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Myth Busters: Lack of NFL Talent

20+ years of ****** hires and coaching will do that. You need the Jimmies and Joes but you still have to have Xs and Os
 
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Rellyrell said:
Does it matter? I’m not ****ting on ur ?, rather asking does it matter when I slide the timeline? The point was in 20 yrs we’ve had not 1 ACC crown despite the personnel. So let’s say for instance I slide the timeline from 2004-2014, the results would be even more damning, considering that was the era we produced the most NFL picks.

However, I’m a fair, reasonable, & equitable poster; so let’s slide the scale to fit 2015 - present:

1. Clemson - 55 total draft picks (28 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
2. Miami - 45 total draft picks (12 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
3. FSU - 42 total draft picks (22 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
4. Pitt - 29 total draft picks (7 w/in the 1st 3rd Rds)
5. UNC - 28 total draft picks (9 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
6. UL - 27 total draft picks (11 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
7. NCSt - 25 total draft picks (11 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
8. VT - 23 total draft picks (7 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
9. BC - 21 total draft picks (12 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
10. WF - 15 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
11. UVA - 12 total draft picks (3 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
12. GT - 11 total draft picks (2 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
13. Duke - 10 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
14. Syracuse - 9 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)

So allow me to pause this graphic real quick; this is y I hate when add’l ?’s r ask when I present a detailed post, b/c now it opens up a new can of worms.

As u can see, we’re still Top 3 in the conference in either total draft picks & total quality picks; however, now a new glaring indictment has been shined on the myth of not having enough talent:

Looking at the Top 10 in this category, 6 comes from the old ACC Atlantic Division. That means our talent compared to the ACC Coastal has been far superior, yet here’s our record vs. The Coastal since 2015: 33-20 (.622)
•7-2 v. UVA
•7-2 v. VT
•6-2 v. Pitt
•6-3 v. Duke
•5-4 v. GT
•2-7 v. UNC

Recruiting Avg. rankings:
1. Clemson - 11th
2. Miami - 12th
3. FSU - 13th
4. UNC - 25th
T-5. UL - 39th
T-5. VT - 39th
7. NCSt - 42nd
8. Pitt - 48th
9. GT - 49th
10. UVA - 55th
11. Duke - 56th
12. Syracuse - 58th
13. BC - 62nd
14. WF - 65th

And jic, even if I were to remove the class rankings of 2023 & 2024 from this equation, our avg. class rank from 2015-2022 is 14th, which is still top 3 in the conference & would be by far #1 in the old ACC Coastal division.

So it doesn’t matter how U slide the scale, it doesn’t matter the era, the coach, the excuse of “not enough talent” is just that, an excuse & could easily be labeled as a myth.
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The mental gymnastics here are both entertaining and humiliating.
 
Rellyrell said:
Does it matter? I’m not ****ting on ur ?, rather asking does it matter when I slide the timeline? The point was in 20 yrs we’ve had not 1 ACC crown despite the personnel. So let’s say for instance I slide the timeline from 2004-2014, the results would be even more damning, considering that was the era we produced the most NFL picks.

However, I’m a fair, reasonable, & equitable poster; so let’s slide the scale to fit 2015 - present:

1. Clemson - 55 total draft picks (28 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
2. Miami - 45 total draft picks (12 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
3. FSU - 42 total draft picks (22 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
4. Pitt - 29 total draft picks (7 w/in the 1st 3rd Rds)
5. UNC - 28 total draft picks (9 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
6. UL - 27 total draft picks (11 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
7. NCSt - 25 total draft picks (11 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
8. VT - 23 total draft picks (7 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
9. BC - 21 total draft picks (12 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
10. WF - 15 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
11. UVA - 12 total draft picks (3 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
12. GT - 11 total draft picks (2 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
13. Duke - 10 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)
14. Syracuse - 9 total draft picks (4 w/in the 1st 3 Rds)

So allow me to pause this graphic real quick; this is y I hate when add’l ?’s r ask when I present a detailed post, b/c now it opens up a new can of worms.

As u can see, we’re still Top 3 in the conference in either total draft picks & total quality picks; however, now a new glaring indictment has been shined on the myth of not having enough talent:

Looking at the Top 10 in this category, 6 comes from the old ACC Atlantic Division. That means our talent compared to the ACC Coastal has been far superior, yet here’s our record vs. The Coastal since 2015: 33-20 (.622)
•7-2 v. UVA
•7-2 v. VT
•6-2 v. Pitt
•6-3 v. Duke
•5-4 v. GT
•2-7 v. UNC

Recruiting Avg. rankings:
1. Clemson - 11th
2. Miami - 12th
3. FSU - 13th
4. UNC - 25th
T-5. UL - 39th
T-5. VT - 39th
7. NCSt - 42nd
8. Pitt - 48th
9. GT - 49th
10. UVA - 55th
11. Duke - 56th
12. Syracuse - 58th
13. BC - 62nd
14. WF - 65th

And jic, even if I were to remove the class rankings of 2023 & 2024 from this equation, our avg. class rank from 2015-2022 is 14th, which is still top 3 in the conference & would be by far #1 in the old ACC Coastal division.

