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Kalen Deboer

Bama will lose a minimum of two games this year (during the regular season) and their fans are going to lose their minds.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Uhhh...

He was .667 at Fresno State. And if I "discount his success at small programs", then that leaves him with TWO very admittedly fantastic years at Washington.

Can we schedule his crowning ceremony for, say, five years from now?

I once knew a guy who went 24-1 in HIS first two years at a Power 5 school...
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That guy wasn’t making in game adjustments like this new guy is. No offense but the new guy does more with less and now he has more.
 
DTP said:
He has won every where he’s coached so far. I didn’t say he won national championships at every school he’s been at. You can discount his success at small programs but isn’t that where most coaches get their start?
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He won a CFP game and the Pac12 -- At one point 1 big win and a Pac-12 title made a coach a god in these parts...
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
2024 - Ryan Williams and Rico Scott are good, but both are freshmen who just enrolled in May. Jameer Grimsley immediately transferred to Hogtown. Bubba Hampton is their only remaining 2024 WR signee with even SPRING practice experience, unless you count Caleb Odom, who may play TE. As you mentioned, Germie Bernard transferred to Alabama in January after being at Washington for 1 year and Michigan State before that.

2023 - Jalen Hale and Jaren Hamilton (a big nothing in 2023) and Cole Adams (another big nothing in 2023) have 1 year of experience each. Malik Benson split for F$U.

2022 - Emmanuel Henderson (a third big nothing in 2023) and Kendrick Law and Kobe Prentice have 2 years of experience. Aaron Anderson split for LSU, Shazz Preston went to Tulane, and this Tyler Harrell guy ended up at some place called Miami.

2021 - Every HS recruit at WR has transferred out. Ja'Corey Brooks to Louisville, Agiye Hall to UCF, JoJo Earle to TCU, Christian Leary to GaTech.

2020 - Every HS recruit at WR has transferred out. Thaiu Jones-Bell to Nowhere State, Traeshon Holden to Oregon, Javon Baker to UCF.

That means Alabama's top returning WRs are Kobe Prentice (18 catches in 2023), Kendrick Law (15 catches), and Jalen Hale (5 catches). Plus a transfer kid who spent a year at Washington with DeBoer.

OOF...

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I just want to caution my good friend on the sunken fallacy theory.

Odunze prior to DeBoer:
2020: 6 catches 72 yrds 0 TDs
2021: 41 catches 415 yrds 4 TDs

Odunze after DeBoer:
2022: 75 catches 1145 yrds 7 TDs
2023: 92 catches 1640 yrds 13 TDs

Polk prior to DeBoer
2020: 28 catches 264 yrds 3 TDs
2021: 5 catches 113 yrds 0 TDs*
*Injured

Polk after DeBoer
2022: 41 catches 694 yrds 6 TDs
2023: 69 catches 1159 yrds 9 TDs

McMillan prior to DeBoer:
2020: 1 catch 16 yrds
2021: 39 catches 470 yrds 3 TDs

McMillan after DeBoer:
2022: 79 catches 1098 yrds 9 TDs
2023: 45 catches 559 yrds 5 TDs*
*Injured

There’s a similar trend that happened at Fresno, as well. DeBoer took over during Covid, so yes he went 3-3 under that weird situation, but if u look at the returning production from the full season of 2019 & compare those WRs to their full season in 2021 (his last season at Fresno), u saw a jump in production.

I think it’s fair to assume that the guy’s offense is passer & WR friendly, so whatever happened last yr w/ the guys he’s inherited is literally moot. However, he’s still facing the toughest conference game after game, & these guys play defense unlike the PAC-12. I’m very high on Kalen, like extremely high on him, so it’ll be interesting to see how his style & personnel will match in a much tougher conference.

I’m w/ u, I wouldn’t crown him yet; BUT, if he has the success of what he did at Washington, I can promise u we would going from the agony of Saban to the agony of DeBoer & it might be worst b/c his offense is fun to watch.
 
