Let’s talk about recruiting from a staff perspective (not about recruits)

There is a lot of talk about recruiting in connection with the staff changes. I myself have expressed concerns about Manny in this regard. Others have talked about whether someone is or isn’t a good recruiter based on their selling ability, or perceived evaluations. Given how important this topic is to the future of the program, I thought it was worth a thread - not on the recruiting board, but here, as a matter of team management.

First, recruiting is about both evaluations and selling. I have been yapping about evaluations on these boards since early in the Coker years. But evals and selling are outcomes. You don’t get there effectively without a detailed plan and disciplined process. That’s where I’d start.

From the HC and staff perspective, a good recruiting plan requires clear prioritization. What approach, what qualities/types of kids, how to approach local schools and kids and issues, where and how and when to assess kids, how much information is enough, where the bar is set by position and year, how to balance roster spots amongst positions, how to balance types of kid by personality, ceiling, risk, dependability, readiness, etc., how many offers to send out, and when, what spots in any given year you go out of area for earliest, how to divide recruiting responsibilities amongst staff members, how to support recruiting in this new social media era, how to make sure staff members are doing their jobs well as the year unfolds, how to collectovely assess so it’s not different coaches deciding differently based on position groups, how to balance settling vs. holding out for better prospects, how to handle communications with HS coaches and parents, how to move on from a kid while minimizing fall-out, how to maintain contact and have back up plans, how to create perception of momentum, and on and on. And importantly, how to pay enough attention (and who to listen to) so that you don’t have message board regulars better informed than our staff, which has clearly happened in many instances over the past many years.

All of these issues require thought, a process, and a Head Coach to monitor them. Importantly, most to all of that can be done by a good manager. It does not require a great salesman, though that obviously helps. And it does not require a Hc to be a great evaluator, though that clearly helps also. It requires only the right plan, and the right input into evaluations, a discipline to stick to the process and know what you want, and urgency at getting at it. The salesmen can be assistant coaches. And while the HC needs a view on evaluations, a good process can narrow the choices a lot and help generally improve selections.

This stuff sounds obvious, but our last three coaches did an absolutely awful job on this topic. Not only in their down years but even their supposed good years. Recruiting used to be a lot about knowing local high school coaches and picking amongst local kids. Those things still matter, but in this new era, it’s totally changed. There is so much more information on so many more kids. It’s ripe for a Money Ball type approach with data and dicipline to free up coaches to spend their time in the best ways possible, in recruiting and otherwise.

IMO Manny can get this right, if he recognizes the importance of recruiting and prioritizes and resources around it. But I have no idea if he will. His record as DC was not comforting as far as recruiting goes, but his approach so far as a HC gives me some optimism.

@LuCane
Agree all the way.... question I need answered a lil confused. When recruiting on both sides of the ball the OC and DC give the position coaches a list of the players they want to go after or the position coaches give the Coordinator a position list of what they feel? What is the procedures of this?
 
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D$, for you.

Revisiting the OP on the wake of yesterday and this thread discussion. There is no limit to where and how you spend your time and effort in recruiting. The key is to spend time and effort effectively. To do that, you need a plan, priorities and clear sense of how to make decisions. What’s missing on the list? Does Diaz have a detailed approach to this?

