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Josh Gattis (before its deleted)

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wspcane said:
I was actually thinking this morning that if this part is true, it somewhat makes sense why Mario is waiting until after ESD to do anything with coaches. He created this catch 22 for himself, so it is absolutely not an excuse for the situation, but I could understand saying priority #1a is ESD, #1b is the portal, and then the staff. I don't know what to say or think anymore.
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problem with 1b is that portal kids (esp skill talent) wont come in droves without a real OC in here (not gattis) unless we just overpaying which im fine wiht as well
 
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RozayCane said:
Lol mannnn I open this site up everyday hoping for good news..

And everyday this MF’er still employed. 😂🤦🏾‍♂️
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Seems like it would of already happened by now. I don’t get why he would have him out recruiting if he was planning on firing him? That’s just being dishonest to the recruits. Maybe we’re going to keep Gattis as a Co-OC/WR coach and bring in a new Co-OC/QB Coach that calls plays?
 
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hoops156 said:
problem with 1b is that portal kids (esp skill talent) wont come in droves without a real OC in here (not gattis) unless we just overpaying which im fine wiht as well
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People keep saying it won't matter for them either (insiders). I don't understand how if you are transferring and this is presumably your last go at it you wouldn't want to know who is coaching you and what system you will be in.
 
Mackmiller974 said:
Seems like it would of already happened by now. I don’t get why he would have him out recruiting if he was planning on firing him? That’s just being dishonest to the recruits. Maybe we’re going to keep Gattis as a Co-OC/WR coach and bring in a new Co-OC/QB Coach that calls plays?
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If he weren't out there recruiting, it would be like saying, "Hey, I'm fired." so I get the man doing that part of his job until it's public.

And, as I've said before and it is unpopular - if Mario is convinced that Gattis will bring some of that 21' magic to the team next year, then whatever. let's see what he can do with a healthy OL. I think he should move on, but that's what he gets $8mm for.

However, if MC does this, he is in dangerous, "Al Golden" waters. And, not unlike General Tarkin when he side glances Vader in a New Hope, "I'm taking an awful risk, Vader/Gattis. This had better work!" If he keeps Gattis and it doesn't work two years in a row... ruh roh.
 
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wspcane said:
People keep saying it won't matter for them either (insiders). I don't understand how if you are transferring and this is presumably your last go at it you wouldn't want to know who is coaching you and what system you will be in.
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I can answer that, though by no means do I think the answer will satisfy the true mopes. I think you will understand it, even if it is only a "partial answer" (applies to some portal kids, but not all).

The answer is that very few schools can GUARANTEE that the coaching staff they have in the first week of December will be the same exact coaching staff they have by the next September.

The REALLY honest answer is that the revisions to the Portal calendar couldn't be much worse for the transfer kids ON THIS ISSUE ALONE. We all know that a vast amount of coaching turnover will occur in December and January (and maybe even February if Mario is the coach, ha ha, see I made a joke too). So even if a Portal kid makes a choice TODAY, there is no guarantee that his position coach or coordinator will still be there in a few months.

Does this suck? Sure. The Portal kids already lose out (for the most part) on the "visits" that a HS or JuCo kid can take. The decision-making window is constrained (IF IF IF they want to enroll for January and practice in the Spring, otherwise they can go during Portal Window #2). And now they might lose the coach they just bonded with because he gets a better offer next month?

So, like it or not, Mario's comments about "picking a school" or "picking a head coach" are fairly accurate. Any of these coaches could switch jobs whenever they want. Let's not forget (because people like to slam Mario for his slow hires), but TWO of the earliest Mario hires LAST YEAR were each gone within about a month (B-Mac and T-Rob).

I'm not saying this will be an equivalent consideration for every kid and every school. Sure, kids might be more confident in picking Alabama because they trust Saban to hire better replacement coaches than most. Agreed. But we cannot deny that there is a certain amount of "trust-me" going on, and very few guarantees. I mean, what happens if 6 good offensive players select F$U and then another school offers Alex Atkins a head coaching job next month? It could happen.

