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My opinion

Peter Ariz

Peter Ariz

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Without touching on defensive schemes or Golden as a game day coach.....there are just too many JAGs on this team. Let's look at the first two classes Golden brought in.

2011

Dalton Botts - was a good punter

Anthony Chickillo - average at best

Dallas Crawford - solid contributor

Phillip Dorsett - very productive player

Thomas Finnie - no longer at Miami

Matt Goudis - JAG kicker

Jalen Grimble - no longer at Miami

Kevin Grooms - at Marshall

Eddie Johnson - we know the story

Antonio Kinard - did not qualify

Gionni Paul - no longer at Miami

Denzel Perryman - best player in the class

Olsen Pierre - has showed flashes, but JAG

Rashawn Scott - talented player, hasn't stayed healthy enough/out of trouble

Ricardo Williams - no longer at Miami

Thurston Armbrister - JAG

Corey King - Head of the JAG committee

Darius Smith - graduated, but he was a JAG

2012

Jawand Blue - JAG

Jacoby Briscoe - no longer at Miami

Deon Bush - needs to stay healthy, but very promising player

Jontavious Carter - no longer at Miami

Antonio Crawford - very good player, needs to show consistency

Gray Crow - can't really label him a JAG because of the position he plays. He is doing what most expected him to do up to now

Vernon Davis - no longer at Miami

Preston Dewey - no longer playing football

Danny Dillard - no longer at Miami

Nate Dortch - still think he can contribute eventually

Ereck Flowers - stud, 1st rounder next year

Taylor Gadbois - JAG

Ladarius Gunter - very good corner

Jelani Hamilton - JAG

Dwayne Hoilett - JAG

Larry Hope - JAG

Tracy Howard - stud

Daniel Isidora - has been injured, but still see him as a starter down the line

Dequan Ivery - no longer at Miami

Angelo Jean-Louis - did not qualify

Rayshawn Jenkins - stud

Randy Johnson - we know the deal

D'Mauri Jones - JAG

Raphael Kirby - JAG

Malcolm Lewis - looked like a stud until injury

Robert Lockhart - no longer at Miami

Tyriq McCord - stud

Earl Moore - young player who was thrust into playing time last season, JAG

Jake O'Donnell - I think he will contribute as a blocking TE eventually

Gabriel Terry - no longer at Miami

David Thompson - playing baseball only

Herb Waters - has produced big plays, needs consistency

Josh Witt - no longer playing football (head injuries)

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I counted 31 out of 51 as guys who either aren't on the team anymore, did not qualify, or are JAGS. No coach ever hits on all of his recruits, but this is a staggering number.

Some will disagree on who is a JAG and who isn't, but the premise here is that there are too many of them on the roster. I will hold judgement on the 2013 class because it is so early.
 
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The misses at QB, RB, DL, and LB, to be even more specific. Personnel-wise I think we're good enough to challenge for the ACC in an normal year (i.e. not FSU once-a-decade-team season like this) except those 4 spots right now.
 
This defense has so many JAGs that its comical. I dont care what scheme we play, we have horrible talent on D.

Chick - Average - Should be moved inside
Shayon - JAG - Couldnt cover my grandma on a pass route
Kirby - JAG - Slow as molasses and cant tackle
Cornileus - JAG -
Pierre - JAG - No push up front
Robinson - JAG - No Push up front
Highsmith - WOAT - has dirty photos on doritos
Rogers - JAG-
 
A lot of highly recruited guys. How many of those guys labled jags are due to scheme? You have McCord labeled a stud but hes not on the field much and its been awhile since hes made a meaningful play.
 
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I don't know what to think anymore.

Could be the JAGs, could be the scheme.

Probably both.

/****
 
I have been saying this for a while, Golden is pretty overrated as a recruiter and talent evaluator. We were very lucky to have Duke in the 2012 class because he was our best recruiter.

I can't really put 2011 on him though as he just got there and Shannon didn't leave him with much but 2012 isn't looking all that great depth wise. Part of the problem, and I tried pointing this out earlier in the week is all his camp guys. The great majority have yet to do anything or are already gone.
 
Guys on D aren't JAGs. They were heavily recruited by other programs.

Our D scheme has them waiting and reacting instead of attacking. Too many times I see Chick trying his best to keep contain instead of just bull rushing to the QB. Then you got studs like Tracy Howard playing 10 yards off of a walk on WR. They aren't jags but this scheme is for jags

Our LBers are sitting on islands vs quick slot WRs. Our safeties are 25 yards downfield. Highsmith is still playing for some reason
 
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The guys who are labeled JAGS, are guys given offers to at camp by Golden...I'm all for rewarding effort but when half of your recruiting class has offers from Temple, Marshall, and Toledo what type of play you are u expected to get out of them? Same with the guys labeled under development. Those guys labeled as studs were coveted by many BCS programs, so no understanding needed on why their studs. Some of The no longer at Miami guys were bad asses, the guys you would see JJ, Butch, etc recruit and turn into all-americans, but to Golden they weren't following the Golden Road of being good guys...in Golden defense, one thing i can say about this 2014 class is there are straight studs, not as many camp offer guys as his last 2 recruiting cycles. But if it's not a change in offensive and defensive philosophy they will all suffer the same fate here as those mentioned above
 
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Unfortunately can't disagree with many of the labels there. Some of them may have been studs for Temple, but not here.

