My thoughts on the class (long)

[sebastian91]

There are two schools of thought with this recruiting class.

One group is disappointed because they know what this class could have been. These fans have lost faith in the staff’s ability to coach, so they believe we need superstar classes to compete with the big boys.

The second group is happy about the kids we actually signed and doesn’t worry about the misses. These fans have full faith in Golden and believe it’s only a matter of time before Miami is back on top.

This is just dumb. The vast majority of us are firmly in the middle of these two groups. The same few people from each group posting 50,000 times a day doesn't mean that those are the only two groups.

If we're so stubborn on size, why did we sign Berrios? Kinda shoots down the McKenzie argument, no? And come on, Dowels? Offers from Rutgers, Utah, Appalachian State, NIU, and Cuse? That's the kind of kid that this and previous staffs have gotten murdered for signing in the past.

Are you suggesting that Miami coaches start the rumors of kids getting paid because they can't admit defeat? You lose all credibility with me if that's the case.

How was Powell's defection a total ***** up?

It's a little contradictory to say that QB is the strongest position in the class, but the QB recruiting was 'clumsy' (I happen to agree with the latter, although that has nothing to do with Flowers or Treon).

I agree with the rest.

Dowels was Broward player of the year and got offered by A&M, Clemson, and Oklahoma. Nice for you to leave that out

Not according to 247, he didn't have those offers. Why don't you list out the places he took OVs to? Then explain to me why he took those visits instead of going to A&M, Oklahoma, and Clemson. Then explain to me why he picked Syracuse. Thanks in advance.

 

[fincane]

This is just dumb. The vast majority of us are firmly in the middle of these two groups. The same few people from each group posting 50,000 times a day doesn't mean that those are the only two groups.

If we're so stubborn on size, why did we sign Berrios? Kinda shoots down the McKenzie argument, no? And come on, Dowels? Offers from Rutgers, Utah, Appalachian State, NIU, and Cuse? That's the kind of kid that this and previous staffs have gotten murdered for signing in the past.

Are you suggesting that Miami coaches start the rumors of kids getting paid because they can't admit defeat? You lose all credibility with me if that's the case.

How was Powell's defection a total ***** up?

It's a little contradictory to say that QB is the strongest position in the class, but the QB recruiting was 'clumsy' (I happen to agree with the latter, although that has nothing to do with Flowers or Treon).

I agree with the rest.

Dowels was Broward player of the year and got offered by A&M, Clemson, and Oklahoma. Nice for you to leave that out

When the facts don't fit your argument, avoid the facts.

Actually Sebastian addressed that directly, then why would he choose Syracuse if he could have gone to Ok or A&M?

Why would AQM choose Miami when he could go to Bama?

Ask Chad Thomas.

Dowels visited Northern Illinios, Utah, Rutgers and Cuse. IF all those high level BCS offers were really on the table why didn't he at least visit those schools. If you want to try to sell me on him falling in love with Syracuse go ahead. But no way you can sell me on why he didn't at least visit places like Clemson, A&M and Oklahoma if they really had a spot waiting for him.

edit: I see sebastian made my point first.

 

[Nopain]

Why are we surprided that Powell flipped? He came right out and said he was a Gator fan and was waiting for their offer. I think we were his plan B, and he finally got the offer he wanted. The only thing that could have changed things was an early signing period.

I am also never surprised that more kids flip away from UM than to UM at the last minute. Look at it from a kids viewpoint. They grew up in Miami, and have always followed the Canes. Unfortunately, in the last 2-3 weeks of a recruiting cycle they vist Bama, LSU, etc., and are totally blown away by the facilities, the atmosphere, and the BS handed to them by the coach. I am not shocked that they get emotionally carried away by this, and end up signing with these other schools. Look at Chad Thomas, a "UM lock" all year. How much better must the experience be at Bama to make him actually think about flipping. Face it, the kids who come here are going to be the ones who want to come here no matter what...no matter who the coach is, no matter what the facilities are like...

We just don't have the overwhelming kinds of facilities or experience that are going to turn most kids to us at the last minute. Good or bad, kids today are into the flash and in that we just can't compete (at least not until we are winning championships again).

 

[am1640]

1) If you think Berrios and McKenzie are the same size then you obviously havent seen either. Berrios is a thicker build. (More Smoss like) and Mckenzie is more Roscoe Parrish. Golden is like Butch. He doesnt like frail looking athletes. Shrugs. We will see if he was dumb or not very soon for not offering. We know how Roscoe turned out.

yeah, I don't know why when people discuss McKenzie's size they don't address the real issue. It's not height, it's that he can still make weight for a optimist game. No denying kid was arguable the best player on the field for AH for a majority of the games the last two seasons, but let's not ignore the elephant in the room. Kid was laying on the field stankin more than once. With the big deal made about head injuries now a days a kid that's had multiple run ins with getting his bell rung can be a cause for concern especially after the Witt ordeal.