So it doesn’t matter how U slide the scale, it doesn’t matter the era, the coach, the excuse of “not enough talent” is just that, an excuse & could easily be labeled as a myth.
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1. Thank you for doing this.
2. Not one of my comments were intended as a rock thrown your way. If you took a comment I made that way, it was not intended that way.
3. I am a data driven person who likes to draw their own conclusions and I rarely accept anything that is data driven without raw data present at its face value. It's me, not you....meaning, I'm a skeptic.
4. You've sparked my curiosity and now I'll see if anything else I've thought is true or not. It's simply for my own sake. I won't be putting any findings on the board.
5. To answer your original question about does it matter - Now that you've provided the info, no clearly it does not.
6. There are some other cans of worms, but I'll leave those alone because they don't take anything away from your original point that we have had the talent. I will however mention that I found it interesting at how many more early round picks FSU and Clemson had compared to us. I'm sure you noticed that as well.

Unrelated to your reply, but another poster listed all the QBs on the winning ACC team over the last 15 years or so and it was eye popping.

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply.
 
Gransapo said:
When is this board going to get it through their collective thick head, that Mario is the only coach that could get the commitment and support from the powers that be to even possibly get Miami back to being Miami. We better hope Mario keeps building on this past year's success because if he doesn't work out, you can turn off the lights.
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They keep tryna convince themselves that this is not the case because they want him gone lol
 
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BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
1. Thank you for doing this.
2. Not one of my comments were intended as a rock thrown your way. If you took a comment I made that way, it was not intended that way.
3. I am a data driven person who likes to draw their own conclusions and I rarely accept anything that is data driven without raw data present at its face value. It's me, not you....meaning, I'm a skeptic.
4. You've sparked my curiosity and now I'll see if anything else I've thought is true or not. It's simply for my own sake. I won't be putting any findings on the board.
5. To answer your original question about does it matter - Now that you've provided the info, no clearly it does not.
6. There are some other cans of worms, but I'll leave those alone because they don't take anything away from your original point that we have had the talent. I will however mention that I found it interesting at how many more early round picks FSU and Clemson had compared to us. I'm sure you noticed that as well.

Unrelated to your reply, but another poster listed all the QBs on the winning ACC team over the last 15 years or so and it was eye popping.

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply.
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Yeah, I’ll give a sneak preview of the next myth buster which will be QB play. It’ll be next month, however, but that QB data was extremely intriguing to say the least.

& pls understand, my reply wasn’t an attack on u. It’s hard to tell tone, pitch, etc. via typed out words, so that’s y if I’m attacking, I tend to use profanity, all caps, exclamation points, etc. so a poster know I’m going at their neck. Lol.

But these r great ?’s, & I sit on things often times so I can thoroughly vet the info. I’ll listen to a podcast or a segment on sports television that’ll spark my interest, & the rabbit hole goes far. From 2004-present, we should have at least 1 ACC crown in our mantle; but, like I said, I’m going to address the other myth about QB play.
 
Rellyrell said:
Yeah, I’ll give a sneak preview of the next myth buster which will be QB play. It’ll be next month, however, but that QB data was extremely intriguing to say the least.

& pls understand, my reply wasn’t an attack on u. It’s hard to tell tone, pitch, etc. via typed out words, so that’s y if I’m attacking, I tend to use profanity, all caps, exclamation points, etc. so a poster know I’m going at their neck. Lol.

But these r great ?’s, & I sit on things often times so I can thoroughly vet the info. I’ll listen to a podcast or a segment on sports television that’ll spark my interest, & the rabbit hole goes far. From 2004-present, we should have at least 1 ACC crown in our mantle; but, like I said, I’m going to address the other myth about QB play.
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My two cents we never put together “complete teams”. I buy the overall roster construction. I agree our coaching sucks ***. I agree with the overall argument. Just a splash of nuance from your fellow Nike / Jordan enthusiast
 
Rellyrell said:
Yeah, I’ll give a sneak preview of the next myth buster which will be QB play. It’ll be next month, however, but that QB data was extremely intriguing to say the least.

