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I Don't Know About This Fisch Dude

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WhatTheHell said:
The Dude said:
Miami, will never go to a spread offense. And in the world of of non-absolutes, this is the rare occasion. Miami is an NFL factory, why? Because our kids come out prepared to play in the NFL based off the schemes we run (NFL style scheme).

The BOT & President Know this and this is why we would never hire a coach that would implement a spread offense.

Having said that, the NFL and more specifically teams like the Partiots and Packers - to some extent the Saints, run a variation of the spread. However, all of them are based out of the pro-style with packages of 4 and 5 WR/TE. I think that you will see some of that this years as Steven will be more out of the shotgun and Ficsh's constant reference to the TE being a huge piece of the equation; similar to New England
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In all honesty, that's a very primitive way of thinking with the way the game has changed. Put aside the fact that we are no longer an NFL factory, and look at how many teams run the spread in college. It doesn't matter anymore. Cam Newton came from a spread and set the league on fire. RG3 came from a spread and went #2. The league has to adapt. And most importantly, it is Miami's job to win games, not serve as a farm league for the NFL. If a spread offense gives us the best opportunity to do so, I'd pursue that.

That's my preference, but hopefully this works. We need balance if we plan on running this type of offense and an o line that, unlike for the past 10 years, won't get thrown off the LOS every snap.
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^ This x 1,000
 
It's about Jimmy's and Joe's... not X's and O's.

That said, the spread limits what you can do, makes your players unprepared for the NFL, and is less effective against top defenses.

JimmyJohnsonsHair said:
WhatTheHell said:
The Dude said:
Miami, will never go to a spread offense. And in the world of of non-absolutes, this is the rare occasion. Miami is an NFL factory, why? Because our kids come out prepared to play in the NFL based off the schemes we run (NFL style scheme).

The BOT & President Know this and this is why we would never hire a coach that would implement a spread offense.

Having said that, the NFL and more specifically teams like the Partiots and Packers - to some extent the Saints, run a variation of the spread. However, all of them are based out of the pro-style with packages of 4 and 5 WR/TE. I think that you will see some of that this years as Steven will be more out of the shotgun and Ficsh's constant reference to the TE being a huge piece of the equation; similar to New England
Click to expand...

In all honesty, that's a very primitive way of thinking with the way the game has changed. Put aside the fact that we are no longer an NFL factory, and look at how many teams run the spread in college. It doesn't matter anymore. Cam Newton came from a spread and set the league on fire. RG3 came from a spread and went #2. The league has to adapt. And most importantly, it is Miami's job to win games, not serve as a farm league for the NFL. If a spread offense gives us the best opportunity to do so, I'd pursue that.

That's my preference, but hopefully this works. We need balance if we plan on running this type of offense and an o line that, unlike for the past 10 years, won't get thrown off the LOS every snap.
Click to expand...
^ This x 1,000
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mydas77 said:
I prefer a offense that consistently gets my best players against their worst players. I think you can do that from a pro style if you are creative.

Football is simple to me. Regardless of scheme, eventually you got block and beat the man across from u. Triple option, spread, pro,wing t, pistol...whatever.
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Agree. Good execution leads to mismatches and exploitation. Give the defense a lot to think about and prepare for. Make them spend too much time thinking and not enough time reacting.
 
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I just hope he doesn't throw any more games, (first half of KSU, VT, Maryland, Virginia, BC, etc where we did absolutely nothing against suspect defenses, like we had a late lead or something.)
 
My concern with Fisch is he simply didn't run it often enough. We were 94th in the nation in rushes per game despite never being in a game where we hopelessly trailed and were forced to throw every play. A warm weather pro style attack should be in the neighborhood of 36-42 rushes per game, not 33 average like last year. Three plays may seem insignificant until you chart variables and outcomes, with an understanding of the applied math. In college football the team with highest number of rushes wins 74% of the time. Every time you voluntarily stick yourself on the short end of that stat the more you require supreme talent at the skill positions to bail you out. Last season USC, Oklahoma State and West Virginia averaged fewer rushes than we did. Once we find a Barkley or Weeden I won't fret all the low rush attempt games as much as I do now but I don't think coaches make the distinction. For example, Joe Philbin is a huge candidate to trot out the Green Bay offense with the Dolphins, but minus Aaron Rodgers talent, and then wonder what the heck went wrong. David Garrard winging it 40 times per game didn't throttle the league? Fans love to belittle the triple option but those teams have high floors because they are always on the top end of the 74%.

As I mentioned in another post, college football teams these days are notoriously lazy in defending the short pass. The Big 12 as a whole has turned into a bubble screen farce, inflating the reputations of quarterbacks and skill position players in that league. Abuse the screens then when the safeties rotate upward it's a cheap shoulder pump and go. That's half the offense in the Big 12 nowadays. It's absolutely priceless when one of those Big 12 teams faces a top SEC pass defense and their jaws drop when the slip screens are battered and denied. Bradford literally had his mouth open several times when Florida blew up those plays in vital short yardage situations in the title game a few years ago. Saban was stomping and furious when Texas managed to wiggle free on a couple of bubble screens late in the second half of that title game. He salivated to destroy those plays.