So while I agree with everyone that I TOO WOULD LOVE TO HAVE OUR COACHING SITUATION SORTED RAPIDLY, that doesn't mean that most of these Portal kids can make decisions based solely on position coaches and coordinators. OR, if they DO, they might get some bad news next month. Which, of course, is really pretty rotten, considering that one of the motivating factors for the transfer IN THE FIRST PLACE might have been poor-fit with a prior coaching staff.
 
filmcane said:
However, if MC does this, he is in dangerous, "Al Golden" waters. And, not unlike General Tarkin when he side glances Vader in a New Hope, "I'm taking an awful risk, Vader/Gattis. This had better work!" If he keeps Gattis and it doesn't work two years in a row... ruh roh.
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hoops156 said:
problem with 1b is that portal kids (esp skill talent) wont come in droves without a real OC in here (not gattis) unless we just overpaying which im fine wiht as well
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I just think Mario moves slowly and that’s who he is. As a gameday coach he struggles with clock management, probably because he’s not great at working on the fly.

Mario succeeds because he outworks everyone else and he never stops, he’ll just keep grinding and grinding until he succeeds by sheer effort. That’s why he’s a great recruiter and it’s also why he’s a great culture builder.

Balancing the good with the bad, there’s far more good with Mario. He will get us back to the top, I have no doubt, because hard work wins almost every time and his culture and recruiting will translate to wins. But in the meantime he is going to frustrate the **** out of us all, me right along with you, because he takes so **** long and deliberates on things that should be obvious like firing Gattis

Just my opinion
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I can answer that, though by no means do I think the answer will satisfy the true mopes. I think you will understand it, even if it is only a "partial answer" (applies to some portal kids, but not all).

The answer is that very few schools can GUARANTEE that the coaching staff they have in the first week of December will be the same exact coaching staff they have by the next September.

The REALLY honest answer is that the revisions to the Portal calendar couldn't be much worse for the transfer kids ON THIS ISSUE ALONE. We all know that a vast amount of coaching turnover will occur in December and January (and maybe even February if Mario is the coach, ha ha, see I made a joke too). So even if a Portal kid makes a choice TODAY, there is no guarantee that his position coach or coordinator will still be there in a few months.

Does this suck? Sure. The Portal kids already lose out (for the most part) on the "visits" that a HS or JuCo kid can take. The decision-making window is constrained (IF IF IF they want to enroll for January and practice in the Spring, otherwise they can go during Portal Window #2). And now they might lose the coach they just bonded with because he gets a better offer next month?

So, like it or not, Mario's comments about "picking a school" or "picking a head coach" are fairly accurate. Any of these coaches could switch jobs whenever they want. Let's not forget (because people like to slam Mario for his slow hires), but TWO of the earliest Mario hires LAST YEAR were each gone within about a month (B-Mac and T-Rob).

I'm not saying this will be an equivalent consideration for every kid and every school. Sure, kids might be more confident in picking Alabama because they trust Saban to hire better replacement coaches than most. Agreed. But we cannot deny that there is a certain amount of "trust-me" going on, and very few guarantees. I mean, what happens if 6 good offensive players select F$U and then another school offers Alex Atkins a head coaching job next month? It could happen.

So while I agree with everyone that I TOO WOULD LOVE TO HAVE OUR COACHING SITUATION SORTED RAPIDLY, that doesn't mean that most of these Portal kids can make decisions based solely on position coaches and coordinators. OR, if they DO, they might get some bad news next month. Which, of course, is really pretty rotten, considering that one of the motivating factors for the transfer IN THE FIRST PLACE might have been poor-fit with a prior coaching staff.
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All of that sounds right for most instances, but it’s going to be much harder to sell the “pick a school” or “pick a head coach” idea when the head coach failed so spectacularly in picking his offensive coordinator. In particular given Mario’s longer track record of not making the best OC hires. So it’s not just Gattis but the larger perception of Mario’s offenses. From my perspective, the firing/departure isn’t the key issue, but rather who the replacement is going to be and it seems like a big mistake for Mario to draw that process out like he did last year.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
I can answer that, though by no means do I think the answer will satisfy the true mopes. I think you will understand it, even if it is only a "partial answer" (applies to some portal kids, but not all).