Also as someone mentioned Mayes was one of Luke's kids. Luke was a guy Miami coaches appeared to have been trying to mend fences with. Last spring if Ice was 1a of guys who the "politicians" felt needed ball stoking, then Luke was 1b. Chad was no where in the conversation, so it silly to do revisionist history now bec Chad and Quincy turned out to be major mitches.

 

[sebastian91]

1) If you think Berrios and McKenzie are the same size then you obviously havent seen either. Berrios is a thicker build. (More Smoss like) and Mckenzie is more Roscoe Parrish. Golden is like Butch. He doesnt like frail looking athletes. Shrugs. We will see if he was dumb or not very soon for not offering. We know how Roscoe turned out.

2) As far as Dowels, I will let WildcatDefense dig in your a$$ on this one. Im sure he will be here in a minute..

3) And as far as Powell is concerned. This is the coaches fault. But I guess they were too busy worrying about DCook that they let this guy slip through the cracks. (Or thats prob how Powell felt)

As somone once told me, "You messin' up yo' fa sho pu$$y, tryna get some mo' pu$$y".. Powell was in the bag and we let him get away. And Cook ended up gettin away in the end anyway. Smh.

1. Berrios and McKenzie are listed as being virtually the same size by 247. Hey, maybe that's deceiving, but the fact is that Berrios is small. If the coaches are so stubborn on size, why Berrios? We had Bethel committed for a long time. Dixon isn't 6', and we wanted him. They went out and signed Corn Elder late in the cycle last season. RLIII is small (extenuating circumstances acknowledged). Anyway, I don't see this stubbornness on size that he claims. Berrios is an off-the-charts athlete, and Kaaya wanted him badly. That's good enough for me, and best of luck to McKenzie, who I think will be very good. And if Golden is like Butch, I'll take that all day.

2. Dowels is a great football player. I really like the way he plays, so there's no need for Wildcat to come in and defend him. However, when the kid's best offer is Syracuse (no way he had offers from Clemson and Oklahoma like he claims), well, Miami isn't the only team missing out.

3. How is something relating to transcripts the coaches' fault? No one has even tried to answer that question. The kid wanted an out, UF.ag was the offer he wanted, and he took it when it came. Simple as that. If the kid wanted to be a Cane, he would've waited the 2 days like Yearby did.

 

[sebastian91]

Sebas 91-You have to be the most arrogant buffoon on god living earth.. Good lawd,, Not agreeing with something its part of human nature, but are you related to "Scott" from the "Kardashians" ? I ask cuz you reek like a total "DOUCHER". Dude, get a grip and wake the **** up. Remove all that "Moco De Gorila Gel" from you hair and put your custom fit "Polo" - sweater down and listen for once as opposed to debating everything and claiming you are the brightest ************ out there brother. I promise you wont live past 60 years old if you continue to take life too ******* seriously my "Ninja".
No beef bra!

Meh, sometimes you have to fight arrogance with arrogance, and I'm not even Italian! I actually agree with a lot of what D$ said, but I can't stand it when people get up on their soapbox and toss out criticisms that aren't backed up by logic or facts. That doesn't make me brighter than anyone else, but it does make me more grounded and rational. No beef!

 

[CANE4LIFE]

I agree with most of D$'s perspective. I see the class as in the middle of the extremes, but certainly more towards the upside than the downside. I think we addressed some very critical areas and got some real talent. No question it could have been better, but this was a team that really crawled into the finish line at the end of the year. There is also not question the staff is making mistakes. My biggest concern is Donofrio, as nothing postitive seems to come from that guy.

As for the SFE stuff and U School, I suspect there is a lot more going on there than meets they eye. At U School, there is clearly some kind or bad blood/disconnect between UM and that program. As for SFE and the 7 on 7s, I think that is more a product of the shady nature of what is going on there, and I suspect the staff is very leery of the characters they have to deal with for some of those kids.

I do agree that the staff need to look more "big picture" in terms of the relationships in So Fla, but at the same time, its a slippery slope. I mean every year is going to have someone's "son" ,"nephew", "Cousin", "friend", "Godson", etc.... wether its Ice Harris, Chad Wilson, or one of two dozen coaches in the Tri County area.

The one thing I will say for this staff is, they seem a little more in tune than Shannon was. Ive come to firmly believe that Shannon simply threw his hands up and stopped dealing with many programs and areas because of the "handlers" coaches, "mentors" etc.... and stuck to the places he was comfortable in. I think Golden has certainly tried harder to mend some of those relationships and get back into many of those schools, and deal with some "handlers" but I think they are still treading very carefully. I think that is one thing Coley was brought in for, to navigate that cesspool. Overall we had a pretty good distribution for So Fla this year. BTW, MNW, Central, STA, Carol City, Homestead, ELy, lot of the best So Fla programs represented. Its gotten better, but there is long way still to go.