I know every team has attrition, but **** we have a lot.
 
Canes_ said:
I have been saying this for a while, Golden is pretty overrated as a recruiter and talent evaluator. We were very lucky to have Duke in the 2012 class because he was our best recruiter.

I can't really put 2011 on him though as he just got there and Shannon didn't leave him with much but 2012 isn't looking all that great depth wise. Part of the problem, and I tried pointing this out earlier in the week is all his camp guys. The great majority have yet to do anything or are already gone.
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What about this year?
 
Jax Cane said:
This defense has so many JAGs that its comical. I dont care what scheme we play, we have horrible talent on D.

Chick - Average - Should be moved inside
Shayon - JAG - Couldnt cover my grandma on a pass route
Kirby - JAG - Slow as molasses and cant tackle
Cornileus - JAG -
Pierre - JAG - No push up front
Robinson - JAG - No Push up front
Highsmith - WOAT - has dirty photos on doritos
Rogers - JAG-
Click to expand...

Chick - he would be playing inside if we were running a 4-3 one-gap scheme.
Shayon - then why does our DC ask him to cover?
Pierre - why are we asking him to 2-gap? He's a prototype 4-3 3-technique
Robinson - see Pierre
Highsmith - why is he on the field then?
Rogers - see Highsmith
 
good post pete. i think jelani and earl moore might be better than jags at one point but where is the nfl talent? its all in fresh and soph. our best pass rushers are a true soph in mccord and aqm who is a fresh who arrived last minute. if chickillo had a different last name we would accept what he is. Tracy, deon, jenkins, Coley, AQM, Grace, duke, etc all have nfl talent. these kids are going to be special. we just need patience and realize we werent a bcs team this year. if we finish with only 3 losses, that's very good imho.
 
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ssj4cane said:
A lot of highly recruited guys. How many of those guys labled jags are due to scheme? You have McCord labeled a stud but hes not on the field much and its been awhile since hes made a meaningful play.
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This.

Too many highly recruited players are becoming jags here. It's the scheme they are placed in. Raphael Kirby is supremely athletic......but having him run to an X on the field then have to run way the **** back to the ball makes him look like ****
 
i think kirby will be good. he has the instincts. this is really his freshman year. last year he came in very late after an injury.
 
Every coach for the last ten years has recruit top classes that all seem to underwhelm. At what point do we acknowledge that our program lacks the resources to develop these kids properly?? Or cares so much about their grades and behavior that none are left over for development?
 
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datcaneguy said:
The guys who are labeled JAGS, are guys given offers to at camp by Golden...I'm all for rewarding effort but when half of your recruiting class has offers from Temple, Marshall, and Toledo what type of play you are u expected to get out of them? Same with the guys labeled under development. Those guys labeled as studs were coveted by many BCS programs, so no understanding needed on why their studs. Some of The no longer at Miami guys were bad asses, the guys you would see JJ, Butch, etc recruit and turn into all-americans, but to Golden they weren't following the Golden Road of being good guys...in Golden defense, one thing i can say about this 2014 class is there are straight studs, not as many camp offer guys as his last 2 recruiting cycles. But if it's not a change in offensive and defensive philosophy they will all suffer the same fate here as those mentioned above
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Exactly. The 2012 was his first class and I think it took him a bit to change his mentality because he was just offering and taking any guy who performed well at his camps. The concerning thing is most if not all of his evaluations look bad as of now.

Hoilett, Hope, Davis, O'Donell, Carter, Jones, etc were guys that weren't being recruited by notable teams. At the end of the day, stars are a good indicator of talent but to me offers are bigger. Who wants the guy's you're bringing in?
 
nystateofmind said:
Canes_ said:
I have been saying this for a while, Golden is pretty overrated as a recruiter and talent evaluator. We were very lucky to have Duke in the 2012 class because he was our best recruiter.

I can't really put 2011 on him though as he just got there and Shannon didn't leave him with much but 2012 isn't looking all that great depth wise. Part of the problem, and I tried pointing this out earlier in the week is all his camp guys. The great majority have yet to do anything or are already gone.
Click to expand...

What about this year?
Click to expand...

Our class this year is very good and addresses needs. Would like a safety though.
 
5Ringz said:
Guys on D aren't JAGs. They were heavily recruited by other programs.

Our D scheme has them waiting and reacting instead of attacking. Too many times I see Chick trying his best to keep contain instead of just bull rushing to the QB. Then you got studs like Tracy Howard playing 10 yards off of a walk on WR. They aren't jags but this scheme is for jags

Our LBers are sitting on islands vs quick slot WRs. Our safeties are 25 yards downfield. Highsmith is still playing for some reason
Click to expand...

I actually agree with a lot of this. Players are going to look a lot worse when they are asked to play against their strengths. IMO scheme has everything to do with what we are seeing on defense. Lets not forget we returned 10+ guys who started games on defense last year. If they are still making mental mistakes then its on D'Onfrio and Golden.

Perfect example: You have McCord listed as a stud but he sees maybe 15 snaps a game.

I think that wasn't a very good post by Pete
 
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