Rellyrell said:
I just want to caution my good friend on the sunken fallacy theory.

Odunze prior to DeBoer:
2020: 6 catches 72 yrds 0 TDs
2021: 41 catches 415 yrds 4 TDs

Odunze after DeBoer:
2022: 75 catches 1145 yrds 7 TDs
2023: 92 catches 1640 yrds 13 TDs

Polk prior to DeBoer
2020: 28 catches 264 yrds 3 TDs
2021: 5 catches 113 yrds 0 TDs*
*Injured

Polk after DeBoer
2022: 41 catches 694 yrds 6 TDs
2023: 69 catches 1159 yrds 9 TDs

McMillan prior to DeBoer:
2020: 1 catch 16 yrds
2021: 39 catches 470 yrds 3 TDs

McMillan after DeBoer:
2022: 79 catches 1098 yrds 9 TDs
2023: 45 catches 559 yrds 5 TDs*
*Injured

There’s a similar trend that happened at Fresno, as well. DeBoer took over during Covid, so yes he went 3-3 under that weird situation, but if u look at the returning production from the full season of 2019 & compare those WRs to their full season in 2021 (his last season at Fresno), u saw a jump in production.

I think it’s fair to assume that the guy’s offense is passer & WR friendly, so whatever happened last yr w/ the guys he’s inherited is literally moot. However, he’s still facing the toughest conference game after game, & these guys play defense unlike the PAC-12. I’m very high on Kalen, like extremely high on him, so it’ll be interesting to see how his style & personnel will match in a much tougher conference.

I’m w/ u, I wouldn’t crown him yet; BUT, if he has the success of what he did at Washington, I can promise u we would going from the agony of Saban to the agony of DeBoer & it might be worst b/c his offense is fun to watch.
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To be fair Jimmy Lake was HC and John Donovan was OC in 20 and 21.

I still cannot fathom how fast and bad Lake ran that program into the ground.

From the last 2 Peterson classes he ran off guys like Puka Nacua, Laiatu Lata, and Ethan Garbers. Guys who ended up being high picks like Trent McDuffie, Kyler Gordon, Roger Rosegarten, McMillan, Odunze, Polk, Troy Fautanu, Cade Otton, and Bralen Trice all exploded after he was gone.
 
Defense is optional in the pac 12.

He has never faced what he is about to on defense.

I do liike him as a coach though... but the pac 1 W2 is group of fice level talent on defense and it doesny impress me what takes place out there defemsively
 
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gogeta4 said:
Defense is optional in the pac 12.

He has never faced what he is about to on defense.

I do liike him as a coach though... but the pac 1 W2 is group of fice level talent on defense and it doesny impress me what takes place out there defemsively
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Aren’t u a Kiffin guy?
 
Rellyrell said:
I just want to caution my good friend on the sunken fallacy theory.

Odunze prior to DeBoer:
2020: 6 catches 72 yrds 0 TDs
2021: 41 catches 415 yrds 4 TDs

Odunze after DeBoer:
2022: 75 catches 1145 yrds 7 TDs
2023: 92 catches 1640 yrds 13 TDs

Polk prior to DeBoer
2020: 28 catches 264 yrds 3 TDs
2021: 5 catches 113 yrds 0 TDs*
*Injured

Polk after DeBoer
2022: 41 catches 694 yrds 6 TDs
2023: 69 catches 1159 yrds 9 TDs

McMillan prior to DeBoer:
2020: 1 catch 16 yrds
2021: 39 catches 470 yrds 3 TDs

McMillan after DeBoer:
2022: 79 catches 1098 yrds 9 TDs
2023: 45 catches 559 yrds 5 TDs*
*Injured

There’s a similar trend that happened at Fresno, as well. DeBoer took over during Covid, so yes he went 3-3 under that weird situation, but if u look at the returning production from the full season of 2019 & compare those WRs to their full season in 2021 (his last season at Fresno), u saw a jump in production.