Planning
  • Philosophy / Approach: type of schemes, style and culture, and the types of kids who fit that; how we approch local kids, local coaches, community matters etc.; how we generally want to allocate scholarships against positions
  • Resources: staff, third party services, data systems, comms systems, on campus camps, other on-campus events and resources, access to game tape, overall budget
  • Roster assessment: critical evaluation of needs 1-3 years out, to inform prioritization
  • Process: how we divide up responsibilities, how we check in, discuss, authorities to decide at different stages, and how we monitor and course correct. How we decide on offers. Amount of offers, timing of offers. When to take commitments, which ones to take, how to prioritize, how to move on. What spots in any given year you go out of area for earliest.
  • Evaluation approach: use of camps, game film, live games, coaching assessments, third party assessments; eval criteria generally and by position/year - where is the bar set; how much info is required to offer, to accept an offer, to schedule a visit, etc.
  • Tools, techniques: use of digital/social/texting/other comms; use of camps
  • Marketing: a crisp articulation of what we are selling - what’s the pitch or pitches. Why should kids choose UM. Are we all singing the same tune? Coker sold NFL, Championships, Degree. (Sounded good but he missed the importance of evals and human connection.) Our competitors often sell game day environment, facilities, dorms, coeds, etc. We also can sell local pride, stay home, history etc. But you have to know what you’re pitch is, and what opponents will negative sell about you, and how to respond.
Execution
  • Information gathering: define (and continually reassess) pool to focus on; gather info on kids in pool (measurables, references, background, academics, etc.); understand relationship dynamics amongst local kids (can impact approach); how to know what is really going on (staff should not be surprised when fan boards have known stuff for ages)
  • Evaluations, applied: meet, discuss, assess real time, all year; how decisions are made ... and reevaluated when information or needs change. Most important aspect of recruiting. We’ve all seen the Dorito meeting clip.
  • Selling: Community outreach, communications, on-campus visits, camps on and off-campus, official visits, relationship management, how to create positive peer pressure for kids to come on board and stay on board; how to create perception of momentum, how to gain commitments and how to stay on kids after commitments
  • Touch/feel: how to move on from a kid while minimizing fall-out, how to handle communications with HS coaches and parents, how to balance settling vs. holding out for better prospects, how to cut your losses when needed, how to balance types of kid by personality, ceiling, risk, dependability, readiness, etc.
  • Contingency plans: maintaining contact with kids we are still considering, etc.
 
There is a lot of talk about recruiting in connection with the staff changes. I myself have expressed concerns about Manny in this regard. Others have talked about whether someone is or isn’t a good recruiter based on their selling ability, or perceived evaluations. Given how important this topic is to the future of the program, I thought it was worth a thread - not on the recruiting board, but here, as a matter of team management.

First, recruiting is about both evaluations and selling. I have been yapping about evaluations on these boards since early in the Coker years. But evals and selling are outcomes. You don’t get there effectively without a detailed plan and disciplined process. That’s where I’d start.

From the HC and staff perspective, a good recruiting plan requires clear prioritization. What approach, what qualities/types of kids, how to approach local schools and kids and issues, where and how and when to assess kids, how much information is enough, where the bar is set by position and year, how to balance roster spots amongst positions, how to balance types of kid by personality, ceiling, risk, dependability, readiness, etc., how many offers to send out, and when, what spots in any given year you go out of area for earliest, how to divide recruiting responsibilities amongst staff members, how to support recruiting in this new social media era, how to make sure staff members are doing their jobs well as the year unfolds, how to collectovely assess so it’s not different coaches deciding differently based on position groups, how to balance settling vs. holding out for better prospects, how to handle communications with HS coaches and parents, how to move on from a kid while minimizing fall-out, how to maintain contact and have back up plans, how to create perception of momentum, and on and on. And importantly, how to pay enough attention (and who to listen to) so that you don’t have message board regulars better informed than our staff, which has clearly happened in many instances over the past many years.

All of these issues require thought, a process, and a Head Coach to monitor them. Importantly, most to all of that can be done by a good manager. It does not require a great salesman, though that obviously helps. And it does not require a Hc to be a great evaluator, though that clearly helps also. It requires only the right plan, and the right input into evaluations, a discipline to stick to the process and know what you want, and urgency at getting at it. The salesmen can be assistant coaches. And while the HC needs a view on evaluations, a good process can narrow the choices a lot and help generally improve selections.

This stuff sounds obvious, but our last three coaches did an absolutely awful job on this topic. Not only in their down years but even their supposed good years. Recruiting used to be a lot about knowing local high school coaches and picking amongst local kids. Those things still matter, but in this new era, it’s totally changed. There is so much more information on so many more kids. It’s ripe for a Money Ball type approach with data and dicipline to free up coaches to spend their time in the best ways possible, in recruiting and otherwise.

IMO Manny can get this right, if he recognizes the importance of recruiting and prioritizes and resources around it. But I have no idea if he will. His record as DC was not comforting as far as recruiting goes, but his approach so far as a HC gives me some optimism.

@LuCane

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I wouldnt blame Richt for manny’s recruiting the past few years. Manny is analytical and smart, but the son of the mayor. He’s not a guy from the hood. And he’s not really warm. More personable but driven. He may not have the patience or emotion or connectivity to be a great recruiter. But he can manage recruiting, if he sets his mind to it. And yes, he needs good salespeople amd he needs good evaluators.