& pls understand, my reply wasn’t an attack on u. It’s hard to tell tone, pitch, etc. via typed out words, so that’s y if I’m attacking, I tend to use profanity, all caps, exclamation points, etc. so a poster know I’m going at their neck. Lol.

But these r great ?’s, & I sit on things often times so I can thoroughly vet the info. I’ll listen to a podcast or a segment on sports television that’ll spark my interest, & the rabbit hole goes far. From 2004-present, we should have at least 1 ACC crown in our mantle; but, like I said, I’m going to address the other myth about QB play.
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I’ll be looking forward to it. And, thank you for your research and effort put into this current post.

I think the majority of us have always believed that we have had enough talent to at least compete year in and year out for the ACC championship. Maybe not go every year, but at least have played in the ACCCG multiple times in the last 20 years and win a few. With the talent we’ve had, playing for it only once in 20 years is insane.
 
Coaching is why we haven't been competing for ACC titles
Coaching AND talent are why we aren't competing for national titles - but that being said, whose job is it (pre-NIL) to evaluate, acquire, and develop said talent?

We've had a string of bad coaches and somehow even worse coordinators (for the most part) on both sides of the ball, and the results speak for themselves. We are less accomplished in the ACC over the last 20 years than perennial football powerhouses like Wake Forest, Pitt (who has only been in this conference for half as long as we have) and SMU (who has only been here for 1 season)
 
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Rellyrell said:
Yeah, I’ll give a sneak preview of the next myth buster which will be QB play. It’ll be next month, however, but that QB data was extremely intriguing to say the least.

& pls understand, my reply wasn’t an attack on u. It’s hard to tell tone, pitch, etc. via typed out words, so that’s y if I’m attacking, I tend to use profanity, all caps, exclamation points, etc. so a poster know I’m going at their neck. Lol.

But these r great ?’s, & I sit on things often times so I can thoroughly vet the info. I’ll listen to a podcast or a segment on sports television that’ll spark my interest, & the rabbit hole goes far. From 2004-present, we should have at least 1 ACC crown in our mantle; but, like I said, I’m going to address the other myth about QB play.
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"if I’m attacking, I tend to use profanity, all caps, exclamation points, etc"
Noted

Lol
 
We'retheBoss said:
Coaching is why we haven't been competing for ACC titles
Coaching AND talent are why we aren't competing for national titles….
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Well f’in said.

This best describes what the back and forth in this thread has been over.

There’s a faction here who is focused on how we’re not competing consistently for talent with teams who consistently play for or win their conference championships.

And we never will until we’re competing for and winning our own conference. It’s really not that hard to figure out. We start dominating this trash *** conference we’ll see a difference in 5 star talent.

But I think we’re 2-3 seasons away from Mario looking like a snake oil salesman if he doesn’t get it figured out. If that happens I see the recruiting going the opposite direction
 
SCarolina Ibis said:
I've got a theory...

Going back 15 years, these are the QBs for ACC champions.
Five star recruit
First round pick
Both

2010 VT - Tyrod Taylor
2011 Clemson - Tajh Boyd
2012 FSU - EJ Manuel
2013 FSU - Jameis Winston
2014 FSU - Jameis Winston
2015 Clemson - Deshaun Watson
2016 Clemson - Deshaun Watson
2017 Clemson - Kelly Bryant
2018 Clemson - Trevor Lawrence
2019 Clemson - Trevor Lawrence
2020 Clemson - Trevor Lawrence
2021 Pitt - Kenny Pickett
2022 Clemson - DJ Uiagalelei
2023 FSU - Jordan Travis
2024 Clemson - Cade Klubnik

Obviously, some of them didn't deserve to be 5* or go in the first round. However, 13 out of 15 still fall into at leat one of those categories.


Since 2004, we have started:
Kirby Freeman
Kyle Wright
Robert Marve
Jacory Harris
Stephen Morris
Brad Kaaya
Malik Rosier
N'Kosi Perry
Jarren Williams
D'Eriq King
Tyler Van Dyke
Jake Garcia
Jacurri Brown
Emory Williams
Cam Ward

Not only was Kaaya our first, and currently the ONLY, QB drafted since Dorsey in 2003, Kaaya was also our highest drafted QB (31st pick in the 6th round - 215 overall) since Erickson in 1990 (20th pick in the 5th round 131 overall).

Cam will be the ONLY QB we've had drafted before the 5th round since Walsh back in 1989.
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Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner.
 