 

[HurricaneU]

Other programs playing chess while we're still playing checkers.

 

[DMoney]

Sebastian,

What point are you trying to make here? You admit that McKenzie and Dowels are great players, but then attack me for criticizing how the staff evaluated them. Huh?

You are disagreeing simply to disagree. You don't like me and got embarrassed when I dismantled your post earlier in this thread. That's it. But since this is a discussion board, let's play:

Berrios and McKenzie are listed as being virtually the same size by 247. Hey, maybe that's deceiving, but the fact is that Berrios is small. If the coaches are so stubborn on size, why Berrios?

Berrios is heavier and stronger than McKenzie. But we were stubborn with him, too. Berrios dominated our camp and didn't get an offer. He needed to go to Oregon, dominate out there, and have Brad Kaaya beg for him to finally get an offer. If the guy wasn't a die-hard Miami fan, he would've said "F-you" and we never would've gotten him.

As for McKenzie, if we passed on him for any reason other than size (which we didn't), that's even worse. You concede that McKenzie will be very good. Why do you think we passed on him? Was that not a mistake?

Dowels is a great football player. I really like the way he plays, so there's no need for Wildcat to come in and defend him. However, when the kid's best offer is Syracuse (no way he had offers from Clemson and Oklahoma like he claims), well, Miami isn't the only team missing out.

So let me make sure I have your arguments straight:

1) Dowels and his coaches are lying about his offers.
2) Dowels is a great player.
3) His offer sheet is weak, so that justifies the lack of an offer.

Just out of curiosity, can you tell me the schools that have offered Ryan Mayes? Thanks in advance.

3. How is something relating to transcripts the coaches' fault? No one has even tried to answer that question. The kid wanted an out, UF.ag was the offer he wanted, and he took it when it came. Simple as that. If the kid wanted to be a Cane, he would've waited the 2 days like Yearby did.

Coaches are often tasked with certain paperwork responsibilities with getting a recruit into a school. I'll leave it at that.

But even putting the admission issue to the side, how is it not a *****-up to lose a four-star commit at a need position to a rival school the day before he is supposed to enroll? That is a failure of recruiting.

You are making arguments for the sake of arguing. And they aren't good ones.

 

[Joecane]

How does "other schools are going to miss out too" justify not offering a local baller? HOLY MOLY DOUGHNUTS BUDDY.

Hey, about 100 other schools missed out on Gio Bernard, so it's all good.

 

[Don Caneleone]

This program won a whole lot of championships with kids like McKenzie. You know, playmakers with big hearts.

 

[sebastian91]

D$, I disagree with you. That doesn't mean I don't like you. I'm arguing with you because I disagree with you, and I don't think you've dismantled anything, but if it makes you feel better to pump out your chest, so be it. Logic doesn't support some of your arguments, but they do support mine. I've pointed out those cases and asked questions, which you haven't answered. My position is that McKenzie and Dowels are excellent football players, but so are the ones we signed. We can't take them all, and it's up to the coaches to make those decisions. Time will tell if those decisions were mistakes or not, and their jobs depend on the outcomes. Agree to disagree.

 

[De Pinga]

D$, I disagree with you. That doesn't mean I don't like you. I'm arguing with you because I disagree with you, and I don't think you've dismantled anything, but if it makes you feel better to pump out your chest, so be it. Logic doesn't support some of your arguments, but they do support mine. I've pointed out those cases and asked questions, which you haven't answered. My position is that McKenzie and Dowels are excellent football players, but so are the ones we signed. We can't take them all, and it's up to the coaches to make those decisions. Time will tell if those decisions were mistakes or not, and their jobs depend on the outcomes. Agree to disagree.

Mayes offer sheet..... I WANT ANSWERS NOW

 

[sebastian91]

D$, I disagree with you. That doesn't mean I don't like you. I'm arguing with you because I disagree with you, and I don't think you've dismantled anything, but if it makes you feel better to pump out your chest, so be it. Logic doesn't support some of your arguments, but they do support mine. I've pointed out those cases and asked questions, which you haven't answered. My position is that McKenzie and Dowels are excellent football players, but so are the ones we signed. We can't take them all, and it's up to the coaches to make those decisions. Time will tell if those decisions were mistakes or not, and their jobs depend on the outcomes. Agree to disagree.

Mayes offer sheet..... I WANT ANSWERS NOW

FAU, FIU, Cuse, BC, and Miami according to 247. Mayes projects as a safety, correct? Safety is a bigger position of need than CB, correct? Mayes is a local kid from a feeder school, correct? Now we don't want the staff to offer and sign local kids?