I think it’s fair to assume that the guy’s offense is passer & WR friendly, so whatever happened last yr w/ the guys he’s inherited is literally moot. However, he’s still facing the toughest conference game after game, & these guys play defense unlike the PAC-12. I’m very high on Kalen, like extremely high on him, so it’ll be interesting to see how his style & personnel will match in a much tougher conference.

I’m w/ u, I wouldn’t crown him yet; BUT, if he has the success of what he did at Washington, I can promise u we would going from the agony of Saban to the agony of DeBoer & it might be worst b/c his offense is fun to watch.
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OK, and I'm going to caution MY good friend to look inside the numbers.

ALL of those "2020 stats" involve exactly FOUR games, all played in Seattle between November 14 and December 5. COVID year.

There's also another very simple distinction.

Let's say we blame Jimmy Lake and his coaches for the lack of WR production in 2021, and suddenly Kalen DeBoer walks into the room and everyone becomes 100% better. OK, I'll play along.

Then...WHO ARE WE BLAMING ON THE ALABAMA STAFF FOR ALL OF THE TERRIBLE WR OUTPUT IN 2023?

My point is very simple. I don't know if Kalen DeBoer will succeed in Year 1 or not. However, I WILL say that if we project Jalen Milroe to have an amazing 2024 season because he is Jalen Milroe and Kalen DeBoer is Kalen DeBoer, I would say "let's pump the brakes". The WRs that Kalen DeBoer has inherited are not quite as productive as the ones that Slingblade Billy inherited from Mario's recruitment of SoFla WRs.

Maybe all those Alabama WRs will break out. Maybe some will. Maybe none will. But there is work to be done. It's a bit much to assume they will all get better at once.

This is why the games are played, and we don't just assume the outcome in the summertime. This will be a very fascinating story to watch.

And don't deny that a bunch of the Miami porsters have man-crushes on DeBoer. You know it's true.



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DTP said:
He has won every where he’s coached so far. I didn’t say he won national championships at every school he’s been at. You can discount his success at small programs but isn’t that where most coaches get their start?
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All I’m sure about is CiS will unnecessarily crown and **** all over him
 
gogeta4 said:
Defense is optional in the pac 12.

He has never faced what he is about to on defense.

I do liike him as a coach though... but the pac 1 W2 is group of fice level talent on defense and it doesny impress me what takes place out there defemsively
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This is the same issue Oregon could possibly run into. If Oregon runs through the B10 than it would truly prove that conference is overrated as I have always thought, but I don't think it will be that easy.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
OK, and I'm going to caution MY good friend to look inside the numbers.

ALL of those "2020 stats" involve exactly FOUR games, all played in Seattle between November 14 and December 5. COVID year.

There's also another very simple distinction.

Let's say we blame Jimmy Lake and his coaches for the lack of WR production in 2021, and suddenly Kalen DeBoer walks into the room and everyone becomes 100% better. OK, I'll play along.

Then...WHO ARE WE BLAMING ON THE ALABAMA STAFF FOR ALL OF THE TERRIBLE WR OUTPUT IN 2023?

My point is very simple. I don't know if Kalen DeBoer will succeed in Year 1 or not. However, I WILL say that if we project Jalen Milroe to have an amazing 2024 season because he is Jalen Milroe and Kalen DeBoer is Kalen DeBoer, I would say "let's pump the brakes". The WRs that Kalen DeBoer has inherited are not quite as productive as the ones that Slingblade Billy inherited from Mario's recruitment of SoFla WRs.

Maybe all those Alabama WRs will break out. Maybe some will. Maybe none will. But there is work to be done. It's a bit much to assume they will all get better at once.

This is why the games are played, and we don't just assume the outcome in the summertime. This will be a very fascinating story to watch.

And don't deny that a bunch of the Miami porsters have man-crushes on DeBoer. You know it's true.