Excellent theory. Funny, the elite recruiters, such as Saban, Urban and Smart are cold heartless pricks. Nothing warm about them. That being said, if Diaz wants to compete with these asswhipes he needs to surround himself aggressive recruiters who can establish strong relationships and learn to close the deals.
 
Excellent theory. Funny, the elite recruiters, such as Saban, Urban and Smart are cold heartless pricks. Nothing warm about them. That being said, if Diaz wants to compete with these asswhipes he needs to surround himself aggressive recruiters who can establish strong relationships and learn to close the deals.
That is a complete misunderstanding of those guys and selling. I guarantee when they want to be charming, they are. And they clearly prioritize recruiting. Meyer is known to personally dive in with recruits all the way through the process, as Hc, even on defensive kids, texting them etc. Smart has obviousy priooritized recruiting. And Saban’s focus, resurces and discipline are second to none. And you can be a cold dude, but sell well. Plenty of guys are. That’s not even remotely a new idea.

In any case, we’ll see what Manny brings to the table here.
 
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That is a complete misunderstanding of those guys and selling. I guarantee when they want to be charming, they are. And they clearly prioritize recruiting. Meyer is known to personally dive in with recruits all the way through the process, as Hc, even on defensive kids, texting them etc. Smart has obviousy priooritized recruiting. And Saban’s focus, resurces and discipline are second to none. And you can be a cold dude, but sell well. Plenty of guys are. That’s not even remotely a new idea.

In any case, we’ll see what Manny brings to the table here.

I disagree they are charming; however, I do agree that recruiting has to be a top priority. I believe it was reported Urban was texting kids moments after winning a National Title. That’s commitment. I respect it. Díaz is clearly a good seller. I just don’t understand why recruiting hasn’t been his strongest suit.
 
I disagree they are charming; however, I do agree that recruiting has to be a top priority. I believe it was reported Urban was texting kids moments after winning a National Title. That’s commitment. I respect it. Díaz is clearly a good seller. I just don’t understand why recruiting hasn’t been his strongest suit.
From what Iit looks like to me, he didn’t plan, prioritize or work it. Probably doesn’t like it. Plenty of coaches don’t like recruiting. Dorito didn’t, either.
 
From what Iit looks like to me, he didn’t plan, prioritize or work it. Probably doesn’t like it. Plenty of coaches don’t like recruiting. Dorito didn’t, either.

If that is the case then he isn’t going to work out.
 
If that is the case then he isn’t going to work out.
I started a thread to contend that doesn’t need to be the case. The HC has to define the process and approach and hold people accountable for implementing it. That is a different task from selling. And it is so obviously central to buildijg a team it cannot be lost on him. He may not have liked selling but now his primary job is to get the staff organized on this front. If he doesn’t like selling, he won’t be Urban Meyer as far as recruiting goes. But it doesn’t mean he will fail. But if he doesn’t plan, focus and prioritize recruiting, then he will fail.
 
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just glad richt dull *** is out of there. offense was so bad we basically lost **** near all of our SFLA blue chips. Manny can save this class. we got a whole month left. just do some more homework find the gems
 
D$, for you.

Revisiting the OP on the wake of yesterday and this thread discussion. There is no limit to where and how you spend your time and effort in recruiting. The key is to spend time and effort effectively. To do that, you need a plan, priorities and clear sense of how to make decisions. What’s missing on the list? Does Diaz have a detailed approach to this?

