true," Emmert said. "In fact, evidence shows the General Counsel's Office specifically told the enforcement staff -- on at least two occasions prior to any arrangements being made with the attorney -- that they could not use Shapiro's attorney for that purpose. As a result, the external investigation is solely focused on the behavior within and the environment of the enforcement program."

The NCAA said its investigation was based, at least in part, on information that it should not have had access to, the testimony of those who appeared under subpoena to be deposed in the bankruptcy case involving former Miami booster Nevin Shapiro, one of the most notorious Ponzi scheme architects in history.

The NCAA does not have subpoena power. Shapiro's attorney did, and used it to depose people she said were part of the bankruptcy proceeding. However, the deposition of one of those who appeared under subpoena, former Miami equipment-room staffer Sean Allen, showed a number of questions that were directly related to Shapiro's involvement with Hurricane athletics.

"The dubious party is not me. What I have done is 150 percent above board," Perez said.

The Hurricanes' athletic compliance practices have been probed by the NCAA for nearly two years. Allegations of wrongdoing involving Miami's football and men's basketball programs became widely known in August 2011 when Yahoo! Sports published accusations brought by Shapiro.

Miami has self-imposed two football postseason bans in response to the investigation. The Hurricanes also would have played in the Atlantic Coast Conference championship game this past season, meaning they could have qualified for the Orange Bowl.

ACC commissioner John Swofford on Thursday lauded the way Miami has cooperated with the NCAA throughout the inquiry, which started about two years ago.

"Miami's cooperation throughout this process should be commended," Swofford said. "They've been forthright and diligent in their efforts to fully cooperate with the NCAA. While it's unfortunate and extremely concerning that this has transpired, we respect the actions taken by President Emmert to launch an external review of the enforcement process."

Perez said she was upset with the speculation that she colluded with the NCAA against Miami.

"I don't understand what all this madness is about," Perez said. "This is much ado over nothing. ... Everyone is going to know exactly what happened. I have not done anything that is not above-board. In fact, I will take it a step further. I am a victim of their enforcement staff's misconduct. This is insane. This is ridiculous. This is outrageous.
 
ACC commissioner John Swofford on Thursday lauded the way Miami has cooperated with the NCAA throughout the inquiry, which started about two years ago.

"Miami's cooperation throughout this process should be commended," Swofford said. "They've been forthright and diligent in their efforts to fully cooperate with the NCAA. While it's unfortunate and extremely concerning that this has transpired, we respect the actions taken by President Emmert to launch an external review of the enforcement process."

Swofford got the call from Donna.
 
Advertisement
Those deposition questions seem fairly damning to the idea that Perez was not an NCAA mole.

The damning evidence is that the NCAA was paying her for her attorney fees. And she's flaying around that an attorney-client relationship didn't exist.


Just let that sink in, the NCAA subsidized the attorney fees for a convicted felon who swindled billions of dollars.
 
So, let me get this straight ... The guy in jail for fraud tells everyone publicly and on record that he is going to take down the University of Miami. His attorney and bagboy collude with the NCAA. We comply and are as forthright in every manner. Suspend our players for having dinner ect. Self impose 2-3 post season games plus the scarlet letter ... and some think we should take any kind of further punishment!!!!!!!????? WTF!!!

I should sue the NCAA for diminishing the value of my season tickets!
 
In my opinion, Ms. Perez will have some explaining to do to the Florida Bar. I'm shocked that other attorneys don't see it the way I do. It is also my opinion that Ms. Perez should keep her mouth shut for now. If she really does have counsel, she should speak through him/her and avoid speaking directly to the media.

Good luck, to Ms. Perez. I think she is going to need it. Any compensation she received as a result of this relationship with the NCAA is going to be spent on an ethics attorney (yes, there are ethics attorneys whose primary focus is representing individuals before a state Bar).

TIFWIW
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
Back
Top