View attachment 295643
Click to expand...

So are u ignoring 2021? Lol.

And let’s see; I’m pretty sure this board laughed hysterically when Saban hired Tommy Rees as his OC, did we not? So maybe, just maybe part of that lack of production u see is due to Saban hiring arguably the purest definition of a mid-OC.

And no, I don’t know that a bunch of Miami posters have a man crush on DeBoer; in fact, I was one of the few that was bullish on DeBoer being hired by Bama as many ?’d his resume and ability to recruit.

Furthermore, even if they did, why wouldn’t they? The guy took over a 4-8 program & took them to the CFPCG in 2 yrs, going 25-3 there. So if there’s posters who r impressed by his body of work, they have every right to.
 
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gogeta4 said:
Defense is optional in the pac 12.

He has never faced what he is about to on defense.

I do liike him as a coach though... but the pac 1 W2 is group of fice level talent on defense and it doesny impress me what takes place out there defemsively
Click to expand...
This board told me the PAC-12 had 8-10 first round pass rushers and the greatest defenses in CFB history re Cam Ward being sacked 500x in 2 years and running out of bounds on 4th down.
 
Rellyrell said:
So are u ignoring 2021? Lol.

And let’s see; I’m pretty sure this board laughed hysterically when Saban hired Tommy Rees as his OC, did we not? So maybe, just maybe part of that lack of production u see is due to Saban hiring arguably the purest definition of a mid-OC.

And no, I don’t know that a bunch of Miami posters have a man crush on DeBoer; in fact, I was one of the few that was bullish on DeBoer being hired by Bama as many ?’d his resume and ability to recruit.

Furthermore, even if they did, why wouldn’t they? The guy took over a 4-8 program & took them to the CFPCG in 2 yrs, going 25-3 there. So if there’s posters who r impressed by his body of work, they have every right to.
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I'm not "ignoring" 2021. Washington was up-and-down in 2021. It can happen when you've only played 4 games in 21 months.

The bottom line is that nobody can have it both ways. DeBoer is not a magician. If he calls more passing plays, fine, I can give him the credit. But if the top 2 WRs in 2022 were the same ones from 2021, then that means Jimmy Lake left him some talent.

2021 - Dylan Morris throws the ball 363 times and Odunze/McMillan have 80 catches combined
2022 - Michael Penix throws the ball 554 times and Odunze/McMillan have 164 catches combined

Seems reasonable for WR production, no matter who the coach is. Throw the ball more, you get more receptions.

If you are trying to argue that Prentice/Law (with their 33 combined catches in 2023, pre-DeBoer) are the inherited equivalent of Odunze/McMillan (80 combined catches pre-DeBoer)...then that's on you.

Now, by no means am I arguing that Jimmy Lake is da gawd. But he had two whole years at Washington. His first year was the COVID year, and he went 3-1 (and should have been in the Pac 12 championship game instead of some other team from Oregon). In his second year, he was fired when the team was 4-5 after he pushed one of his players.

So let's not pretend like 4-8 is some measure of the "badness" of Washington in 2021. Lake had been coaching at Washington since 2014, so he can at least be credited with building the defense for those 2022-2023 teams. Then, DeBoer's first recruiting class (2022) was not even Top 50 (10 HS recruits, 9 portal recruits, the key transfer being Penix). So while I'll give DeBoer credit for turning a bad situation into a much better team in 1 year, he did it with all of the talent that Jimmy Lake left for him, except for Penix.

And ultimately, all of that is not to "argue" specifics, it's to point out that perhaps DeBoer walked into a great situation in certain regards at Washington, and that maybe it's not as easy to say "Jalen Milroe" to justify why Alabama's WR corps is better RIGHT NOW than what they appear to be in their production thus far at Alabama.

Like I said, it's been TWO YEARS. And maybe those were two great years. Let's see how this thing plays out.
 
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