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bdcane4eva said:
too many guys didnt even read....this is about us vs ACC
the eyes dont lie, common sense dont lie
for 20 years we been doin the same **** thing no matter the coach...lose to teams we out-talent by a mile once there is tape on us...coach after coach after coach
what does that tell you?
oh, and we'll do the same **** again next year for all the "now we've fixed everything" people
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Valid take. I had to dial back some of my intial thoughts because there is definitely a talent gap between us and the national powers. However, when compared solely to ACC, things fall in line as you and Relly pointed out.
 
FuriousStyles said:
Spot on post… you’ve laid out what felt to be true for some time. We haven’t been as talented deficient as some would like to think. The W’s vs L’s you referenced against that competition is .500. While there’s concern for whether we have the talent to compete against the Ohio State’s of the world we cant get passed UNC?

Lack of talent didn’t keep us out of the ACC championship game this year.
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RozayCane said:
Coaching and QB play has killed us the last 20 plus years.

We seem to finally be fixing the QB part.
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Hard to believe it has been almost 40 years since we had a QB who'd spent any significant time as an NFL starter. Sad and WTF...
 
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OptimusCreampie said:
I’m just putting this out there that is the worst Miami roster I’ve ever seen here. Nothing like a gattis power scheme with Lucious Stanley toting the rock behind an oline across the board of 6’ 2 and 290 pounds.
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Gattis made a bad roster even worse!

In the 2022 game against FSU we were down 14-3 when we started a drive from our own 2 yard line.

What does Gattis call? A Lucious Stanley draw.

We started another drive our own 2, this time down 21-3.

What does Gattis call? Another Lucious Stanley draw.

Those were Stanley's 4th and 5th carries of the year and his only carries of the game. Its like he was trying to sabotage us.
 
Angry Ibis said:
Agreed. Administration. Coaching. ******* laughable. Has not changed much. Sad.
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I think we’re in a good spot, to be fair. Mario is a good football coach. He’s got his warts, no doubt. But he’s not incapable of building a good program. We actually have some financial support we haven’t in a long time. We’re recruiting very well. We’re getting good players at the most important positions on the field.

10-2, while disappointing all things considered, is still a 10-2 season. We fielded the best offense in the history of the school. That’s not nothing. We didn’t win anything, because we’re not allowed to have nice things. We know this. But I think Mario is building a sustaining program here. I’m excited for the 2025 season. The schedule is actually very fun and the team should be pretty good again.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
I think we’re in a good spot, to be fair. Mario is a good football coach. He’s got his warts, no doubt. But he’s not incapable of building a good program. We actually have some financial support we haven’t in a long time. We’re recruiting very well. We’re getting good players at the most important positions on the field.

10-2, while disappointing all things considered, is still a 10-2 season. We fielded the best offense in the history of the school. That’s not nothing. We didn’t win anything, because we’re not allowed to have nice things. We know this. But I think Mario is building a sustaining program here. I’m excited for the 2025 season. The schedule is actually very fun and the team should be pretty good again.
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2024 was a nice season. He is still a corch, takes forever to adjust and the athletic department's friends and family attitude is awful -- we mocked the **** out of nepotism with Richt, Mayor Jr Manny, etc., so I am not OK with the same hiring process and administration at the most important time in our history...

2025 is a big season -- it should be make or break for Mario and the Administration -- we will see how it plays out. Lots of time, but lots to add to the roster.
 
SCarolina Ibis said:
Gattis made a bad roster even worse!

In the 2022 game against FSU we were down 14-3 when we started a drive from our own 2 yard line.

What does Gattis call? A Lucious Stanley draw.

We started another drive our own 2, this time down 21-3.

What does Gattis call? Another Lucious Stanley draw.

Those were Stanley's 4th and 5th carries of the year and his only carries of the game. Its like he was trying to sabotage us.
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This was my biggest issue with Gattis. He didn’t have any type of ace up his sleeve. There are certain scenarios during big games where you need a play caller to use one of his “go to” plays. The ones that always work well in practice that you call when you NEED to get something going. Gattis didn’t have that. His terrible passing offense would sputter and he’d completely go in a shell and just pound the run. Second and 8? Run it. Third and goal from the 6? Run it. I remember being at the Southern Miss game that year with my pop thinking “we’re in trouble if this is all he’s got”. Yeah we ran the ball pretty consistently against them. Enough to where the game wasn’t really in doubt but it was just a bunch of Henry Parrish 4 yard runs. They’d keep the chains moving and drained the clock but there was no explosive plays. Just slowing moving the ball 4 yards at a time against a much weaker opponent. He tried to get cute with the passing game early but nothing was working so he just threw in the towel and gave up on having a functioning offense.
 
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