Fisch demonstrates too much of a tendency to rely on the underneath junk. It's not foundational, IMO, not a style that concerns the premier teams. When (if) Golden rebuilds the program we want to be truly competitive with the powerhouses, not a glass jawed fraud. I'm not convinced USC isn't somewhat glass jawed right now, despite the hype. Not only did they resort to too many screens last year but the pass defense was horrible by national contender status, allowing more than 7 yards per attempt. The national champion invariably finishes in the Top 10 in the nation in yards per attempt allowed. Auburn with Newton was the only recent exception. Alabama and LSU were #1 and #2 in YPA defense last season.

Regarding high schools and the spread, there's nothing more sickening than attending one of those games in Dade County. Virtually every play rambles uncontested against terrorized defenses. You can sense that the kids have no clue it won't be that easy on the next level. Those games are flooded with silly penalties but it doesn't matter because 2nd and 15 is a simple conversion as long as you stay on your feet. One of Golden's challenges is to instill some midwestern blue collar toughness into kids who are accustomed to prancing touchdowns on every third play. I found some Nick Kotys era videos on YouTube recently and it's remarkable how those Gables teams resembled mini college programs.

Comparisons to the NFL are nonsense because college defenses are less thwarted by pass defense rules and application of them than NFL defenses in Roger Goodell's world. Steve Young says he can't imagine being an NFL safety these days. "What am I supposed to do?" Finesse teams like the Patriots and Packers thrive but in college the top spread teams always have to hope they avoid the legit rugged powerhouses. An Oregon needs a perfect draw.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
My concern with Fisch is he simply didn't run it often enough. We were 94th in the nation in rushes per game despite never being in a game where we hopelessly trailed and were forced to throw every play. A warm weather pro style attack should be in the neighborhood of 36-42 rushes per game, not 33 average like last year. Three plays may seem insignificant until you chart variables and outcomes, with an understanding of the applied math. In college football the team with highest number of rushes wins 74% of the time. Every time you voluntarily stick yourself on the short end of that stat the more you require supreme talent at the skill positions to bail you out. Last season USC, Oklahoma State and West Virginia averaged fewer rushes than we did. Once we find a Barkley or Weeden I won't fret all the low rush attempt games as much as I do now but I don't think coaches make the distinction. For example, Joe Philbin is a huge candidate to trot out the Green Bay offense with the Dolphins, but minus Aaron Rodgers talent, and then wonder what the heck went wrong. David Garrard winging it 40 times per game didn't throttle the league? Fans love to belittle the triple option but those teams have high floors because they are always on the top end of the 74%.

As I mentioned in another post, college football teams these days are notoriously lazy in defending the short pass. The Big 12 as a whole has turned into a bubble screen farce, inflating the reputations of quarterbacks and skill position players in that league. Abuse the screens then when the safeties rotate upward it's a cheap shoulder pump and go. That's half the offense in the Big 12 nowadays. It's absolutely priceless when one of those Big 12 teams faces a top SEC pass defense and their jaws drop when the slip screens are battered and denied. Bradford literally had his mouth open several times when Florida blew up those plays in vital short yardage situations in the title game a few years ago. Saban was stomping and furious when Texas managed to wiggle free on a couple of bubble screens late in the second half of that title game. He salivated to destroy those plays.

Fisch demonstrates too much of a tendency to rely on the underneath junk. It's not foundational, IMO, not a style that concerns the premier teams. When (if) Golden rebuilds the program we want to be truly competitive with the powerhouses, not a glass jawed fraud. I'm not convinced USC isn't somewhat glass jawed right now, despite the hype. Not only did they resort to too many screens last year but the pass defense was horrible by national contender status, allowing more than 7 yards per attempt. The national champion invariably finishes in the Top 10 in the nation in yards per attempt allowed. Auburn with Newton was the only recent exception. Alabama and LSU were #1 and #2 in YPA defense last season.

Regarding high schools and the spread, there's nothing more sickening than attending one of those games in Dade County. Virtually every play rambles uncontested against terrorized defenses. You can sense that the kids have no clue it won't be that easy on the next level. Those games are flooded with silly penalties but it doesn't matter because 2nd and 15 is a simple conversion as long as you stay on your feet. One of Golden's challenges is to instill some midwestern blue collar toughness into kids who are accustomed to prancing touchdowns on every third play. I found some Nick Kotys era videos on YouTube recently and it's remarkable how those Gables teams resembled mini college programs.

Comparisons to the NFL are nonsense because college defenses are less thwarted by pass defense rules and application of them than NFL defenses in Roger Goodell's world. Steve Young says he can't imagine being an NFL safety these days. "What am I supposed to do?" Finesse teams like the Patriots and Packers thrive but in college the top spread teams always have to hope they avoid the legit rugged powerhouses. An Oregon needs a perfect draw.
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I think our rushing attempts were a result of a putrid short-yardage running game. It got so bad, we were reduced to the quick-hitting passing plays on 3rd and 4th and short. In the Virginia game, we had to pass on two 4th & short situations, and when we tried to run it the third time, Mike James got stuffed 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Game over.