 

[Joecane]

American Heritage isn't local?

 

[MarcoD70]

I think there was a genuine concern over backlash and bad press WHEN Harris and/or Wilson didn't make it at those chosen positions. This staff probably felt going this route was the lesser of two evils.

But is it the lesser of two evils? There's already a backlash, especially with Wilson. There is less of a public relations concern when you give a guy a shot and he fails, IMO.

In a perfect world you are right. But you know as well as I do that if, for example, Harris comes here and "fails" as a QB, guys like Ice will start talkin sh*t about Golden never giving him a chance, etc...wasting his time.
I honestly feel that the staff thought it best to be honest and upfront about THEIR intentions right away. I think the late offer was probably more of a PR stunt than anything.

 

[Bennubird]

I think DMoney has pretty much nailed it. I wanted to write a long post about Gary Williams stepping down as the HC of basketball at University of Maryland over his disgust with having to deal with third party influencers on recruiting who use the AAU circuit to set themselves up, but in a nutshell HurricaneU summed up what I wanted to say. Many of these kids have handlers, diva attitudes, etc. either you learn how to effectively deal with it or you end up losing to Duke by three TDs. And for the record I don't like the ugly underside of the recruiting game, but it is what it is. Either you have to find a way to transform the system, adapt to it, or be satisfied with being a middle of the road ACC team. I do like our class and think a few of the kids can help us early, but we missed on too many from our recruiting base who are difference makers.

Other programs playing chess while we're still playing checkers.

 

[sebastian91]

American Heritage isn't local?

Never said it wasn't.

 

[hoover437]

There are two schools of thought with this recruiting class.

One group is disappointed because they know what this class could have been. These fans have lost faith in the staff’s ability to coach, so they believe we need superstar classes to compete with the big boys.

The second group is happy about the kids we actually signed and doesn’t worry about the misses. These fans have full faith in Golden and believe it’s only a matter of time before Miami is back on top.

The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

It’s impossible to ignore the mistakes that kept us from capitalizing on South Florida’s bumper crop. We lost head-to-head battles for Valentine, Sony, Cook, Dixon and Rudolph. Everybody has heard the money rumors, and there may be some truth there. But more often than not, these rumors come from highly competitive coaches who can’t admit defeat. We got beat on these guys.

We’re still stubborn on size. I thought we were done with this crap when Golden came in and offered Dallas Crawford. But this year, we turned down Juwon Dowels and Isaiah McKenzie simply because they were too small. That’s disappointing.

Brandon Powell’s defection was a total ***** up. No other way to put it.

We were clumsy in our QB recruiting after Kaaya. Before the season, I advocated offering Kaaya, Treon Harris and Winky Flowers. We ended up doing exactly that, except we waited too long to offer Treon and offered a similar out-of-state player (Rosier) instead of Winky. If we followed the right blueprint, we could’ve signed two of the best athletes in Miami.

We offered Ryan Mayes instead of taking a similar player (Quincy Wilson) with Canes blood and extensive connections to the local football community. Wilson is by no means a perfect prospect, but this move revealed two flaws in our approach: an inability to think big-picture and an overemphasis on the Golden Camp. We make too many decisions based on workouts in shirts and shorts.

Finally, the defensive scheme is the new “cloud.” High school coaches are talking about it and college coaches are using it against us. If the results don’t change, this will do even more damage than the NCAA ever could.

But even with all of these issues, I feel the same way that Coach Golden felt in his NSD press conference: confident and comfortable.

The word to describe this class is “healthy.” There is balance across the board. The two most important positions in football—quarterback and defensive line—are the strongest positions in the class. Kaaya is our biggest coup in years. We’ve accumulated a stable of talented and hungry pass-rushers. The offensive line is in terrific shape. Kiy Hester will provide safety depth right away, and Berrios will emerge as a Shockey-type fan favorite.

If Golden is the man for the job, he has enough to win with. If he’s not, the next guy will have a balanced roster without the gaping holes that Coker and Shannon left behind.

More than anything, I just love seeing kids like Demetrius Jackson and Trayon Gray shed tears for the colors. I don’t care if it’s corny. Last year was the roughest NSD in ages, but we will always remember Stacy Coley putting on the Swag hat. These guys will represent the Canes for the next few years and maybe the next decade in the pros. Forget about the coaches. That’s what this day is about.

Welcome to Miami, fellas. Let’s go get number six.

good post Dmoney, however some of this stuff is just crazy. Seems Powell was looking for the best opportunity from the beginning. How many times with he go back and forward with us and Tennessee? As for admissions, others waited it out. just saying.

On size, how big is corn elder?

As for the misses, just seems more to it than just the basic data you put here. Kids want to play and play early.

 

[User-4525]

Mayes was offered at Al Goldens camp as a cornerback. Fact