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Myth Busters: Lack of NFL Talent

TrumpyCane said:
QBs drafted since joining ACC first 3 rounds since 2004: 0

OL: 4 (LOL)
DL: 6 (LOL) even more funny is ZERO DTs


3 of the most important position groups in football we’ve had 10 players drafted in 20 years

TrumpyCane thinks that is a massive problem

But Mario has zero excuses this season, 99.9% of the team is his
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Oh I agree Trumpy.
 

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Brains said:
First off, this is a good original post, or I wouldn't be bothering to respond with a thoughtful reply.

I do not seek to refute it, but rather to introduce a corollary for the sake of Nu'Ance (first cousin twice removed of Nu'Keese, for those who remember him).

We have been the nation's most underachieving team, given the talent we've had. Full stop, no argument. 2014, in particular, is the worst corching job of all time in CFB. If you don't believe me, look up our rooster.

We have turned countless 9 win seasons into 7-5 by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. No team makes more backbreaking, catastrophic errors, at the costliest moment. The play we can't afford to **** up, we always implode.

I am not going to do an in-depth analysis of the rosters of all our opponents for the given years.

However, if one were to look more closely at both our talent and the opponent's, I believe a theme would emerge: even where we have better overall roster talent, we lack sufficient matchup advantages to where we'd be able to simply steamroll an opponent with talent.

I.e., in one game, our WRs might be significantly better than their DBs, but our OL isn't better than their DL. In the next game, we have a clear advantage against their running game, but we will get chewed up against in the short range passing game.

Matchups matter, and we haven't had enough, sufficiently wide matchup advantages to play a "B" or "C" game and beat opponents. We've had to play a very good game, and failed.

Quite simply, our rosters have had enough talent to outperform what we have done. But, our rosters have not had the requisite top end or depth to survive an "off game" against a better-than-average opponent.
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This is where coaching comes in. You shouldn’t have to have the advantage at every single position group to win a game. A good coach knows the strengths and weaknesses of his roster and devises a game plan appropriately. Obviously if you’re not loaded on the offensive line, trying to run the ball down your opponent’s throat is a bad move.
 
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Miami #1 O ranking was as much a result of OL unit play as it was QB1.

easy gif1729602455179.gif
 
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Rellyrell said:
Does it matter? I’m not ****ting on ur ?, rather asking does it matter when I slide the timeline? The point was in 20 yrs we’ve had not 1 ACC crown despite the personnel. So let’s say for instance I slide the timeline from 2004-2014, the results would be even more damning, considering that was the era we produced the most NFL picks.

However, I’m a fair, reasonable, & equitable poster; so let’s slide the scale to fit 2015 - present:

1. Clemson - 55 total draft picks (28 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
2. Miami - 45 total draft picks (12 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
3. FSU - 42 total draft picks (22 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
4. Pitt - 29 total draft picks (7 w/in the 1st 3rd Rds)
5. UNC - 28 total draft picks (9 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
6. UL - 27 total draft picks (11 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
7. NCSt - 25 total draft picks (11 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
8. VT - 23 total draft picks (7 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
9. BC - 21 total draft picks (12 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
10. WF - 15 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
11. UVA - 12 total draft picks (3 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
12. GT - 11 total draft picks (2 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
13. Duke - 10 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
14. Syracuse - 9 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)

So allow me to pause this graphic real quick; this is y I hate when add’l ?’s r ask when I present a detailed post, b/c now it opens up a new can of worms.

As u can see, we’re still Top 3 in the conference in either total draft picks & total quality picks; however, now a new glaring indictment has been shined on the myth of not having enough talent:

Looking at the Top 10 in this category, 6 comes from the old ACC Atlantic Division. That means our talent compared to the ACC Coastal has been far superior, yet here’s our record vs. The Coastal since 2015: 33-20 (.622)
•7-2 v. UVA
•7-2 v. VT
•6-2 v. Pitt
•6-3 v. Duke
•5-4 v. GT
•2-7 v. UNC

Recruiting Avg. rankings:
1. Clemson - 11th
2. Miami - 12th
3. FSU - 13th
4. UNC - 25th
T-5. UL - 39th
T-5. VT - 39th
7. NCSt - 42nd
8. Pitt - 48th
9. GT - 49th
10. UVA - 55th
11. Duke - 56th
12. Syracuse - 58th
13. BC - 62nd
14. WF - 65th

And jic, even if I were to remove the class rankings of 2023 & 2024 from this equation, our avg. class rank from 2015-2022 is 14th, which is still top 3 in the conference & would be by far #1 in the old ACC Coastal division.

So it doesn’t matter how U slide the scale, it doesn’t matter the era, the coach, the excuse of “not enough talent” is just that, an excuse & could easily be labeled as a myth.
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Love the thread and it’s a great topic.

Question though, those draft picks, do they include UFDAs or just rounds 1-7?

I have a suspicion that while we have always had talented individuals it seems that a big reason we haven’t done anything with the draft picks is due to a lack of unified vision with the entire organization. Always seems to be either not enough or too many chefs in the kitchen so to speak.

Also too many dudes leaving early or being injured for long periods of time before finally living up to their potential (Arroyo is a perfect example of that).

What are your thoughts?
 
JamesQuall said:
Love the thread and it’s a great topic.

Question though, those draft picks, do they include UFDAs or just rounds 1-7?

I have a suspicion that while we have always had talented individuals it seems that a big reason we haven’t done anything with the draft picks is due to a lack of unified vision with the entire organization. Always seems to be either not enough or too many chefs in the kitchen so to speak.

Also too many dudes leaving early or being injured for long periods of time before finally living up to their potential (Arroyo is a perfect example of that).

What are your thoughts?
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Only draft picks, bro, no UDFA; &, I agree w/ u.

The purpose of these few threads I’ll be creating is to present evidence to expose various excuses used. This one was predicated on “the lack of talent” argument. This is strictly regarding in comparison to our peers in the ACC.
 
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We’ve recruited well but lacked difference makers at key positions

Last year we saw what a good QB and offense can do

But as we know the defense let us down

Mario just needs to get it all to gel at the same time

You can’t have every year we suck in a particular area, and expect things to go perfect

We sure seemed to have fixed the secondary but I fear we will see a drop off in LB or DL play this year. We are banking on Blay being a stud and some of the younger guys stepping up and making a contribution with real PT.

Last year we signed guys like Alston and Baron. Not sure why they didn’t perform up the par the entire season but we saw flashes. It doesn’t appear we are going after “extra” depth this year. I guess we’ll see after the spring window.

Last year when we signed Ward you could see they were going all in on 2024. If we didn’t sign Ward, I’m not sure if we bring in guys like Martinez, Brown, Baron, etc.
 
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University of Southern California is an even better example. They have fired better coaches than most programs can even hire. Take a look at the culture that Los Angeles has. Ask yourself just how bad were the hires of: Lane Kiffin, Steve Sarkisian, Ed Orgeron and now Lincoln Riley?
 
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