Once Lamar Miller's shoulder got worse and he stopped ripping off long runs to pad our rushing stats, the ground game went to ****. Mike James's turf toe didn't help matters.

I think Fisch wants to run the ball more, but we weren't equipped to do it last year.

Golden made a point of calling out our lack of strength in the trenches. I expect to see more of a concerted effort to pound the rock.


As for your comments about Fisch's tendency to rely on underneath stuff, again, I think that was dictated by personnel. He had a shell-shocked QB who struggled with deep digs, streaks, and corner routes. He also lost his security blanket (Hankerson). I'm interested to see what Fisch's offense looks like this year.
 
We were also dead last in the entire country in number of offensive plays run, because our defense was too busy bending over and spreading their cheeks through much of the season. Can't run the ball if you don't have possession of it.
 
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Chicken_N_Roffles said:
We were also dead last in the entire country in number of offensive plays run, because our defense was too busy bending over and spreading their cheeks through much of the season. Can't run the ball if you don't have possession of it.
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We were last in plays run despite having an average time of possession of 29:24 (70th in the country). Fisch said last year that we would be methodical, and he was true to his word. We took forever to run plays last year. That did protect the defense somewhat, by limiting the clock time available to our opponents. So, I'm agreeing that the D was liabiliy last year, but it could easily have been worse if we had run plays any quicker.
 
I think Fisch schemed to Jacory's week arm and bipolar playing abilities. You can only do as much offensively as your QB limits you. Hopefully Morris has grown in the system and has the ability to find the open guy and if no one is open get a few yards with his feet.
 
Getcaned, I think you are correct. It just wasn't Jedd's offense. Under Whipple JHarris had issues, too. Other than early 09, JHarris had problems completing intermediate passes because the passing lanes were congested with defender
 
Chicken_N_Roffles said:
We were also dead last in the entire country in number of offensive plays run, because our defense was too busy bending over and spreading their cheeks through much of the season. Can't run the ball if you don't have possession of it.
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+1

Nailed it! When the defense can't get off the field and isn't creating turnovers your offense doesn't run as many plays. Not really rocket science and Fisch isn't the problem. I saw some great games that were called by him last year. Can't wait to see what he's got when we're playing with a lead.
 
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i keep hearing about we don't have any play makers on offense. millers injury ate away at him slowly and kept him on the sidelines a lot last season. steeter only played one season. so really what did we lose? an interception machine? a player that was hurt(great potential wish him well with the phins), and a one year wonder that no one would have predicted. who's to say someone wont step up and fill in? we have plenty of players to fill in. will they be ready?? that is still to be seen but having a better work ethic and seeing your fellow teammates all busting their asses gives you more purpose and pride as a player.

Old school canes were all about pride, swagger(hate the word now), attitude. Getting *** wrecked by fsu at home isn't pride. getting *** rapped by UVA in the last game in the orange bowl wasn't pride. Those players didn't have the qualities being instilled in them by golden and company. Man can these 25 days take any longer to get here???
 
Come on, this offense can put up some points when you have the right quarterback. Guys like Ken Dorsey don't come around that often.
 
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We're going to know what Fisch is made of this year. The QB's been in the system 2 years and can make all the throws. The O-line should be more than decent, and the RBs and WRs are young but talented, so he should have his entire playbook available. Lets see how he opens up the O as the season goes along.
 
Championship Defense and a solid O-line can take you very far in a season. A QB in college doesn't have to win the game for you. The QB just can't lose the game.

I'll take an NFL Pro-style offense right now gladly. Miami has access to the type of talent to run it very effectively with the right HC. Fisch designed offenses for NFL franchises. You don't get much more mad scientist than that. He sat in rooms with legends and discussed offensive theory and then designed the playbooks. I'm sure he knows what to run in certain situations with the best of them.

I like what he has to say about our offense...

[video=youtube;7LlR41NGNzU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LlR41NGNzU[/video]
 
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Our OLine wasn't consistent in pass blocking worth a ****. Our OLine wasn't consistent in run blocking as each play, two or more linemen were taking the play off.

Jacory ran hot and cold, and while he had good overall stats, he could barely put together a drive behind a crappy, weak line, and seemed like every third pass downfield, it was either intercepted or dropped by the opposing team.

Our Tight Ends sucked.

Our RB's can't run through a 300 pound defensive lineman, which is what they were frequently asked to do.

Let's see. Line sucks, QB hot and cold, can't throw long, and isn't consistent. Tight ends sucked. WR's fair. RB's with either turf toe or injured shoulder, and STILL had to run where there were few cracks of daylight, much less a well-blocked running lane.

And to make it even sweeter, the cheerleader squad had more stamina and strength.

I shake my head with what we had to work with last year in disbelief.

I'm sure Fisch had his head-shaking moments too, but had to throttle everything back, shorten everything, simplify everything, and pray for a break now and then.

We didn't make great plays last year - the other teams made mistakes we took advantage of.
 
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