The answer is that very few schools can GUARANTEE that the coaching staff they have in the first week of December will be the same exact coaching staff they have by the next September.

The REALLY honest answer is that the revisions to the Portal calendar couldn't be much worse for the transfer kids ON THIS ISSUE ALONE. We all know that a vast amount of coaching turnover will occur in December and January (and maybe even February if Mario is the coach, ha ha, see I made a joke too). So even if a Portal kid makes a choice TODAY, there is no guarantee that his position coach or coordinator will still be there in a few months.

Does this suck? Sure. The Portal kids already lose out (for the most part) on the "visits" that a HS or JuCo kid can take. The decision-making window is constrained (IF IF IF they want to enroll for January and practice in the Spring, otherwise they can go during Portal Window #2). And now they might lose the coach they just bonded with because he gets a better offer next month?

So, like it or not, Mario's comments about "picking a school" or "picking a head coach" are fairly accurate. Any of these coaches could switch jobs whenever they want. Let's not forget (because people like to slam Mario for his slow hires), but TWO of the earliest Mario hires LAST YEAR were each gone within about a month (B-Mac and T-Rob).

I'm not saying this will be an equivalent consideration for every kid and every school. Sure, kids might be more confident in picking Alabama because they trust Saban to hire better replacement coaches than most. Agreed. But we cannot deny that there is a certain amount of "trust-me" going on, and very few guarantees. I mean, what happens if 6 good offensive players select F$U and then another school offers Alex Atkins a head coaching job next month? It could happen.

So while I agree with everyone that I TOO WOULD LOVE TO HAVE OUR COACHING SITUATION SORTED RAPIDLY, that doesn't mean that most of these Portal kids can make decisions based solely on position coaches and coordinators. OR, if they DO, they might get some bad news next month. Which, of course, is really pretty rotten, considering that one of the motivating factors for the transfer IN THE FIRST PLACE might have been poor-fit with a prior coaching staff.
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So I think this is all fair, but zooming out on a more macro level, doesn't that put schools with a playcaller as a head coach at an advantage. Like if you are an offensive player in the portal and go to USC, you know the system you will be playing under so long as Lincoln Riley is there. Similarly if you are an OL, you can go to Miami with some level of confidence.

For the record, ordinarily and in most cases I do not think this would be an issue. Like if Gattis came in, we had a top 10 offense, and he left for a head coaching gig, this would not be as much of a concern, as the narrative would be different and there wouldn't be questions about the type of offense Mario wants to run or whether it would be successful. But those questions started well before his time here and this year was such a spectacular failure. And if you look at our recruiting, the positions most susceptible to those very valid concerns (WR and RB, specifically) are the two biggest question marks in our class.
 
CanesSkins26 said:
All of that sounds right for most instances, but it’s going to be much harder to sell the “pick a school” or “pick a head coach” idea when the head coach failed so spectacularly in picking his offensive coordinator. In particular given Mario’s longer track record of not making the best OC hires. So it’s not just Gattis but the larger perception of Mario’s offenses. From my perspective, the firing/departure isn’t the key issue, but rather who the replacement is going to be and it seems like a big mistake for Mario to draw that process out like he did last year.
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I don't deny this at all, these are relevant points.

I'll say this. A lot of porsters tend to conflate "takes a long time" and "hires bad fits" because of the one year we've gone through this with Mario.

But the two issues should be separated.

First, MARIO needs to come to a realization that "taking a long time" does not equate to "makes a great hire". He should address this with Alonzo and be very explicit in what he "needs" in a candidate. To be honest, I think that is what contributed to Mario's slowness last year (and possibly in his past hires as well). Any human being only has 24 hours in a day. If you put Mario in charge of EVERY ASPECT of hiring a staff, when you KNOW he wants to have 8-hour chalkboard interviews AND he wants to make sure that if he makes an offer, the guy will accept...then things are going to move at a glacial pace.