Planning
  • Philosophy / Approach: type of schemes, style and culture, and the types of kids who fit that; how we approch local kids, local coaches, community matters etc.; how we generally want to allocate scholarships against positions
  • Resources: staff, third party services, data systems, comms systems, on campus camps, other on-campus events and resources, access to game tape, overall budget
  • Roster assessment: critical evaluation of needs 1-3 years out, to inform prioritization
  • Process: how we divide up responsibilities, how we check in, discuss, authorities to decide at different stages, and how we monitor and course correct. How we decide on offers. Amount of offers, timing of offers. When to take commitments, which ones to take, how to prioritize, how to move on. What spots in any given year you go out of area for earliest.
  • Evaluation approach: use of camps, game film, live games, coaching assessments, third party assessments; eval criteria generally and by position/year - where is the bar set; how much info is required to offer, to accept an offer, to schedule a visit, etc.
  • Tools, techniques: use of digital/social/texting/other comms; use of camps
  • Marketing: a crisp articulation of what we are selling - what’s the pitch or pitches. Why should kids choose UM. Are we all singing the same tune? Coker sold NFL, Championships, Degree. (Sounded good but he missed the importance of evals and human connection.) Our competitors often sell game day environment, facilities, dorms, coeds, etc. We also can sell local pride, stay home, history etc. But you have to know what you’re pitch is, and what opponents will negative sell about you, and how to respond.
Execution
  • Information gathering: define (and continually reassess) pool to focus on; gather info on kids in pool (measurables, references, background, academics, etc.); understand relationship dynamics amongst local kids (can impact approach); how to know what is really going on (staff should not be surprised when fan boards have known stuff for ages)
  • Evaluations, applied: meet, discuss, assess real time, all year; how decisions are made ... and reevaluated when information or needs change. Most important aspect of recruiting. We’ve all seen the Dorito meeting clip.
  • Selling: Community outreach, communications, on-campus visits, camps on and off-campus, official visits, relationship management, how to create positive peer pressure for kids to come on board and stay on board; how to create perception of momentum, how to gain commitments and how to stay on kids after commitments
  • Touch/feel: how to move on from a kid while minimizing fall-out, how to handle communications with HS coaches and parents, how to balance settling vs. holding out for better prospects, how to cut your losses when needed, how to balance types of kid by personality, ceiling, risk, dependability, readiness, etc.
  • Contingency plans: maintaining contact with kids we are still considering, etc.

This is a good list. One thing I want to see is foresight when it comes to trends. I like how Diaz has identified the transfer market in interviews. That is a new part of the game that can benefit us more than others.

I hope he is up to date on analytics and uses the abundance of data we have (through high school combines). There is enough information to compare past and present and identify traits that correlate with success.
 
This is a good list. One thing I want to see is foresight when it comes to trends. I like how Diaz has identified the transfer market in interviews. That is a new part of the game that can benefit us more than others.

I hope he is up to date on analytics and uses the abundance of data we have (through high school combines). There is enough information to compare past and present and identify traits that correlate with success.
You are touching on something that relates to where recruiting evals are going. Which kids have potential or risks that the human world doesn’t see right. Physical frame tells you more about development potential than coaches are trained to understand, e.g. Butch had an eye for some of this. Another area: reported 40 numbers are without context. Who else ran that day, under what conditions? How do their scores scale? It may not be rocket science, but data analytics will help coaches make better decisions.
 
Not even a month later and there's some ******* gold in here 😂😂😂

Manny tell these cats you ain't ******* around on the trail my G.
 
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Interesting to revisit this topic heading into Paradise camp and on the back of a few recent commits. Recruiting remains my biggest question on Manny 6 months in. Seems like Enos and the offense will recruit well. I’m still unsure whether defensive recruiting will keep pace.
 
There is a lot of talk about recruiting in connection with the staff changes. I myself have expressed concerns about Manny in this regard. Others have talked about whether someone is or isn’t a good recruiter based on their selling ability, or perceived evaluations. Given how important this topic is to the future of the program, I thought it was worth a thread - not on the recruiting board, but here, as a matter of team management.

First, recruiting is about both evaluations and selling. I have been yapping about evaluations on these boards since early in the Coker years. But evals and selling are outcomes. You don’t get there effectively without a detailed plan and disciplined process. That’s where I’d start.

From the HC and staff perspective, a good recruiting plan requires clear prioritization. What approach, what qualities/types of kids, how to approach local schools and kids and issues, where and how and when to assess kids, how much information is enough, where the bar is set by position and year, how to balance roster spots amongst positions, how to balance types of kid by personality, ceiling, risk, dependability, readiness, etc., how many offers to send out, and when, what spots in any given year you go out of area for earliest, how to divide recruiting responsibilities amongst staff members, how to support recruiting in this new social media era, how to make sure staff members are doing their jobs well as the year unfolds, how to collectovely assess so it’s not different coaches deciding differently based on position groups, how to balance settling vs. holding out for better prospects, how to handle communications with HS coaches and parents, how to move on from a kid while minimizing fall-out, how to maintain contact and have back up plans, how to create perception of momentum, and on and on. And importantly, how to pay enough attention (and who to listen to) so that you don’t have message board regulars better informed than our staff, which has clearly happened in many instances over the past many years.