So Alonzo needs to be able to present Mario with 3 to 5 great resumes, and tell Mario "hey, I think your next OC is in this pile", and then let Mario go through his process. And Alonzo needs to have benchmarks and other timelines for getting Mario to a decision.

Second, there is the issue of "fit". And on this, Mario needs to be very clear. It is not just "fit" with him. Sure, maybe Gattis was willing to put in Mario-hours and do Mario-recruiting. But as some of the writers have spoken of, Miami simply DID NOT have an offensive identity last year. Other coaches (anonymously) said that Miami was just "running plays" and really didn't display any hallmark characteristics or identity. So Alonzo needs to help Mario to crystallize what it is that Miami is going to be. Maybe we want strength down the middle (OLs and TEs) and speed on the outside (WRs and RBs). But you can't muddle the process. You can't go "all power" in SoFla and expect to pull big lumbering guys like you see in the midwest. Figure it out, pick a lane, and that hammer on the accelerator. Picking a FIT for coordinators and position coaches brings a lot of dimensions into play...

---Hire coaches who will be a good fit for the TYPE of talent that you tend to recruit
---Hire coaches who FIT TOGETHER, not just putting Gattis and Ponce on the same staff because they each agree to work 22-hour days and send 100 recruiting texts each morning
---Figure out coaches who fit with schemes and systems (particularly since you practice as a team) and prepare the entire team for what they will see from their conference opponents - it was sad to have to play Garcia for nearly the entire Pitt game simply because Gattis prepped a game plan for TVD

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. I really hope that Radakovich employs Alonzo to address some of the areas where Mario was just overworked last year at this time when we were running on a skeleton staff.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
So Alonzo needs to be able to present Mario with 3 to 5 great resumes, and tell Mario "hey, I think your next OC is in this pile", and then let Mario go through his process. And Alonzo needs to have benchmarks and other timelines for getting Mario to a decision.
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This is EXACTLY how this process should be conducted. Otherwise, why did we hire Zo? We have enough figureheads around as it is and Zo has the skillset and resume to really help Mario go from being a great recruiter and decent coach, to a National Championship winning coach.
 
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wspcane said:
So I think this is all fair, but zooming out on a more macro level, doesn't that put schools with a playcaller as a head coach at an advantage. Like if you are an offensive player in the portal and go to USC, you know the system you will be playing under so long as Lincoln Riley is there. Similarly if you are an OL, you can go to Miami with some level of confidence.

For the record, ordinarily and in most cases I do not think this would be an issue. Like if Gattis came in, we had a top 10 offense, and he left for a head coaching gig, this would not be as much of a concern, as the narrative would be different and there wouldn't be questions about the type of offense Mario wants to run or whether it would be successful. But those questions started well before his time here and this year was such a spectacular failure. And if you look at our recruiting, the positions most susceptible to those very valid concerns (WR and RB, specifically) are the two biggest question marks in our class.
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I agree with your first paragraph, and I think that is true for the HS/JuCo recruits as well. HS/JuCo kids will be signing binding LOIs in a couple of weeks, and by January they might have different coaches.

On your second paragraph, I also agree, we really stepped in a pothole by coming out of the gates so slowly ON COACHES AND SCHEMES. If we had started the year with horrific talent or had 3 wins the prior year or were playing a brutal schedule...there would be a better expectation that Year 1 could suck. And I won't deny that we had some bad injuries. But when you are playing what (honestly) was one of our easiest schedules since we joined the ACC...and we have the "blue chip index" that we had...and when we had guys who played well last year in the face of adversity...

...then it becomes pretty easy to point the fingers at the coaches when it all goes SO BADLY. And when you do that in Year 1...people might get nervous about whether you can just plug-and-play a couple of new coaches and turn things around so quickly.

Understandable. I think Mario can do this. But he NEEDS to rely on Alonzo doing Alonzo things too. Mario has already shown us that drinking a gallon of Cuban coffee every day doesn't insure that all of his decisions are home runs.
 
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