All of these issues require thought, a process, and a Head Coach to monitor them. Importantly, most to all of that can be done by a good manager. It does not require a great salesman, though that obviously helps. And it does not require a Hc to be a great evaluator, though that clearly helps also. It requires only the right plan, and the right input into evaluations, a discipline to stick to the process and know what you want, and urgency at getting at it. The salesmen can be assistant coaches. And while the HC needs a view on evaluations, a good process can narrow the choices a lot and help generally improve selections.

This stuff sounds obvious, but our last three coaches did an absolutely awful job on this topic. Not only in their down years but even their supposed good years. Recruiting used to be a lot about knowing local high school coaches and picking amongst local kids. Those things still matter, but in this new era, it’s totally changed. There is so much more information on so many more kids. It’s ripe for a Money Ball type approach with data and dicipline to free up coaches to spend their time in the best ways possible, in recruiting and otherwise.

IMO Manny can get this right, if he recognizes the importance of recruiting and prioritizes and resources around it. But I have no idea if he will. His record as DC was not comforting as far as recruiting goes, but his approach so far as a HC gives me some optimism.

@LuCane


dhMeAzK.gif
 
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This is a good list. One thing I want to see is foresight when it comes to trends. I like how Diaz has identified the transfer market in interviews. That is a new part of the game that can benefit us more than others.

I hope he is up to date on analytics and uses the abundance of data we have (through high school combines). There is enough information to compare past and present and identify traits that correlate with success.
He's a genius at figuring out which guys run fast during practice. He's still processing the observation that tackling matters, however.
 
Just bumping for the next HC discussion to consider. The OP focused on recruiting but it's clear the whole program needs a process and culture reset.
It’s funny with recruiting today and i’m aware things have changed. But i Remember Butch saying it’s easy to get 25 kids to go to Miami the hard part is picking the right 25. You posted about 5 star recruits but right now the best D lineman in America was a 3 star kid from North Carolina. Miami was on him. Georgia signed him. We need an alpha coach who is a no nonsense dude. He needs to hire the right people and most importantly, needs to identity the talent.
 
It’s funny with recruiting today and i’m aware things have changed. But i Remember Butch saying it’s easy to get 25 kids to go to Miami the hard part is picking the right 25. You posted about 5 star recruits but right now the best D lineman in America was a 3 star kid from North Carolina. Miami was on him. Georgia signed him. We need an alpha coach who is a no nonsense dude. He needs to hire the right people and most importantly, needs to identity the talent.

It's always been about evals and always will be, imo. Not only for ability but culture and fit. As Manny's face plant illustrates.

Butch's point is something I've said about Saban for a long time. People think it's so easy to do what he does. Even putting aside that he built it to this point. Let's say he has his pick of everyone. His evaluations are really good! For talent, for commitment, for team fit. Like you say, when your pool is big, your choices matter a lot. And he's not letting 247 pick his kids for him based on rankings. That's what Coker would have done.
 
It's always been about evals and always will be, imo. Not only for ability but culture and fit. As Manny's face plant illustrates.

Butch's point is something I've said about Saban for a long time. People think it's so easy to do what he does. Even putting aside that he built it to this point. Let's say he has his pick of everyone. His evaluations are really good! For talent, for commitment, for team fit. Like you say, when your pool is big, your choices matter a lot. And he's not letting 247 pick his kids for him based on rankings. That's what Coker would have done.
I’m with Phillip Buchanan. I’m sick and tired of Lazy hires. When you look at it, the players wanted Coker and he turned out to be the worst thing that could have happened to the program. He took what was the top program to a state where it never recovered from. This next hire is key.
With respect to Evals. This is why i couldn’t care less about stars. I should have added how important player development is. You know this. Everyone does. And it’s not even about Saban. He selects the best of the best. Although i agree with what you said completely The next coach needs to find the 3 star kids that have potential. Realize Jaden Davis and Nick Bonitto should be here. Adjust your approach to what you have on the roster. etc
 
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